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i wonder how the driver offload passengers since the platforms on st. clair is not long enough.

Which platform are you referring too? The only platform on St Clair that may present any issue in its current format is the loading platform at St Clair West Stn. All of the other platforms along the line were built to accommodate the low floors.

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4412 went into service the other day on 512. https://twitter.com/jaybeegooner/status/671855246809956352

That's impossible. 4412 was in service on Spadina all day on Dec. 1. And the day before, and the day after...

Also, all LFLRV runs are scheduled on 509 and 510, so unless it was an unscheduled extra, it could not have made it up there, either.

Don't believe everything you read on twitter.

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i wonder how the driver offload passengers since the platforms on st. clair is not long enough.

The offload platform at St. Clair can easily accommodate two CLRVs, so one low-floor streetcar is not a problem.

The loading platform is very long, so there are no problems there either. All they did was moving the stop marker a bit further east, so that now two CLRVs can load at the same time.

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Memo to: dowlingm

Thread # 4448 mentions 4412 being in service as early as November 22nd.

On St. Clair? That post indicates they were all on Harbourfront or Spadina. The car itself, entered service (on Spadina) on November 10 according to the TTC press release.

BTW, Brad tweeted that 4413 enters service today on 509 Harbourfront. However new cars on that route aren't currently showing up in the NextBus data.

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Memo to: dowlingm

Thread # 4448 mentions 4412 being in service as early as November 22nd.

if you read the tweet you would notice that it was not in service at the time, but was on a training run. My point was that it was reported in service *on 512*

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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i wonder how the driver offload passengers since the platforms on st. clair is not long enough.

Which platform are you referring too? The only platform on St Clair that may present any issue in its current format is the loading platform at St Clair West Stn. All of the other platforms along the line were built to accommodate the low floors.

The offload platform at St. Clair can easily accommodate two CLRVs, so one low-floor streetcar is not a problem.

The issue on St Clair is not the length of the platforms, it is the height. Some of the stops are to high or to low for the ramps to deploy. That is 512 is further down on the rollout schedule (ahead of only 502, 503 and 506), to allow the TTC some time to fix the platforms.

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The issue on St Clair is not the length of the platforms, it is the height. Some of the stops are to high or to low for the ramps to deploy. That is 512 is further down on the rollout schedule (ahead of only 502, 503 and 506), to allow the TTC some time to fix the platforms.

That was dealt with months if not years ago, as far as I know. Same issue on Spadina. It's a very very minor modification to the pavement - far less drastic than what's been doing at ALL the 501/502/503/504/505/511 stops to put ramps in!

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That was dealt with months if not years ago, as far as I know. Same issue on Spadina. It's a very very minor modification to the pavement - far less drastic than what's been doing at ALL the 501/502/503/504/505/511 stops to put ramps in!

I don't recall them fixing it. TTC said it would cost some $70m to rebuilt all the platforms. It doesn't sound as simple as cutting a curb and making a ramp. With the streetcar delays, they have till 2017 to fix it.

That reminds me they did make a ramp at the 508 pm stop on Church/Adelaide. I walked by laughing in my head considering there won't be service there anytime soon. If they do run the 508 to Cherry loop, this stop would be useless.

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Steve Munro has posted that the 510 will be converted to new streetcar schedule in January. AND if new streetcars aren't available, ALRVs will substitute.

The 501 is split back to the old 501/507 configuration for most times till have have more streetcars. Lake shore will finally much better service.

The 502/503 is bussed thanks to streetcar shortage.

And various streetcar changes.

Presto on the 502/503 is short lived. Plus streetcar won't be entering Exhibition loop anymore thanks to construction.

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The 501 is split back to the old 501/507 configuration for most times till have have more streetcars. Lake shore will finally much better service.

The 502/503 is bussed thanks to streetcar shortage.

And various streetcar changes.

Presto on the 502/503 is short lived. Plus streetcar won't be entering Exhibition loop anymore thanks to construction.

That assumes that the 507 cars are monitored to run according to schedule. I remember the time when there were some spare CLRVs, they were put on a 507 service alongside through 501 cars. It was not infrequent to see a 507 or two parked on Lake Shore, right by the Tim Horton at 28th, with the four-ways on. Or grouped together at Humber. Or sitting on the layby track at Long Branch.

