TheAverageJoe

CP Power

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So how many SD40-2 do CP have left? and also how many SD60's are left since I know some were subleased to Indiana Railroad and some returned to the lesser (CIT)? Also has anyone heard of an X number of SD40-2 going on lease to Mexico with the option to buy them?

Also any new deals with NRE to buy all surplus/dead hulks power in exchange for more GP38-2 rebuilds?

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So how many SD40-2 do CP have left? and also how many SD60's are left since I know some were subleased to Indiana Railroad and some returned to the lesser (CIT)? Also has anyone heard of an X number of SD40-2 going on lease to Mexico with the option to buy them?

Also any new deals with NRE to buy all surplus/dead hulks power in exchange for more GP38-2 rebuilds?

Mike can fill in the rest of the info on the SD40-2's, but eventually all of SOO's SD60's will be returned to the lessor. The only 710 power left on CPR will be the 5 SD60M's which were bought, and the 61 SD9043MAC's.

I haven't heard of any more 4-axle power coming other than what's left of the Green Goat order, be it 4 more units or 31 more units. Still no more info on the selling off of 1700 either.

Dan

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Mike can fill in the rest of the info on the SD40-2's, but eventually all of SOO's SD60's will be returned to the lessor. The only 710 power left on CPR will be the 5 SD60M's which were bought, and the 61 SD9043MAC's.

I haven't heard of any more 4-axle power coming other than what's left of the Green Goat order, be it 4 more units or 31 more units. Still no more info on the selling off of 1700 either.

Dan

Its sad to see the SD60's go, they should have kept them and gotten rid of more SD40-2's . Also is there any plans to repower the SD9043MAC's to 6000 HP?. Im surprised EMD didnt offer them a good deal to lease the 41 ex UP SD90MAC's that UP returned after their lease but KCS picked them up. It also maybe that CP lately has only sticked with GE after I think they werent happy with their SD9043MAC's/SD90MAC's

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So how many SD40-2 do CP have left? and also how many SD60's are left since I know some were subleased to Indiana Railroad and some returned to the lesser (CIT)? Also has anyone heard of an X number of SD40-2 going on lease to Mexico with the option to buy them?

Also any new deals with NRE to buy all surplus/dead hulks power in exchange for more GP38-2 rebuilds?

CP has still big numbers of SD40-2's in the 57-, 58-, 59- and 6000 series. The 5400's are all but gone (with the exception of the 549x SD40M-2's and a few others in storage for sale) the 5500 SD40's are all retired, there's a few 5565+ SD40-2's left, the 5600's are undergoing purging, and the 5700 series will be next. Doesn't mean that 58's, 59's and 60's won't be retired as well.

There's about a dozen going to Mexico on lease with an option to buy. Mostly 5600, some 57 and a few 58 series. I don't have the list handy.

The SD60's, of SOO 6000-6020 a few were sold to INRI (Indiana RR) and the rest went to CITX (there was one or two running on CN recently) I've heard SOO 6021+ are all owned by CP.

(FYI in case anyone gets confused, CP 6000's are all SD40-2's and SOO 6000's are all SD60's)

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Its sad to see the SD60's go, they should have kept them and gotten rid of more SD40-2's . Also is there any plans to repower the SD9043MAC's to 6000 HP?. Im surprised EMD didnt offer them a good deal to lease the 41 ex UP SD90MAC's that UP returned after their lease but KCS picked them up. It also maybe that CP lately has only sticked with GE after I think they werent happy with their SD9043MAC's/SD90MAC's

CP's lease contract with the SOO SD60's was up and didn't bother to renew it, why ? CP's plan had them to buy 100 new ES44AC's from GE, this will also free up the remaining CP style CEFX's since CP isn't power short until traffic picks up again...thats why you won't see the CEFX 1001 - 1025 series locomotives as they went to BNSF.

And plans on repowering the SD9043MAC's isn't going to happen, why bother with 6,000 HP and a troublesome 16V265H engine, thats been pleaging CP for years.

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CP has still big numbers of SD40-2's in the 57-, 58-, 59- and 6000 series. The 5400's are all but gone (with the exception of the 549x SD40M-2's and a few others in storage for sale) the 5500 SD40's are all retired, there's a few 5565+ SD40-2's left, the 5600's are undergoing purging, and the 5700 series will be next. Doesn't mean that 58's, 59's and 60's won't be retired as well.

There's about a dozen going to Mexico on lease with an option to buy. Mostly 5600, some 57 and a few 58 series. I don't have the list handy.

The SD60's, of SOO 6000-6020 a few were sold to INRI (Indiana RR) and the rest went to CITX (there was one or two running on CN recently) I've heard SOO 6021+ are all owned by CP.

(FYI in case anyone gets confused, CP 6000's are all SD40-2's and SOO 6000's are all SD60's)

Which Mexican railroad is it???

