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Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions

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1 hour ago, Ed T. said:

I would assume that "no buildings with deep foundations" would mean that the junction would have to be redone. That would be a big mess, and just more reason for the connection to cost way more than any value it would deliver.

I actually misread what you wrote because the Sheppard-Sheppard West extension would only move beyond a nice to have project after the line is extended to Richmond Hill and thus a Southbound-to-Westbound connection would be needed. (I read it as a question of being feasible rather than feasible with the existing junction.)

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9 minutes ago, skyfirenet said:

I actually misread what you wrote because the Sheppard-Sheppard West extension would only move beyond a nice to have project after the line is extended to Richmond Hill and thus a Southbound-to-Westbound connection would be needed. (I read it as a question of being feasible rather than feasible with the existing junction.)

Hmm... the Line 4 extension to Sheppard West (then Downsview) was discussed a while back.

 

On 1/20/2018 at 4:21 PM, nfitz said:

TTC dropped the new 5-year corporate plan and Ridership Growth Strategy in the documents for next week's TTC meeting - http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2018/January_25/Agenda/Agenda.jsp

 

The highlight would be the new map showing the Toronto Transit Network Plan that council approved in 2016 - http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2016.EX13.3

Obviously some changes since then, such as Line 6 possibly heading to Pearson, Waterfront Transit probably stopping at Leslie instead of Woodbine, the Sheppard West portion of Line 4 that's in the current draft Regional Transportation Plan, along with an LRT heading up Don Mills from Sheppard (Line 9?).

 

We already knew about the Line 5, 6, and 7 colours, and that of the Relief Line (Line 3). But here is the pink Line 8 - Jane!

 

image.thumb.png.60c0a9e035dd93d3611be57d407d9782.png

23 hours ago, Ed T. said:

Well, at least the proposed network doesn't include everyone's favourite napkin-and-crayon lines, B-D to Sherway (or Dixie, or Oakville, or St. Thomas, or ....) and Sheppard to Sheppard West.

David Miller much? Transit City was close to a reality until Rob Ford killed it off. Then again, extension to Mississauga (i.e. Square One) would be a costly process. No wonder the 185, 195 and 198 existed since they are likely a precursor to those such lines.

Even Glenn De Baermaeker proposed an Eglinton-Danforth stop on the extension alongside the Lawrence East one.

When will the TTC ever extend a Relief Line to Pearson? :P 

 

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5 hours ago, BYD said:

When will the TTC ever extend a Relief Line to Pearson? :P 

 

I'd think Eglinton would be too far south. More likely that Line 2 would go there I'd think. But with Line 5 and 6 both going there, maybe unnecessary.

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10 hours ago, BYD said:

When will the TTC ever extend a Relief Line to Pearson? :P 

 

Remember this?

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/10/12/momentum-builds-for-new-pearson-airport-transit-hub.html

As it appears right now, the plan is ridiculously overexaggerated and unrealistic when it comes to infrastructure changes. Getting even the LRT there would be a challenge. Forget about a full-blown, high-capacity subway. It wouldn't be much faster than the UPX, anyways. I would love to see a Pearson transit hub, but not in its currently conceived state with new tracks needing to be built for GO commuter trains, essentially duplicating the UPX line.

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Go trains are not allowed near the airport. 

 

If the hub is to be built they would need to build some kind of people mover or moving sidewalk to the main line. 

Unless they change the rules, which would make it stupid to build the UP express line to the terminal. 

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22 hours ago, Ed T. said:

It's not that we even need it to be used on a regular basis. Whether the rationale is emergency deployment of trains from Wilson to the Yonge let, or as a helper to get them going in the morning.

The question is what the throughput of the existing junction would be for trains arriving from the west, and switching to the Yonge line. If you can only make five or six moves an hour, I would argue that its usefulness is too limited to contemplate this kind of use.

Upgrading the junction would not only make a huge mess of Sheppard and Yonge, it would also be expensive. I'm not a construction engineer, but "billion dollars" would be what I assume until it's demonstrated otherwise.

TL;DR: if the reason for a connection between Sheppard-Yonge and Sheppard West is to provide access for trains between WIlson yard and the Yonge line, the junction has to be able to have decent throughput, no matter how irregularly this may need to be done. Otherwise, add the cost of redoing the junction to the project.

Admittedly I don't know if the TTC has ever studied what could be done with the current trackage there versus what they would like to do given an infinitely large pot of money. I certainly don't know what the maximum throughput of the interchange is in its current configuration.

