Société de transport de Montréal

[FelixINX]

10 hours ago, Gerbil said:

To mitigate the bus shortage, the STM will be leasing 50 coaches starting January 6th.

In addition, they're going to be subcontracting some of the maintenance.

http://stm.info/fr/infos/etat-du-service/plan-daction-pour-offrir-le-service-bus-promis

It's a great short term solution, but I really hope they fix this maintenance problem ASAP (perhaps St. Denis reopening will help).

@Frozen Yogurt here is what the STM says: Leasing of 50 coach buses to provide enough vehicles to ensure the planned service as of January 6, when the REM mitigation measures will be implemented. For the 968? At least not on the 964, as it will slow boarding.

The maintenance will probably be done by the lessor, because STM employees don't have training on coaches.

[Rakkim]

route 97-mont royal to come with route modification. Since Pierre-de-coubertin Av. will be a one way towards Pie-Ix in a couple of days. Anyone knows what street route #97 will take?

[Frozen Yogurt]

On 12/5/2019 at 7:57 AM, FelixINX said:

here is what the STM says: Leasing of 50 coach buses to provide enough vehicles to ensure the planned service as of January 6, when the REM mitigation measures will be implemented. For the 968? At least not on the 964, as it will slow boarding.

Yes but 1) my understanding of what they say is along the line of "we will need more buses in January because of the REM shuttles, hence we borrowed 50 coaches", they didn't explicitly say these coaches go to the REM shuttles... 2) the last time the STM borrowed the coaches to help with bus shortage, yet the coaches went to the 747. I don't see any route fitting with coaches except the 747. Or maybe some really express routes like the 411 but any urban route will be a bad fit.

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Yesterday I passed through TMR, some 165/16 bus stops have the red "chemises" on them, seems like the 919 signs are already up. It's the 2nd time some of these stop flags got "rebranded" since August.

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Today I passed by O'Brien, I'm quite puzzled because alongside the 117 stop flag are stop flags of the 121... why would the 121 pass through O'Brien? I saw the 121 flag at the stops O'Brien/Côte-Vertu (55657) and Rochon/O'Brien (55634)... Anyone know why?

[FelixINX]

6 hours ago, Frozen Yogurt said:

Yes but 1) my understanding of what they say is along the line of "we will need more buses in January because of the REM shuttles, hence we borrowed 50 coaches", they didn't explicitly say these coaches go to the REM shuttles... 2) the last time the STM borrowed the coaches to help with bus shortage, yet the coaches went to the 747. I don't see any route fitting with coaches except the 747. Or maybe some really express routes like the 411 but any urban route will be a bad fit.

That makes more sense. La Presse wrote in article this morning about these coaches and apparently they don't know where they'll be in service: https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/grand-montreal/201912/06/01-5252788-la-stm-loue-50-autocars-pour-les-naufrages-des-trains-de-banlieue.php

6 hours ago, Frozen Yogurt said:

Yesterday I passed through TMR, some 165/16 bus stops have the red "chemises" on them, seems like the 919 signs are already up. It's the 2nd time some of these stop flags got "rebranded" since August.

Same here on Gouin. But 968 was already installed back in April 2018. Also, the "chemises" doesn't include the 968, but it is still running on weekend.

There is also a possibility that the 968 will be a real express bus, not making any stop on Gouin (this is the information we have, as a train user, but not what is on the planibus and GTFS).

[jge0364]

7 hours ago, Frozen Yogurt said:

Today I passed by O'Brien, I'm quite puzzled because alongside the 117 stop flag are stop flags of the 121... why would the 121 pass through O'Brien? I saw the 121 flag at the stops O'Brien/Côte-Vertu (55657) and Rochon/O'Brien (55634)... Anyone know why?

Could it be the starting point of a 121 school or industriel extra? that specific stop flag doesn't have the stop code on it otherwise, it would have the stop code on it (Take stops along René-Levesque in downtown as an example). There are a few examples of stop flags of industriel or school without the stop code on it such as the one in front of my school and the one at Émile-Bélanger/Poirier. Plus, there seems to be some small text written on the stop flag if you look closely, another hint of a stop for a school or industriel extra.

[Frozen Yogurt]

1 hour ago, FelixINX said:

That makes more sense. La Presse wrote in article this morning about these coaches and apparently they don't know where they'll be in service: https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/grand-montreal/201912/06/01-5252788-la-stm-loue-50-autocars-pour-les-naufrages-des-trains-de-banlieue.php

Same here on Gouin. But 968 was already installed back in April 2018. Also, the "chemises" doesn't include the 968, but it is still running on weekend.

