Streetcar News

[Ed T.]

2 hours ago, Tom1122 said:

I wonder who would pay the ticket: The driver or the TTC as a whole?

I would expect TTC policy, like other fleet operators, is "You get the ticket, you pay the ticket." And In addition you would be expected to report it, and you may get to sit down with someone and talk about your driving.

[Turtle]

1 hour ago, Ed T. said:

I would expect TTC policy, like other fleet operators, is "You get the ticket, you pay the ticket." And In addition you would be expected to report it, and you may get to sit down with someone and talk about your driving.

For sure the op has to pay the ticket. It is his ticket on his license affecting his personal insurance rates. Red light camera tickets get charged to the driver eventually, once they figure out who was driving the vehicle at the time.

 

The only time it would be the ttc paying tickets would be parking tickets, but that never happens. You can't ticket a streetcar for stopping or standing in a no stopping zone (Charlotte street, a lot of parliament street or anywhere else where rads or breakdowns wait on street for a truck or for deployment).

 

Oh, for sure there will be "sitting down time" with the boss over this, probably some reassignment for a few days while it is being investigated and decided upon. Wave to the guy when you see him doing rear door boarding in Spadina Station.

 

I see ppl on reddit saying the streetcars don't have to follow the hta since they fall under the "rail act" or whatever tf that is. Bzz, nope. Accidents, speeding tickets, or other hta infractions apply to the personal license of the streetcar op. 6 demerit points and yer gone. Not just pushing a broom gone, gone gone for good if they don't like you.

 

Oh yeah, forgot that lately they are using basically anything to get rid of "problem" employees. So good luck to you if you recently got hired and have family issues as well as performance/attendance issues.

[Bus_Medic]

1 hour ago, Ed T. said:

I would expect TTC policy, like other fleet operators, is "You get the ticket, you pay the ticket." And In addition you would be expected to report it, and you may get to sit down with someone and talk about your driving.

It is. 

[T3G]

8 hours ago, Turtle said:

 

You guys won't like the solution the union suggests for dealing with this:

 

Traditionally, if the streetcar couldn't make it across the intersection because private autos keep taking the room ahead of the streetcar by switching lanes, the streetcar would wait one entire light cycle and then force it's way through regardless if there is enough room to clear the intersection. Unofficial training, and completely violates the hta, but it is a 100' public transit vehicle carrying a bunch of people.

 

So now, they propose to wait nearside until there is at least 110' of room in the lane ahead past the intersection for the streetcar to travel through. If there isn't (there will never be) the streetcar will hold at the intersection until it can travel through and clear it.

 

Max hours of work and ESA plays into this as well btw.

So "sit there and wait til kingdom come" is an official policy?

No wonder no one in this city takes transit seriously.

The King pilot was not nearly as radical as it ought to have been.

[Xtrazsteve]

6 minutes ago, T3G said:

So "sit there and wait til kingdom come" is an official policy?

No wonder no one in this city takes transit seriously.

The King pilot was not nearly as radical as it ought to have been.

Good concept. Terrible execution. It’s the story of all Toronto transit projects

[Turtle]

6 hours ago, T3G said:

So "sit there and wait til kingdom come" is an official policy?

No, official policy comes from management

[T3G]

And management's policy is what? Do I dare hope that they will acknowledge that drivers have to force their way through these lines of cars to keep transit moving and that this cop is nothing more but a power tripping tool?

[Turtle]

2 hours ago, T3G said:

And management's policy is what? Do I dare hope that they will acknowledge that drivers have to force their way through these lines of cars to keep transit moving and that this cop is nothing more but a power tripping tool?

Their policy is clear, forcing your way through is against the rules.

 

The rules are there, that's the kind of stuff some of the very junior ops that have clashed with me here have trouble dealing with.

 

The rules say one thing, and generally the ttc rules/policy agree with the hta. But in practice, you have to bend the rules and interpret them in creative ways to keep the vehicles moving in certain situations. So in this situation, the text from the hta would apply: "unless traffic in front of him or her is moving in a manner that would reasonably lead him or her to believe he or she can clear the intersection before the signal indication changes to a circular red indication". Super annoying in this case (University and King) is that this rule does not apply to turning traffic, and that is stated in the hta.