 

But you asked if it could work. And yes, it could be made to work with no additional costs.

 

11 hours ago, Shaun said:

Go trains are not allowed near the airport.

Says who?

 

Dan

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7 hours ago, smallspy said:

But you asked if it could work. And yes, it could be made to work with no additional costs.

 

As the original design anticipated a westward extension to Downsview, I would think that the design for the existing track already took this into account.

 

Otherwise, I would have not built a curve west of Yonge, not west, and cut down on the length of the tracks west of Yonge which extend all the way to the station box for Senlac station.

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44 minutes ago, nfitz said:

As the original design anticipated a westward extension to Downsview, I would think that the design for the existing track already took this into account.

 

Otherwise, I would have not built a curve west of Yonge, not west, and cut down on the length of the tracks west of Yonge which extend all the way to the station box for Senlac station.

Or they just built the west curve to minimize disruptions on the Yonge line.

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Is the TTC finished with the signage updates for all the buses or are they still working on it? I ask cause I saw 1222 on 199B still showing it's going to York U

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3 hours ago, jordankcw said:

Is the TTC finished with the signage updates for all the buses or are they still working on it? I ask cause I saw 1222 on 199B still showing it's going to York U

Finished long ago. 1222 must have been passed over

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2 hours ago, dayone said:

Are there west-end routes like 53A that take buses to rural areas?

No. 53A/F is only bus that goes to a rural area. Everywhere in the city is developed except Rouge Park.

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On 1/23/2018 at 9:13 AM, smallspy said:

Admittedly I don't know if the TTC has ever studied what could be done with the current trackage there versus what they would like to do given an infinitely large pot of money. I certainly don't know what the maximum throughput of the interchange is in its current configuration.

But you asked if it could work. And yes, it could be made to work with no additional costs.

Going on the west wye track to SB Yonge mainline, the throughput is decent. It would be more than enough to deadhead trains and put them in position on the southbound mainline.

Now, going northbound towards Finch is a bit of a different story, as a train would have to clear the crossover south of Sheppard, then proceed back north through the crossover onto the NB mainline. That stop then proceed back into the interlocking eats heavily into the throughput.

 

On 1/23/2018 at 4:51 PM, nfitz said:

As the original design anticipated a westward extension to Downsview, I would think that the design for the existing track already took this into account.

It does.

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31 minutes ago, Archer said:

Now, going northbound towards Finch is a bit of a different story, as a train would have to clear the crossover south of Sheppard, then proceed back north through the crossover onto the NB mainline. That stop then proceed back into the interlocking eats heavily into the throughput.

The better option would be Southbound to York Mills Center Track, then back North to Finch. It would still allow for Southboud throughput while the soon to be Northboud train shuts down and changes ends.

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10 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

No. 53A/F is only bus that goes to a rural area. Everywhere in the city is developed except Rouge Park.

Well, the bus passes through a rural area on its way to an otherwise-isolated residential neighbourhood. Remember that the 116 Morningside, 133 Neilson, and (during peak hours) 199 Finch Rocket routes all connect with the 53A/F near its terminal point so it is not surprising that it is highly patronized to the extent that artics have been deployed.

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18 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

No. 53A/F is only bus that goes to a rural area. Everywhere in the city is developed except Rouge Park.

Generalizing much?

I'd argue there are plenty of other places served by the TTC that by many people's definition is "rural". There's no way you can not argue the stretch of Meadowvale Road heading into the Zoo is not rural. The stretch of Steeles Avenue West between Islington and Kipling is quite "rural" and undeveloped. Every time I've been to Martin Grove and Steeles, that intersection (and the loop to the west) has always felt very middle-of-nowhere. And until recently, there was a good stretch of Vanderhoof Avenue (served by route 88) that was very isolated. One can also argue for the stretch of Eglinton Avenue East around Leslie to be included. Once one opens their eyes and actually starts thinking about it, there are plenty of natural and undeveloped areas left in the city.

8 hours ago, Transit geek said:

Well, the bus passes through a rural area on its way to an otherwise-isolated residential neighbourhood. Remember that the 116 Morningside, 133 Neilson, and (during peak hours) 199 Finch Rocket routes all connect with the 53A/F near its terminal point so it is not surprising that it is highly patronized to the extent that artics have been deployed.

The artics on 53F are more for the crowds on the western portion of the route... not the ones boarding at the extreme east end...

