Jump to content

Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions


Orion V

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, smallspy said:

I suspect that you might be entertained by some of the methods and techniques that some agencies are using to decontaminate their vehicles. I've seen photos of what could be best described as patio lanterns strung up inside a subway car, equipped with what are likely UV bulbs. Kim Mitchell would be proud.

New York experimented with something similar permanently installed on the R11 cars but scrapped the idea because passengers being exposed while they were on didn't work out very well.  Doing that with an unoccupied car is fine and lets you crank the UV way up which is probably what they're doing with the lantern string.  Given how much of modern vehicle interiors is plastic, it'll be interesting to see how well that stands up to UV exposure since that does deteriorate plastic over time.

2 hours ago, smallspy said:

On some older vehicles, it wasn't easy to access the housings containing the lights - thus, they would get filled with airborne particulate matter and allow less light to pass through. (In some cases, it may just be that they stopped doing that kind of cleaning as the vehicles got closer to their demise.) Thus, when newer vehicles entered service, without the benefit of having years of accumulated grime to shield the photons, seem to be considerably brighter inside.

It was never all that hard to get at the lights on the old vehicles.  They were deliberately made reasonably accessible so that burned out bulbs could be replaced easily which was a normal part of business.  The problem was that the accumulated grime wouldn't be cleaned out until the next time the car went through a full interior wash.  If you caught a train with mixed cars where one unit had been through a full interior was recently and the others hadn't, the difference was night and day in terms of how much cleaner and brighter the recently cleaned ones were compared to the others that had months of accumulated brake dust grime.

2 hours ago, smallspy said:

Newer materials, again without having been affected by age, may be more reflective and thus reflect more light as well.

 

Another likely factor is that - well, they are actually brighter inside. The current trend for public areas is to be brighter, as it is frequently felt that brighter = safer. (Whether it actually is remains up for debate, but sometimes it's better to err on the side of perception than anything.)

They are measurably brighter inside.  I did some somewhat scientific measurements with a Sekonic light meter in a Toronto Rocket, a T1 and an H5, meter sitting face up on the floor in the middle of each car while in a tunnel to avoid any meaningful influence from oustide light and it nudged up each time, but the biggest jump was T1->Toronto Rocket.

Safety is a concern up to a point, beyond that brighter is just brighter.  There are marketing aspects to it as well.  One of the unfortunate side effects of really efficient LED lighting is that the operating costs are low even in places where electricity is expensive, which means there's no second thought anymore about what turning it up to eyeball searing, light polluting levels is going to do to the utility bill as a disincentive the way it used to be.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

New York experimented with something similar permanently installed on the R11 cars but scrapped the idea because passengers being exposed while they were on didn't work out very well.  Doing that with an unoccupied car is fine and lets you crank the UV way up which is probably what they're doing with the lantern string.  Given how much of modern vehicle interiors is plastic, it'll be interesting to see how well that stands up to UV exposure since that does deteriorate plastic over time.

Not just plastic, though. The resin used in most fibreglass is also quite UV sensitive. So are most paints.

 

20 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

It was never all that hard to get at the lights on the old vehicles.  They were deliberately made reasonably accessible so that burned out bulbs could be replaced easily which was a normal part of business.  The problem was that the accumulated grime wouldn't be cleaned out until the next time the car went through a full interior wash.  If you caught a train with mixed cars where one unit had been through a full interior was recently and the others hadn't, the difference was night and day in terms of how much cleaner and brighter the recently cleaned ones were compared to the others that had months of accumulated brake dust grime.

It's not that it was hard - it really wasn't, in the grand scheme of things - but rather that it wasn't as easy or convenient as later or more modern vehicles.

 

Take a PCC for instance. Or a G car, even, as they used the same Mitchell fixtures. Yes, each light bulb and thus the interior of each globe was accessible via one screw. But there were what, 30 globes in each car? That's a tedious job to clean out for just one car.

 

The H cars used two screws per housing (with another two screws to retain the backing to access the wiring), and at 8 feet long with nothing but flat surfaces inside, they were pretty quickly and easily cleaned out.

 

20 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

They are measurably brighter inside.  I did some somewhat scientific measurements with a Sekonic light meter in a Toronto Rocket, a T1 and an H5, meter sitting face up on the floor in the middle of each car while in a tunnel to avoid any meaningful influence from oustide light and it nudged up each time, but the biggest jump was T1->Toronto Rocket.

I don't doubt it. But did you prep all of the surfaces to be identical? Brake dust, with its relatively high carbon content, is great for blocking light.

