Miscellaneous TTC Discussion & Questions

[williampaul]

quirk meaningless question:

TTC is obviously changing ID's so branch no.s depart and returning buses do not. ie: 32A,B etc leaving subway and all return 32

12 KR is a strange one and cannot follow this pattern as the main branch difference happens in the middle of the route, not at the outer ends.

So these buses leave 12A,B,C and still haev to return A,or B

are there any other bus routes in the system like the 12?

[T3G]

quirk meaningless question:

TTC is obviously changing ID's so branch no.s depart and returning buses do not. ie: 32A,B etc leaving subway and all return 32

12 KR is a strange one and cannot follow this pattern as the main branch difference happens in the middle of the route, not at the outer ends.

So these buses leave 12A,B,C and still haev to return A,or B

are there any other bus routes in the system like the 12?

IIRC that is true for any branches that differ from their main route - i.e. 35A via Hullmar or 32C via Trethewey.

[wil9402]

IIRC that is true for any branches that differ from their main route - i.e. 35A via Hullmar or 32C via Trethewey.

I believe what williampaul is talking about are routes that use branch letters both ways due to a difference mid-route. With the 12, 12A goes via Danforth-Birchmount to serve Variety Village while 12B and 12C stay on Kingston Rd. As a result, the branch letters are shown in both directions of travel. This is compared to 35A and 32C which do not show a branch letter when running in the opposite direction.

quirk meaningless question:

TTC is obviously changing ID's so branch no.s depart and returning buses do not. ie: 32A,B etc leaving subway and all return 32

12 KR is a strange one and cannot follow this pattern as the main branch difference happens in the middle of the route, not at the outer ends.

So these buses leave 12A,B,C and still haev to return A,or B

are there any other bus routes in the system like the 12?

Other examples are:

- 87 (87C stays on Cosburn, 87A serves East York Acres mid-route)

- 108 (108B runs via Arleta, 108A runs via Grandravine mid-route)

- 123 (123C runs via West Mall/North Queen, 123B/D runs via East Mall)

- 191 with the (191A/B stay on Highway 27, 191C serves Attwell/Royalcrest mid-route).

[Xtrazsteve]

quirk meaningless question:

TTC is obviously changing ID's so branch no.s depart and returning buses do not. ie: 32A,B etc leaving subway and all return 32

12 KR is a strange one and cannot follow this pattern as the main branch difference happens in the middle of the route, not at the outer ends.

So these buses leave 12A,B,C and still haev to return A,or B

are there any other bus routes in the system like the 12?

35A vs 35B/C

47B/C

87A/C

88A/B

100A/B. 100C is signed 100A.

109B/C

110A/B. This caused 110C to be signed both ways.

123B/C

130A/B

167A/B

169A/B

191B/C. This one is weird, 191B are signed 191A to Kipling station.

129A is signed both ways. I don't know why.

107B vs 107C/D splits up between Finch and Sheppard but I think 107 is used for C/D.

[Xtrazsteve]

Btw, does anyone know what is wrong with 1811?

Haven't seen it in service in a while. Saw it yesterday sitting at Malvern by the left side with a stop notice on it.

[raptorjays]

Btw, does anyone know what is wrong with 1811?

Haven't seen it in service in a while. Saw it yesterday sitting at Malvern by the left side with a stop notice on it.

So does 1643 for Mount Dennis.

Haven't seen it for a while

[FlyerD901]

72A back to Pape Station. TTC was playing around with that for a few years.

[Oc4526]

Btw, does anyone know what is wrong with 1811?

Haven't seen it in service in a while. Saw it yesterday sitting at Malvern by the left side with a stop notice on it.

Wasn't that one of the submerged buses (Toronto floods) ?

[Xtrazsteve]

Any words on service changes during Pam Am Games and the temporary 194 Aquatic Centre Rocket?

[williampaul]

Any words on service changes during Pam Am Games and the temporary 194 Aquatic Centre Rocket?

too early I think? ops guys may have some info at divisions, but the master list, signed by Mitch Stambler is usually released two months prior.

For example March 29th changes were released January 29

and the upcoming May 10 changes were released on March 18

I would guess it would be released 2nd or 3rd week of May?

