Streetcar News

[Mike]

How many million times have we gone over this. Both cars have test equipment. .

Alright, buddy calm the hell down. I don't recall reading anything here about 4043, just 4041. How about you back yourself up and give me a link (or 2 since its been discussed many many times) to where 4043's new equipment was discussed?

[CLRV4037]

Alright, buddy calm the hell down. I don't recall reading anything here about 4043, just 4041. How about you back yourself up and give me a link (or 2 since its been discussed many many times) to where 4043's new equipment was discussed?

Oh I'm quite calm. I suppose not everyone treats a hyperbole the same way.

Its all on the old board, probably on the stupid 38429 page (thats another hyperbole) thread of sightings.

Anyway, my sources are first hand. I.e Me myself and I seeing, driving and reading the prototype notices for the cars with the test equipment.

I can't go into technical detail on any of these, because its all internal to the TTC.

What is observable from the street however...4043 was the car that was smacked by the cement truck a while back on Fleet St. It was out of service for a year or so, and came back into service with a few modifications. A minor modifcation are the ALRV style wipers, and a major prototype is the different style of air compressor, which is alot quieter and produces a "hydraulic pump" like sound.

Updates on this car were both published in the Coupler, and came up over an extended period of time probably in that sightings thread or something else that also had 20391 pages (yes! another hyper...ok you get the point now).

[Mike]

Oh I'm quite calm. I suppose not everyone treats a hyperbole the same way.

Its all on the old board, probably on the stupid 38429 page (thats another hyperbole) thread of sightings.

Anyway, my sources are first hand. I.e Me myself and I seeing, driving and reading the prototype notices for the cars with the test equipment.

I can't go into technical detail on any of these, because its all internal to the TTC.

What is observable from the street however...4043 was the car that was smacked by the cement truck a while back on Fleet St. It was out of service for a year or so, and came back into service with a few modifications. A minor modifcation are the ALRV style wipers, and a major prototype is the different style of air compressor, which is alot quieter and produces a "hydraulic pump" like sound.

Updates on this car were both published in the Coupler, and came up over an extended period of time probably in that sightings thread or something else that also had 20391 pages (yes! another hyper...ok you get the point now).

I do remember reading about the wipers and of course about the accident that the car was in. On the old board, I didn't read everything in the sightings thread because there were just too many useless sightings in it that made it difficult to extract anything useful out of it.

[Orion V]

I do remember reading about the wipers and of course about the accident that the car was in. On the old board, I didn't read everything in the sightings thread because there were just too many useless sightings in it that made it difficult to extract anything useful out of it .

Which is why they should revise the rules of this board to be more strict; thereby eliminating threads like "Accessible Violation" or separate sightings for EACH OF TTC buses (Eg. "79xx sightings" thread was created after ALL 80 7900s were already spotted), or the famous "General Bus Sightings" thread.

And for those of you who considers my post (this current one) useless, it maybe useless, but I'm using it to make a point, that's it.

[leylandvictory2]

to be fair. Some of us weren't members when the old board existed. I am sure people are unwilling to go through zillion posts just to find their answers

[Neil]

to be fair. Some of us weren't members when the old board existed. I am sure people are unwilling to go through zillion posts just to find their answers

This is a good reason for us to control the *quality* of the posts... so that one has to spend less time going through useless posts to get to what's relevant. Much of the discussion that is housed on this message board is useless.

[2044]

From now on sightings should just be strictly in the sighting threads and everything else that is important should be posted in another thread. Such as the information Mike was looking for, if the old board had a thread like this, it would have been easier to find that information. For example, things like mechanical changes to streetcars are posted here, while something like "4041 spotted on the 510." is posted in the sightings threads.

[shambala]

MILLER IN RUSH FOR IMPROVED TTC CARS. Rob Granatstein City Hall Bureau Mayor David Miller has vowed to push very strongly to accelerate the arrival of low-floor streetcars in Toronto.

The city's aging Red Rockets are completely inaccessible for the disabled, as well as being heavy and ancient technologically.

But the TTC voted to refurbish 196 streetcars -- complete with new propulsion systems, air conditioning and other improvements -- at a cost of about $1 million each.

