Streetcar News

[nfitz]

55 minutes ago, dowlingm said:

The operator of the streetcar was taken to hospital as a precautionary measure, so I don’t think we can say with certainty either way

Ah - well that changes things! I'll retract my comment!

[Ed T.]

It's not the dollar's worth of paint, its all the extra paperwork, diversions, etc. I'd be pretty confident that an incident like this results in paperwork that takes up hundreds of dollars worth of paid time, if not thousands.

[drum118]

Streetcars account for half of deadly TTC collisions with pedestrians, cyclists

[WKLis]

12 hours ago, drum118 said:

Streetcars account for half of deadly TTC collisions with pedestrians, cyclists

There are more people and cyclists downtown, where the streetcars are. Would expect there would be more "targets"!

[63 Ossington]

Also the fact that people's perceptions of streetcars are that they're slow and have a fixed line of travel so they are more confident in playing chicken with them more.

[leylandvictory2]

Also streetcars cannt swerve away from obstacles.  On 510, too many people jaywalk across the tracks.

[dowlingm]

So... anyone want to give an estimate of how long we’re gonna be without 4408?

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4729878?__twitter_impression=true

[nfitz]

16 minutes ago, dowlingm said:

So... anyone want to give an estimate of how long we’re gonna be without 4408?

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4729878?__twitter_impression=true

I'd guess less than a week. I'd guess shorter if it wasn't a long weekend. Didn't seem to be much or any damage.

Last time one of these discussions started, the car was back in service before the morning was out! But it appears to have returned to the yard this time.

[dowlingm]

2 minutes ago, nfitz said:

I'd guess less than a week. I'd guess shorter if it wasn't a long weekend. Didn't seem to be much or any damage.

Last time one of these discussions started, the car was back in service before the morning was out! But it appears to have returned to the yard this time.

Guess it depends on how they managed to extract the car... last time was dead in front, I think? That’s where you would expect the car to be best able to take a hit.

[TTCOpITM]

3 hours ago, nfitz said:

I'd guess less than a week. I'd guess shorter if it wasn't a long weekend. Didn't seem to be much or any damage.

 

Last time one of these discussions started, the car was back in service before the morning was out! But it appears to have returned to the yard this time.

Uh, the damage is worse than you can tell from those photos. Broken windows, torn up fiberglass body panels. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some structural damage as well. In the last case you're speaking of, the only damage was to the front skirt of a CLRV which can be replaced in no time. This looks quite a bit more severe.

[dowlingm]

2 hours ago, TTCOpITM said:

Uh, the damage is worse than you can tell from those photos. Broken windows, torn up fiberglass body panels. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some structural damage as well. In the last case you're speaking of, the only damage was to the front skirt of a CLRV which can be replaced in no time. This looks quite a bit more severe.

The one I was thinking of was 4445 on May 22

[TTCOpITM]

2 hours ago, dowlingm said:

The one I was thinking of was 4445 on May 22

I believe nfitz was referring to CLRV 4090.

[nfitz]

6 hours ago, TTCOpITM said:

I believe nfitz was referring to CLRV 4090.

No, it was a 512 Flexity in an accident  downtown early morning, on the way into service.

[smallspy]

10 hours ago, dowlingm said:

The one I was thinking of was 4445 on May 22

The impact on 4445 was enough to push it off of the tracks - and it yet still returned to service a couple of days later. There is a lot less force and energy to dissipate in this kind if impact and thus the likelihood of structural damage is almost nil. The only way that this car will be out of service for any significant length of time is if the is a need to wait for replacement panels or glass. I suspect that it'll be back before the middle of the week.

 

Dan

[dowlingm]

Just now, smallspy said:

The impact on 4445 was enough to push it off of the tracks - and it yet still returned to service a couple of days later. There is a lot less force and energy to dissipate in this kind if impact and thus the likelihood of structural damage is almost nil. The only way that this car will be out of service for any significant length of time is if the is a need to wait for replacement panels or glass. I suspect that it'll be back before the middle of the week.

 

Dan

But my point above Dan was that 4445 was a different impact - head on where impacts are highly anticipated in the design/crashworthiness. But hopefully your prediction is correct - need every AC car these days!

[ttc rider]

14 hours ago, smallspy said:

The impact on 4445 was enough to push it off of the tracks - and it yet still returned to service a couple of days later. There is a lot less force and energy to dissipate in this kind if impact and thus the likelihood of structural damage is almost nil. The only way that this car will be out of service for any significant length of time is if the is a need to wait for replacement panels or glass. I suspect that it'll be back before the middle of the week.

 

Dan

I think it is very difficult to make predictions as to how long repairs will take by simply looking at pictures.

For what is worth, after the collision on the evening of 18-May, car 4445 was back in service on 24-May.

On the other hand, after the collision on 26-Jul-2016, which at least superficially, looked similar as far as the damage was concerned, but with no derailment, car 4413 was out of commission for 29 days, returning to service on 25-Aug.

I've attached a couple of pictures for comparison.

