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Orion V

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2 hours ago, Shaun said:

I find that a lot of the arrow division buses have their windows locked shut. Makes it harder to get air in the bus.

I dont know if they're locked, but sometimes it's just really hard to push the handle to open, on a lot of Nova's. It's a real bad design, and also because the rear-most seats don't have a window that opens.

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2 hours ago, MK78 said:

I dont know if they're locked, but sometimes it's just really hard to push the handle to open, on a lot of Nova's. It's a real bad design, and also because the rear-most seats don't have a window that opens.

The windows on the 3100s and up have locking mechanisms. During the summer they'll be locked when the AC is on

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6 hours ago, TechnicaProductions said:

The windows on the 3100s and up have locking mechanisms. During the summer they'll be locked when the AC is on

Jeez. Maybe the 3100's have better AC than the older models. Cuz those stink. and like I said there's some bloody issue with the engine coolant circulation system cuz it'll be 20 degrees outside and it will be pumping heat into the baseboard heaters. Not to mention poor insulation the rear seat is like a furnace itself.

I asked one operator and he said he can't adjust anything. Maybe I gotta start jotting the numbers and posting twitter complaints to @TTChelps

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1 hour ago, MK78 said:

Jeez. Maybe the 3100's have better AC than the older models. Cuz those stink. and like I said there's some bloody issue with the engine coolant circulation system cuz it'll be 20 degrees outside and it will be pumping heat into the baseboard heaters. Not to mention poor insulation the rear seat is like a furnace itself.

I asked one operator and he said he can't adjust anything. Maybe I gotta start jotting the numbers and posting twitter complaints to @TTChelps

The layout for the vents (where the ads are) extends to the back on 3100+, whereas it only gets as far as the wheels on 8400+. I've noticed that the 3100s feel cooler in the back vs the previous gen. Mind you, this doesn't matter much if half the windows stay open when the AC is on (because people are selfish). A locking mechanism is great; sealed windows are better.

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48 minutes ago, meltingtomato said:

The layout for the vents (where the ads are) extends to the back on 3100+, whereas it only gets as far as the wheels on 8400+. I've noticed that the 3100s feel cooler in the back vs the previous gen. Mind you, this doesn't matter much if half the windows stay open when the AC is on (because people are selfish). A locking mechanism is great; sealed windows are better.

If the AC works fine, I am all for locking the windows. But in the Eglinton & Birchmount Novas, its bad. Will see as the summer goes on.

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11 hours ago, meltingtomato said:

The layout for the vents (where the ads are) extends to the back on 3100+, whereas it only gets as far as the wheels on 8400+. I've noticed that the 3100s feel cooler in the back vs the previous gen. Mind you, this doesn't matter much if half the windows stay open when the AC is on (because people are selfish). A locking mechanism is great; sealed windows are better.

I also have to add that the vents on the 3400s (hybrids) seem to be more spaced out due to (correct me if I'm wrong) the AC being electrically rather than hydraulically operated. Or is this so for some of the diesel buses as well? I haven't ridden the 3100s enough to make out an audible distinction, and the raised roofline on the 3400s is really concealing the parts of the vehicle that interest transit fans like us.

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2 hours ago, leylandvictory2 said:

That's true.  Nova has an automatic climate control.  The only thing the driver can do is either enable the climate control or disable the function.

They are like that on the TR trains too. One can find the vents blasting heat in 30 degrees weather when the train. The trains may have gotten too cold and heat is used to compensate.

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The air circulation system on all Novas is just bad plain and simple. It may vary depending on the type of HVAC system that is used (ie: Carrier vs Thermo King)  but in general i've noticed that the Carrier system is just messed up.

For starters the cooling doesn't reach all the way to the rear of the bus, which doesnt help at all since the extreme rear windows cant be opened up at all. Then add to the fact that the amount of cooling one can actually feel can vary dramatically where one is seated/standing onboard the bus (literally if someone is seated or standing on the sides of the bus they can feel cool air blasting on them, vs. when one stands in the center when they feels blasts of cool air vs random warm air patches).

