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Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions


Orion V
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I don't get what you are trying to say. Eliminate the need for separate "Transit Signal" yet what you are showing is a separate transit signal.

I think s/he's referring to the Sign indicating a transit signal ... not the signals themselves ...

Either way, i don't think these sorts of changes are something Toronto could do alone ... i think the Province would have to green light it (pun intended) as it would likely require changes to the HTA

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I don't get what you are trying to say. Eliminate the need for separate "Transit Signal" yet what you are showing is a separate transit signal.

My point is that you wouldn't need the sign, if the actual transit signal looked different from a traffic light. In other words, the current style of transit signal the TTC uses, with lenses in the image I provided, minus the "Transit Signal" sign.

Many times, I have witnessed moron motorists in Toronto thinking the transit signal is meant for them (despite the sign), and proceed on the green transit signal, while they actually had a red light. This seems to happen very frequently westbound on Finch, at the south end of Finch Station.

I'm promoting transit-only signals, that cannot be confused by motorists, regardless of how well they understand English. Besides, the signals I showed are in wide use in many countries, and we already have a variation of it in various places across the GTA (the white vertical bar signal). Why deviate from something that is commonly used and understood by many (including foreigners).

At the very least, I think instead of writing Transit on the sign, we should use a pictogram of a streetcar or bus, with the word signal below. This could be accomplished at a relatively low cost using stickers.

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My point is that you wouldn't need the sign, if the actual transit signal looked different from a traffic light. In other words, the current style of transit signal the TTC uses, with lenses in the image I provided, minus the "Transit Signal" sign.

Many times, I have witnessed moron motorists in Toronto thinking the transit signal is meant for them (despite the sign), and proceed on the green transit signal, while they actually had a red light. This seems to happen very frequently westbound on Finch, at the south end of Finch Station.

I'm promoting transit-only signals, that cannot be confused by motorists, regardless of how well they understand English. Besides, the signals I showed are in wide use in many countries, and we already have a variation of it in various places across the GTA (the white vertical bar signal). Why deviate from something that is commonly used and understood by many (including foreigners).

At the very least, I think instead of writing Transit on the sign, we should use a pictogram of a streetcar or bus, with the word signal below. This could be accomplished at a relatively low cost using stickers.

I agree, they should try to eliminate the metal signs that explain what the traffic light is for. These signs can be very hard to see at night because the light from the traffic signal blows out the metal sign rendering it useless.

For protected left (or right) turn signals all lenses should depict the direction arrow, not just the green. This would easily and cheaply solve this problem and make our roads a safer place, I can't figure out why something that seems so obvious to me hasn't been tried by the city or the MTO.

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Sadly sue to the stupidity of (or those that just don't care and have realized that they can do whatever they want 'cause they always get away with it) many drivers would still make illegal turns on transit signals regardless of the amount of signs. Thus far in my observations the all black transit signals seem to reduce the amount of drivers that just don't pay attention enough (which as a driver they should be paying attention) from making mistakes. However even if the city did use signals like the ones you show I guarantee they'd still use the "Transit Signal" signs.

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Observing the traffic along the Harbourfront, one quickly learns to spot out-of-towners or simple idiots when cars try to make left hand turns on the streetcar signal. On the other side there are people who think that it's a left turn signal who tie up the lane waiting for it to turn green. Inevitably you have people behind them honking for them to turn. The odd time you'll get someone go around the stopped car in front of them to make the left turn in time.

When a streetcar is waiting for the light as a car the streetcar will advance while blaring its horn. The car driver, confused winds up going straight through the intersection since its turn is blocked by the streetcar. I'm surprised there aren't more accidents along the route! One source of confusion along the Harbourfront is that there is a left turn signal at most lights, so people expect one to come up during the cycle. However it's only used during the morning rush hour. Perhaps they should be used all day like they are along Spadina.

That white bar would be the easiest solution. It's only a single light that primarily only streetcar drivers would understand. Otherwise, do something different with the Transit Signal lights like orienting them sideways as in Alberta, making them square instead of circle or change the colours (does the HTA allow for say, a blue light?). In my travels, I have seen places where the lenses are replaced by a streetcar/tram image in red, yellow and green.