Tangentially related, the past few days, there have been 501L buses mixed in with streetcars on Lake Shore. Is all of Queen getting tripper/peak buses like King, or only Lake Shore? I haven't had a chance to follow them.

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That assumes that the 507 cars are monitored to run according to schedule. I remember the time when there were some spare CLRVs, they were put on a 507 service alongside through 501 cars. It was not infrequent to see a 507 or two parked on Lake Shore, right by the Tim Horton at 28th, with the four-ways on. Or grouped together at Humber. Or sitting on the layby track at Long Branch.

yeah but now someone's gonna be watching on Nextbus/Transee and tweeting about it

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I don't recall them fixing it. TTC said it would cost some $70m to rebuilt all the platforms. It doesn't sound as simple as cutting a curb and making a ramp. With the streetcar delays, they have till 2017 to fix it.

Think about it. The entire streetcar rebuild including all the road pavement and sidewalks only cost about that much (with another $30 million of hydro work). $70 million isn't the cost to modify 50 platforms along St. Clair!

Surely you saw the modifications being done to the Spadina platforms during the 2012 bustitution. All they did was rip out a small piece of the platform, and replace it with some concrete of a slightly different height, where the ramp comes down.

I'm not sure where you are getting $70 million. The budget in early 2013 to modify most of the 700 stops (including St. Clair) was only $58 million! I'd think the St. Clair stops would be a lot easier to modify then street stops, where they've replaced the concrete all the way back to the stores. Do they even have to replace concrete on St. Clair - perhaps some simple grinding would suffice.

I'm not on St. Clair often enough to know if it's been done yet. Has anyone noticed? I'd assume it would be done earlier, as it physically stops the ramp from being used - unlike a regular street, where the only issue is the wheelchair getting from the sidewalk to the road.

That reminds me they did make a ramp at the 508 pm stop on Church/Adelaide. I walked by laughing in my head considering there won't be service there anytime soon. If they do run the 508 to Cherry loop, this stop would be useless.

I doubt that would be used much - but it could be used during detours or short-turns (though probably not as much as Richmond/Adelaide). As such, it would need to be accessible. TTC has said that Cherry Loop will be served by a 514 streetcar that runs from there to Dufferin loop. There's no indication that the 508 won't be restored to it's current routing (though perhaps it should go to Cherry loop - though it would be difficult to start it there on-time, as it would be blocking 514 cars).

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Think about it. The entire streetcar rebuild including all the road pavement and sidewalks only cost about that much (with another $30 million of hydro work). $70 million isn't the cost to modify 50 platforms along St. Clair!

Surely you saw the modifications being done to the Spadina platforms during the 2012 bustitution. All they did was rip out a small piece of the platform, and replace it with some concrete of a slightly different height, where the ramp comes down.

I'm not sure where you are getting $70 million. The budget in early 2013 to modify most of the 700 stops (including St. Clair) was only $58 million! I'd think the St. Clair stops would be a lot easier to modify then street stops, where they've replaced the concrete all the way back to the stores. Do they even have to replace concrete on St. Clair - perhaps some simple grinding would suffice.

I'm not on St. Clair often enough to know if it's been done yet. Has anyone noticed? I'd assume it would be done earlier, as it physically stops the ramp from being used - unlike a regular street, where the only issue is the wheelchair getting from the sidewalk to the road.

I doubt that would be used much - but it could be used during detours or short-turns (though probably not as much as Richmond/Adelaide). As such, it would need to be accessible. TTC has said that Cherry Loop will be served by a 514 streetcar that runs from there to Dufferin loop. There's no indication that the 508 won't be restored to it's current routing (though perhaps it should go to Cherry loop - though it would be difficult to start it there on-time, as it would be blocking 514 cars).

You're right. Somehow I might have mixed it up with the $700m figure to get the new streetcars running. It's been a long while.

http://news.nationalpost.com/posted-toronto/ttc-to-spend-700m-upgrading-infrastructure-for-new-streetcars

All the Dundas stops were done last year. They hardly had an effect on the surrounding. Just took out 1x1 m^2 of space out of the sidewalk for two weeks with no lane closures.

I don't know how outdated is this presentation: https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2013/June_24/Reports/New_Streetcar_Implem.pdf

It says the schedule for 512 platform is 2016. 2015 they are doing 501/508 which they did. Also says the platform/curb cut will cost 68m not 58m.