Of course, another factor to consider is whether replacement parts are immediately available or need to be ordered.

Now, with respect to yesterday's accident on St. Clair, something similar happened on 13-March of this year, when car 4422 was involved in a side-swipe accident on King St, resulting in broken windows, damaged panels etc. on one side of the car. It returned to service on 11-April, so it took 28 days to be repaired.

[smallspy]

On 7/1/2018 at 11:01 AM, ttc rider said:

I think it is very difficult to make predictions as to how long repairs will take by simply looking at pictures.

For what is worth, after the collision on the evening of 18-May, car 4445 was back in service on 24-May.

On the other hand, after the collision on 26-Jul-2016, which at least superficially, looked similar as far as the damage was concerned, but with no derailment, car 4413 was out of commission for 29 days, returning to service on 25-Aug.

I've attached a couple of pictures for comparison.

Of course, another factor to consider is whether replacement parts are immediately available or need to be ordered.

Now, with respect to yesterday's accident on St. Clair, something similar happened on 13-March of this year, when car 4422 was involved in a side-swipe accident on King St, resulting in broken windows, damaged panels etc. on one side of the car. It returned to service on 11-April, so it took 28 days to be repaired.

And thus my comment about being dependent on the availability of parts. In the case of the incident involving 4413, many of the parts were not yet available, and thus its long layoff. The supply of parts held in storage is much better now, although there may still be delays for certain, specific components.

 

One would hope that things would be better now, but evidently looking at how long it took to get 4422 back into service, one does worry.

 

Dan

[dowlingm]

oh boy...

(also - is 4401’s trip to La Pocatiere linked to this perhaps?)

[lip]

At this rate the TTC should have the option of getting those potential 60 streetcars from Bombardier for a 50% discount minimum. It just never ends with that company.

[WMATAC40LF]

So does anyone know where the problem area is? 19 weeks per car sounds fairly significant to me. I'm very disappointed, but it sounds like they've thought out a plan for dealing with this.

[ttc rider]

8 minutes ago, lip said:

At this rate the TTC should have the option of getting those potential 60 streetcars from Bombardier for a 50% discount minimum. It just never ends with that company.

I would be astounded if we see those 60 extra streetcars - ever!

[TTC T6H-5307N 2252]

21 minutes ago, dowlingm said:

oh boy...

(also - is 4401’s trip to La Pocatiere linked to this perhaps?)

Then postpone the retirements of the CLRVs and ALRVs, I'm sure there's some retired cars at Leslie barns that could be rebuilt 

[Downsview 108]

43 minutes ago, dowlingm said:

oh boy...

(also - is 4401’s trip to La Pocatiere linked to this perhaps?)

I believe the children today call this an "epic fail"

25 minutes ago, TTC T6H-5307N 2252 said:

Then postpone the retirements of the CLRVs and ALRVs, I'm sure there's some retired cars at Leslie barns that could be rebuilt 

LOL hey they did it with the Orion IIIs when they were in the midst of retiring those.  

[WoodbineSecondExit]

The other manufacturers must be licking their chops right at this moment. It will be interesting to see if the origins of the problem are in Thunder Bay or Mexico. I wonder if this is something that should have been caught by the person signing off in TB?

[nfitz]

 

2 hours ago, dowlingm said:

oh boy...

(also - is 4401’s trip to La Pocatiere linked to this perhaps?)

I thought there was a report ages (years?) ago that there was a problem with the welds on some cars, and there was going to have to eventually be some repairs. Though the scope of it surprises me.

I'm guessing that 4401 is the prototype for this weld repair now. And then I'd guess 1 or 2 more get sent in the fall, then we won't hear much more about it, until in 2019 sometime.

 

2 hours ago, lip said:

At this rate the TTC should have the option of getting those potential 60 streetcars from Bombardier for a 50% discount minimum. It just never ends with that company.

They are doing this for no extra cost. I'm not sure how you extract much of a penalty for that, other than some loaners. Part of the penalty delivered as additional cars  - though they've already maxxed out that claim.

They are already have the option of a 26% discount. The original cars cost $990 million for 24 cars - $4.9 million each. The additional 60 are priced at $3.6 million.

Remember that back in 2009, Siemens bid $1.526 billion ($7.5 million) for 204 cars. And it would be higher per car for a 60-car order, instead of 204 cars.

It's pretty obvious to me that TTC should be dropping $3.6 million per car for the 60 cars (hopefully there are some freebies) for 2020 delivery... or else we'll find we are out $8 million per car and won't see anything until the mid-2020s!

 

1 hour ago, ttc rider said:

I would be astounded if we see those 60 extra streetcars - ever!

I fear that the TTC board is that stupid and vindictive. But hopefully that this is being discussed at next week's board meeting is an indication that they've sorted out all the penalties and issues with Bombardier, and the next 60 will be rubber stamped. As not getting them until 2026 doesn't seem to be an option (particularly as the latest fleet plan, requires 290 streetcars available in 2026, not 264!