Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions

[Downsview 108]

Interesting, thanks for the info.

[pc8556]

I didn't even put 2 and 2 together on that ... The older signs out of Davenport division had a 7D St Clair-Exhibition exposure, amongst many others (Davenport had 7-7F, Wilson had 7,7G). Why do I have a feeling there was a 7H exposure at one point?

"H" and "J" were all pre-1966 exposures

Starting in 1956 when the Bathurst route was numbered

7 "St Clair-Sheppard" July 1,1954

7A " St Clair- Dufferin (later Caledonia via Glencairn Nov 2,1964)

7B St Clair-Lawrence July 1, 1954

7C St Clair-Melrose Nov 29,1954

7D St Clair-Wilson Nov 29,1954

7E St Clair-York Downs (later Almore) Feb 21,1955

7F St Clair-Wilson (EXRESS) later Sheppard Feb 18,1957

7G "St Clair-Wilmington" EXPRESS Feb 2,1959

7H "St Clair-Wilmington" Feb 2,1959

"I" was never used on any exposures as it could be confused with the number '1'

7J "St Clair-Finch" Aug 2,1960

7J "St Clair-Drewry"Oct 16, 1961

7J "St Clair-Steeles" Aug 21,1964

post 1966

7 became "Steeles"

7A Caledonia via Glencairn

7B "Lawrence"

7C became "Sheppard" looping via Canyon

7D was the night service Feb 26,1966

7E "Wilmington-Bathurst Stn" May 11,1968

7F "Steeles-Exhibition" (The extension of the "D" service Nov 22,1980

7G "Arnold" (Nov 24,1980) then "Highway 7B" (1982) extensions

change January 28,1978

7 Steeles-Wilson Stn

7A Steeles-ST Clair West Stn

7B Wilson Stn-Bathurst Stn

7C Steeles-BAthurst Stn (Aug 15,1978)

7E Wilson Stn-St Clair West Stn (Aug 15,1978)

until Sept 2,1990 when new 160 route took over north of Steeles service

[smallspy]

It's been there as long as the line and the crossover has been open.

And of course, after writing that I got to thinking that it might have actually been built with open diamonds, with the movable points installed at a later date.

There are a couple of sites that show the building of the University Subway and while I haven't found definitive as yet I'm going to keep searching.

Dan

[Mike]

7A " St Clair- Dufferin (later Caledonia via Glencairn Nov 2,1964)

7E "Wilmington-Bathurst Stn" May 11,1968

7F "Steeles-Exhibition" (The extension of the "D" service Nov 22,1980

Are you sure about this one? Every map I have mentions only 7D and when Blue Night was established the 310 also went only from Exhibition to St. Clair (310 was only extended to Steeles in Feb 1996). 7E was replaced on Mar 30 1974 by branch of 84 Sheppard bus. 7A was replaced by 14A in 1967?

change January 28,1978

7 Steeles-Wilson Stn

7A Steeles-ST Clair West Stn

7B Wilson Stn-Bathurst Stn

7C Steeles-BAthurst Stn (Aug 15,1978)

7E Wilson Stn-St Clair West Stn (Aug 15,1978)

until Sept 2,1990 when new 160 route took over north of Steeles service

When was 7B cancelled? It looks like on maps sometime between 02.1979 and 01.1981 branch out of Wilson Station gets changed from 7B to Bathurst Station to 7E to St. Clair and 7A got replaced by 7C. In 1990, 160 took over the 7 branch as well, so only 7C and 7E remained.

[Archer]

It's been there as long as the line and the crossover has been open. There also was one at the east end of Union at the double-crossover there, but as far as I can find it was removed shortly after the line was extended to St. George.

Dan

Actually, I recall reading somewhere that the double cross-over at Union was moved to St. George, but I'm not sure when that may have happened or where I read that.

[rollsign29]

Actually, I recall reading somewhere that the double cross-over at Union was moved to St. George, but I'm not sure when that may have happened or where I read that.

I've seen a b/w photo somewhere of the crossover at Union (with everything looking very new) and there was no moving-point frog/diamond.

