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Wasn't sure where to post this, so I figure here's as good a place as any. I spent the last week or so recreating John Bromley's map of the streetcar network, as of February 13, 1945. Was unquest

It isn't a joint. The rail itself is fine.   The issue is with a concrete slab within the track allowance on the west side of the Don River Bridge. They found that it would move 2 to 3 inche

I've heard rumours they are planning on 4-digit Arabic numerals this time.

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2 hours ago, Transit geek said:

Well a push-pull train is different from a self-propelled unit. The loco might need heavy equipment repair but the passenger carriages just need to be dried out.

All the wiring on both streetcars are probably toasted. They'll have to not only rip out all the seats, the wall and the floor, they'll likely have to replace all the electronics on the cab section. Both cars are a health hazard too since the water came from a backed up storm sewer. Yup, it's a stinky mess. For 4471, probably easier to order a new car and salvage the equipment from the roof assuming they weren't damage.

4471 was pretty submerged to the top

 

 

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3 hours ago, Transit geek said:

Well a push-pull train is different from a self-propelled unit. The loco might need heavy equipment repair but the passenger carriages just need to be dried out.

Except that the part about the coaches is not true in the least. And you should really stop trying to explain things if you don't know.

 

The passenger cars needed to be torn apart back to their structure, and all panels that were immersed in water needed to be at the very least cleaned. Upholstery,  carpets and flooring needed to be replaced. Trucks needed to be inspected and overhauled. Brake cylinders and valves needed to be replaced.

 

The loco needed the trucks and some of the underbody equipment overhauled or replaced - but all of those items are easily accessible and designed for maintenance. The loco was the first vehicle back into service from that train that got soaked.

 

In the case of the streetcars, very little mechanical or electrical would have been affected by flooding as all of the really delicate stuff is mounted in the roof. What is going to cause the greatest amount of downtime is replacing the interior.


Dan

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1 hour ago, smallspy said:

In the case of the streetcars, very little mechanical or electrical would have been affected by flooding as all of the really delicate stuff is mounted in the roof. What is going to cause the greatest amount of downtime is replacing the interior.


Dan

Based on the pictures I have seen, I still suspect there was significant damage to the cab electronics and the below-the-floor electronics, including the traction motors. Does anyone know if the cars were operable after this incident or did they end up being towed to Leslie?

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6 minutes ago, ttc rider said:

Based on the pictures I have seen, I still suspect there was significant damage to the cab electronics and the below-the-floor electronics, including the traction motors. Does anyone know if the cars were operable after this incident or did they end up being towed to Leslie?

Pretty sure they would have just towed both of them back to Leslie.

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2 hours ago, ttc rider said:

Based on the pictures I have seen, I still suspect there was significant damage to the cab electronics and the below-the-floor electronics, including the traction motors. Does anyone know if the cars were operable after this incident or did they end up being towed to Leslie?

There may have been some damage to the cab equipment, but as I wrote, the really delicate - and therefore expensive - stuff is up on the roof. The traction motors and gearboxes are certainly done for however.

 

I'm not sure why they may have, but they did power up 4471 after towing it out of the underpass. They took the pole down before towing it back to Leslie.


Dan

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4 hours ago, Cityflyer said:

You guys seriously thought it was only rainwater those people were happily splashing through?

most of the mains downtown are “common” -insofar as there are two troughs inside one common pipe, one for storm water, the other sanitary. As long as the water volumes are within max spec, they stay separate, and reach their respective destinations without coming into contact with each other.

When a storm of any magnitude dumps on the downtown core, the storm trough overflows and mixes into the sanitary.... the one last night completely overwhelmed the system and sent the shit bouillabaisse up top to “visit” in the lower catch basins. Treatment plant couldn't handle the volume last night either, despite taking great lengths to construct a truly massive underground holding tank on the lakeshore, near the exhibition grounds over 20 years ago. Pic and some background here:https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/gta/2016/12/29/how-torontos-sewage-system-keeps-us-safe-from-fatbergs-to-preventing-floods.html

 

It all has to get shunted straight into the lake raw....there’s no alternative.