By doing that, new accessible streetcars wouldn't roll out until 2018. In that year, only 10 new-style vehicles would be on the streets.

"The resolution at council to simply refurbish the old ones simply isn't good enough," Miller told the Toronto Sun editorial board last week. "We have to do much better."

ALREADY IN THE WORKS

The TTC's Rick Cornacchia said a plan is already in the works to speed up the arrival of the low-floor streetcars.

Instead of refurbishing 196 of the 30-year-old streetcars, the TTC would fix up 100 and buy 64 new, state-of-the-art, longer, low-floor streetcars.

The problem is the first new vehicles still wouldn't get here until 2011. Then because of all the testing needed to be done, they would spend a year on the streets in test mode.

So it would be 2012 when Toronto saw 30 new streetcars.

"That's best case," Cornacchia said.

One problem is that Toronto has a curvature on its tracks seen in no other city. Cornacchia said it will require a lot of engineering to make new cars work here, meaning they can't be bought off the shelf.

In the city's disabled community, there's just one mantra: The sooner the better.

"I would welcome them for sure," said Eli Shupak, 32, who wheels around Toronto in his electric wheelchair.

"There's no acceptable transit where there are streetcars," Shupak said.

[MT0603]

Last Saturday while Riding the 509 I noticed the tracks leading to the Fleet loop were cemented and paved over. It looked pretty fresh so I was wondering when did this happened?

Christiano

[38 Highland Creek]

MILLER IN RUSH FOR IMPROVED TTC CARS. Rob Granatstein City Hall Bureau Mayor David Miller has vowed to push very strongly to accelerate the arrival of low-floor streetcars in Toronto.

The city's aging Red Rockets are completely inaccessible for the disabled, as well as being heavy and ancient technologically.

But the TTC voted to refurbish 196 streetcars -- complete with new propulsion systems, air conditioning and other improvements -- at a cost of about $1 million each.

By doing that, new accessible streetcars wouldn't roll out until 2018. In that year, only 10 new-style vehicles would be on the streets.

"The resolution at council to simply refurbish the old ones simply isn't good enough," Miller told the Toronto Sun editorial board last week. "We have to do much better."

ALREADY IN THE WORKS

The TTC's Rick Cornacchia said a plan is already in the works to speed up the arrival of the low-floor streetcars.

Instead of refurbishing 196 of the 30-year-old streetcars, the TTC would fix up 100 and buy 64 new, state-of-the-art, longer, low-floor streetcars.

The problem is the first new vehicles still wouldn't get here until 2011. Then because of all the testing needed to be done, they would spend a year on the streets in test mode.

So it would be 2012 when Toronto saw 30 new streetcars.

"That's best case," Cornacchia said.

One problem is that Toronto has a curvature on its tracks seen in no other city. Cornacchia said it will require a lot of engineering to make new cars work here, meaning they can't be bought off the shelf.

In the city's disabled community, there's just one mantra: The sooner the better.

"I would welcome them for sure," said Eli Shupak, 32, who wheels around Toronto in his electric wheelchair.

"There's no acceptable transit where there are streetcars," Shupak said.

Will the new streetcars have electronic destination signs like the TTC buses? Can't wait to see one.

[smallspy]

Last Saturday while Riding the 509 I noticed the tracks leading to the Fleet loop were cemented and paved over. It looked pretty fresh so I was wondering when did this happened?

Christiano

A couple of months ago (prior to September, IIRC). The trackage was in such rough shape that derailments became a worry, so they temporarily removed the the switches, and therefore the loop, from service. When the trackage on Fleet Street gets rebuilt next year, new specialwork will be installed.

Dan

[Mike]

A couple of months ago (prior to September, IIRC). The trackage was in such rough shape that derailments became a worry, so they temporarily removed the the switches, and therefore the loop, from service. When the trackage on Fleet Street gets rebuilt next year, new specialwork will be installed.

Revenue service from Fleet loop (on the 509) was removed effective February 13, 2006.

[jasonh]

I've got another streetcar question!