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However even if the city did use signals like the ones you show I guarantee they'd still use the "Transit Signal" signs.

I still wish they'd use a pictogram of a streetcar or bus instead of writing "Transit" on the metal "Transit Signal" sign. Transit isn't a commonly used word outside of North America when referring to public transit (public transport is more common). Transit instead can refer to a person being in transit between flights, or a package being in transit. Besides, we already use a pictogram of a bus or streetcar on metal signs for diamond lanes, instead of the sign saying "Transit Lane".

That white bar would be the easiest solution. It's only a single light that primarily only streetcar drivers would understand. Otherwise, do something different with the Transit Signal lights like orienting them sideways as in Alberta, making them square instead of circle or change the colours (does the HTA allow for say, a blue light?). In my travels, I have seen places where the lenses are replaced by a streetcar/tram image in red, yellow and green.

These are all very good ideas. Expanding the use of the white bar, by replacing the green lens on the current transit signals would be the easiest solution (and might possibly be pretty effective too). And perhaps using a white arrow where protected left/right turns exist.

But for future LRT lines (e.g. Eglinton), the most effective solution might be having railroad signals, even on above ground sections of the ROW at intersections. The ones GO is installing along its corridors look completely different from standard traffic lights, and would go a long way in eliminating any confusion.

All these solutions would still require major changes to the HTA (except the white bar signal already in use), but should still be examined by the MTO.

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I still wish they'd use a pictogram of a streetcar or bus instead of writing "Transit" on the metal "Transit Signal" sign. Transit isn't a commonly used word outside of North America when referring to public transit (public transport is more common). Transit instead can refer to a person being in transit between flights, or a package being in transit. Besides, we already use a pictogram of a bus or streetcar on metal signs for diamond lanes, instead of the sign saying "Transit Lane".

These are all very good ideas. Expanding the use of the white bar, by replacing the green lens on the current transit signals would be the easiest solution (and might possibly be pretty effective too). And perhaps using a white arrow where protected left/right turns exist.

But for future LRT lines (e.g. Eglinton), the most effective solution might be having railroad signals, even on above ground sections of the ROW at intersections. The ones GO is installing along its corridors look completely different from standard traffic lights, and would go a long way in eliminating any confusion.

All these solutions would still require major changes to the HTA (except the white bar signal already in use), but should still be examined by the MTO.

White bar is the solution to go. With LEDs you should only need one lens and light up the respective segments to say the direction. This eliminates any confusion with cars because clearly they have no use for a white bar. This would be up to the MTO though to certify, as the only current practice is the vertical white bar above the normal traffic light.

As for replacing the green lens with a white bar, I believe the TTC did that with one of their signals recently (IIRC might've been the one on Lake Shore exiting Humber Loop?) and the MTO required them to switch it back to the normal green light, even though it was a transit-only signal.

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It was a small spur off the CN tracks wasn't it, leading to an old business? I don't think it's related to the TTC or the streetcar network.

Yeah, that's what I recall. I haven't been able to find if it was any particular industry though, but the large Massey Harris manufacturing complex wasn't too far from that spot, along with a few others in the immediate area. Could have been CN or CP.

It was not yet present in 1910, according to Goad's Fire Insurance maps.

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TTC union station had a small flood again today. I didn't go on the GO side, so I don't know if they also had issues or not.

I passed through Union Station today during the heavy downpour... there was a fair amount of standing water in the area next to the moat but I would hardly call it a "flood" considering the concourse and track levels were dry and service was unaffected.

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I passed through Union Station today during the heavy downpour... there was a fair amount of standing water in the area next to the moat but I would hardly call it a "flood" considering the concourse and track levels were dry and service was unaffected.

When I was there, there was a few inches of water on the main floor, and 1 of the 2 staircases were closed and water was pouring down (but not like that major flood). And there was water on the platform too. I saw two supervisors with machines sucking up the water

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Trying to get my head around the latest TTC Service Alert that's on the website, and got e-mailed to me:

72 Pape service diverting westbound via Front, Wellington, Simcoe, Bathurst, Fort York due to a parade on The Esplanade at Princess.

