Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions

[Ed T.]

17 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

Slightly off topic, just curious but for those that are in High School, if the school year is canceled for the year does this mean you need to repeat the year over again or will you get credit and either graduate or go on to the next year?

It will vary by province. There's no such thing as a single answer.

In any case, this information is clearly up, at, e.g., https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2020/03/ontario-extends-school-and-child-care-closures-to-fight-spread-of-covid-19.html

It's kind of pointless to ask off-topic questions, where the answers are avaiiable straight from the source. I mean, it's obvious that this question has been asked by lots of students and parents. You'd think the answers would be up for everyone to see, right?

12 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Eventually yes but might not be in the next year or two. A lot of small business will close down leading to lost of employment and lower ridership for a while. If the economy doesn't pick up in a year, those poor layoff folks wouldn't get back to work anytime soon

On the flip side, people may not be able to afford that second car, or that tricked-out pickup. If the real estate market takes a tumble, the the financial impact on those who leveraged their property ownership and ran up debt could make for some wide-spread effects. Of course no one knows what will happen for the rest of 2020 and beyond. We can all hope, I guess.

[Someguy3071]

2 hours ago, TheAverageJoe said:

Not so fast on retail. If anything this will help people push to online shopping, retail was struggling with physical stores already. 

And how is that online  shopping delivery working out right now? I ordered 3 items on Amazon two weeks ago. Two of them haven't even shipped yet and are expected to come mid May. With these delays in delivery people will be going to physical stores to buy things as soon as they can. 

[MK78]

The school closures were just extended to May 31st.

[Ultimate]

2 hours ago, MK78 said:

The school closures were just extended to May 31st.

And that relates to TTC how?

[MK78]

25 minutes ago, Ultimate said:

And that relates to TTC how?

It was just mentioned a few posts above, regarding ridership drop because of school closures.

[9924]

7 hours ago, TheAverageJoe said:

Not so fast on retail. If anything this will help people push to online shopping, retail was struggling with physical stores already. 

People have been forced into online shopping, they want a choice even if it just means going out to browse.  Retail will pick up.

[Streety McCarface]

On 4/25/2020 at 12:49 PM, Xtrazsteve said:

More concerning is any chances of a co op job this summer

It'd be for the Fall, but we're all extremely worried about the economy and how it will affect our degrees. 

[Wayside Observer]

20 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

Eventually, why wouldn't it?

Yes, that’s true, but it’s too early to know how long that eventual return could take.  The ridership lost in that brutal recession in the early 90s didn’t come back for 10 years or so, and service on the surface routes never recovered compared to what was being run before.

If social distancing becomes a permanent or even a long or medium term normal thing, it does raise questions about what do loading and crowding standards look like to accommodate less dense occupation of vehicles, how much transit service needs to be operated to accomplish that, and what the knock on effects for fare and subsidy policy is.

[T3G]

53 minutes ago, Wayside Observer said:

Yes, that’s true, but it’s too early to know how long that eventual return could take.  The ridership lost in that brutal recession in the early 90s didn’t come back for 10 years or so, and service on the surface routes never recovered compared to what was being run before.

If social distancing becomes a permanent or even a long or medium term normal thing, it does raise questions about what do loading and crowding standards look like to accommodate less dense occupation of vehicles, how much transit service needs to be operated to accomplish that, and what the knock on effects for fare and subsidy policy is.

While a valid concern, I offer the Spanish flu as a counter-argument. Did the TTC see any long term service reductions after that was over and done? I've never seen any reference made to it in any literature on the history of the TTC, so I assume not.

It is difficult to imagine how long it will take for all the ridership to come back, but I'd expect at least a portion of it to bounce back relatively soon after the stay-at-home order is lifted, as people get fed up and start itching to go places again.

[Streety McCarface]

7 minutes ago, PCC Guy said:

While a valid concern, I offer the Spanish flu as a counter-argument. Did the TTC see any long term service reductions after that was over and done? I've never seen any reference made to it in any literature on the history of the TTC, so I assume not.

There also weren't any transportation alternatives to the streetcar after WWI. 

There also weren't alternatives methods of conducting work. 

[Bus_Medic]

11 minutes ago, PCC Guy said:

While a valid concern, I offer the Spanish flu as a counter-argument. Did the TTC see any long term service reductions after that was over and done? I've never seen any reference made to it in any literature on the history of the TTC, so I assume not.

It is difficult to imagine how long it will take for all the ridership to come back, but I'd expect at least a portion of it to bounce back relatively soon after the stay-at-home order is lifted, as people get fed up and start itching to go places again.

Unless I’m missing something, probably because the TTC wasn’t legislated into existence until 2 years into recovery, in 1921. 

[T3G]

2 minutes ago, Bus_Medic said:

Unless I’m missing something, probably because the TTC wasn’t legislated into existence until 2 years into recovery, in 1921. 

Thanks for the correction, the timeline completely slipped my mind.

[63 Ossington]

There is also the fact that many riders especially those who have alternative options, may opt to not ride like sardines again, at least for a while.

[Xtrazsteve]

48 minutes ago, 63 Ossington said:

There is also the fact that many riders especially those who have alternative options, may opt to not ride like sardines again, at least for a while.

They aren't getting on the 29 Sufferin for sure. With oil prices being lower, I wouldn't be surprised people opt to drive more even if traffic is worse.

[TheAverageJoe]

6 hours ago, 9924 said:

People have been forced into online shopping, they want a choice even if it just means going out to browse.  Retail will pick up.