Heating is another issue altogether and really varies based on the bus. Some blast heat like has been mentioned above, while others actually function like a normal heating system. The one thing i will say is that on the older Nova models (84XX-85XX and 90XX-9152) is that the bad door design allows air to seep into the bus like no mans business. This is especially noticeable during the winter time.

As i've said before, how Nova has gotten away with the bad air circulation on their buses for all this time is beyond me. What's more striking is that I dont know how this could even escape various engineering tests that they do.

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1 hour ago, lip said:

The air circulation system on all Novas is just bad plain and simple. It may vary depending on the type of HVAC system that is used (ie: Carrier vs Thermo King)  but in general i've noticed that the Carrier system is just messed up.

For starters the cooling doesn't reach all the way to the rear of the bus, which doesnt help at all since the extreme rear windows cant be opened up at all. Then add to the fact that the amount of cooling one can actually feel can vary dramatically where one is seated/standing onboard the bus (literally if someone is seated or standing on the sides of the bus they can feel cool air blasting on them, vs. when one stands in the center when they feels blasts of cool air vs random warm air patches).

Heating is another issue altogether and really varies based on the bus. Some blast heat like has been mentioned above, while others actually function like a normal heating system. The one thing i will say is that on the older Nova models (84XX-85XX and 90XX-9152) is that the bad door design allows air to seep into the bus like no mans business. This is especially noticeable during the winter time.

As i've said before, how Nova has gotten away with the bad air circulation on their buses for all this time is beyond me. What's more striking is that I dont know how this could even escape various engineering tests that they do.

Well for Quebec systems it doesn't matter how bad the LFS is as their government seems to fund only NovaBus kind of like Ontario did with Orion in the 90s. They have no other choice.

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1 hour ago, lip said:

The air circulation system on all Novas is just bad plain and simple. It may vary depending on the type of HVAC system that is used (ie: Carrier vs Thermo King)  but in general i've noticed that the Carrier system is just messed up.

For starters the cooling doesn't reach all the way to the rear of the bus, which doesnt help at all since the extreme rear windows cant be opened up at all. Then add to the fact that the amount of cooling one can actually feel can vary dramatically where one is seated/standing onboard the bus (literally if someone is seated or standing on the sides of the bus they can feel cool air blasting on them, vs. when one stands in the center when they feels blasts of cool air vs random warm air patches).

Heating is another issue altogether and really varies based on the bus. Some blast heat like has been mentioned above, while others actually function like a normal heating system. The one thing i will say is that on the older Nova models (84XX-85XX and 90XX-9152) is that the bad door design allows air to seep into the bus like no mans business. This is especially noticeable during the winter time.

As i've said before, how Nova has gotten away with the bad air circulation on their buses for all this time is beyond me. What's more striking is that I dont know how this could even escape various engineering tests that they do.

The Novas also produce a lot of heat through the back seats. Sit on one in the summer and you'll know. It doesn't matter what HVAC unit is running, the engine is just going to heat the rear

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4 hours ago, Orion V said:

Well for Quebec systems it doesn't matter how bad the LFS is as their government seems to fund only NovaBus kind of like Ontario did with Orion in the 90s. They have no other choice.

When I was riding in Montreal the other day, someone told me their buses aren't air conditioned - which surprised me, but I only ever seem to ride in the winter or spring in recent years. If true, perhaps they just don't have a lot of clients that request air conditioning.

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11 hours ago, nfitz said:

When I was riding in Montreal the other day, someone told me their buses aren't air conditioned - which surprised me, but I only ever seem to ride in the winter or spring in recent years. If true, perhaps they just don't have a lot of clients that request air conditioning.

Montreal only started adding AC to their buses in 2017. Their hybrid and electric LFSes have it

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1 hour ago, TechnicaProductions said:

Montreal only started adding AC to their buses in 2017. Their hybrid and electric LFSes have it

That might explain why many haven't seen it - looking at https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Société_de_transport_de_Montréal#Bus_fleet_roster it appears most of their recent annual orders have been relatively small, only about 100 a year in recent years compared to hundreds a year in earlier years. Gosh, do they really keep their buses 17 years?

It looks like they older buses are fitted with windows that open properly - not the silly barely opening high windows on the TTC AC buses. AC is great when it works - but so many summer days the old streetcars were preferable to a TTC bus which didn't have working AC!