CP's lease contract with the SOO SD60's was up and didn't bother to renew it, why ? CP's plan had them to buy 100 new ES44AC's from GE, this will also free up the remaining CP style CEFX's since CP isn't power short until traffic picks up again...thats why you won't see the CEFX 1001 - 1025 series locomotives as they went to BNSF.

And plans on repowering the SD9043MAC's isn't going to happen, why bother with 6,000 HP and a troublesome 16V265H engine, thats been pleaging CP for years.

Do you mean CP has another order of ES44AC from the past two orders that they have received?

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Do you mean CP has another order of ES44AC from the past two orders that they have received?

I forgot to mention, they put in the order for 20 more ES44AC's from GE coming in May of next year on top of the current 80 ES44AC's they will receive. 80 + 20 = 100 :lol:

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I forgot to mention, they put in the order for 20 more ES44AC's from GE coming in May of next year on top of the current 80 ES44AC's they will receive. 80 + 20 = 100 :lol:

so thats 160 ES44AC all together than?

I forgot to mention, they put in the order for 20 more ES44AC's from GE coming in May of next year on top of the current 80 ES44AC's they will receive. 80 + 20 = 100 :lol:

so thats 160 ES44AC all together than?

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so thats 160 ES44AC all together than?

I'm assuming your are mentioning the other 60 ES44AC's (8700 - 8759) which were bought before, then yes, CP will have 160 ES44AC's on there roster.

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I'm assuming your are mentioning the other 60 ES44AC's (8700 - 8759) which were bought before, then yes, CP will have 160 ES44AC's on there roster.

yes im :lol:

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The SD60's, of SOO 6000-6020 a few were sold to INRI (Indiana RR) and the rest went to CITX (there was one or two running on CN recently) I've heard SOO 6021+ are all owned by CP.

All of the "spartan cab" SD60's are leased....which is why they were delivered with spartan cabs and not M cabs like the 5 SD60M's...and IIRC are all under a 15 year lease, meaning that the second batch of locos has been running under an (presumably) HPH agreement since March. The third batch was delivered in October, so whatever agreement they have now has only been in power for a couple of weeks.

Also is there any plans to repower the SD9043MAC's to 6000 HP?. Im surprised EMD didnt offer them a good deal to lease the 41 ex UP SD90MAC's that UP returned after their lease but KCS picked them up. It also maybe that CP lately has only sticked with GE after I think they werent happy with their SD9043MAC's/SD90MAC's

CPR doesn't like the SD90MAC-H's it has already....why would they lease more?

To be honest, I'm very surprised that they haven't already tried to cut their losses and get rid of the 4 of them. After all, they're 4 very unique and very different locos than anything else in the fleet.

Dan

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CP's lease contract with the SOO SD60's was up and didn't bother to renew it, why ? CP's plan had them to buy 100 new ES44AC's from GE, this will also free up the remaining CP style CEFX's since CP isn't power short until traffic picks up again...thats why you won't see the CEFX 1001 - 1025 series locomotives as they went to BNSF.

And plans on repowering the SD9043MAC's isn't going to happen, why bother with 6,000 HP and a troublesome 16V265H engine, thats been pleaging CP for years.

You mean the CEFX's Locomotive, the one with the Blue and White Striped Livery? I saw one like three weeks ago. So that's why they are disappearing to BNSF.

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The SD9043MACs currently have EMD's 710G engine, while the 4 "Super-Macs" use the 265H. Even though they were build with conversion intended, it would require quite a bit of work, and the 265 so far has proven to be less then reliable (based on CP's 9300-9303 SD90MAC-H 's). For a time The Troublesome Foursome seemed to spend more time in the shop then on the road (based on reports from a group I've been reading).

Also, most RR's seem to be content with locomotives in the 4000-5000hp range at the moment. 6000hp seems to be the current horsepower peak. Then there's the whole how much hp is enough dilemma, 9000hp? 12,000hp? A six- or eight-axle 24,000hp locomotive? How much of that power can one locomotive make efficient use of? But we won't get into that today :lol:

To be honest, I'm very surprised that they haven't already tried to cut their losses and get rid of the 4 of them. After all, they're 4 very unique and very different locos than anything else in the fleet.

Dan

I'm pretty sure most of the work done on them is paid for/done under some kind of agreement with EMD so they can help work the bugs out. Otherwise I'd like to think CP would be banging on EMD's door to get something that WORKS :lol:

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I'm pretty sure most of the work done on them is paid for/done under some kind of agreement with EMD so they can help work the bugs out. Otherwise I'd like to think CP would be banging on EMD's door to get something that WORKS :lol:

Too bad that's not likely the case....GE has been the number 1 builder for the past 10 years for a reason, and it isn't just their financing.

Dan

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CP has tended to be a one or the other buyer for many years.

When first dieselizing CP split the orders with GM units running west of Winnipeg and Alco's running east.

It was rare to see GP9's in Ontario and RS10/18's in Alberta.