Retail has been having hard time with stores for a while. Its worse in the USA then here but even here there has been store closings and even total brand closings

[John Oke]

Does anyone know if they’re routing the 506 away from High Park while it’s closed? ie: Short turning at Landsdowne or going to Dundas West instead 

[meltingtomato]

13 hours ago, John Oke said:

Does anyone know if they’re routing the 506 away from High Park while it’s closed? ie: Short turning at Landsdowne or going to Dundas West instead 

Doesn't seem necessary. They're probably doing what they always did at night, which is end and start their trips at Howard Park and Parkside, and go into High Park Loop without customers.

[9924]

On 4/26/2020 at 9:32 PM, TheAverageJoe said:

Retail has been having hard time with stores for a while. Its worse in the USA then here but even here there has been store closings and even total brand closings

I realize that, this could be the boost they need, although temporary.  People are tired of online shopping, need a change of scenery and go out and look and hold things.

[TheAverageJoe]

9 hours ago, 9924 said:

I realize that, this could be the boost they need, although temporary.  People are tired of online shopping, need a change of scenery and go out and look and hold things.

Agree to disagree year after year the numbers keep increasing for online shopping with the numbers for most malls going down. The A and B class malls should be fine , the lower class community malls are changing from retail to mixed development that includes medical, education and residential. Those can help with transit riders. Agincourt Mall, Galleria, Shoppers World Brampton come to mind that will be going through these changes  

[wil9402]

I found this on Reddit and thought I'd share it here. It's a podcast episode about the 1995 Russell Hill subway accident and the inquest that followed. I found it quite interesting, learned some things I didn't know already about the accident.

https://omny.fm/shows/history-of/the-ttc-subway-crash-5

[MK78]

Has anyone heard anything what the TTC might do to reinstate front door boarding on buses, with operator safety in mind of course, so that payment other than Presto can be used again, or any sort of fare enforcement on streetcars - again if they can come up with a way that's safe.

The reason I ask is because since that policy was introduced and fare enforcement effectively paused, not only has the TTC bled money like a stuck pig not only from ridership loss due to COVID-19, but also people taking advantage and not paying, and the bigger problem of homeless & drug addicts using the TTC vehicles & premises as their personal injection sites as well as other mischief...

Over the radio I've heard of people defecating & urinating in stations, injecting drugs on trains and bathrooms at an alarming rate, undressing themselves, throwing buggies & bicycles on track level, and tons of aggressive and belligerent people threatening the TTC staff as well as the public.

When the province decides to open up more places of work in the coming weeks/months, ridership will increase and this will only become a bigger issue IMO.

 

[63 Ossington]

I would imagine that more visible law enforcement presence would help. People act out more when they think they will face no consequences. Of course it won't eliminate all the riff-raff, but it may cause people to think twice before doing their unsavoury activity.

[Ed T.]

1 hour ago, MK78 said:

Has anyone heard anything what the TTC might do to reinstate front door boarding on buses, with operator safety in mind of course, so that payment other than Presto can be used again, or any sort of fare enforcement on streetcars - again if they can come up with a way that's safe.

The reason I ask is because since that policy was introduced and fare enforcement effectively paused, not only has the TTC bled money like a stuck pig not only from ridership loss due to COVID-19, but also people taking advantage and not paying, and the bigger problem of homeless & drug addicts using the TTC vehicles & premises as their personal injection sites as well as other mischief...

Over the radio I've heard of people defecating & urinating in stations, injecting drugs on trains and bathrooms at an alarming rate, undressing themselves, throwing buggies & bicycles on track level, and tons of aggressive and belligerent people threatening the TTC staff as well as the public.

When the province decides to open up more places of work in the coming weeks/months, ridership will increase and this will only become a bigger issue IMO.

 

 

When 80% or more of your riders have vanished, fare evasion is the least of your worries.

I'd like a more reliable citation than "I've heard over the radio" for the other problems you list.

[MK78]

48 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

 

I'd like a more reliable citation than "I've heard over the radio" for the other problems you list.

Well it's not like there's other ways to get information now, especially that there are no board meetings.

I'm just sharing what i've heard monitoring the TETRA system, surface supervisors, subway stations managers, transit enforcement channels... Believe what you will.

[Wayside Observer]

2 hours ago, MK78 said:

Has anyone heard anything what the TTC might do to reinstate front door boarding on buses, with operator safety in mind of course, so that payment other than Presto can be used again, or any sort of fare enforcement on streetcars - again if they can come up with a way that's safe.

The reason I ask is because since that policy was introduced and fare enforcement effectively paused, not only has the TTC bled money like a stuck pig not only from ridership loss due to COVID-19, but also people taking advantage and not paying, and the bigger problem of homeless & drug addicts using the TTC vehicles & premises as their personal injection sites as well as other mischief...

Over the radio I've heard of people defecating & urinating in stations, injecting drugs on trains and bathrooms at an alarming rate, undressing themselves, throwing buggies & bicycles on track level, and tons of aggressive and belligerent people threatening the TTC staff as well as the public.

When the province decides to open up more places of work in the coming weeks/months, ridership will increase and this will only become a bigger issue IMO.

I wonder if it'll actually become less of an issue as things reopen.  Right now, for the most part, the subway's pretty empty by all accounts which probably means the people pulling this crap are probably doing it because they think they can get away with it "because no one's around", or at least very few people are around.  Start returning to more populated levels of occupation and the disincentive to pull this sort of thing in public goes down.  Remember this stuff wasn't nearly as rampant pre-COVID-19 when the TTC was packed as usual.