Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions

[TTCNLFBT]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/02/15/time-to-create-a-ttc-transit-museum-councillor-says.html - Here's a Toronto Star article about a TTC Transit Museum back in 2017.

[WoodbineSecondExit]

There are new decals making their way on to the doors of the new streetcars advising people to pay their fare onboard. That's cheaper than real enforcement...

[nfitz]

6 minutes ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

There are new decals making their way on to the doors of the new streetcars advising people to pay their fare onboard. That's cheaper than real enforcement...

I've seen more fare enforcement recently on streetcars - particularly on 506. Aren't they increasing the size of that unit?

[Cityflyer]

Now that they're in the stage of pouring concrete for the stations itself and more than 6 Freedoms have been delivered, it is safe to say Line 5 will use Freedoms instead of the Spirits?

Hypothetically speaking, if the Spirits were to be used, would they have to redesign the station lengths since each unit is 48m VS 60m (30 + 30)? Or would it be better if they order the 59m variant of the Spirits to match the original station design length of Line 5?

[Bus_Medic]

4 minutes ago, Cityflyer said:

Now that they're in the stage of pouring concrete for the stations itself and more than 6 Freedoms have been delivered, it is safe to say Line 5 will use Freedoms instead of the Spirits?

Hypothetically speaking, if the Spirits were to be used, would they have to redesign the station lengths since each unit is 48m VS 60m (30 + 30)? Or would it be better if they order the 59m variant of the Spirits to match the original station design length of Line 5?

Logically, wouldn’t it be easier for Muhammad to go to the mountain than the other way ‘round?

[nfitz]

8 hours ago, Cityflyer said:

Now that they're in the stage of pouring concrete for the stations itself and more than 6 Freedoms have been delivered, it is safe to say Line 5 will use Freedoms instead of the Spirits?

Hypothetically speaking, if the Spirits were to be used, would they have to redesign the station lengths since each unit is 48m VS 60m (30 + 30)? Or would it be better if they order the 59m variant of the Spirits to match the original station design length of Line 5?

I thought it was firm that it would be Flexitiy's since Metrolinx settled out of court with Bombardier, to reduce the order, and increase the purchase price for each Flexity back in 2017.

I thought the maximum platform length for the underground Line 5 stations was about 95 metres or so ... 3 Flexities or 2 Spirits. Though I'd think bigger issue is maintenance facility designed for shorter cars.

 

[Kobayashi]

Looking into the TTC's 1986 Annual Report and I found this interesting:

Quote

To meet fast-growing ridership on several heavily travelled surface routes, the TTC placed an order with Ontario Bus Industries for 90 articulated Orion-Ikarus buses at a cost of approximately $29 million. These 18-m (60-ft) vehicles can carry approximately 50 per cent more passengers than standard 12-m (40-ft) buses and will prove valuable on high-density routes. Thirty of the diesel-powered vehicles are scheduled to be delivered in each of 1987, 1988 and 1989.

The TTC's second major bus order for 1987 delivery was for 70 standard diesel buses. General Motors of Canada will supply 50 of these vehicles; New Flyer Industries of Winnipeg is to provide the remaining 20 buses. The total cost of this equipment

When did the 1987 40ft order added 74 more buses? MCI took over the Classic production in the middle of the #6210-#6293 order. 

As for the New Flyer orders, when did the TTC acquired "70 diesel buses" which later became 157 buses (#6300-#6359, #6420-#6434, #6440-#6521)? How did the TTC manage to have an option to purchase 79 D40s in 1990?

From the beginning, when the Orion III order was bought, what garages were first delivered to?

Can anyone of the following people in this board: @smallspy, @a.dicion, @Xtrazsteve, @Richard, @Rob H, @Robert Lubinski explain?

[DAT_28]

Anyone know when there will be wifi on the 31xx and 34xx? 

[bus_7246]

11 hours ago, BYD said:

Looking into the TTC's 1986 Annual Report and I found this interesting:

When did the 1987 40ft order added 74 more buses? MCI took over the Classic production in the middle of the #6210-#6293 order. 

As for the New Flyer orders, when did the TTC acquired "70 diesel buses" which later became 157 buses (#6300-#6359, #6420-#6434, #6440-#6521)? How did the TTC manage to have an option to purchase 79 D40s in 1990?

From the beginning, when the Orion III order was bought, what garages were first delivered to?

Can anyone of the following people in this board: @smallspy, @a.dicion, @Xtrazsteve, @Richard, @Rob H, @Robert Lubinski explain?

6210-6259 were the last GMC TC40-102N (Classics). 6260-6293 were MCI TC40-102N.

From New Flyer, D40s 6300-6359 (though 60 buses) were the only batch from them for 1987. The D40 6420-6434 & D40 6440-6521 were 1988 & 1989 respectively. 6440 made a brief appearance with OC Transpo as a demonstrator. Given the times, the 1990 D40s were replacement buses for older fishbowls. 

The Orion-Ikarus IIIs were delivered to Arrow Rd, Malvern & Wilson. But the TA60-102N was TTCs original first batch of articulated buses numbered 8500-8511, delivered in 1982 I believe. They only ran in the east from the pics I’ve seen before they were sold to Mississauga Transit. 

