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Manually Calling Stops

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What about aboriginal languages? Many people in Thunder Bay speak Ojibwe. I think we should also call out the stops in Ojibwe. NOBODY can be left out.

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Dave, I have NEVER treated a driver like a robot, Felix T ( I've been on his bus several times) as well as MANY drivers in HSR, BT, OT, MT, and TTC can tell you...

The Oakville drivers are Fantastic! they are so nice it is scary sometimes! I normally take the 07:40 24 from south common mall to GO, then switch to the 08:25 14 to go all the way to Burlington Downtown, I used to take the 14-11-21 connection when I was first going from Hamilton to Toronto, but then figured out that the HSR 11 - OT 14 - 24 - MT 1 Dundas connection is faster by a long shot getting home..

Sorry buschic, I didn't direct that comment to you personally, I just meant the general public. Oh, by the way, Felix is full time scheduling department now. He no longer drives.

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Sorry buschic, I didn't direct that comment to you personally, I just meant the general public. Oh, by the way, Felix is full time scheduling department now. He no longer drives.

I hope he is happy doing that, and can you pass on my congratulations... I'm Very happy for him...

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I actually wanted to speak at the hearings in defence of drivers but was not allowed..

You've mentioned this quite a bit buschic....Which hearings were you not allowed to speak at? And who told you you were not allowed?

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You've mentioned this quite a bit buschic....Which hearings were you not allowed to speak at? And who told you you were not allowed?

the lepofsky hearings, and it was the fact that I am not a "professional" at what I do, as to why I couldent speak...was advised by my lawyer...

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the lepofsky hearings, and it was the fact that I am not a "professional" at what I do, as to why I couldent speak...was advised by my lawyer...

What type of professional were you supposed to be? Professional passenger? Driver? Sounds to me like this was just pushed through regardless of what the people it affected thought. We had another article in the paper on Saturday:

TheRecord.com - Opinions - Letters

Bus drivers are doing everything right

As a blind lady who has been using Grand River Transit buses for two years, I wish to say that I would have more difficulty if the drivers did call out every stop.

When I get on, I flash my white cane and ask the driver to please alert me when we've reached my stop. He always graciously agrees, and I sit within the first three rows so I have a chance of hearing him. He always remembers and kindly waits after I've disembarked to see that I'm safely right side up before he leaves. This has worked perfectly every single time. GRT drivers are great.

Due to the extremely high engine noise on a bus, I am certain that if he announced every stop I would have much trouble discerning my message.

The system isn't broken. Don't fix it. Put your $7 million away and come plow my sidewalk so I can get to the bus. That's how I see it.

Liz Manherz

Kitchener

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Let's also not forget our country has two official languages, we'll need to call them out in french as well.

Only if specified by the transit agency. Ever wonder why the MTO has english-only signage as a standard in the city of Toronto? Because French is not the 2nd most common language, and it's also to keep things simple.

I for one take great offence to your comments towards drivers and stop calling. I pay close attention to when my system isn't working, and make every effort to call out stops properly, not haphazardly unless its right there beside me.

I remmeber over the past year having to call out stops for entire shifts because the system was down, and while I enjoyed it for the most part, I did need something to drink constantly because your throat does get dry. And it also takes a while to get used to calling of the stops without cards. Took me about 4 round trips on Jane, and now I can call all stops to a 'T', even the addresses too! And when I'm feeling extra special (which doesn't usually last long) I call out connecting routes at transfer points. Makes for one long announcement at Lawrence southbound!

"Next Stop ... Lawrence Avenue West ... Bus Connections for Routes 32C Eglinton via Trethewey ... 52 Lawrence West ... 58 Malton ... and 79 Scarlett Road ... This is Lawrence Avenue West."

Of course, in a full shift, that'd happen only once when I felt like it, because it is a lot to remember. Likely why the TTC system doesn't call out connecting routes. But it was always fun to joke when leaving Jane Station ...

"This is a 35B Jane bus to Steeles Avenue and Pioneer Village. Please be advised that the Automated Stop Calling Lady called in sick today, so stops will be called out manually. Next Stop ... Jane Street."

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I for one take great offence to your comments towards drivers and stop calling. I pay close attention to when my system isn't working, and make every effort to call out stops properly, not haphazardly unless its right there beside me.

I remmeber over the past year having to call out stops for entire shifts because the system was down, and while I enjoyed it for the most part, I did need something to drink constantly because your throat does get dry. And it also takes a while to get used to calling of the stops without cards. Took me about 4 round trips on Jane, and now I can call all stops to a 'T', even the addresses too! And when I'm feeling extra special (which doesn't usually last long) I call out connecting routes at transfer points. Makes for one long announcement at Lawrence southbound!