There is also a possibility that the 968 will be a real express bus, not making any stop on Gouin (this is the information we have, as a train user, but not what is on the planibus and GTFS).

Thanks for the article. Seems like there are still lots of tension between the administration and the union, I hope they sit down together and discuss in friendly terms to find real solutions, not antagonizing each other... The last conseil d'administration isn't a good sign... I guess we'll see what will happen.

As for the 968, I have never noticed the stop flags, but did they have the mention "Friday nights and weekends only" or something like that? maybe the stop flags are changed to remove that.

The STM said that there could be adjustments beyond January, and they will follow the situation closely. The GTFS is released for so long but schedules and planibuses on the STM website are still not up, maybe a hint there could still be adjustments...

30 minutes ago, jge0364 said:

Could it be the starting point of a 121 school or industriel extra? that specific stop flag doesn't have the stop code on it otherwise, it would have the stop code on it (Take stops along René-Levesque in downtown as an example). There are a few examples of stop flags of industriel or school without the stop code on it such as the one in front of my school and the one at Émile-Bélanger/Poirier. Plus, there seems to be some small text written on the stop flag if you look closely, another hint of a stop for a school or industriel extra.

Thanks. I need to check the text the next time I pass there. The sign must be very new, because in my memory I have only ever seen the 117 sign, never the 121 one, hence my confusion.

[FelixINX]

9 hours ago, Frozen Yogurt said:

As for the 968, I have never noticed the stop flags, but did they have the mention "Friday nights and weekends only" or something like that? maybe the stop flags are changed to remove that.

The STM said that there could be adjustments beyond January, and they will follow the situation closely. The GTFS is released for so long but schedules and planibuses on the STM website are still not up, maybe a hint there could still be adjustments...

They were no mention of limited service on the stop flags, so I don't understand the change.

Planibus for Trainbus are online since last Friday on the Info-Mobilité page. For the 968, all stop on Gouin are served and I just confirmed this information with the STM.

I'm still septic about the travel time, wich is about 30-35 min from Roxboro-Pierrefonds to Côte-Vertu. For a normal car, it takes 30 minutes. Even with reserved lanes on Gouin and Côte-Vertu, the bus will still be stuck in traffic before these lanes and will still have to stop everywhere on Gouin. I also have concerns about quick turnaround time at Côte-Vertu.

[SMS]

I don't understand why the 964 has no frequent service southbound. I guess they expect everyone to cram the 64??

The 964 also seems to be the only free service offered.

Finally the 919 schedule notes that transfer is available to abolished route 435 at Jean-Talon/CDN but no mention of 465?

On 12/8/2019 at 2:54 PM, Frozen Yogurt said:

Today I passed by O'Brien, I'm quite puzzled because alongside the 117 stop flag are stop flags of the 121... why would the 121 pass through O'Brien? I saw the 121 flag at the stops O'Brien/Côte-Vertu (55657) and Rochon/O'Brien (55634)... Anyone know why?

Does it say zone de regulation?

Years ago, the 535 had a stop on Bedford just before CDN. Presumably, it was a staging point for AM tripper runs before heading south.

[Frozen Yogurt]

4 minutes ago, SMS said:

I don't understand why the 964 has no frequent service southbound. I guess they expect everyone to cram the 64??

Seems like there are multiple departures  at the same time, because on the GTFS data I saw at least 4 southbound departures at 5:30. 

10 minutes ago, SMS said:

Does it say zone de regulation?

Oh interesting! I will check that.

Just a weird thought, maybe it's extras for Du Ruisseau train station? There's not really any good service there except the 117 and (135? is that useful?).

On 12/9/2019 at 8:35 AM, FelixINX said:

I'm still septic about the travel time, wich is about 30-35 min from Roxboro-Pierrefonds to Côte-Vertu. For a normal car, it takes 30 minutes. Even with reserved lanes on Gouin and Côte-Vertu, the bus will still be stuck in traffic before these lanes and will still have to stop everywhere on Gouin. I also have concerns about quick turnaround time at Côte-Vertu.

Very interesting. The 919 has the same run time and routing morning and afternoon, 14 minutes  (eastbound) from Namur to TMR. In AM it can probably make it, but in PM the congestion around Namur station is very bad, hence the different AM/PM routing for the 115... Maybe they will adjust, realizing Décarie is a big mess. But for the 968, I wonder how many people get on at the "regular" stops? Maybe these stops don't slow down the bus as much?