[Xtrazsteve]

too early I think? ops guys may have some info at divisions, but the master list, signed by Mitch Stambler is usually released two months prior.

For example March 29th changes were released January 29

and the upcoming May 10 changes were released on March 18

I would guess it would be released 2nd or 3rd week of May?

There is also a short board 3 week board between June 21 and July 11.

I was hoping that they have info for the entire summer soon. In the past, they do have service summaries for the entire summer. It make sense that the service level in the 3 weeks before matches the board on the month after.

[leylandvictory2]

too early I think? ops guys may have some info at divisions, but the master list, signed by Mitch Stambler is usually released two months prior.

For example March 29th changes were released January 29

and the upcoming May 10 changes were released on March 18

I would guess it would be released 2nd or 3rd week of May?

they are still working out the routing as there are issues with bus clearance at the UTSC. From what I heard, artics will be used on one of the temporary routes and yes they will be used on highway.

[FlyerD901]

There will also separate Sign-ups for the Opening and Closing ceremonies.

[Gil]

they are still working out the routing as there are issues with bus clearance at the UTSC. From what I heard, artics will be used on one of the temporary routes and yes they will be used on highway.

I assume the will they be running the 198 as well as the 194 (the plans still had it as 116E). It also looks like there will there be a separate potential non-stop version of the 198 as identified in their planning maps, but is labelled as a temporary service specifically for the Games (197?). Is it a theme or coincidence that the temporary Pan Am routes (at least with TTC and MiWay) revolve around the 90s? Their routes are 95 and 96 for the Pan Ams and 97 and 98 for the Parapan Ams. Here's hoping the HOV lanes on the 404 and 401 work to get the buses to and from Don Mills station in a reasonable amount of time.

There's also a temporary route identified running from Kipling to Centennial Park separate from the one MiWay is operating which will also be making stops at the BMX and Bowling venues at Centennial Park and we're all out of 190s.

[Xtrazsteve]

I assume the will they be running the 198 as well as the 194 (the plans still had it as 116E). It also looks like there will there be a separate potential non-stop version of the 198 as identified in their planning maps, but is labelled as a temporary service specifically for the Games (197?). Is it a theme or coincidence that the temporary Pan Am routes (at least with TTC and MiWay) revolve around the 90s? Their routes are 95 and 96 for the Pan Ams and 97 and 98 for the Parapan Ams. Here's hoping the HOV lanes on the 404 and 401 work to get the buses to and from Don Mills station in a reasonable amount of time.

There's also a temporary route identified running from Kipling to Centennial Park separate from the one MiWay is operating which will also be making stops at the BMX and Bowling venues at Centennial Park and we're all out of 190s.

TTC should operate that route from Centennial Park to Kipling Station. I guess calling it 48E doesn't make sense. With the TTC expending their rocket routes, they'll be forced to either use the 180's range or really consider a 200's series rocket routes. It will be easier like 235 Jane Rocket, 239 Finch Rocket, 216 UTSC Rocket, etc. The airport rocket can be designated 200.

[Gil]

TTC should operate that route from Centennial Park to Kipling Station. I guess calling it 48E doesn't make sense. With the TTC expending their rocket routes, they'll be forced to either use the 180's range or really consider a 200's series rocket routes. It will be easier like 235 Jane Rocket, 239 Finch Rocket, 216 UTSC Rocket, etc. The airport rocket can be designated 200.

They could double-up on the 198 and have the non-stop be the 198E, that would free up the 194 for Centennial Park. I believe the long-term plan was to start moving into the 180 range for new Rocket routes seeing as it's currently empty. I'm not sure what will be the distinguishing feature between an Express branch of a route and a Rocket Route. Ideally, Rocket Routes would be ones that do not duplicate an existing route, but if they're trying to establish a brand then it's up to them.

[nfitz]

There will also separate Sign-ups for the Opening and Closing ceremonies.

Isn't that just an event at Skydome? How does it differ from any other sold-out Skydome event? Worst it seems to do is put a few more people on the King and Spadina streetcars - most walk to Union, where the subway trains can handle the load well.