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19 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

No. 53A/F is only bus that goes to a rural area. Everywhere in the city is developed except Rouge Park.

Don't forget that TTC used to have the 107F bus which went to Kirby Rd north of Teston Rd which was rural before it was eliminated in 2013.

 

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Also there are the buses that go as far as Major Mackenzie Drive East in Markham, specifically the 102D Markham Rd, 129A McCowan North, 68B Warden (and before June 2016, routes 24D/224D on Victoria Park/Woodbine).

On another note I noticed the URL of this map on the TTC's website: https://ttc.ca/PDF/Maps/TTC_SystemMap.pdf hasn't been updated to reflect the fact that it's not current. From another POV, this version: https://www.ttc.ca/PDF/Maps/TTC_SystemMap_2017-12.pdf should be listed under the original URL as above and the link to the old map should reflect the date it was last updated - specifically June 2017. As it is right now the situation is misleading.

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1 hour ago, TTC T6H-5307N 2252 said:

Don't forget that TTC used to have the 107F bus which went to Kirby Rd north of Teston Rd which was rural before it was eliminated in 2013.

 

1 hour ago, Transit geek said:

Also there are the buses that go as far as Major Mackenzie Drive East in Markham, specifically the 102D Markham Rd, 129A McCowan North, 68B Warden (and before June 2016, routes 24D/224D on Victoria Park/Woodbine).

On another note I noticed the URL of this map on the TTC's website: https://ttc.ca/PDF/Maps/TTC_SystemMap.pdf hasn't been updated to reflect the fact that it's not current. From another POV, this version: https://www.ttc.ca/PDF/Maps/TTC_SystemMap_2017-12.pdf should be listed under the original URL as above and the link to the old map should reflect the date it was last updated - specifically June 2017. As it is right now the situation is misleading.

The original post specifically mentioned in Toronto - which is why I purposefully excluded areas of Markham and Vaughan that have(/had) TTC service.

Historical comparisons are useless - if you go back far enough, everything was undeveloped.

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12 hours ago, Articulated said:

I'd argue there are plenty of other places served by the TTC that by many people's definition is "rural". There's no way you can not argue the stretch of Meadowvale Road heading into the Zoo is not rural. The stretch of Steeles Avenue West between Islington and Kipling is quite "rural" and undeveloped.

"Rural" to me implies quiet countryside. Busy four-lane roads going through river valleys (which will by definition remain undeveloped) is not exactly rural. That leaves out the stretches of Steeles West and Meadowvale.

Maybe if you squint hard, the very end of Rathburn Rd is kinda rural. That's where the 2 Anglesey 48 Rathburn loops. I can't think of anything else particularly rural in the west end, not since the NW corner got all warehoused up.

Beare Road, Sewells Road, Plug Hat Road are all pretty rural. But no TTC service.

Now, if you want to go back to the days of the Metropolitan Division.... :lol:

 

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Does anyone have any idea what buses #1 - #4 are/were? The only one that was in service out of these buses was #3 and #1 is no longer trackable. #2 - #4 are still trackable.

Screenshot_2018-01-05-15-22-00.png

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On 1/26/2018 at 3:07 AM, eja2k said:

The better option would be Southbound to York Mills Center Track, then back North to Finch. It would still allow for Southboud throughput while the soon to be Northboud train shuts down and changes ends.

Only if there was revenue service running. Outside of that period, it wouldn't make a difference (ie. if every train was going S->N), as you'll still have that same bottleneck as you would turning back from the X14.

Plus, you have to remember that the TR's are absolute pigs going up the hill from York Mills to Sheppard and that'll bite into time.

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3 hours ago, Archer said:

Plus, you have to remember that the TR's are absolute pigs going up the hill from York Mills to Sheppard and that'll bite into time.

I would have preferred that when the TTC was building the Sheppard extension of the Yonge Line some years back that they had stuck to their original plan of elevating the tracks on a viaduct at York Mills to reduce noise instead of spending the extra money to bury the line in steeply graded bored tunnels through that stretch.

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12 hours ago, 8930 said:

Does anyone have any idea what buses #1 - #4 are/were? The only one that was in service out of these buses was #3 and #1 is no longer trackable. #2 - #4 are still trackable.

Screenshot_2018-01-05-15-22-00.png

I think its just an error. I don't the its real number, but 4 is a new Nova, as I saw it on the 506 a while ago. I'd assume the others are new Novas as well.

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