drum118 Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 4 hours ago, Robert James said: Yes indeed Drum18, you're quite right. Still, the road back to being on schedule has to start somewhere. Maybe this is beginning of a winning streak, although i wouldn't bet the farm on it. To recovery, 4455 has to be ship Oct 25. With 4447 ready now, that mean a car has to be ship every 3 days. The best so far has been 7 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Flyer D40LF 7335 Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 When will the order be complete, 2040? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTC T6H-5307N 2252 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 2 hours ago, ProGamer21 said: When will the order be complete, 2040? More likely 2019/2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 I'm just going to keep my fingers crossed. I'd be happy with anything above 5 for this month. There is still some wiggle room at the tail end of 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum118 Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 4446 is tracking and is out for testing on 510 northbound. 4444 & 4445 still in the service bays. Any word on 4447??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Thanks for the information. I gather if the fabrication of the 4448 had been completed, we might have experienced the delivery of two Flexities simultaneously for the first time. Wouldn't that be something to report? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum118 Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 5 hours ago, 110B West Pickering said: Is waiting to leave Thunder Bay I know it was ready for pickup days ago and I though it would be in transit now, with delivery by the weekend. Anyway, this month schedule is going to be miss like the past 3 and wouldn't see 40 cars this year unless BBD is shipping 2-3 cars at the same time to meet this month schedule, as well the last 2 cars from Sept. BBD needs to be shipping a car every 3 day with 4448 already missing that date to get back on track. Only 20 days to ship 9 cars. The earliest TTC will see 4447 will be Oct 10, subject to CP now. 4446 was out last night up on St Clair when I went to bed at 2 am. At the rate its going, TTC may see it by Oct 10, but then it could be like 4444 & 4445 that are still not in service after 2-3 weeks since arrival and have done more burn in km than require. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodbineSecondExit Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 5 hours ago, drum118 said: 4446 was out last night up on St Clair when I went to bed at 2 am. At the rate its going, TTC may see it by Oct 10, but then it could be like 4444 & 4445 that are still not in service after 2-3 weeks since arrival and have done more burn in km than require. Most of the cars delivered in 2017 have taken much longer to enter service than the ones from last year. It used to be a regular 10-14 days after delivery with some starting in under 10. This year so far a couple have started after 9 days but most of them are 14 days or over. 4444 at 21 days by my count right now, 4445 at 16 days. - 4445 has entered service on 514 for today's PM rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum118 Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 3 hours ago, WoodbineSecondExit said: Most of the cars delivered in 2017 have taken much longer to enter service than the ones from last year. It used to be a regular 10-14 days after delivery with some starting in under 10. This year so far a couple have started after 9 days but most of them are 14 days or over. 4444 at 21 days by my count right now, 4445 at 16 days. - 4445 has entered service on 514 for today's PM rush. You beat me to posting 4445 as I wanted to make sure this time for entering service. 4445 arrived Sept 19 and 16 days later enter service at 3:15 pm on King St at River. At 3:55 pm, it arrived at Dufferin Loop on 514. It left the yard just after 3 pm today4444 is still in the service bay that arrived on Sept 14, 5 days before 4445. I said last week I was expecting to see 4445 enter service before 4444 based on what was taking place. 4437 and 4438 were the last 2 cars entering service in the 8-10 day range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMATAC40LF Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 4446 was doing a burn in along St. Clair this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transit geek Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 34 minutes ago, WMATAC40LF said: 4446 was doing a burn in along St. Clair this evening. Is St. Clair fully panto-ready yet? If so, I can see Flexity cars switching to pantos once the CLRVs are all but gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttc rider Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Transit geek said: Is St. Clair fully panto-ready yet? If so, I can see Flexity cars switching to pantos once the CLRVs are all but gone. St. Clair has been fully converted for more than a year now. In theory, I don't see why the Flexities on St. Clair couldn't switch to pantos tomorrow, regardless of how many CLRV's are running on the route, considering the overhead is compatible with both pantos and trolley poles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum118 Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 4446 just made it back to the Barns. It went out about 3. Wasn't sure it was going for testing or going in service since it was about the time 4445 went into service yesterday. Once it stay on Queen by King, knew it was out for testing. At the same time, 4444 back out of the service back and wonder if this was the day it would see service, but short live as it went into another bay. 4444 is currently in the yard and looks like it will see service on Sat, but who knows. 4446 will enter service sooner than 4444 & 45. Will be interesting to see what the CEO has to say in his report on Oct 10 about the fleet. How many of the 9 cars due this month do you think will show up?? As for pans on 512, most friendly line for the overhead out of the lines pan ready, but waiting a few more cars before conversion. Then, how are cars to make the conversion since the system is not ready for them to/from the Barns?? Most likely at St Clair West Station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bus_7246 Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 Of the locations that are not pantograph ready on Queen St East, it's the section from west of Leslie to east of Logan; parliament to west of Victoria that require overhead transition work for the route across queen and up Bathurst. Across King St East, a section from west of Parliament to east of Church; along with a section from west of York to east of Charlotte need transition work before they are ideally obsolete for pantograph use. Footnote: 4444 made it debut this morning on 514 Cherry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilRedDave Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 4448 on its way out of Thunder Bay into the fog as I type. With GO 4023 & 4024 in tow. