Streetcar News

[ttc rider]

Looking at the schedule for 514 Cherry: http://webservices.nextbus.com/service/publicXMLFeed?command=schedule&a=ttc&r=514 it seems that all runs are assigned to Flexity operation on paper, meaning that the CLRV's currently operating there should be replaced by Flexities on a one-to-one basis with no cuts in service levels as more new cars become available.

[Xtrazsteve]

1 hour ago, ttc rider said:

Looking at the schedule for 514 Cherry: http://webservices.nextbus.com/service/publicXMLFeed?command=schedule&a=ttc&r=514 it seems that all runs are assigned to Flexity operation on paper, meaning that the CLRV's currently operating there should be replaced by Flexities on a one-to-one basis with no cuts in service levels as more new cars become available.

Nextbus never tells you that. Don't know where you got that idea. TTC has included their carhouse trip to Queen/Broadview thus it would be trackable to and from that point.

The 514 were assigned CLRVs on paper running from Russell not Leslie carhouse according to the run guides.

It seems like 4421 is doing a special run on the 514 (trackable from the Sammdot tracker) and 5 scheduled runs are CLRVs.

[ttc rider]

3 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Nextbus never tells you that. Don't know where you got that idea.

No, nextbus does not specifically indicate that, but ever since the Flexities entered service in Sept. 2014, all runs in the 5x range, whether they were on 510 or 509 were assigned to low-floor operation on paper. That CLRV's are dispatched on these runs due to insufficient number of new cars is another matter. As you can see, all 514 runs are in the 5x range, as well, so why should this be any different?

Now, if you're saying that the run guides say otherwise, I believe you. Does that mean service levels will be reduced once the route is formally converted to LF operation?

[nfitz]

5 minutes ago, ttc rider said:

No, nextbus does not specifically indicate that, but ever since the Flexities entered service in Sept. 2014, all runs in the 5x range, whether they were on 510 or 509 were assigned to low-floor operation on paper. That they run CLRV's on them due to insufficient number of new cars is another matter. As you can see, all 514 runs are in the 5x range, as well, so why should this be any different?

There's 2 Flexities out on 509 today, and neither are in the 500 range.

 

I think you are reading too much on this.

[ttc rider]

I should have been more specific:

When the Flexities were introduced on 510 & 509, there were two sets of run numbers:

runs 1 to x  - assigned CLRV's on paper

runs 50 - 5x  - assigned Flexities on paper.

*sidenote: when Flexities operated on 511 Bathurst briefly during the Pan Am Games, there were two runs assigned to them, and those were also in the 5x range (runs 56 and 57).

Once the routes were formally converted to Flexity operation  (namely, January 2016 board for rte. 510 and March 2016 for rte. 509), the numbering scheme was changed, so that all runs were assigned lower numbers, starting with run 1. This coincided with changing the schedule (i.e. widening the headways) to account for the higher capacities of the Flexities.

Coming back to rte. 514, all runs are numbered upwards from 50, which makes me believe that they all are assigned to Flexity operation on paper.

[nfitz]

3 minutes ago, ttc rider said:

Coming back to rte. 514, all runs are numbered upwards from 50, which makes me believe that they all are assigned to Flexity operation on paper.

Then wouldn't the service summary show all-Flexity rather than all CLRV.

[ttc rider]

14 minutes ago, nfitz said:

Then wouldn't the service summary show all-Flexity rather than all CLRV>

Yes, it would. But the service summary is not flawless. Just look at page 63, where they add up the number of streetcars in service during various periods.

For the new streetcars, the numbers shown in that table do not always agree with each individual route summary. For example, AM peak shows 14 Flexities on 510 and 7 on 509 (total 21). The count on page 63 shows a total of 22. Similarly, Saturday early morning shows 7 Flexities on 510 and 4 on 509 (total 11), but the count on page 63 shows a total of 14 etc.. etc..

[nfitz]

The counts seldom add up.

[Xtrazsteve]

4 hours ago, ttc rider said:

I should have been more specific:

When the Flexities were introduced on 510 & 509, there were two sets of run numbers:

runs 1 to x  - assigned CLRV's on paper

runs 50 - 5x  - assigned Flexities on paper.

*sidenote: when Flexities operated on 511 Bathurst briefly during the Pan Am Games, there were two runs assigned to them, and those were also in the 5x range (runs 56 and 57).