 

So because of the turning exception in the hta, streetcar lines like Spadina that have their own row and shouldn't be delayed by traffic, get delayed at College, Queen, Richmond, Adelaide, King, Front, Bremner, and Lakeshore. The cops directing traffic at some of those intersections just stand there picking their noses, often having their heads buried deep in their cellphones while running the traffic lights at Bremner, and do eff all about private cars blocking the intersection. But there is a TorontoStar article out there praising the traffic cops for improving traffic flow through Bremner/Spadina by 25% or whatever the article stated.

 

I think I have found a hole in the hta: what if I identify as something other than him/her?

 

The whole system is set up for failure. Lipstick on a pig. If a streetcar operator is ticketed for trying to keep the system moving despite all the ignorant and selfish private vehicle drivers, then let 100 people on a streetcar suffer while they wait for there to be enough room farside for the streetcar to cross the intersection. Private auto, and it seems lately like uber eats cyclists, are more important than mass transit.

[drum118]

I find this odd as both cars are in the service bay at this time with 4604 going in last night after a week on the service track

<https://www.transsee.ca/fleetfind?a=ttc&q=4604&Go=Go>

Must have used an existing car and replace the number of it for 4604

TTC launches brand new streetcars

Sixty new streetcars will be delivered by 2025

Nov. 17, 2023

The first of 60 new Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) streetcars officially entered service today, Fri., Nov. 17, with an inaugural run on the 504 King route. The new streetcars are jointly funded by $568 million in contributions from the federal government, Ontario government, and City of Toronto.

The new vehicles are being produced by Alstom at their Thunder Bay facility. The remaining streetcars will be delivered throughout 2023, 2024 and 2025.

“A thriving Toronto—with reliable and sustainable public transit—is very much a part of our economic plan. Just as creating good-paying, middle-class jobs in Canada and in this city is central to our economic plan,” said Chrystia Freeland, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance. “We are investing in Toronto, and in Toronto’s transit infrastructure. These new made-in-Canada streetcars for the TTC are yet another example of how the people of Toronto have no greater partner than our federal government.”

“Supporting modern, safe, and reliable public transit for Canadians across the country helps build more connected communities, a stronger economy, and a cleaner environment,” said the Honourable Sean Fraser, Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities. “The arrival of these new vehicles ensures that taking a streetcar in Toronto remains comfortable, convenient, and efficient.”

“Expanding reliable public transit options are a key part of the Ontario government's plan to make life easier for people, while supporting good home-grown jobs," said Prabmeet Sarkaria, Ontario Minister of Transportation. “As the new streetcars enter service, it will be faster and easier for commuters in the city to get where they need to go, with more cars and shorter wait times. This is a testament to the strong communities we can build when all three levels of government work together to deliver the critical infrastructure we need for today and our future.”

The TTC’s 2023-2032 Capital Budget and Plan includes a $568 million streetcar program, consisting of 60 additional low-floor streetcars and the reconfiguring of Hillcrest Complex to accommodate the storage of at least 25 streetcars. This program is essential to ensuring the TTC can meet future ridership growth and demand over the coming years.

In May 2021, the federal and Ontario governments each announced up to $180 million toward the TTC Streetcar Program. The remaining $208 million is coming from the City of Toronto.

“Transit has been a priority for me since day one. Increasing the number of streetcars on our roads means shorter wait times, more capacity, and more reliable service for transit users,” said Mayor Olivia Chow. “As Toronto continues to grow and we look for ways to improve peoples’ commutes, we need to continue to work with all levels of government to make more transit options available.”

“Streetcars are a vital part of the TTC and the city, and I am pleased that we are continuing to expand our fleet and plan for ridership growth and increased demand,” said TTC Chair Jamaal Myers. “Our goal is to run a sustainable transit system that our customers can continue to rely on and be proud of. This is a big step in that direction.”

In 2022, the TTC operated nine streetcar routes spanning approximately 355 km, carrying more than 26 million people.

“The TTC is grateful for the continued support of all orders of government as we plan for the future growth and ridership of the city,” said TTC CEO Rick Leary. “I want to thank the many TTC employees who keep Toronto moving and dedicate themselves to getting our customers to and from their destinations safely. I know how excited they will be to have more new vehicles in the fleet.”