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TTC service returns to Broadview Ave. this weekend

August 9, 2018

The TTC's 504 King, 505 Dundas and 506 Carlton service will return to regular routing through the Broadview Ave./Gerrard St. intersection this Sun., Aug. 12, at 7 a.m.

Temporary diversions had been in place since July while the TTC and City of Toronto replaced aging streetcar tracks. With crews working around the clock work in favourable weather conditions and with no complications, the work was completed four weeks ahead of schedule.

All three routes will operate with replacement buses when the intersection opens. Streetcars return to 504 King and 506 Carlton on Sept. 2 once overhead power is restored and testing of the new tracks is completed. 505 Dundas will continue to operate using buses for several months due to fleet availability and to accommodate track work at Dundas St. W. and Lansdowne Ave.

Customers are advised to check ttc.ca and follow @TTCNotices on Twitter for service updates.

 

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19 hours ago, Bus_Medic said:

... most of the mains downtown are “common” -insofar as there are two troughs inside one common pipe, one for storm water, the other sanitary. As long as the water volumes are within max spec, they stay separate, and reach their respective destinations without coming into contact with each other.

Looking at Streetview, there seems to be two lines of manholes along that section of King from Strachan to at least Atlantic. One in the centre, and one close to the north curb. It may have been fully separated at somepoint in the past.

 

But even then, with that much flooding, there's likely cross-contamination, simply as both would be completely flooded simply through the manholes. And there's still likely non-separated connections in the area.

 

But that said, there's massive dilution. You are talking about a lot of rain water, and a little sewage. We are talking about percentages and possibilities here. It's not like it was an entire underpass of 100% raw sewage.

 

Those of you who have had children have probably encountered far worse in an unexpected incident.

 

Or anyone who swims in Lake Ontario.

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Having spent much of my apprenticeship attending to malfunctioning highway coach holding tanks, I can assure you it would take more than that to scare me. Just maybe would avoid submerging my head if I could help it. Nobody likes pink eye.

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5 minutes ago, Bus_Medic said:

Having spent much of my apprenticeship attending to malfunctioning highway coach holding tanks, I can assure you it would take more than that to scare me. Just maybe would avoid submerging my head if I could help it. Nobody likes pink eye.

Hopefully the Toronto Transit Commission Health and Safety Confined Space Entry Standard Operating Procedure (TTC H&S CSE SOP) requires that the water be emptied from the very large glass-windowed fishtanks before any entry is made! :)

 

Assuming that such SOPs exist.

 

#DeathByAcronym #CoverYourAss

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Just now, WoodbineSecondExit said:

4471 and 4478 haven't been in service since Tuesday night. No surprise there. The question is how many weeks before they can return?

For 4471, more like how many months. It's not some cosmetic thing we're talking about. 

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6 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

For 4471, more like how many months. It's not some cosmetic thing we're talking about. 

i have a feeling it might noot even return to service given the fact that its been waterlogged with raw sewage. Theyll probably have to strip it down to the frame in order to clean it and rebuild it

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17 minutes ago, skyfirenet said:

Pity that both cars aren't in the group that needs welding work. Otherwise, that would be seen as a bonus.

What makes you think La P is set up from a parts and techinques point of view to do such an extensive job? Even if they are, does the TTC contracts with maintenance permit accident-damage to be outsourced?

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5 hours ago, dowlingm said:

What makes you think La P is set up from a parts and techinques point of view to do such an extensive job? Even if they are, does the TTC contracts with maintenance permit accident-damage to be outsourced?

Who said anything about La P doing the decontamination and rebuild work? I was simply pointing out that if the car was going to be stripped down to the frame, it would be the ideal time to do work on the frame like the weld repair.

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19 hours ago, skyfirenet said:

Who said anything about La P doing the decontamination and rebuild work? I was simply pointing out that if the car was going to be stripped down to the frame, it would be the ideal time to do work on the frame like the weld repair.

La P is Bombardier’s “welding centre of excellence”. The repairs won’t be done elsewhere.

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