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Reply to post #4597, for some reason my browser won't show the quoted text.

The door side mirrors were installed during the Heavy Rebuild Program of 1972-75. Cars that weren't rebuilt, such as all the second hand cars, had the mirrors added around that time as well. Before that there were no exterior mirrors. The closed side mirrors were only installed on the A-15 Major Rebuild cars of 1988-1992. I think 4600 and 4601 were retrofitted with these after they were rebuilt.

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Reply to post #4597, for some reason my browser won't show the quoted text.

The door side mirrors were installed during the Heavy Rebuild Program of 1972-75. Cars that weren't rebuilt, such as all the second hand cars, had the mirrors added around that time as well. Before that there were no exterior mirrors. The closed side mirrors were only installed on the A-15 Major Rebuild cars of 1988-1992. I think 4600 and 4601 were retrofitted with these after they were rebuilt.

Makes sense, thanks for the info.

Is there any reason why the cars didn't have door side mirrors from the get-go? I mean, given the fact that streetcars always stay in the left hand lane, I can kind of see why they wouldn't need to have closed side mirrors, but what about door side? How did the driver make sure there was no traffic and that it was safe to open the doors?

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I think it was a TTC thing. They took the door side mirrors off the GM New Looks when they were first delivered. One-man Peter Witt cars had a mirror built in to the front doors. They must have thought that traffic wasn't bad enough to warrant it, or just thinking of ideas - maybe because the centre doors on PCCs and buses opened outwards they thought the mirrors weren't needed. Witt car centre doors are a sliding type so they wouldn't be as easily visible to the driver using the inside mirror. Just a theory.

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I think it was a TTC thing. They took the door side mirrors off the GM New Looks when they were first delivered. One-man Peter Witt cars had a mirror built in to the front doors. They must have thought that traffic wasn't bad enough to warrant it, or just thinking of ideas - maybe because the centre doors on PCCs and buses opened outwards they thought the mirrors weren't needed. Witt car centre doors are a sliding type so they wouldn't be as easily visible to the driver using the inside mirror. Just a theory.

Very interesting, and odd.

The turn signal thing is even stranger. Are the orange lights on 4379 in this post rebuild photo turn signals? I assume so, but they don't seem to have any on the sides, a la W-30, so I don't know if that's what their purpose is.

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/photos/images/ttc-4662-queen-king-1978.jpg

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4612 was the only passenger PCC car to receive turn signals on the side of the car. The advertising lights on the front blinked as the turn signals.

Interesting. Thanks for the info, as usual.

Another question, this time about the modern day period: are there any tentative dates for a possible restoration of 508 service? Or do we have to get far many more Flexities on property first?

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Another question, this time about the modern day period: are there any tentative dates for a possible restoration of 508 service? Or do we have to get far many more Flexities on property first?

Massive changes to 501 route design are supposed to be coming in January. Officially, January 3rd. I am awaiting this with interest.

The official rationale is that the 501 changes are enough, and restoring a 508 service isn't a priority at this point. Note, there are three morning runs that sound like they are 508-ish, though the exact destination downtown isn't specified. I guess they might go to Queen and Church, or possibly Parliament.

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Massive changes to 501 route design are supposed to be coming in January. Officially, January 3rd. I am awaiting this with interest.

The official rationale is that the 501 changes are enough, and restoring a 508 service isn't a priority at this point.

I had no idea that the changes were still going through as I heard conflicting news about this. It's great to see this change finally happening. I guess that explains the track work I saw being done overnight on the westbound loop at Humber a few weeks ago.

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I had no idea that the changes were still going through as I heard conflicting news about this. It's great to see this change finally happening. I guess that explains the track work I saw being done overnight on the westbound loop at Humber a few weeks ago.

Official words appeared a month ago. The service summary, Steve Munro's post, board meeting presentation all mention this. I'm surprised that you found out just now.

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From a quick glance at the run guides on queen during jan 3 board period . Run 40 and up will be specifically long branch to humber loop and was mostly choosen by senior operators.

With this "new run" ttc has been able to take away SAC, so in turn it has made seniors operators at Russell upset.

I figure this route will turn more into a change off route where cis will switch people on queen to keep time.

Only question I have is at humber loop and where customers will stand, i know therea a platform and if I'm not mistaken it's a manual switch to turn back to long branch

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From a quick glance at the run guides on queen during jan 3 board period . Run 40 and up will be specifically long branch to humber loop and was mostly choosen by senior operators.

With this "new run" ttc has been able to take away SAC, so in turn it has made seniors operators at Russell upset.

I figure this route will turn more into a change off route where cis will switch people on queen to keep time.

Only question I have is at humber loop and where customers will stand, i know therea a platform and if I'm not mistaken it's a manual switch to turn back to long branch

This is suppose to be only temporary. Let's see how long this will last. Too bad, it makes no sense to run the Long Branch 501s with Russell cars. It kinda sucks with Russell that the 502/303 is bussed too.

It wouldn't matter that much as with the manual switch as the through runs are very limited.

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This is suppose to be only temporary. Let's see how long this will last. Too bad, it makes no sense to run the Long Branch 501s with Russell cars. It kinda sucks with Russell that the 502/303 is bussed too.

It wouldn't matter that much as with the manual switch as the through runs are very limited.

But the layout will be weird. Coming into long branch to humber loop, the operator would have to come out and manual switch to turn for the loop. I can see cause it causing confusing for customer as they would want to exit with you and you crank the switch and the stop is after the switch

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But the layout will be weird. Coming into long branch to humber loop, the operator would have to come out and manual switch to turn for the loop. I can see cause it causing confusing for customer as they would want to exit with you and you crank the switch and the stop is after the switch

The operator will not always have to reset the switch. It will only have to be set once, since it will become the regular routing to turnback at Humber Loop. It will have to be set for the straight instead of the curve. The only times its direction will have to be changed is when cars are leaving the route and going back to Roncy.

It's not a manual switch, and as far as I know, it hasn't been since they started to put in powered switches in the 1960s.

Dan

The switch to turn at Humber Loop back toward Long Branch is a manual switch.
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The switch to turn at Humber Loop back toward Long Branch is a manual switch.

No it isn't; it's a powered switch (sel switch 234). Now, whether it's currently active as a powered is a different question (ie. they may have disconnected power to it), but it is definitely set up as a powered switch and it wouldn't take much to restore it back to powered state if necessary.

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From a quick glance at the run guides on queen during jan 3 board period . Run 40 and up will be specifically long branch to humber loop and was mostly choosen by senior operators.

With this "new run" ttc has been able to take away SAC, so in turn it has made seniors operators at Russell upset.

what does SAC mean here?
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The last track diagram I have - circa 2009 - shows it as a powered switch.

Now, was the diagram wrong?

Dan

It must be. Since I started driving streetcars, I do not recall ever seeing a motor cover, switch box, or NA sign anywhere near that switch, and I've passed it quite a number of times.
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Official words appeared a month ago. The service summary, Steve Munro's post, board meeting presentation all mention this. I'm surprised that you found out just now.

It's going to be a surprise to riders who aren't transit geeks. I haven't seen a single notice on a pole. Lots of people Monday morning at stops on Lake Shore not wanting to get on a 501 HUMBER car....

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