18 minutes ago, SMS said:

Finally the 919 schedule notes that transfer is available to abolished route 435 at Jean-Talon/CDN but no mention of 465?

The 919 doesn't even stop at Jean-Talon/CDN. Its last stop westbound is Laird/Kenilworth, and first stop eastbound is Laird/Moncrieff. Seems like it's to prevent people from taking this route just for destinations on Jean-Talon.

[FelixINX]

7 hours ago, SMS said:

I don't understand why the 964 has no frequent service southbound. I guess they expect everyone to cram the 64??

The 964 also seems to be the only free service offered.

The schedule is not very intuitive, but as @Frozen Yogurt  said, there is multiple departures for each train. For example, the 8:00 train gets 16 departures. Wouldn't it be better to but 1 bus each minute on the schedule? 3 buses will board at the same time and I guess that a Chef d'opérations will control the departure.

964 is free probably because it needs fast boarding, also through the rear door. The train is also free.

6 hours ago, Frozen Yogurt said:

But for the 968, I wonder how many people get on at the "regular" stops? Maybe these stops don't slow down the bus as much?

With the current service pattern, the 968 is really popular as a faster alternative to the 64+68 or 468. The biggest "regular" stop is probably Gouin / Alexander.

And I might have found an answer to the stop flags of the 968. The service will now be in the 10 min max network, but they could have added stickers instead of new signs...

[Frozen Yogurt]

6 hours ago, FelixINX said:

With the current service pattern, the 968 is really popular as a faster alternative to the 64+68 or 468. The biggest "regular" stop is probably Gouin / Alexander.

I see. From Roxboro to Sunnybrooke there are only 3 stops, so probably it's better serving them. But beyond Sunnybrooke the stops are more frequent. Perhaps we can cut some of them. I think the STM probably did the job of evaluating whether saving some run time from cutting the stops (and ask people to walk further to get to the 968) or picking up these passengers is better. They evoked the same reason for not making the 465/480 "true" express routes. To be honest, I think they're right, in an idealized system where boarding and traffic light waiting time is short compared to the journey time, the limited stop express loses its usefulness. But as it stands now (very slow boarding for most 10 max routes...) it's perhaps in the better interest to introduce some faster limited-stop service, until the service speed improvement measures are implemented.

Now, it's getting quite personal I guess... After taking buses on a few routes over a couple of years, I personally think that the biggest reasons that drove passengers away in the past few years are 1) unreliable service and 2) slow service. For 1) the iBus certainly helps, and the STM is trying to improve the situation. But for 2) there aren't too much improvements done except designating some bus lanes scattered here and there and introducing new card readers. STM buses lose a tremendous amount of time (and productivity) (especially the 10 max ones) picking up passengers and waiting for the traffic light.

It's maybe only me lacking patience, but I tend to get pissed off when the bus dwells for such a long time picking up passengers, is ready to leave the stop and then the light turns yellow and red intersection after intersection... but I don't think I'm alone in thinking this.

So, I think that transponders and cigarette lights should be part of the solution, along with all door boarding and faster card readers (being partially implemented). For some really high ridership stops, if space permits, I think Pie-IX style pre-paid stops could definitely help a lot. Shaving running time off buses means that more service could be provided using the same amount of vehicles and drivers, so it's a long term gain.

Quote

And I might have found an answer to the stop flags of the 968. The service will now be in the 10 min max network, but they could have added stickers instead of new signs...

I don't understand, why 10 min max network? Isn't the definition being having a 10 min max service from 6-14 on "am rush direction", 14-21 on the other direction or 6-21 on both directions? The planibus clearly contradicts this...?

[En Transit]

6 hours ago, FelixINX said:

13 hours ago, Frozen Yogurt said:

With the current service pattern, the 968 is really popular as a faster alternative to the 64+68 or 468. The biggest "regular" stop is probably Gouin / Alexander.

it also saves me from taking the 470 and 205 on weekends. 

[Gerbil]

Seems like this external maintenance contract is really helping out:

We're up to 1315 buses available today, compared to 1247 last Monday(when they announced it). Haven't noticed a significant difference in terms of cancellations on my route though.

[FelixINX]

The STM and the union reached an agreement regarding the Gallant coaches. The 919 and 968 will be served by 30 coaches, based at Stinson (apparently with St. Laurent staff). The 964 will be served by 16 regular buses.

http://www.stm.info/fr/presse/communiques/2019/mesures-d-attenuation-pour-le-rem---la-stm-et-ses-employes-seront-au-rendez-vous-en-janvier-2020

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19 hours ago, Frozen Yogurt said:

To be honest, I think they're right, in an idealized system where boarding and traffic light waiting time is short compared to the journey time, the limited stop express loses its usefulness.