[pc8556]

Are you sure about this one? Every map I have mentions only 7D and when Blue Night was established the 310 also went only from Exhibition to St. Clair (310 was only extended to Steeles in Feb 1996).

Hi Mike, 100% for sure. I have a rare photo of NewLook 7544 (that unfortunately I do not have permission to share) of the 7F and no, this branch NEVER made it onto any map(public map that is)

My photo shows the bus southbound approaching Bathurst Stn and is in service.

You can view the 7F rollsign at Rollsign Gallery-(Davenport). I think the bus ran overnight, but like a Sunday overnight on Saturday also - It did not totally replace the 7D either

7E was replaced on Mar 30 1974 by branch of 84 Sheppard bus. 7A was replaced by 14A in 1967?

yes to 7E and 14A started 1966 Feb 26 in the on-going switch around serving Glencairn

When was 7B cancelled? It looks like on maps sometime between 02.1979 and 01.1981 branch out of Wilson Station gets changed from 7B to Bathurst Station to 7E to St. Clair and 7A got replaced by 7C.

7B, well for that matter the whole BATHURST route (like you said 7E,A,C) was all changed on August 15,1979 and these changes appeared on the September 20,1979 map and the changes are outlined in the

August 1979 Headlights

In 1990, 160 took over the 7 branch as well, so only 7C and 7E remained. Yes

[Mike]

It also looks like 7C went through several iterations. First it looks like 7C looped on the north west side of Bathurst/Sheppard intersection (Feb 1966?) and there was another branch that did the Overbrook loop (7E?). Then in April 1966 7C was extended to a loop at Wilson Heights. At this time 7C was full service and 7E limited service. Then it looks like in 1968 7E became full service and 7C disappeared. 7C is back on the maps in Mar 30 1974 when 7E became a branch of 84 and gone again when Wilson Station opened.

[Bentley]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/transportation/article/1240435--ttc-contracts-out-intercity-coach-terminal I'm sure this has been mulled over before, but in retrospect was it a good idea for the TTC to divest itself or Gray Coach lines? Did it ever run at a profit? would it be sold off today?

[shambala]

http://www.thestar.c...-coach-terminal I'm sure this has been mulled over before, but in retrospect was it a good idea for the TTC to divest itself or Gray Coach lines? Did it ever run at a profit? would it be sold off today?

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. This has been debated before and everyone has their own opinion. Personally, I would have preferred they not have sold either entity, having said that, in today's climate, even having produced a profit still might not be enough to maintain and hold on to these assets due to long term corporate and political reasons. Question is/was, should TTC be in the coach business or concentrate on it's core mandate(obviously that's already been decided long ago) and/or is it any better off without them?

[pc8556]

It also looks like 7C went through several iterations. First it looks like 7C looped on the north west side of Bathurst/Sheppard intersection (Feb 1966?) and there was another branch that did the Overbrook loop (7E?). Then in April 1966 7C was extended to a loop at Wilson Heights. At this time 7C was full service and 7E limited service. Then it looks like in 1968 7E became full service and 7C disappeared. 7C is back on the maps in Mar 30 1974 when 7E became a branch of 84 and gone again when Wilson Station opened.

not as confusing here because, as usual, the TTC map's are sloppy and do not pay attention to any level of detail

Starting Feb 26/66 the 7C "Sheppard" branch ran west on Sheppard to loop at Wilson Hts, while 7E "Wilmington (starting Monday Feb 28) ran RH only extending up to Overbrook

So "7C" Sheppard ran Mon-Fri 930am-330pm then 730pm-930pm and all-day Saturday until 930pm and Sundays from 1100am-730pm with the 7E providing weekday RH service

The 7C "Sheppard" was basically a short-turn of the 7E "Wilmington" so when the 7E started full service there was no need for the 7C

yes, beginning Mar 30/74 a new 7C short-turned at Sheppard looping east on Shep, north on Canyon and west on Viewpoint to Bathurst and this branch obviously was not required when the new subway opened in Jan 78

as an aside, when the original 7G & 7H "Wilmington" started (1959) there were pages of articles in the Star about how residents were really upset that a bus was going to run thru their neighbourhood. The women made a human chain across

Overbrook and Wilson Hts to protest when the first bus showed up. (Shows you how busy Wilson Hts was back then) I guess nothing changes as people scream for service and then bitch when it happens right on their street.