Once the routes were formally converted to Flexity operation  (namely, January 2016 board for rte. 510 and March 2016 for rte. 509), the numbering scheme was changed, so that all runs were assigned lower numbers, starting with run 1. This coincided with changing the schedule (i.e. widening the headways) to account for the higher capacities of the Flexities.

Coming back to rte. 514, all runs are numbered upwards from 50, which makes me believe that they all are assigned to Flexity operation on paper.

Just because the 509 and 510 used 50's range number for Flexity doesn't mean this applies to every route. The TTC does this when multiple routes overlap. With different run numbers, the supervisors can monitor multiple routes without conflict. The 504 has run numbers going up to 47. 514 has run numbers from 50-60 on a weekday.

Yes the plan is to eventually assign all Flexity vehicles to the 514 but right now they are all CLRV's on paper. Anyways, doesn't it even matter? You're just creating a non-sense fuss out of this.

[Xtrazsteve]

It actually looks like 4421 is the preferred car to operate on the 514 due to the final ramp design.

[LilRedDave]

On 6/18/2016 at 9:03 PM, drum118 said:

Say farewell to 4401 as it gets ship to Thunder Bay when 4402 gets here. 4401 D sections well/suppose be replace with the rebuilt D sections from 4402.

No word what car number will be at this time that will arrive pan only. Strong feeling from various personnel, they want the pole gone as soon as they can off the new cars.

The D module from 4402 will not necessarily be used on 4401. 

All cars are to be built with pole / panto combination. It will be many moons before the whole system has the overhead updated. 

[T3G]

In other, marginally related news, the 508 route page appears to have been taken down from the site. I presume that they feel that King is sufficiently served by the 504 and 514 that they no longer feel its existence is necessary. Not really surprising.

[nfitz]

 

13 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Just because the 509 and 510 used 50's range number for Flexity doesn't mean this applies to every route. The TTC does this when multiple routes overlap. With different run numbers, the supervisors can monitor multiple routes without conflict. The 504 has run numbers going up to 47. 514 has run numbers from 50-60 on a weekday.

Well, what's really happening out there today is that the runs are numbered from 50 to 60.  There are two vehicles on run 52 - 4421 and 4163

Meanwhile on 509, the runs seem to be numbered from 1 to 7, with 4419 on Run 1

I'm guessing the only reason that 514 doesn't start from 1, as they are keeping a separate range from 504, which seems to range from 1 to 47 currently.
 

1 hour ago, PCC Guy said:

In other, marginally related news, the 508 route page appears to have been taken down from the site. I presume that they feel that King is sufficiently served by the 504 and 514 that they no longer feel its existence is necessary. Not really surprising.

So if official, then the new 1.1 km of scheduled service on Dufferin and Sumach/Cherry is discounted by the 1.3 km of Parliament and Church where there is no longer any scheduled service. 

Though I guess the former is 2-directional, and the latter still certainly sees a lot of vehicles short-turning and diverting - including a very convenient 506 service on Parliament for the next few months!

[Xtrazsteve]

14 minutes ago, nfitz said:

So if official, then the new 1.1 km of scheduled service on Dufferin and Sumach/Cherry is discounted by the 1.3 km of Parliament and Church where there is no longer any scheduled service. 

 

Though I guess the former is 2-directional, and the latter still certainly sees a lot of vehicles short-turning and diverting - including a very convenient 506 service on Parliament for the next few months!

It's not like 508 was a real service. On paper, sure but we all know how the 508 operates. 

TTC would need to think twice before restoring it. First, they need to figure out how to keep the 501 on time if they were merge together again. Then they need to make sure all trips are fulfilled. Eventually I expect the 508 would just become the Waterfront West LRT. There's no point of keeping it on King once that's built.

[nfitz]

Oh, i agree. Surely most would jump on first thing that's coming, and just change somewhere.  508 just doesn't make sense.

And personally, I think either one of 502/503 should go.  With 514, perhaps 503 is now surplus.  But it does provide some service down Weillington that's useful.  How well used is it in PM rush, I don't go any further into town that Jarvis?

And 502 does provide additional service along Queen East from the Don to McCaul ...

[drum118]

8 hours ago, LilRedDave said:

The D module from 4402 will not necessarily be used on 4401. 