I agree with you, in most cases limited stop express is useless (the 68 and 468 are always together...) But the 968 has a different mission: replace a train service. I'm sure that most of the person boarding outside of train stations are not current train users. Capacity wise we might be fine in January but when the train completely shut down in mid 2021, 8 minute bus service will probably not be enough. And a stopping service with coaches is probably not a good idea.

19 hours ago, Frozen Yogurt said:

It's maybe only me lacking patience, but I tend to get pissed off when the bus dwells for such a long time picking up passengers, is ready to leave the stop and then the light turns yellow and red intersection after intersection... but I don't think I'm alone in thinking this.

Same here, especially when I miss my connection because of one passenger at a yellow light...

My understanding is that the STM is ready for "intelligent light corridors"  but the city doesn't have the infrastructure yet.

19 hours ago, Frozen Yogurt said:

I don't understand, why 10 min max network? Isn't the definition being having a 10 min max service from 6-14 on "am rush direction", 14-21 on the other direction or 6-21 on both directions? The planibus clearly contradicts this...?

Sorry my bad. 10 min max is all day, not only rush hour. But they started to remove some "chemises" and the change is... useless. Green to blue and bye bye the trainbus mention.

[Frozen Yogurt]

On 12/11/2019 at 3:44 PM, FelixINX said:

The STM and the union reached an agreement regarding the Gallant coaches. The 919 and 968 will be served by 30 coaches, based at Stinson (apparently with St. Laurent staff). The 964 will be served by 16 regular buses.

http://www.stm.info/fr/presse/communiques/2019/mesures-d-attenuation-pour-le-rem---la-stm-et-ses-employes-seront-au-rendez-vous-en-janvier-2020

Seems like they have finally leased 30 coaches instead of 50. According to the STM, the coaches  will not have fareboxes, passengers have to be seated and buckled up, and luggage compartments will not be used (obviously). See Today's sightings, I have spotted at least 2 of them on the road today.

I saw a 919 sign at the Namur métro (stop 50507) a few days ago (the chemise was not covering the entire sign) and for some reason, the 919 is indicated with a  green background.

In other news... the January 2020 planibus for all routes are up now, change the URL to "planibus_janv2020" to consult them. Other than the 919, 964, 968 and service increases promised on the 92, 121 and 165, I don't see any other major changes. The schedule on the STM website will be available next Monday.

[Blue Hybrid Bus]

On 12/8/2019 at 2:54 PM, Frozen Yogurt said:

Today I passed by O'Brien, I'm quite puzzled because alongside the 117 stop flag are stop flags of the 121... why would the 121 pass through O'Brien? I saw the 121 flag at the stops O'Brien/Côte-Vertu (55657) and Rochon/O'Brien (55634)... Anyone know why?

I saw another stop flag for the 121 at Henri-Bourassa/de Londres.

[eclair14]

56 minutes ago, Blue Hybrid Bus said:

I saw another stop flag for the 121 at Henri-Bourassa/de Londres.

Could it be due to related work for the Côte-Vertu / Sauvé BRT OR REM project and a future detour that would be in place ?

[Blue Hybrid Bus]

On 12/14/2019 at 1:02 PM, eclair14 said:

Could it be due to related work for the Côte-Vertu / Sauvé BRT OR REM project and a future detour that would be in place ?

That would be a pretty big detour for the 121. I think there will be 121 extras to connect Bois-Franc, du Ruisseau and boul. Côte-Vertu together due to the REM project (similar to what @Frozen Yogurt mentioned earlier), as the bus frequencies for both the 117 and 135 are very low. We will see what happens next board period.

--

The STM has completed their article on the expansion of three bus garages (the article was initially incomplete in some areas). Now there are pictures showing what the garages would look like after expansion. I noticed that there are articulated buses placed in the Saint-Laurent and Anjou bus garage pictures:

http://www.stm.info/en/about/major_projects/major-bus-projects/solutions-300-new-buses/three-existing-bus-garages-expansion#id_deuxieme

[Gerbil]

They released an updated set of GTFS data yesterday. 919 and 968 are now listed as SN routes.

Everything seems nearly identical for LS (trips seem the same but with new numbers at a constant offset). However, a few departures seem to have been deleted. Namely, the 90-E departures at 7:22 and 8:15 (Elmhurst).