 

20 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

Safety is a concern up to a point, beyond that brighter is just brighter.  There are marketing aspects to it as well.  One of the unfortunate side effects of really efficient LED lighting is that the operating costs are low even in places where electricity is expensive, which means there's no second thought anymore about what turning it up to eyeball searing, light polluting levels is going to do to the utility bill as a disincentive the way it used to be.

I don't disagree with you. But that's the perception - brighter = safer, even up to a ridiculous point.

 

Dan

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, smallspy said:

Take a PCC for instance. Or a G car, even, as they used the same Mitchell fixtures.

39A47AF1-E0AF-453E-9732-4EF5C41437D7.thumb.jpeg.057b7c042dd9f4afefdcaad51b848ec0.jpeg

The light fixtures in the Gloucesters and PCCs were completely different.

I put one of each on the workbench there and it’s plainly obvious that they are not the same at all.  The Gloucester fixture is British through and through like the rest of the car having been made by J. Stone & Company (Deptford) Ltd. in England.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

39A47AF1-E0AF-453E-9732-4EF5C41437D7.thumb.jpeg.057b7c042dd9f4afefdcaad51b848ec0.jpeg

The light fixtures in the Gloucesters and PCCs were completely different.

I put one of each on the workbench there and it’s plainly obvious that they are not the same at all.  The Gloucester fixture is British through and through like the rest of the car having been made by J. Stone & Company (Deptford) Ltd. in England.

Hmmm. I'm going to chalk that one up to a faulty memory.

 

Dan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
20 hours ago, AnalogPentium said:

Finally spotted one of the new supervisor cars today and to be honest

20210206_165414.thumb.jpg.bd92c3924b6164e5b566bda860d538a6.jpgimage.thumb.png.c5f04d4a203236ec15c9c2eadd31d828.png

Interesting - Ottawa had Police Interceptor Utilities as supervisor vehicles but is now lifecycling them out. They're switching to Silverado 1500s as they use the push bars to move stuck buses and the PIUs weren't holding up. Maybe TTC will be gentler with theirs, and it's great that they went with the hybrids.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There certainly are savings when you can move more uses onto the same vehicle. The PIU comes with the hybrid powertrain as "standard", but it isn't the only option - there's a non-hybrid version with the same engine, and a more powerful non-hybrid engine with a turbo. I can't imagine that there aren't upfront cost savings by forgoing the hybrid, but it's perfect for a vehicle that will spend much of its life idling.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good f'ing riddance....maybe. These Presto readers are just horrendous to use.

Anyways the way I'm interpreting this report is that they're getting prepared to potentially replace Presto by 2027, so I don't think the TTC is saying they will definitively drop Metrolinx. Given that the TTC and Metrolinx aren't exactly the greatest buddies with Presto though, I wouldn't be shocked if they ended up finding a new fare system. If the new readers they're supposed to get don't pan out, I surely hope the TTC actually does replace Presto.

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2021/February_10/Reports/5_PRESTO_Fare_Policy_and_Collection_Strategy_Update.pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a bargaining chip to make sure they don't get screwed like the other GTA agencies, having no other option. 

If the province wants TTC to pay a lot more money for Presto, then it does give TTC the option of going their own direction., and not having to pay an huge overhead for a complex integrated card that TTC doesn't really need.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TTC wanted open payment in 2008 and still haven't gotten it after 13 years. The report says Metrolinx has pushed it to 2023. It seems that Metrolinx has no ability to implement it but threating TTC to stick with them. I highly doubt TTC can just drop Presto. Queen's Park will legislate something to keep there TTC on hook or attempt another takeover. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, nfitz said:

It's a bargaining chip to make sure they don't get screwed like the other GTA agencies, having no other option. 

If the province wants TTC to pay a lot more money for Presto, then it does give TTC the option of going their own direction., and not having to pay an huge overhead for a complex integrated card that TTC doesn't really need.

 

19 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

TTC wanted open payment in 2008 and still haven't gotten it after 13 years. The report says Metrolinx has pushed it to 2023. It seems that Metrolinx has no ability to implement it but threating TTC to stick with them. I highly doubt TTC can just drop Presto. Queen's Park will legislate something to keep there TTC on hook or attempt another takeover. 

I've often wondered where the break even point is.  If the cost of "alternate fare collection" + the price of provincial economic blackmail is less than PRESTO then there's no financial reason for the TTC to stay although there are probably other practical considerations.  I'm sure Metrolinx has done some calculations on where that break even point for the TTC sits so they know how far they can push before walking becomes a financially viable decision for the TTC and keep them right where they want them, bleeding to the max but not enough to jump.