All cars are to be built with pole / panto combination. It will be many moons before the whole system has the overhead updated. 

I was told the 4402 D section was to be used on 4401 by the person who should know best, but things do keep changing.

Only 60 cars are to have poles on them and that will not happen until next year if things stick to the plan. Most of the routes getting the new cars with pans only to/from routes they are on as well detour lines are to be done by year end to allow the start the use of pans by year end.

The cars with pans only will be assign to 509, 510, 514 first, with the pole cars being move to other routes until they are fully pan ready. 511 & 512 are already for pans now.

Even though it means extra transfering from/to the Long Branch Car, I would leave it as is, as it works a lot better and I have yet had to wait for an Eastbound Queen Car at Humber.

How long 4401 will be gone is a good question and it shouldn't be a year like 4402.

[16 McCowan]

Because the route has been running legacy cars this week, the 514 didn't have any rollsigns of their own just yet so I took the liberty to create these myself:

[T3G]

3 hours ago, nfitz said:

  How well used is it in PM rush, I don't go any further into town that Jarvis?

 

To add to this question, how is the traffic from Wellington/York to King/Broadview in PM rush? I'm going to be in town this week and I will need to get between these points in a reasonable amount of time on the 503.

[Xtrazsteve]

2 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

 

To add to this question, how is the traffic from Wellington/York to King/Broadview in PM rush? I'm going to be in town this week and I will need to get between these points in a reasonable amount of time on the 503.

Just watch them on nextbus during 5pm. You'll have your answer. I'll reserve at least 20 minutes to be safe.

[nfitz]

30 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Just watch them on nextbus during 5pm. You'll have your answer. I'll reserve at least 20 minutes to be safe.

The big problem, is the 503 is very sporadic. Even bustituted, it wasn't unusual to see a pack of 3, and then half-an-hour to the next one.

 

If there's nothing in sight, best to walk up to King and catch a 504.  Certainly once you get to Jarvis, it's clear sailing to Broadview, even at PM peak. I really can't speak to west of there - though it's fine when I take it earlier in the day.

[sammi]

4 hours ago, 21 Brimley said:

Because the route has been running legacy cars this week, the 514 didn't have any rollsigns of their own just yet so I took the liberty to create these myself:

It's a streetcar route. Don't forget the short turns. 

[T3G]

1 hour ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Just watch them on nextbus during 5pm. You'll have your answer. I'll reserve at least 20 minutes to be safe.

I tried to do that today, but the 5:19 PM car's GPS signal got lost for about ~10 minutes near Wellington and Bay, and the tracker glitched out while the car that was supposed to be the 5:30 PM departure was at King and Jarvis, and when I fixed it it was at Queen and Broadview, and I forgot to record the times for either, so ho-hum.

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

The big problem, is the 503 is very sporadic. Even bustituted, it wasn't unusual to see a pack of 3, and then half-an-hour to the next one.

 

If there's nothing in sight, best to walk up to King and catch a 504.  Certainly once you get to Jarvis, it's clear sailing to Broadview, even at PM peak. I really can't speak to west of there - though it's fine when I take it earlier in the day.

The 504 will probably be decently suitable, I just wanted to try out the 503 since I've never ridden it before and it would be a novelty. Good thing we have the trackers these days.

[Xtrazsteve]

I don't even remember when I taken the 503 last. The most memorable time was taking it with an Malvern Orion V that looped on the east side of VP while Bingham loop was being redone. Yet that loop still needs a new accessible platform.

Take the 504 if you have to. Sometimes, the 503 never shows up when you want it.

[CLRV4037]

9 hours ago, nfitz said:

And personally, I think either one of 502/503 should go.  With 514, perhaps 503 is now surplus.  But it does provide some service down Weillington that's useful.  How well used is it in PM rush, I don't go any further into town that Jarvis?

 

And 502 does provide additional service along Queen East from the Don to McCaul ...

When I was driving the 502, there was a lot of dedicated riders that asked for and waited for the 503. It is a useful route and should not be removed.

[Xtrazsteve]

3 hours ago, sammi said:

It's a streetcar route. Don't forget the short turns. 

BTW, it's not 514 DUFFERIN, it should be DUFFERIN GATE VIA KING (official TTC name) to indicate it goes to the EX. Also should be 514 DISTILLERY VIA KING