When the M630/M636 units couldn't handle the grueling mountain coal and grain trains CP started buying SD40's only for 6-axle power. They were reluctant to take SD50's and forced GM to build the SD40-2F's.

The SD60's were SOO choosen when St. Paul called the shots as CP only owned 56% of SOO Line.

GM was given the SD90 order and the many issues with those units gave GE a chance with the 9500's.

As with the SD40-2's, CP found an engine that could work anywhere on the system and kept buying GE's.

I was told by a Chicago "know-it all" that originally the 8500's were to be SOO lettered and would replace the SD60's but image weary Calgary wanted the CP red and traffic surges prevented the SD60's from leaving at that time.

As for the SD90's 9300 - 9303 they don't wander far from their Winnipeg home and I believe the GM service contract is what keeps them on the roster - GM likely is taking the bullet for it's operational weaknesses with the SD90's. Further, the FRA cards expired on all these units and CP is unwilling to put extra funding into them - likely they will be put out to pasture when GM and CP redo their current warranty arrangements, whenever that is.

The "new" CP buys new power; if this was still the "old" CP we likely would see many used BN and UP SD40-2's running on this road - how many of you remember CP 5428 in yellow and CP 4652 in Guilford grey is still with us.

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The "new" CP buys new power; if this was still the "old" CP we likely would see many used BN and UP SD40-2's running on this road - how many of you remember CP 5428 in yellow and CP 4652 in Guilford grey is still with us.

...and the ugly trio of 5447, 5448 and 5449, nor the KCS sisters that were sold to NRE still in KCS patched paint.

Ah the good ol' days, when everything wasn't GE...

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...and the ugly trio of 5447, 5448 and 5449, nor the KCS sisters that were sold to NRE still in KCS patched paint.

Ah the good ol' days, when everything wasn't GE...

They should have kept all the SOO SD60's and the leased CIT's AC4400's and SD4390MAC's. Some of the SD40-2's should have been rebuild into SD38-2 for yard and transfer service

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They should have kept all the SOO SD60's and the leased CIT's AC4400's and SD4390MAC's. Some of the SD40-2's should have been rebuild into SD38-2 for yard and transfer service

Only 20 that make up the first batch of SD60's are gone, 6020+ still remain. Too bad, they seemed like good power.

IIRC CP is using SD40-2's in hump service in various places. They're mostly ex SOO 6600's, and the 10 SD40M-2 MK rebuilds.

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Only 20 that make up the first batch of SD60's are gone, 6020+ still remain. Too bad, they seemed like good power.

IIRC CP is using SD40-2's in hump service in various places. They're mostly ex SOO 6600's, and the 10 SD40M-2 MK rebuilds.

Yes the SD60's seem like good pulling power plus more HP but isnt the SD40-2's for Yard service to much wasted HP ??? also arent the SD38's better for yard/hump and transfer service?

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Yes the SD60's seem like good pulling power plus more HP but isnt the SD40-2's for Yard service to much wasted HP ??? also arent the SD38's better for yard/hump and transfer service?

RR's prefer SD38-2 for yard/hump service because there is no costly turbo to service. They tend to wear out quicker in yard service. An SD38 (2000hp) is basically an SD40 (3000hp) without a turbo.

UP and other RR's have deturbo'ed 40's for yard service, or locked the turbo in place.

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Not practical.

Many of CP's yards are cramped with tight trackage. 6-axle units can't really work the yards without difficulty. This is obviously not the case at the larger facilities such as in Toronto, Calgary or Montreal, where they use 2 6-axle units as hump sets.

They will need more 4-axle power soon though....those GP9's can only be rebuilt so many times....

Dan

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Not practical.

Many of CP's yards are cramped with tight trackage. 6-axle units can't really work the yards without difficulty. This is obviously not the case at the larger facilities such as in Toronto, Calgary or Montreal, where they use 2 6-axle units as hump sets.

They will need more 4-axle power soon though....those GP9's can only be rebuilt so many times....

Dan

So what is the deal with the Green Goats that are left? are they gonna end up getting all 35 or what?

Well with those GP9's wasnt that the whole point of that power trade with NRE to get rebuild GP38-2's for local and yard service for the S00

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So what is the deal with the Green Goats that are left? are they gonna end up getting all 35 or what?

The contract has been cancelled, and all of the Goats so far delivered to CPR (1700-1704) are going to be returned to the builder. No more are going to be built and delivered to CPR. 1700 has already been sold to Amtrak as 599.

Well with those GP9's wasnt that the whole point of that power trade with NRE to get rebuild GP38-2's for local and yard service for the S00

As far as I know NRE didn't get any GP9's for the 7 GP38's. The only GP9's that I know about that were "traded in" were the ones to be turned into Goats. But yes, SOO definately did need the smaller power which is why they bought them.

Dan

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On the topic of CP power, 8839 was the third unit of what looked to be 167 on Thursday as it went east on the Oakville Sub.

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