However, there is a large gap in trip_id's where those departures were, and now it displays a 15 minute gap between buses which violates the 10 minutes max guarantee. So it could be a mistake.

[FelixINX]

2 hours ago, Gerbil said:

They released an updated set of GTFS data yesterday. 919 and 968 are now listed as SN routes.

919, 964 and 968 will probably be cancelled for the next board period, see https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/caisse-postpones-mount-royal-tunnel-closure-until-spring.

Since some coaches are already there and the contract is already signed, I guess the STM will keep them and use it on others lines?

[Frozen Yogurt]

4 hours ago, FelixINX said:

919, 964 and 968 will probably be cancelled for the next board period, see https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/caisse-postpones-mount-royal-tunnel-closure-until-spring.

Since some coaches are already there and the contract is already signed, I guess the STM will keep them and use it on others lines?

Thanks for sharing this news! If I recall the lease is for six months, so we'll need them from April onwards (but by that time the bus shortage should be sorted out already, I guess?). That's very interesting development for REM!

Also it's not only the shuttles, the schedule on the 92, 121 and 165 completely changed as well. I don't think they will be reverted, but it's good for local riders!

If these coaches  do stay for January, I guess we can see some running on the 747?

7 hours ago, Gerbil said:

They released an updated set of GTFS data yesterday. 919 and 968 are now listed as SN routes.

St-Denis's data is absolutely messed up... How can I figure out the runs? It's completely out of whack... Check out this for example. https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~jread3/cgi-bin/runsearch.cgi?tripid=213359223

[Frozen Yogurt]

This pertains to the REM but it's also STM related... so I guess I'll leave it here.

According to Mobilité Montréal, the REM mitigation measures is pushed to April: https://mobilitemontreal.gouv.qc.ca/mise-en-oeuvre-du-reseau-transitoire-de-transport-collectif-reportee-au-30-mars-2020/ So no 919, 964 nor (Mon-Fri PM) 968 for January.

And according to this Le Devoir article (https://www.ledevoir.com/politique/montreal/569273/la-fermeture-du-tunnel-du-mont-royal-repoussee-au-30-mars-2020), the STM pushed the contract with Galland to end March... But by then do we still need the coaches?

Quote

« Nous avons été en mesure de repousser le contrat des autocars avec le fournisseur Galland jusqu’au 30 mars », a indiqué la porte-parole de la STM, Isabelle Tremblay, par courriel. « Nos équipes étaient prêtes pour la mise en place des mesures d’atténuation au début janvier et elles le seront également le 30 mars 2020. »

Les chauffeurs seront affectés au service d’autres lignes de bus du réseau habituel, a-t-elle ajouté.

 

[FelixINX]

15 minutes ago, Frozen Yogurt said:

This pertains to the REM but it's also STM related... so I guess I'll leave it here.

According to Mobilité Montréal, the REM mitigation measures is pushed to April: https://mobilitemontreal.gouv.qc.ca/mise-en-oeuvre-du-reseau-transitoire-de-transport-collectif-reportee-au-30-mars-2020/ So no 919, 964 nor (Mon-Fri PM) 968 for January.

And according to this Le Devoir article (https://www.ledevoir.com/politique/montreal/569273/la-fermeture-du-tunnel-du-mont-royal-repoussee-au-30-mars-2020), the STM pushed the contract with Galland to end March... But by then do we still need the coaches?

 

I'm still waiting for a new GTFS set. I am also wondering if they will adjust all buses connecting to the Deux-Montagnes line. For example, my local line, the 205, had departures adjusted to the shuttle train, but it doesn't always work now.

I don't expect the bus shortage to be finished before summer 2020. Yes St. Denis reopening will help but there is 3 CT receiving buses while still in expansion.

[Blue Hybrid Bus]

20 hours ago, FelixINX said:

I don't expect the bus shortage to be finished before summer 2020. Yes St. Denis reopening will help but there is 3 CT receiving buses while still in expansion.

I would like to comment that since St. Laurent is losing three bus routes to Stinson next year (115, 171 and 485), the bus shortage situation should somewhat improve for St. Laurent at least as they will probably require less buses to meet the rush hour demand for SL routes. The loss of bus routes and the CT St. Laurent expansion should balance out. Of course, I'm only describing one area of the bus shortage.

It would be interesting to see how each CT is impacted from bus shortages.

[MTL66]

The 747 which was transferred over to St-Laurent will remain there for the time being, as an agreement was already signed by the union and the STM. The 919 and 968 will run out of Stinson in exchange as Stinson is the only garage with big enough doors to accommodate coach buses.