Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions

[Wayside Observer]

37 minutes ago, 7969 said:

This is a Toronto transit thread.  Please don’t post this here.  Keep it related to the TTC.

So, explain to me, how is the disposition of a large chunk of the TTC's Orion 7 fleet unrelated to the TTC?

[Orion VI]

Another question: What???!! I've never seen this before. What is it used for? 

Also, are there any more D40LFs at Mt. Dennis? What about the lone Orion V?

[TTC4120fan]

1 minute ago, Orion VI said:

Another question: What???!! I've never seen this before. What is it used for? 

Also, are there any more D40LFs at Mt. Dennis? What about the lone Orion V?

They are long gone. The D40LF's I would presume are scrapped. As for 9433, it's definitely scrap.

[Orion VI]

Just now, Matthew TTC 4120 said:

They are long gone. The D40LF's I would presume are scrapped. As for 9433, it's definitely scrap.

And the fishbowl?

[7969]

42 minutes ago, Wayside Observer said:

So, explain to me, how is the disposition of a large chunk of the TTC's Orion 7 fleet unrelated to the TTC?

First half of the question.

[Wayside Observer]

1 minute ago, 7969 said:

First half of the question.

You're on your way. Keep going. Continue through the second half.

[TTC4120fan]

50 minutes ago, Orion VI said:

And the fishbowl?

I would also assume it's scrap at this point.

I am guessing that this unit was forgotten about until you brought it up.

[Downsview 108]

5 hours ago, 7969 said:

This is a Toronto transit thread.  Please don’t post this here.  Keep it related to the TTC.

Zip it. Make-believe mod.

[7575]

TTC activates external cameras today. Footage on buses and streetcars will be kept for 72 hours while footage on Wheel-Trans will be kept for 7 days.

[Orion VI]

1

[7969]

Does anyone know why (according to CPTDB Wiki stats at least) high ridership routes like the 37 and 41 aren't on the 10 Minute Network?  I know the 41 has artics but it still seems a little strange.

[leylandvictory2]

36 minutes ago, Orion VI said:

Why is there a TR on line 2?

because dispatch feels like it.  

[Orion VI]

21 minutes ago, leylandvictory2 said:

because dispatch feels like it.  

its run 116 for all who feel like venturing out in this thing we call Canada

I thought there was something with the signals preventing the TRs from running?

[MK78]

as far as I know the TR's can run on BD just fine. They ran a bunch of them two years ago during the summer heatwaves when the T1 AC's were horribly unreliable.

[Wayside Observer]

7 minutes ago, Orion VI said:

I thought there was something with the signals preventing the TRs from running?

 

4 minutes ago, MK78 said:

as far as I know the TR's can run on BD just fine. They ran a bunch of them two years ago during the summer heatwaves when the T1 AC's were horribly unreliable.

Correct.  They can and have shifted Toronto Rockets to the Bloor Danforth line as needed no problem.  The second set of O, P, S, and 6 markers that were added a few years ago as the TRs arrived on both lines indicate to train drivers where to do what with those trains since they have differing performance characteristics to the T1s.

It's the reverse situation that's the problem now that ATO/ATC is live in places on the Yonge-University-Spadina line.  Shifting T1s from Bloor-Danforth to cover a problem isn't practical anymore as they'd be confined to a smaller and smaller part of the line as it gets resignalled.  Once ATO/ATC reaches the interchange between Museum and St. George and goes live there, it won't really be possible at all.

[MK78]

1 hour ago, Wayside Observer said:

The second set of O, P, S, and 6 markers that were added a few years ago as the TRs arrived on both lines indicate to train drivers where to do what with those trains since they have differing performance characteristics to the T1s.

Can you explain what that means, if you don't mind? Thanks.

[Transit geek]

2 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

It's the reverse situation that's the problem now that ATO/ATC is live in places on the Yonge-University-Spadina line.  Shifting T1s from Bloor-Danforth to cover a problem isn't practical anymore as they'd be confined to a smaller and smaller part of the line as it gets resignalled.  Once ATO/ATC reaches the interchange between Museum and St. George and goes live there, it won't really be possible at all.

Which in term will spell the end of the T-series cars due to the expenses of retrofitting and upgrading the cars as opposed to simply procuring a brand-new replacement fleet. Perhaps the TTC might open tenders sometime within the next year or two, possibly in conjunction with the Line 2 signal upgrade contract and maybe even for the relief line when constructed.

 

16 minutes ago, MK78 said:

Can you explain what that means, if you don't mind? Thanks.

Simply that the TR's traction equipment differs greatly from the T1s enough to necessitate alterations in the locations where operators need to stop applying power and start braking in order to stop the train at the correct position on the platforms. I have not rode Line 2 in a while, but will look out for those next time around.

[Downsview 108]

6 hours ago, MK78 said:

Can you explain what that means, if you don't mind? Thanks.

O= Off

P= Parallel

S=Series

Those markers on the tunnel walls that show what to do with that joystick in the subway cabs.

There are 2 "6" markers. The first is when you start braking and the second is where the train should stop. They used to have "4" and "8" markers in the Gloucester train era. 