Seems to me that Nova has to spend more time on hot buses, to figure out how to improve it. I have to give Bombardier credit - their air on the new streetcars seems to work well.

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16 hours ago, lip said:

^Trust me, im well aware the hot box bench that is the rear seats of the NovaBus. Durigng the winter they act as tush insulators, during the summer they're like a sauna.

Even if the HVAC is working properly and circuates well, the rear bench heating is going to disturb that and create these random heat patches as hot air mixes with cool air. Plus people at the rear of the bus are much closer to the ceiling where the warmer air will gather. I do think if they can properly prevent the engine heat from entering in the bus, the cooling and air circulation wouldn't be as bad.

12 hours ago, nfitz said:

When I was riding in Montreal the other day, someone told me their buses aren't air conditioned - which surprised me, but I only ever seem to ride in the winter or spring in recent years. If true, perhaps they just don't have a lot of clients that request air conditioning.

GTA is the only place in Canada that have been buying buses with AC for an extra $10-15k for the last 2 decades. Most TAs haven't been able to afford this luxury. Vancouver and Montreal only started to buy them recently.

A little Googling reviews:

This article about Edmonton's ETS buses and LRVs:
https://globalnews.ca/news/2305847/adding-air-conditioning-to-ets-buses-a-no-go-says-one-edmonton-councillor/

Quote

 

Currently there is air conditioning in the passenger area of 57 of 94 LRT cars. Two hybrid buses are equipped with A/C. DATS vehicles and 46 city buses have air conditioning, but only in the driver’s compartment.

The remaining 884 buses in Edmonton Transit’s fleet do not have air conditioning, and the city estimates it will cost $43,000 to retrofit each bus with A/C, for a total of $38 million.

 

Not even all the LRVs have AC.

Winnipeg article from 2016:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-transit-air-conditioning-1.3691708

Quote

In an email, a city spokesperson said 275 of the 619 buses in Winnipeg Transit's fleet are air conditioned and replacement of the entire fleet with air conditioned buses is expected in approximately 12 years.

 

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3 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

GTA is the only place in Canada that have been buying buses with AC for an extra $10-15k for the last 2 decades. Most TAs haven't been able to afford this luxury. Vancouver and Montreal only started to buy them recently.

Not exactly true. Medicine Hat Transit has been only ordering Air Conditioned minibuses since 1985, and only AC'd Full-size buses since 1997. While I haven't been able to confirm this, a driver told me that some of the Fishbowls were retrofitted with AC upon conversion to methanol.

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On 5/31/2019 at 10:43 AM, MK78 said:

Ugh, this is a bit of a rant...

What the frig is wrong with some of these Nova's thermostats? Warm days are here and the bloody heat pumps in them like its middle of January? The darn baseboard heaters are so hot that they literally burn you.

Seems to be the older Birchmount Nova's that are the most offending ones. Someone once mentioned that there was some sort of "fix" being implemented for that, but I wonder if it ever got applied to all the buses.

 

Had a Nova today. Lady yelling at me to turn the heat off. Well it's automatic climate control but I guess I'll just turn it off then.

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2 hours ago, andyman said:

Had a Nova today. Lady yelling at me to turn the heat off. Well it's automatic climate control but I guess I'll just turn it off then.

Doesn't well too well, does it?

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5 hours ago, andyman said:

Had a Nova today. Lady yelling at me to turn the heat off. Well it's automatic climate control but I guess I'll just turn it off then.

I assume you passed on the information to you supervisors.

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On June 2, 2019 at 12:26 PM, Xtrazsteve said:

GTA is the only place in Canada that have been buying buses with AC for an extra $10-15k for the last 2 decades.

Umm, STO, OC Transpo, Kingston Transit, Cornwall Transit, London Transit, Transit Windsor, Greater Sudbury Transit...

None of which I'd consider GTA even if it were Mel Lastman talking about what wonderful suburbs they are.

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Do you know what will happen to some of the Queensway's 79xx fleets which doesn't have VISION on them?

I know some went to Birchmount to supplement streetcar replacement routes

Right now, there's only one of them on the Queensway route which is 7921 on Evans

Will they get VISION later on? or be retired later in the year?

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