(thinking extension proposed in my neighbourhood-beach having the 143 extend east on Queen, north on Courcelette and east on Kingston Rd to Midland looping around the gas station on the SW corner. People on Courcelette who have been bitching for service for decades did not want a bus going down their street so early in the AM, so they complained to Brian Ashton and he stopped the extension permanently.

[D. DeLarge]

Actually, I recall reading somewhere that the double cross-over at Union was moved to St. George, but I'm not sure when that may have happened or where I read that.

I've heard mention of that as well.

I've seen a b/w photo somewhere of the crossover at Union (with everything looking very new) and there was no moving-point frog/diamond.

What, this?

[BBC 9197]

as an aside, when the original 7G & 7H "Wilmington" started (1959) there were pages of articles in the Star about how residents were really upset that a bus was going to run thru their neighbourhood. The women made a human chain across

Overbrook and Wilson Hts to protest when the first bus showed up. (Shows you how busy Wilson Hts was back then) I guess nothing changes as people scream for service and then bitch when it happens right on their street.

(thinking extension proposed in my neighbourhood-beach having the 143 extend east on Queen, north on Courcelette and east on Kingston Rd to Midland looping around the gas station on the SW corner. People on Courcelette who have been bitching for service for decades did not want a bus going down their street so early in the AM, so they complained to Brian Ashton and he stopped the extension permanently.

I think it should be against the law to prevent city buses from running on any city street or highway, obviously there would be little to no reason for buses to run on the vast majority of streets but residents should not be able to request the buses removal.

This is a city, if you don't like buses on your street then move to a deadend street or leave the city!

[rollsign29]

What, this?

That's the one.

[glenview]

Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:24 AM

pc8556, on 10 August 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

7A " St Clair- Dufferin (later Caledonia via Glencairn Nov 2,1964)

7E "Wilmington-Bathurst Stn" May 11,1968

7F "Steeles-Exhibition" (The extension of the "D" service Nov 22,1980

Are you sure about this one? Every map I have mentions only 7D and when Blue Night was established the 310 also went only from Exhibition to St. Clair (310 was only extended to Steeles in Feb 1996).

The 7F was a correct branch of the BATHURST BUS route in the pre-Blue Night days, but it had a very limited schedule.

This service operated on Sunday morning roughly between 6AM and 9AM.

It was also used for two trips each night, to run the overnight buses down from Steeles all the way to the Exhibition. But in practice I'm sure the Operator put up the 7D sign at Steeles, and didn't change it for the remainder of the shift.

[pc8556]

Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:24 AM pc8556, on 10 August 2012 - 10:41 PM, said: 7A " St Clair- Dufferin (later Caledonia via Glencairn Nov 2,1964) 7E "Wilmington-Bathurst Stn" May 11,1968 7F "Steeles-Exhibition" (The extension of the "D" service Nov 22,1980 The 7F was a correct branch of the BATHURST BUS route in the pre-Blue Night days, but it had a very limited schedule. This service operated on Sunday morning roughly between 6AM and 9AM. It was also used for two trips each night, to run the overnight buses down from Steeles all the way to the Exhibition. But in practice I'm sure the Operator put up the 7D sign at Steeles, and didn't change it for the remainder of the shift.

I have seen a B&W photo of the 7F exposure, in service, travelling SB on Bathurst just north of the subway so a few operators did indeed use the exposure (early morning shot)

I have a question for you.

Through research (and assumptions) I thought the 7F started Nov 1980 however, the collector/photographer that shot this bus was from the USA and by all accounts he only came up to Canada in the 60's and early 70's.

Is it possible that this bus (7F) began service earlier then 1980? Perhaps even before the Jan 78 period?

Even at the the Archives there is very limited info on this bus branch. and I do not have access to the TTC Microfiche library route history notes which would certainly clear this mystery up.

It is not even mentioned in the archive TTC Orders & Notices

Do you happen to know when this branch began sir????

thanks

[Ed T.]