Last updated 1:24 PM

How does 72 get to Bathurst/Fort York?

And because of a Parade a mile away? What parade ... there's nothing going on at Esplanade/Princess (and if there was, wouldn't it also mess up the Parliament bus?). Bizarre ...

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Increasingly bizarre. An hour later they've added a detour for the Sherbourne bus:

75 Sherbourne buses diverting via Princess, Front, Wellington, Simcoe, Front, Bathurst due to a parade on The Esplanade at Princess.

What!?!

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Something about a Native Indian protest or some non-sense

The 'nonsense' you refer to was First Nations and a small ceremony/ parade to remember natives contributions to the British side in the war of 1812....celebrating history and paying respects to people who helped build this great nation is hardly 'nonsense'. I find your comment to be offensive and extremely ignorant.

http://www.timescolo...2597/story.html

Please read the article in the link, you obviously need a history lesson.

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The 'nonsense' you refer to was First Nations and a small ceremony/ parade to remember natives contributions to the British side in the war of 1812....celebrating history and paying respects to people who helped build this great nation is hardly 'nonsense'. I find your comment to be offensive and extremely ignorant.

http://www.timescolo...2597/story.html

Please read the article in the link, you obviously need a history lesson.

That articles seems to be about a ceremony that happened west of downtown, west of Bathurst Street. There were no reports of TTC detours or closures downtown, or west of downtown. The area that was effected, according to the TTC, was east of downtown at Esplanade and Princess - impacting the Pape, Parliament, and Sherbourne buses. Which seems complete hogwash, because from the moment I got the first e-mail, to an hour later when it was all lifted, I could see the intersection in question out my window, and there was nothing going on.

Seems ironic that your accusing others of being ignorant

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That articles seems to be about a ceremony that happened west of downtown, west of Bathurst Street. There were no reports of TTC detours or closures downtown, or west of downtown. The area that was effected, according to the TTC, was east of downtown at Esplanade and Princess - impacting the Pape, Parliament, and Sherbourne buses. Which seems complete hogwash, because from the moment I got the first e-mail, to an hour later when it was all lifted, I could see the intersection in question out my window, and there was nothing going on.

Seems ironic that your accusing others of being ignorant

Here's the report from Transit Toronto on the events necessitating the road closures:

Transit Toronto: First Nations ceremony and procession means detours for TTC buses July 16

They're a little more descriptive of the TTC detours here than with the e-mail the TTC sent out. The First Nations National Assembly is also taking place at the Convention Centre, which was probably time to coincide with the 1812 commemoration.

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How utterly bizarre. Why would you detour Sherbourne buses all the way to Fort York? Or Pape for that matter. And why are the buses being detoured to follow the parade route, rather than simply avoiding it?

It (the TTC detour) never happened BTW. I got the e-mail around 1:40 pm, and then I made sure I was watching out the window next to me, that overlooks Princess/Esplanade and David Crombie Park. I did see a booth set up in the park, with a half-dozen people mililng around. But no parade, no procession. No stopped traffic. If there was a procession, it stuck to the sidewalk ... or was so small, that it didn't intefere with traffic. Maybe it got busier as it headed west; but it only has to go a few blocks, and it would no longer interfere with the buses it was allegedly interfering with. The daily parade of pre-schoolers tied together is much more evident.

And as I also pulled up the bus data for 72 (and later 65, and 75) (e.g. http://whereismystreetcar.appspot.com/#INB_2lk5o,-4q44c,r1,1of|RTE_72|STP_1210 ) I could see where the buses actually were. And they kept operating their usual route.

Seems odd, that it was causing so much change to services at the start of the route, but it didn't intefere with either the replacement Spadina buses or the Bathurst streetcars.

It's a shame there wasn't more info about this. Had I know what was up, I'd have at least walked a couple of blocks to Front/Jarvis to watch. Though from what I could see, there wasn't really much to watch.

Whole thing doesn't look well organized by either the TTC, or the events sponsors.

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