What is the top speed of a CLRV/ALRV? (On Paper)

and

What would the usual top speed be on track sections like the Queensway and Lake Shore Blvd West at night?

I'm really curious. At night I've seen the CLRV's take on cars, and win :angry:

[6688]

What would the usual top speed be on track sections like the Queensway and Lake Shore Blvd West at night?

I'm really curious. At night I've seen the CLRV's take on cars, and win

Top speed is 79-80 km/h before the overspeed brake kicks in, that is if you can get it that far.

It's quite the ride on a streetcar going that fast :angry:

[D. DeLarge]

Spotted 4135 out today, it's missing its front right fleet number.

[smallspy]

Top speed is 79-80 km/h before the overspeed brake kicks in, that is if you can get it that far.

Traction power shuts down at 50mph (~80km/h), penalty brake kicks in at 55mph (~88km/h).

Of course being that the control system was partially mechanical, those numbers have some leeway in them by now.

Dan

[jasonh]

Cool, thanks for satisfying my curiosity guys!

Next question, What does short turn mean on a rollsign and what does short turn mean on the front of a streetcar on a small metal sign by the right headlight/turn signal area?

[MT0603]

Cool, thanks for satisfying my curiosity guys!

Next question, What does short turn mean on a rollsign and what does short turn mean on the front of a streetcar on a small metal sign by the right headlight/turn signal area?

I think it means that the streetcar will be short turning at the loop displayed on the rollsign. However, streetcar drivers don't always flip the sign up.

[38 Highland Creek]

Cool, thanks for satisfying my curiosity guys!

Next question, What does short turn mean on a rollsign and what does short turn mean on the front of a streetcar on a small metal sign by the right headlight/turn signal area?

Short turn on a rollsign: Ask the driver

Short turn on a front: Ask the driver or check the rollsign.

[smallspy]

A "short turn" is when a vehicle is not going all the way to the destination of the route. For example, 501 Queen cars end at Neville Park Loop in the east. If it was running late, a car could be turned around (short turned) at Kingston Road/Racetrack Loop which is west of Neville Park, and sent back westbound.

Dan

[wil9402]

For example, 501 Queen cars end at Neville Park Loop in the east. If it was running late, a car could be turned around (short turned) at Kingston Road/Racetrack Loop which is west of Neville Park, and sent back westbound.

Dan

I've never heard the Kingston Rd/Woodbine Loop at Kingston Rd & Queen refered to as Racetrack Loop, is it called that because of Woodbine (also the name of the racetrack in Etobicoke)?

[jasonh]

Thats about what I thought it meant - EXCEPT it was a 501 westbound car (Kipling to be exact) and it had the front Short Turn sign, but the 501 Humber infront of it and the 501 Roncesvalles did not have such signs on them. It had the short turn sign because It was looping at Kipling vs Long Branch or Roncesvales or Humber loops like they regularly do. Makes sense now.

Thanks Guys

[TheAverageJoe]

I've never heard the Kingston Rd/Woodbine Loop at Kingston Rd & Queen refered to as Racetrack Loop, is it called that because of Woodbine (also the name of the racetrack in Etobicoke)?

He means the old Greenwood race track that was in that area now its all condos and townhouses there. also i think even a park

[wil9402]

He means the old Greenwood race track that was in that area now its all condos and townhouses there. also i think even a park

oh, alright. I learned something new, .

[CLRV4037]

Traction power shuts down at 50mph (~80km/h), penalty brake kicks in at 55mph (~88km/h).

Of course being that the control system was partially mechanical, those numbers have some leeway in them by now.

Dan

Do they ever have some leeway! He he he. CLRVs rarely get up past 75 km/h, the top end accelleration is too slow, before you run out of Queensway (seriously). That and the differences between cars are paramount, some are poky, and others are quick. It also depends on the time of day, a car at 4am will go much faster than the same car at 4pm. ALRVs on the other hand are a little livelier and will easily reach the in and around 80 km/h mark. Ive heard stories of some cars still accelerating beyond 80.

CLRVs were initially designed for 120 km/h max speed. But that won't be acheivable. since the switch for high-rate is bolted perpetually into the low-rate position.