[Xtrazsteve]

They could double-up on the 198 and have the non-stop be the 198E, that would free up the 194 for Centennial Park. I believe the long-term plan was to start moving into the 180 range for new Rocket routes seeing as it's currently empty. I'm not sure what will be the distinguishing feature between an Express branch of a route and a Rocket Route. Ideally, Rocket Routes would be ones that do not duplicate an existing route, but if they're trying to establish a brand then it's up to them.

The 194 is apparently already programmed on the destination signs. It's been mention in an report for accessibility transit for the game that was released late last year. Considering it might run artics, Malvern is very likely operating it. So no 198E.

[Gil]

The 194 is apparently already programmed on the destination signs. It's been mention in an report for accessibility transit for the game that was released late last year. Considering it might run artics, Malvern is very likely operating it. So no 198E.

What does the 194 display? If it's been assigned as a Pan Am route, there's still the theoretical option of running the 198E. You have 194 and 197 available and three designated Pan Am routes. Setting aside the nature of the last 200-series route, the only other place to go if they want unique route numbers is down into the 180s.

[Xtrazsteve]

What does the 194 display? If it's been assigned as a Pan Am route, there's still the theoretical option of running the 198E. You have 194 and 197 available and three designated Pan Am routes. Setting aside the nature of the last 200-series route, the only other place to go if they want unique route numbers is down into the 180s.

There is a photo by Lex Reid on flicker with the 194 sign.

[nfitz]

There is a photo by Lex Reid on flicker with the 194 sign.

Does one need to be cryptic?

194 Aquatic Centre Rocket. The map that Metrolinx released last month shows that it goes from Don Mills station to the University of Toronto Scarborough. The map also shows the existing routes (198, 38, and 95). The only other TTC route that jumps out at me that isn't normally in service is the 193 Exhibition Rocket.

[FlyerD901]

Isn't that just an event at Skydome? How does it differ from any other sold-out Skydome event? Worst it seems to do is put a few more people on the King and Spadina streetcars - most walk to Union, where the subway trains can handle the load well.

I don't know, but that's what I've been told, and to get ready for.

I haven't heard Skydome in a while, that was good.

[Xtrazsteve]

Here's the accessibility report I was referring to:

https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2015/February_25/Reports/ACAT_Dec_18_2014_Minutes.pdf

The Skydome isn't listed as a major venue.

They expect most people to walk and offer accessible shuttles to places where it's necessary like the 406 to The Maple Leafs Garden since College isn't accessible.

Route 408 is reserved for an accessible shuttle to UTSC. That's why the temporary shuttle between Dufferin and Dundas West is called 409.

[nfitz]

Here's the accessibility report I was referring to:

https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2015/February_25/Reports/ACAT_Dec_18_2014_Minutes.pdf

The Skydome isn't listed as a major venue.

It's not even mentioned in the TTC report on special Pan-Am Service, other than being an other venue (like Welland and Oshawa).

Presumably that's why there is a special sign-up for the ceremonies. I assume this is done for other big events (there always seems to be a lot of extra streetcars at Exhibition loop after a sold-out event at BMO Field). Though I'm still a bit unsure on where you need to provide extra service for the ceremonies.

[williampaul]

Speaking of questions:

trying to update some general information for the files:

all help / info gratefully accepted

1) When was the last time TTC had special 2-week board for the Exhibition?

I think sometime in the 90's but not sure

2) some time around 2001-1003 the 12 buses were changed to run SB on VP right to KR intersection and then turn right. (Since inception in 1968, ALL SB 12's had run EB on Meadow, SB on Blantyre and then EB on KR

I cannot find a reference to this change anywhere - no Rider News, TTC way back internet etc etc etc

3) ST George was a flat-wall? end of the line days? Eglinton was a north end wall, obviously no tail tracks until the line was extended north to Yrk Mills etc.

Islington was a west end wall and Warden was the field behind the mall(the bridge was built from the start). Woodbine had about 300ft of track to the east and then a wooden wall and I'm not sure about Keele?

here is JFB photo of Westbound tunnel looking east from Woodbine platform Feb 19/1966