Also, TTC plans to redo the ramp to SCW next year. So the 512 will have to be bussed for a month or two. That's why they'll very likely redo the platforms and address the platform length at SCW.

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Yes, looks like the cost went up to $68 million. If they need to start replacing concrete on St. Clair, I can see that they might want to do it when there's no streetcars running, given the working space around the platforms.

I was standing on the 506 eastbound platform at Bathurst yesterday. Those old narrow island platforms are going to be a lot of work. I suspect that a disproportionate amount of the budget ends up there - as many will have to be wider than they are now.

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Yes, looks like the cost went up to $68 million. If they need to start replacing concrete on St. Clair, I can see that they might want to do it when there's no streetcars running, given the working space around the platforms.

I was standing on the 506 eastbound platform at Bathurst yesterday. Those old narrow island platforms are going to be a lot of work. I suspect that a disproportionate amount of the budget ends up there - as many will have to be wider than they are now.

More appropriate, it would be better if they actually REMOVE some of the platform stops on St. Clair, because they are too close together,

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More appropriate, it would be better if they actually REMOVE some of the platform stops on St. Clair, because they are too close together,

Umm you'll have the whole community backlash at you for removing their stop and wasting money building the platform. The media is still very sensitive to the St. Clair ROW. I also don't think it will be a lot faster with that many lights on St. Clair.

Yes, looks like the cost went up to $68 million. If they need to start replacing concrete on St. Clair, I can see that they might want to do it when there's no streetcars running, given the working space around the platforms.

I was standing on the 506 eastbound platform at Bathurst yesterday. Those old narrow island platforms are going to be a lot of work. I suspect that a disproportionate amount of the budget ends up there - as many will have to be wider than they are now.

Yes, they'll need to rebuilt the platforms to 1.5m wide. If they can't do it, they'll just remove the island like how they did on Kingston Rd at Dundas. They left the whole 506 line for last.

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So I was on 4404 today on the 510 on King East, and the car showed the Connaught exposure.... no Leslie signage? I thought it would have been programmed. Perhaps she did not use it or knew about it?

Also, as we come up to POP time on all streetcar routes next week, I've been noticing of the big the majority of the past few board periods (including this one) that very few drivers have been allowing for all-door boarding on the 501 and 504 during POP times.

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Here's a question on a very old bit of history. I'm asking because a slide posted for sale on ebay twigged my memory. I was a bit young to think this thru at the time.

Prior to Feb 1966, TTC used the 4400 and 4600 MU'd PCC's on Bloor-Danforth. These cars were based out of Lansdowne and Danforth. The Air-Electric fleet was based out of Roncy and Russell.

When the first section of the Bloor-Danforth subway opened, the MU cars moved to Queen, and were based out of Roncy/Russell. Lansdowne and Danforth ceased to be operating streetcar divisions, but became parking lots for the stored air-electric cars that were made surplus by the subway.

My question - how was the shuffling of all those cars handled? Was there one big shuffle after the new subway opened, or did the transfer happen slowly over a period of weeks or months?

A small number of air-electrics continued in operation based at Roncy/Russell, until after the extensions of the subway opened in 1968. I have shots of the last cars leaving Roncy. But by then, the bigger shuffle had taken place.

Does anyone have a memory or records of how that shuffle happened? Even sightings from those first few days after the subway first opened might assist.

- Paul

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So I was on 4404 today on the 510 on King East, and the car showed the Connaught exposure.... no Leslie signage? I thought it would have been programmed. Perhaps she did not use it or knew about it?

Currently the LFLRVs do not have any Leslie exposures in the destination sign program. This will be rectified soon.

Going through the destination sign program, there are destinations missing from some routes. For example Spadina doesn't have a Roncesvalles desto. With the electronic sign there should be no reason that there is not an exposure for each of the carhouses. Also in general the destination lists for each route can be rather poorly ordered, going back and forth across the route as you go down the list. It is also worth noting that over a year after going into revenue service there are still no Blue Night route signs programmed in for any of the night routes. So eventhough the LFs, having electronic signs which allow for greater ease of changing signs for new or modified services, have been left with missing or inacurate route signs simply because someone has failed to program them and upload to the cars. If it is going to be rectified soon hopefully all of the current sign short comings will be rectified as well. Look forward to having a proper destination sign to put up, and not have to announce at every stop the car is only going as far as Queen and Leslie.

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