These days 7000-series Orion Vs are frequently meeting 9400-series Vs at Spadina and Queens Quay. (edit: plenty of 7000s on Harbourfront shuttle; plenty of 9400s on Spadina shuttle)

I'm wondering how often this is happening in regular service. How often to 9400s make it to Finch station? How often to 7000s and 9400s make it to York Mills? Those are the two places I can think of where a meetup may even happen.

[Neoupa2002]

These days 7000-series Orion Vs are frequently meeting 9400-series Vs at Spadina and Queens Quay.

I'm wondering how often this is happening in regular service. How often to 9400s make it to Finch station? How often to 7000s and 9400s make it to York Mills? Those are the two places I can think of where a meetup may even happen.

Once in a blue moon, a 9400 will make it onto the 42 or the 125 (and even rarer the 97) and the two series' will meet up at Finch.

[vivablue5215]

How often to 7000s and 9400s make it to York Mills? Those are the two places I can think of where a meetup may even happen.

Well, if Malvern sends a 7000 and Wilson sends a 9400 on the 95...

[Guest]

These days 7000-series Orion Vs are frequently meeting 9400-series Vs at Spadina and Queens Quay. (edit: plenty of 7000s on Harbourfront shuttle; plenty of 9400s on Spadina shuttle) I'm wondering how often this is happening in regular service. How often to 9400s make it to Finch station? How often to 7000s and 9400s make it to York Mills? Those are the two places I can think of where a meetup may even happen.

Finch is not that rare, theirs usually one during holidays covering the 42, 7000s are not that rare to see at York Mills, they show up once in a while and 9400s at York Mills is kind of rare, but that's just from my experiences seeing them.

[FlyerD901]

102 Markham Rd will be going to Malvern next board period

[soo8513]

Q: For YUS service on Sep 8 with Union to St. Andrew closed would TTC stage trains Friday night somewhere between Finch and Union? - would Davisville have enough room for 20 - 25 trains?

[Robert Lubinski]

Q: For YUS service on Sep 8 with Union to St. Andrew closed would TTC stage trains Friday night somewhere between Finch and Union? - would Davisville have enough room for 20 - 25 trains?

I think Davisville dispatches 10 trains in the AM on weekdays and four are stored at Finch so that would provide 14 trains if you used Davisville for 10. Davisville could probably hold another 2-3 in the yard with all the work cars sitting in the yard so that would probably be enough if you needed 16 trains. You could also park two on the southbound mainline,one at the platform, and another one right behind it. If they actually need more trains to come from Wilson and the crews are only working on the Yonge-bound side, they could run trains down the centre track south of St. Andrew, through the University bound platform and then over the crossover to northbound on Yonge.

What's the total service midday on Saturday on the YUS? 29-30 trains? Say you put 18 on the Yonge side. There might be enough for Yonge line service using Finch and Davisville if you pack them in.

All speculation of course, unless you feel like being an early bird that day and going to Davisville to see how many trains are actually stored there...

[smallspy]

I think Davisville dispatches 10 trains in the AM on weekdays and four are stored at Finch so that would provide 14 trains if you used Davisville for 10. Davisville could probably hold another 2-3 in the yard with all the work cars sitting in the yard so that would probably be enough if you needed 16 trains. You could also park two on the southbound mainline,one at the platform, and another one right behind it. If they actually need more trains to come from Wilson and the crews are only working on the Yonge-bound side, they could run trains down the centre track south of St. Andrew, through the University bound platform and then over the crossover to northbound on Yonge.

What's the total service midday on Saturday on the YUS? 29-30 trains? Say you put 18 on the Yonge side. There might be enough for Yonge line service using Finch and Davisville if you pack them in.

All speculation of course, unless you feel like being an early bird that day and going to Davisville to see how many trains are actually stored there...

In past situations, or on nights where a snowstorm is expected, they store additional trains in the tunnels and spare tracks throughout the system, and shuttle the train crews out in the morning. I would suspect that they would do the same again here.

Dan

[wil9402]

I was up at Bombay Loop (top end of 61 and 142) this afternoon and found this :