Since 2020, the TTC has operated only low-floor, high-capacity, fully accessible streetcars on its network. Buses also operate on the streetcar network in the short term to support ongoing construction projects in the city. The capacity of one streetcar is equal to two and a half buses.

[T3G]

Perhaps some over zealous intern was a little too trigger happy and released this before it actually happened.

[John Oke]

https://x.com/ttcnewsroom/status/1725573004422217768?s=46&t=PqycuNuzJUzsITuBMOpOwg
 

there seems to be no major visual differences on the interior of 4604 from the photos provided 

[Turtle]

16 hours ago, John Oke said:

https://x.com/ttcnewsroom/status/1725573004422217768?s=46&t=PqycuNuzJUzsITuBMOpOwg
 

there seems to be no major visual differences on the interior of 4604 from the photos provided 

It's clean, and the sticker lady hasn't had a chance to steal the stickers yet.

 

Seat fabric is plain like the buses and subway, no pattern.

[Turtle]

Just in case nobody here has heard, or that just in case news is only relevant when it first hits, but the resolution isn't important:

 

The ticket for the streetcar driver blocking eastbound King and University has been "cancelled". It went away secretly without the media caring about it. Meanwhile, a little piece on reddit claimed that cops were actually enforcing the King street traffic control signage made the news, but in practice nothing has changed. 

 

Things are back to the same frustrating normal that they were before: if you are using or relying on public transit, you are a lower class and lower priority than everybody else, including those people on ebikes delivering Whopper Combos while riding their 100lb ebike at 40kim/hr on a sidewalk.

[nfitz]

40 kim/hr? Must be my kimchee order from KoreaTown! 

The 504 ticket was in the Star - https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/toronto-hit-rock-bottom-with-ticketing-of-king-street-streetcar-transit-has-nowhere-to-go/article_6b6569af-e130-5bf9-b379-f5faaafe30c4.html

 

[Turtle]

2 hours ago, nfitz said:

40 kim/hr? Must be my kimchee order from KoreaTown! 

The 504 ticket was in the Star - https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/toronto-hit-rock-bottom-with-ticketing-of-king-street-streetcar-transit-has-nowhere-to-go/article_6b6569af-e130-5bf9-b379-f5faaafe30c4.html

 

From the article: "This week CityNews reported data revealing the King streetcar is slower now than it was before the transit priority project."

 

The link to the CityNews report: https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/11/13/streetcars-travelling-slower-on-king-street-than-before-the-transit-corridor-pilot-project/

 

Each person who ignores the traffic control signage could get 2 demerit points. Could and should,  doesn't mean sh** if nobody enforces it.

 

15 hours ago, Turtle said:

The ticket for the streetcar driver blocking eastbound King and University has been "cancelled". It went away secretly without the media caring about it. Meanwhile, a little piece on reddit claimed that cops were actually enforcing the King street traffic control signage made the news, but in practice nothing has changed.

...just to quote myself, it seems like pressure from the union & ttc actually worked this time, since the streetcars would never be able to get across a handful of intersections without bending the rules...hold until you have at least a streetcar length + 10% clear in the lane ahead of you...the streetcars will be holding until 11pm on King if that was implemented. Before the closure for the Ontario line, Queen/York and Queen/Bay were terrible for obnoxious single occupancy vehicles blocking mass public transit.

[Turtle]

2 hours ago, nfitz said:

40 kim/hr? Must be my kimchee order from KoreaTown! 

You know, you can purchase that stuff almost anywhere now, you don't need to get it delivered by ebike.

 

Whole Foods, Farm Boy, No Frills, The Big Carrot, and Real Canadian Superstore all carry it, as well as the "ethnic stores" in the stockyards, or some places along Spadina or Bloor.

[nfitz]

22 minutes ago, Turtle said:

You know, you can purchase that stuff almost anywhere now, you don't need to get it delivered by ebike.

 

Whole Foods, Farm Boy, No Frills, The Big Carrot, and Real Canadian Superstore all carry it ...

Not the same. Sure, there's other places though.

But hang on - it was a joke. Also, I've always taken the subway; and normally only popped in going nearby.

[drum118]

It been reported that the driver ticket has been cancel