[TTC4120fan]

Is this one of the Event support buses? I don’t remember them being all white.

[Articulated]

16 minutes ago, Matthew TTC 4120 said:

Is this one of the Event support buses? I don’t remember them being all white.

The buses aren't all white; that's just a shitty photo.

While they were originally painted in an all-over dark grey colour, they were repainted in the fall to have bands of light grey and white.

[reecemartin]

Finally did a video on St. Patrciks new elevators: 

Super exciting because if you're in a wheelchair then the TTC just got a new station!

[Orion VI]

I think I already posted this (dont get tooo mad at me) 

but

1031 has 7929s rear and and has a different font than normal

its now tracking at Hillcrest (presumably getting painted)

[Transit geek]

I have recently discovered that operators have become somewhat lazy and forgot to shift their buses' transmissions to neutral during their layovers, leaving it in drive and relying solely on the parking brake and/or the brake interlock to keep the vehicle stationary:

This probably wouldn't be that much of a concern for the electronically-controlled LFS hybrids but with the diesels there is quite the possibility for damage to the transmission while it is in gear and the service brakes not applied.

[T3G]

7 minutes ago, Transit geek said:

I have recently discovered that operators have become somewhat lazy and forgot to shift their buses' transmissions to neutral during their layovers, leaving it in drive and relying solely on the parking brake and/or the brake interlock to keep the vehicle stationary:

 

This probably wouldn't be that much of a concern for the electronically-controlled LFS hybrids but with the diesels there is quite the possibility for damage to the transmission while it is in gear and the service brakes not applied.

And how, pray tell, did you get this photograph?

[Someguy3071]

8 hours ago, Transit geek said:

I have recently discovered that operators have become somewhat lazy and forgot to shift their buses' transmissions to neutral during their layovers, leaving it in drive and relying solely on the parking brake and/or the brake interlock to keep the vehicle stationary:

 

This probably wouldn't be that much of a concern for the electronically-controlled LFS hybrids but with the diesels there is quite the possibility for damage to the transmission while it is in gear and the service brakes not applied.

Did this actually make sense in your head before you posted this?

There is absolutely no difference to the transmission whether spring or service brake is applied. 

[Cityflyer]

1) If I tapped with Presto on a TTC bus and then transferred on a 504 (outside of a fare paid zone) and forgot to tap on 504 but within the 2h, will I get in trouble if the fare inspector checks my card and find I didn't tap on the 504 even though I am still within that 2h limit?

2) If I tap on any streetcar route at 1h 58min after I initially tap on any TTC route / station, and the inspector on that streetcar route comes on and check my card say 30min into the ride, it would show I initially tapped on 2h 28min ago which is well outside the 2h limit. Will I be charged?

[smallspy]

1 hour ago, Cityflyer said:

1) If I tapped with Presto on a TTC bus and then transferred on a 504 (outside of a fare paid zone) and forgot to tap on 504 but within the 2h, will I get in trouble if the fare inspector checks my card and find I didn't tap on the 504 even though I am still within that 2h limit?

You are supposed to tap whenever you enter a vehicle outside of a fare-paid area. On routes that service fare-paid areas of stations it can be hard to discern that however, so you could probably argue your way out of it.

 

Quote

2) If I tap on any streetcar route at 1h 58min after I initially tap on any TTC route / station, and the inspector on that streetcar route comes on and check my card say 30min into the ride, it would show I initially tapped on 2h 28min ago which is well outside the 2h limit. Will I be charged?

The inspector will see the original tap and the follow-up one on the streetcar.

 

Dan

[nfitz]

48 minutes ago, smallspy said:

You are supposed to tap whenever you enter a vehicle outside of a fare-paid area. On routes that service fare-paid areas of stations it can be hard to discern that however, so you could probably argue your way out of it.

TTC customer service has made it clear several times that people who fail to tap when transferring (but still under the 2-hour tap) and those with passes that don't tap, won't be fined. Will the fare inspector give them trouble ... maybe if one is troubled by being told to tap, but not being fined. They are "asking" people to tap, not "demanding" or "enforcing".

 

[63 Ossington]

How I understand it is that it will require an extra step for the fare inspector verifying your valid fare which could prolong the inspection just a bit. And as for the tapping at 1h 58 min, I believe that you would be in violation at 30 mins into that ride - as your fare expires at 2h; you are supposed to complete your trip within the 2h. 

[Xtrazsteve]

11 minutes ago, 63 Ossington said:

How I understand it is that it will require an extra step for the fare inspector verifying your valid fare which could prolong the inspection just a bit. And as for the tapping at 1h 58 min, I believe that you would be in violation at 30 mins into that ride - as your fare expires at 2h; you are supposed to complete your trip within the 2h. 