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2044 Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 On 2017-09-30 at 3:35 PM, Robert James said: Smallspy makes a reasonable point. I get it. It`s just frustrating. Recognizing a learning curve in the production of new product should have been part of the planning when bidding on the contract in the first place. That a company pledges a certain performance when accepting a contract implies that they have undertaken all due diligence to assure themselves of the ability to do so. Not to have done so is disingenuous, and i would go so far as to say dishonest, if the result of their misrepresentation was their being awarded a contract, the terms of which that they were not yet able to deliver, to the detriment to buyer in good faith, in this case the TTC, and broadly speaking, the citizens of the City of Toronto. If they would have conceded at the get go that they would have needed an extra year to get all the pieces lined-up throughout their organization, and provide the proper training required by its workers to properly produce and fabricate all the necessary components, well that would been far more acceptable to the citizenry of this city. Dowlingm`s insightful observation is clearly appreciated and exemplifies a process of problem solving when faced with the challenge of the welding procedure that should have taken place prior to the beginning of production by experienced engineering department. Surely, the productions of streetcars throughout the industry have more in common then otherwise, and the engineering of the production process should have anticipated the challenges based on along history of streetcar production throughout the years. Part of what was being purchased by the TTC was an implicit trust in the competence and experience of those charged with designing the Flexity. Trail by error is not the most efficient process when fabricating a streetcar. Furthermore, doesn't this sort of trouble shooting take place digitally in some clever computer program prior to fabrication in our day in age? Speaking as some one who works in the field: there is almost always a chance of running into an issue with fabrication if you are working on a new and complex product. You try to anticipate everything you can, and CAD certainly helps with that, but there are things that become more apparent when you actually try them yourself. And there are things that are really hard to anticipate, like human behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrazsteve Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 5 hours ago, LilRedDave said: 4448 on its way out of Thunder Bay into the fog as I type. With GO 4023 & 4024 in tow. Do we have a streetcar delivered from the second assembly line yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 8 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said: Do we have a streetcar delivered from the second assembly line yet? Considering that Bombardier has been shipping on average better than a car a week since the middle of September, they would have to have been. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue.bird.fan Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Sorry to divert the topic a little, but I was thinking about it for a while, and thought that it might be better to terminate the contract with Bombardier and give it to Alstom for their Citadis vehicles instead. I'm sure Alstom would ship much faster, given other historical orders. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfirenet Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Not to mention that Alstom will have to produce prototypes that will have to undergo testing before they can start delivering the production units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrazsteve Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 5 hours ago, benz.citaro.fan said: Sorry to divert the topic a little, but I was thinking about it for a while, and thought that it might be better to terminate the contract with Bombardier and give it to Alstom for their Citadis vehicles instead. I'm sure Alstom would ship much faster, given other historical orders. Any thoughts? Even if Alstom can do it right, the first car won't enter service till at least 2021. A year to get the tender in, 1.5-2 for testing and training and maybe another year for shutdowns for modification again. It's not going to be faster and would be way more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dowlingm Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 14 hours ago, benz.citaro.fan said: Sorry to divert the topic a little, but I was thinking about it for a while, and thought that it might be better to terminate the contract with Bombardier and give it to Alstom for their Citadis vehicles instead. I'm sure Alstom would ship much faster, given other historical orders. Any thoughts? The Alstom product would need extensive preproduction design and testing. By the time car #1 was ready for service (let's be optimistic and say late 2019) Bombardier would probably have 150 or more Flexities in service. The existing fleet can't wait for Alstom to catch up even if every stage was perfect (unlikely). So maybe give Alstom a contract but for 50 or so from a single production line for a total fleet size of something like 225 (with Bombardier deliveries winding down early) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfirenet Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 25 minutes ago, dowlingm said: The Alstom product would need extensive preproduction design and testing. By the time car #1 was ready for service (let's be optimistic and say late 2019) Bombardier would probably have 150 or more Flexities in service. The existing fleet can't wait for Alstom to catch up even if every stage was perfect (unlikely). So maybe give Alstom a contract but for 50 or so from a single production line for a total fleet size of something like 225 (with Bombardier deliveries winding down early) The only question is whether said Alstom cars would require separate maintenance facilities from the Flexity fleet. It wouldn't be a deal killer since the expanded order would use the existing barns and one could be converted for their exclusive use. However, it would cause some uncomfortable seat shifting when it comes to the operations side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allandale25 Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 As some here predicted: "In other news, TTC CEO's latest report says Bombardier target of delivering 70 streetcars by the end of the year is in "serious doubt." CEO Andy Byford has "insisted" Bombardier publicly clarify the status before next week's TTC board meeting." - Ben Spurr (@BenSpurr) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dowlingm Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 5 hours ago, skyfirenet said: The only question is whether said Alstom cars would require separate maintenance facilities from the Flexity fleet. It wouldn't be a deal killer since the expanded order would use the existing barns and one could be converted for their exclusive use. However, it would cause some uncomfortable seat shifting when it comes to the operations side of things. No doubt many TTC folks will have to be flown to Melbourne and other cities at extensive cost to figure out how to manage a mixed fleet, the components of which are significantly bigger than all but a handful of light rail systems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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