Jump to content

Ontario Line (formerly Downtown Relief Line)


Orion9131
 Share

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, 81-717 said:

Presumably the terms "light" vs "heavy" rail would refer to vehicle weight & structural strength among the other things you mentioned (i.e. mainline rail equipment tends to be built more heavily & designed for greater stresses than subway equipment, which in turn tends to be built more heavily than light metro / tram equipment). As far as length goes, that still stands, since a typical modern tram such as a Flexity is longer than any subway car (in terms of width, a Flexity is only slightly narrower than an A-division NYC subway car).

The weight comparison would be per car. Obviously a single subway car/pair wouldn't automatically become light rail because it weighs less / has less capacity than a 6-car subway train, anymore than coupling 6 CLRVs together would turn them into a heavy rail subway train.

It's relative. And to a lesser extant, regulatory.

 

To things like the freight railways - and Transport Canada - CN, CP, VIA, GO and the like are all "heavy rail", and everything else is "light rail".

 

To transit, "subways" - which are generally defined as multi-car trains operating with some sort of signal separation between trains, level loading and with full separation from other modes - have long been considered "heavy rail", and "streetcars" - lighter weight, frequently single-car trains operating with little-to-no separation between modes and generally no supervisory signalling - have been considered "light rail". The actual weight of the equipment almost doesn't matter, as there have been some absolutely massive cars that ran in mixed traffic on the streets, and some very, very lightweight equipment used on subways.

 

And then the Germans ruined it in the 1950s by taking streetcars, operating them in longer trains and with more (but not necessarily complete) separation. And LRT was born.

 

I think at this point, the best way to define whether a vehicle is "heavy" or "light" is its intended use, and not its physical characteristics.

 

Dan

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I've gone back 6 pages/5 years trying to see if we had a thread for the Ontario Line.  This is the closest thing we had.  Wasn't sure if a new one should be created or this one simply renamed or amended to include the successor Ontario Line.

Anyway, the first set of preliminary technical drawings for the entire line (we've only previously seen segments of it - at least I have) are now available:

https://www.metrolinxengage.com/sites/default/files/appendix_c_-_ontario_line_profile_drawings.pdf

All but three of the stations (Exhibition, Flemingdon Park and Science Centre) have an island platform.  Two of them are terminus stations which runs counter to the TTC's usual policy of having island platforms in that case.  Then again, since this isn't a TTC project...  I don't know what the trade-offs were for these 3 stations.  Still, Flemingdon Park and Science Centre are also elevated stations, meaning they will need 2 sets of elevators for both stations. 

In Exhibition's case, based on the station rendering it looks like pedestrian circulation will be over the tracks for both the Ontario Line and the Lakeshore West GO Line.  You could possibly see an exit directly onto street level for the eastbound platform, but will still need a separate elevator to access the other side of the tracks to get to the GO train station or Exhibition Place itself.

The Queen/Spadina station building itself backs right onto Grafitti Alley.  Any guesses on whether or not it will influence the design or possible permanent name for the station?  It would be interesting to have a back door from the station literally opening onto Grafitti Alley.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gil said:

I've gone back 6 pages/5 years trying to see if we had a thread for the Ontario Line.  This is the closest thing we had.  Wasn't sure if a new one should be created or this one simply renamed or amended to include the successor Ontario Line.

This was the Ontario Line thread here. 

I think this one should simply be renamed Ontario Line which in the beginning it was original planned the Downtown Relief Line before being changed to Relief Line and then eventually to Ontario Line. Plus there is some history dating back well over 10 years with the early planning phase and discussion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Gil said:

All but three of the stations (Exhibition, Flemingdon Park and Science Centre) have an island platform.  Two of them are terminus stations which runs counter to the TTC's usual policy of having island platforms in that case.  Then again, since this isn't a TTC project...  I don't know what the trade-offs were for these 3 stations. 

 

Centre platforms have long been the standard at terminal stations on the TTC's system(s) where possible, as it allows for the best combination of passenger flows to and from the trains, allows for a single location from which passengers can board without having to cross tracks, and still allow for a short crossover near the platforms to minimize the interference trains will have to deal with and thus reducing the minimum possible headways (although other station designs and track layouts can reduce this minimum what a bit more).

 

The set-ups at the terminals of the Ontario Line will change the metrics somehwhat - the crossovers ahead of the platforms are located a decent distance away, forcing a reduced minimum possible headway assuming that only one track will be used for loading and unloading at off-peak times.

 

But at peak times, with the crossovers located behind the platforms, it allows for a pretty low minimum possible headway as one platform would be dedicated to offloading trains and the other to loading them. Is 90 seconds possible? With this track layout, and assuming a decent ATC/ATO system - it certainly seems to be.

 

16 hours ago, Gil said:

In Exhibition's case, based on the station rendering it looks like pedestrian circulation will be over the tracks for both the Ontario Line and the Lakeshore West GO Line.  You could possibly see an exit directly onto street level for the eastbound platform, but will still need a separate elevator to access the other side of the tracks to get to the GO train station or Exhibition Place itself.

Exhibition will be an interesting case.

 

There will be a main, overhead concourse that will service all of the platforms that the new station will contain.

 

According to the preliminary site plan designs, the existing tunnel will remain however, although it will only serve the GO train platforms (and eventually the streetcar platforms as well).

 

Dan

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2044 changed the title to Ontario Line (formerly Downtown Relief Line)
  • 4 months later...

ICYMI (in case you missed it) and sorry if I'm late into this - the preferred bidders have been selected and awarded for the Ontario Line:

https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/rapid-transit/preferred-proponent-teams-selected-for-ontario-line-south-and-rssom-contracts/

In the case of Exhibition Station, I'm not sure how the new e-sports venue (that will be constructed within the Exhibition Place grounds in the coming years) will play a role (pun intended) with the new station on the line? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes Hitachi has been selected, but it's up to them to best determine the vehicle that will fit Metrolinx' service requirements (which are optimistic to say the least).

In short, we dont know for certain. Based on the platform length it's likely and obvious that would be the # of cars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only three mid-line crossovers, and no center/pocket tracks where you can hide a disabled train? Seems to me that they're going to constrain their operations as soon as something happens outside of "normal operations".

There should at least be another crossover just west of University Ave so that you can still link up Exhibition to the University leg of Line 1 if there is an issue that takes Queen/Yonge out of the mix.

I also don't see why they're putting the mainline-side terminal crossovers so far from the stations. If something happens to the tail-side crossovers, there's no way they'll be able to maintain 90 second headways (which are wildly optimistic anyways) with such large zones of conflict on the mainline side.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Archer said:

Only three mid-line crossovers, and no center/pocket tracks where you can hide a disabled train? Seems to me that they're going to constrain their operations as soon as something happens outside of "normal operations".

There should at least be another crossover just west of University Ave so that you can still link up Exhibition to the University leg of Line 1 if there is an issue that takes Queen/Yonge out of the mix.

I also don't see why they're putting the mainline-side terminal crossovers so far from the stations. If something happens to the tail-side crossovers, there's no way they'll be able to maintain 90 second headways (which are wildly optimistic anyways) with such large zones of conflict on the mainline side.

You would think that they would account for centre/pocket trains to avoid the possibility of crippling the entire line should an issue occur. Especially once it is built, building pocket and crossover tracks will be harder versus if done during the planning phase before building out the infrastructure.

If they were strategic and put it before the subway stations, it would at least give alternative options and minimize the amount of buses being pulled from regular routes.

Plus pocket tracks are handy in case they need to insert a train to clear a platform quickly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...