The fare doesn't expire at 2 hours. That would be ridiculous if you have to leave the system by 2 hours, the rule is everyone is supposed to tap every time they change vehicles. The system is suppose to either accept their transfer or charge a fare. The rider has no responsibility to ensure they complete all trips within 2 hours and cannot control if they want to pay a fare at 1h 59 min. That would be the rider would have to skip the next vehicle and wait for the next one so they can be charged a fare. If the rider is in the middle of the ride, it would mean the rider have to tap in the middle of the trip or possible leave the subway. Alternatively this would require riders to carry multiple presto cards if that was the case.

TTC has mention the rider just have to make their last transfer within 2 hours regardless how far that vehicle is going. Since it's impossible to even check if a transfer is valid or chose to pay a fare instead of accepting a transfer, they can't be forced to finish within 2 hours.

[Tom1122]

I've got a hypothetical question:

Suppose TTC wanted to make it so some T-1s could be compatible with the signal system on the TYSSE and decided to assign cars 5350-5355  for simplicity sake and the trains ran with the cars in numerical order with 5350 and 5355 as lead cars. Would only cars 5350 and 5355 have to be modified, their mate cars too, or all six cars?

I just thought of this and I was curious.

[smallspy]

18 hours ago, nfitz said:

TTC customer service has made it clear several times that people who fail to tap when transferring (but still under the 2-hour tap) and those with passes that don't tap, won't be fined. Will the fare inspector give them trouble ... maybe if one is troubled by being told to tap, but not being fined. They are "asking" people to tap, not "demanding" or "enforcing".
 

That's the case in theory, but from my experience has not been the practice. Despite the fact that I've got a monthly pass, I have been warned that I need to tap my card every time I enter a streetcar - and that warning has apparently been placed on my file.

 

11 hours ago, 63 Ossington said:

And as for the tapping at 1h 58 min, I believe that you would be in violation at 30 mins into that ride - as your fare expires at 2h; you are supposed to complete your trip within the 2h. 

Absolutely incorrect. Your trip can take as long as you need it to, provided it fits within the usual TTC transfer and fare rules. Your additional taps counting as transfers are only valid within 120 minutes of your first tap, however.

 

8 hours ago, Tom1122 said:

I've got a hypothetical question:

Suppose TTC wanted to make it so some T-1s could be compatible with the signal system on the TYSSE and decided to assign cars 5350-5355  for simplicity sake and the trains ran with the cars in numerical order with 5350 and 5355 as lead cars. Would only cars 5350 and 5355 have to be modified, their mate cars too, or all six cars?

I just thought of this and I was curious.

It wouldn't really matter which car(s) had the behind-the-scenes equipment fitted, but the first and last cars in your hypothetical train would need the train/operator interface equipment and the wayside communication equipment installed in them, but none of the others. The rest of the cars are being controlled and operated by the lead car, so they would simply be responding to what they are being told to do.

 

Dan

[CLRV4002]

A few weeks ago when the Yonge line was closed from St.clair to Lawrence for the weekend, I was on a train and transit control announced to operators that they were now doing a “1 train stepback” at St.Clair station. Out of curiosity, what does that mean and is there such a thing as a 2 train stepback, 3 train...etc ? 

[63 Ossington]

14 hours ago, smallspy said:

   Absolutely incorrect. Your trip can take as long as you need it to, provided it fits within the usual TTC transfer and fare rules. Your additional taps counting as transfers are only valid within 120 minutes of your first tap, however.

  

On regular bus/subway routes where you are in a fare-paid vehicle, I can see that, but on POP streetcar routes which are not fare-paid vehicles, what will the fare inspector see and do when they inspect your Presto card? 

On for the TTC, this is a grey area on the customer's front as such a situation is not explicitly addressed anywhere I have seen. 

However on Viva, it apparently is the case. That being said, I do recognize the TTC is not Viva and policy can very well be different.

Quote

What happens if my two-hour ticket expires while I'm still on the bus?

****[Name of person]****** TOWN OF EAST GWILLIMBURY

YRT says...

Your validated ticket or transfer indicates the time your trip expires.You have up to two hours to travel, but you must complete your entire trip and exit the bus before your ticket or transfer expires. If your time expires while you are still travelling, you could be subject to a fine. However, Enforcement officers will determine if a fine is warranted on a case-by-case basis. We understand that road conditions can impact transit time.

Plan your travel time carefully! YRT/Viva cannot revoke a fine once it has been issued. Make sure you always have a valid ticket or pass while travelling on YRT/Viva.

Answered On: July 13th, 2017 @ 1:03 PM

From http://bit.ly/1GBoA0w

From the Two-Hour transfer page of the TTC site:

Quote

Two-hour transfer

Available to PRESTO card customers only.

How it works:

• Tap your PRESTO card on a card reader when you enter a subway station or board a vehicle.
• Your fare will be deducted and a transfer will be applied to your card. Your transfer is valid for two hours.
• Hop on and off the system or switch directions at any point in your journey.
• Tap your PRESTO card on a reader each time you enter a subway station and when you board a bus or streetcar. As long as you’re within two hours from your first tap, you won’t be charged another fare.

NOTE: The two-hour transfer does not apply to ticket, token or cash customers. Our same transfer rules apply, customers must be travelling in a continuous one-way direction with no stop overs.

 

•