The government of Ontario's done economic blackmail to the TTC for a long time.  It's something they've gotten very good at.  Wanna buy a totally unproven, unfit for purpose, outrageously expensive proprietary transit solution for Scarborough?  You know you want to.  You don't?  Yes you do.  See those fat government cheques over there?  Shame if they go through that paper shredder by accident.  Overhead wire's so 1880s.  You don't want that.  You couldn't want new trolleycoaches that use that ugly mess in the sky, could you?  Don't you know the clean bus of the 1990s runs on natural gas?  That's what you want.  And you're going to buy it from Ontario Bus Industries.  Right?  Right?  You think about your bus purchase while we think about those operating and capital subsidies and let us know what you decide and then we'll let you know what we decide.  You're thinking about ditching tickets and tokens and implementing a fare card?  We're so happy to schedule the press conference saying you picked PRESTO.  You haven't picked PRESTO yet?  Yes you have.  No?  No's what might happen to your share of the provincial gas tax money.  You did pick PRESTO.  That's excellent.  Welcome aboard.  Glad we didn't have to find someone else to spend that gas tax money on.  Smile for the cameras at the press conference and pretend that nobody's holding your arm behind your back and twisting it until it's about to break.  Let's make a deal.  We'll dictate the terms.  You agree to them.  Just sign on the line and everything'll be fine.  Or we'll make it economically painful for you, kind of like being beaten up and having your wallet stolen while you're waiting for the subway at night.  You wouldn't want that right?

And so it goes...

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Tunnelrat said:

What's the best app for Android to see buses on a map in real time? The ones I have downloaded only show bus stops with arrival times not the actual buses. 

It's not fancy, but on Android, if I really want to see where they heck things are, I use the https://totransit.ca/ website - as it only maps what's reporting on a certain route, with no concern about what they are doing.

Hint ... if 506s are missing, it's not impossible to find them signed in as 306s in broad daylight. Normally I just leave all the 500 streetcar routes and 304, 306, 301,310 on at all times ... occasionally I see some odd situation when a 501 is up at Main Station, giving me a quick trip to Queen and Parliament!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, nfitz said:

It's not fancy, but on Android, if I really want to see where they heck things are, I use the https://totransit.ca/ website - as it only maps what's reporting on a certain route, with no concern about what they are doing.

Hint ... if 506s are missing, it's n impossible to find them signed in as 306s in broad daylight. Normally I just leave all the 500 streetcar routes and 304, 306, 301,310 on at all times ... occasionally I see some odd situation when a 501 is up at Main Station, giving me a quick trip to Queen and Parliament!

Thanks that's exactly what I was looking for. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wanted to ask if replacing the batteries on the hybrids with Lythium accomplish resolving the problems that the TTC was experiencing with them? 

Were the issues with the electronics fixed during the rebuild process?

I guess that with newer Hybrids being so reliable and efficient it doesn't make sense to keep the NG's running. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, TTC Guy said:

Does anyone know where I can find information about what routes have what runs at certain times.

Info is available here. May be difficult to parse, though, as this is raw data meant to feed into next vehicle prediction programs.

 

https://ckan0.cf.opendata.inter.prod-toronto.ca/fa_IR/dataset/ttc-routes-and-schedules/resource/c1264e07-3c27-490f-9362-42c1c8f03708

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is wracking my brain right now! There is a handful of pics on the inter web of the TTC New Flyer ‘TUF’ demonstrator (early version of the D40LF), but I can’t seem to find them. Does anyone know where I can find these hard to find gems?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Speaking of documents that are hard to find, I seem to recall that there was a report/article/anecdote/something posted that said that the Nova hybrids were failing to meet reliability expectations. Does anyone know if this was actually a thing that was posted on here and where I might find it, if true? The usual search hasn't turned up anything but I might not be searching in the right threads or with the right keywords 

EDIT: I might've dreamt the whole thing. I've been browsing through the CEO's reports from December 2019 and onward and there seems to be nothing in there particularly damning about the Novas. The December 2019 report indicates they are performing above reliability targets and in January this year the MDBF for the hybrid fleet was 30k km while for diesel buses it was 20k. The reports from the past year repeatedly state "Nova LFS Hybrid buses equipped with the BAE Hybrid drive system are performing well above the expected reliability with respect to the hybrid powertrain system."

That's good to see, I find these to be handsome machines and I am glad to see them doing well.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...