[MK78]

7 hours ago, Downsview 108 said:

O= Off

P= Parallel

S=Series

Those markers on the tunnel walls that show what to do with that joystick in the subway cabs.

There are 2 "6" markers. The first is when you start braking and the second is where the train should stop. They used to have "4" and "8" markers in the Gloucester train era. 

Ah, cool... Yeah I actually did hear the dispatch this morning telling train operators that were trying to plow thru the open cut from vic park & warden "Keep it in parallel and keep it at full power". Those were empty trains and they were barely making it thru.

[Wayside Observer]

7 hours ago, Downsview 108 said:

O= Off

P= Parallel

S=Series

Those markers on the tunnel walls that show what to do with that joystick in the subway cabs.

There are 2 "6" markers. The first is when you start braking and the second is where the train should stop. They used to have "4" and "8" markers in the Gloucester train era. 

Exactly.  The nomenclature at this point is an anachronism.  It's a throwback to when traction motors were controlled by a combination of switching the circuit topology and adding and removing various resistances.

What exactly does parallel and series mean?  First, some quick background:  From G1 through H4, each truck on the TTC subway cars had a pair of 300 volt motors permanently wired in series to make a 600 V pair.  Same deal as on a PCC car.

What happens when a subway car is started up is the control package connects both trucks in series so all four motors are wired in series with eachother and connects that in series with all of the resistors.  That's basically as far as the "Inch" position on the driver's controller lets the controller go.  In the "Series" position, the controller progressively shorts out each resistor until the two trucks are connected in series with each other so all four traction motors in each car are wired up in series across the 600 V third rail supply but then stops there which prevents the train from picking up too much speed.  If the driver's controller is cranked all the way over into "Parallel", the control package continues past series into a state called transition where some switching takes place to place all of the resistors back in series with the motors in the two trucks, but each truck is connected in parallel with each other.  The controller progressively shorts out each resistor again so that this time each individual truck is across the 600 V third rail supply and you've got full power being delivered to each motor.  The last thing that happens in the control package once it hits full parallel is some resistances are added in parallel across the traction motors' field windings to get a bit more speed out of the motors and therefore the train.  O being off simply refers to letting the train coast unpowered but with no braking.

So the signs refer to the positions on the operator controllers which in turn referred to how far down the acceleration sequence the control package under the cars was being allowed to go with setting up the traction motor circuit.  The driver controllers on the cars with electronic propulsion have the same position markings and the electronics are designed to approximate the performance characteristics of the older control packages.

It's interesting that the decision was made to put out a second set of signs for the Toronto Rockets when back in the day, there were wide performance variations between Gloucesters through H6 and T1 cars.  Heck, even in the same train there could be serious performance differences.  Remember when they'd mix car types that could MU with each other?  If you got a train with an H6-M1-H6, the Montrealers in the middle would be bashing and slamming during braking because they'd stop a lot faster than the H6s and the H6 units on either side would keep going, dragging the Montreallers in the middle with them.

[Bus_Medic]

To supplement Wayside Observer’s post...maybe a little oversimplified though:

 

[Ed T.]

What was the meaning of the bank of six (?) coloured lights, on the pillar of the M cars and on the console of the H cars?

I believe that the two green lights had to do with the doors being closed. There were two blue lights, which I would guess have something to do with parallel and/or field shunting operation. The second blue light would only come on when the car was at speed. At least, that's my recollection.

[Wayside Observer]

The lights were in pairs. One indicated the state of the doors on that car, the other the rest of the train.  The blue lights were divided up the same way and indicated correct controller sequencing had taken place during acelleration up to full parallel and field shunting.  So they wouldn't come on at the same time because each car would notch up at different rates due to different load weighing measurements. The blue sequence lights would be off during coasting and braking. They'd also go off if a car was cut out, a controller on one of the cars had gone haywire and the line switch dropped open etc. You'd frequently see one of. The sequence lights out on the trains of H6s because there'd always be a car acting up somewhere.

 

If a controller went haywire somewhere, the driver would have to move the handle back to Open and then try again.  If it still wouldn't pick up, back to Open and lean on the LS Reset button in case a line switch got locked out on one of the cars and try again.  I was waiting for an eastbound train at Dundas West and a westbound train of H4s accelerating uphill out of the station acted up spectacularly with this amazing BANG BANG BANG BANG with blue flashes as the line switches dropped open each time.  Either there was a massive controller sequencing problem and the whole train was dropping out and resetting or the driver was ramming the controller handle between Open and Parallel and back rapidly for the heck of it!  Either way, the fireworks were amazing!  I bet that took a few weeks off those line switch contact tips...

[T3G]

Here's a labelled photo of the H4 console for some visual context: At the Controls by Mike Falkner, on Flickr

[Wayside Observer]

What happened? Did someone spray slime on that operator's desk?  I think some of the coloured lenses got changed around on that thing.  Damn, it looks like my memory got a bit faulty over the years. I thought the door indicator was split like the sequence ones but it wasn't. The train and car sequence lights should both be blue. Doors and acceleration lights at the top were both green I think. The EP light was some bright color. A lot of them had pen ink doodled over them to knock the brightness down because they were on all the time and over bright. And you can see the line switch reset button I mentioned on the right above the signal bell button.