"Next Stop ... Lawrence Avenue West ... Bus Connections for Routes 32C Eglinton via Trethewey ... 52 Lawrence West ... 58 Malton ... and 79 Scarlett Road ... This is Lawrence Avenue West."

Of course, in a full shift, that'd happen only once when I felt like it, because it is a lot to remember. Likely why the TTC system doesn't call out connecting routes. But it was always fun to joke when leaving Jane Station ...

"This is a 35B Jane bus to Steeles Avenue and Pioneer Village. Please be advised that the Automated Stop Calling Lady called in sick today, so stops will be called out manually. Next Stop ... Jane Street."

I'm sorry you feel that way, but maybe you should come talk to the 400-some drivers here at GRT and see if they agree with you. What I've said I feel pretty much echoes to feelings of the majority of drivers here at GRT, and I'm even going to be so bold as to say I believe it also echoes the feelings of the majority of drivers right across the province (the 400-some at GRT being only a drop in the bucket). If you personally feel comfortable calling out every stop on your route, than so be it, and I'll admit your probably a better multi-tasker than I ever will be, since I'm a spare driver and haven't seen the same route (and therefore the same stops) in more than a week, and reading from the list of unfamilier stops provided to me is far too distracting for me to concentrate on driving the bus safely at the same time. Far from every driver is as comfortable with the practice as you seem to be, and just because YOU, yourself (and I would guess only a small minorty of other drivers) do feel comfortable, why is it necessary to force the practice onto every other driver who feels their health and safety is at risk, and their personal rights are being violated by having to call out every single bus stop??

This issue of calling stops is not a joke to most operators, this is serious, the OHRC has struck quite the nerve with many workers in the transit industry, many operators feel their livelyhood and the ability to do their jobs safely is threatened by this practice, and let's be clear, the OHRC DOES...NOT...CARE; if you cannot understand the reasoning behind it, or the fight against the practice offends you, I'm sorry, but that's just too bad! No one's going to fault you for being helpful to your passengers and indeed humourous when you make your stop announcments, but please be a little more understanding where the other operators are coming from, many of us feel (myself anyways) as though we've been personally targeted and attacked by the OHRC and people who write into the media who have no understanding of what bus operators actually do who decnounce us as uncaring towards the blind, lazy and as people who just "don't want to do their jobs" this issue is extremely important to everyone involved (myself being one of them) even if the debate becomes heated at times.

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I for one take great offence to your comments towards drivers and stop calling. I pay close attention to when my system isn't working, and make every effort to call out stops properly, not haphazardly unless its right there beside me.

We have something in common I guess as I take offence to your undermining the legitimate health and safety aspect of this issue. You have a duty to report unsafe acts as mandated by the health and safety act, that we are all accountable to. Your actions are putting everybody at risk. However, if you want to be a 'chatty cathy' that's your perogative, don't ram it down our throats.

I remmeber over the past year having to call out stops for entire shifts because the system was down, and while I enjoyed it for the most part, I did need something to drink constantly because your throat does get dry. And it also takes a while to get used to calling of the stops without cards. Took me about 4 round trips on Jane, and now I can call all stops to a 'T', even the addresses too! And when I'm feeling extra special (which doesn't usually last long) I call out connecting routes at transfer points. Makes for one long announcement at Lawrence southbound!

"Next Stop ... Lawrence Avenue West ... Bus Connections for Routes 32C Eglinton via Trethewey ... 52 Lawrence West ... 58 Malton ... and 79 Scarlett Road ... This is Lawrence Avenue West."

Of course, in a full shift, that'd happen only once when I felt like it, because it is a lot to remember. Likely why the TTC system doesn't call out connecting routes. But it was always fun to joke when leaving Jane Station ...

"This is a 35B Jane bus to Steeles Avenue and Pioneer Village. Please be advised that the Automated Stop Calling Lady called in sick today, so stops will be called out manually. Next Stop ... Jane Street."

The TTC has an automated system, our politicians do not want to spend money on automated system for necessary accessibility issues, they would rather spend 25 million on rapid transit that is not a necessity in this region. Your bus stops are miles apart, not on every block. Your routes are fairly direct, ours are not. You have buses running every five or so minutes, to miss a connection is not a major issue when another bus will arrive in minutes and take them on a direct route. If someone misses a connection here they can be waiting anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes for the next bus, an hour on Sundays, depending on what route their looking for. You also have a transit commission, transit police and a transit union, we do not. And lastly - You move Toronto, different city, different issues, different needs - end of story.

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We have something in common I guess as I take offence to your undermining the legitimate health and safety aspect of this issue. You have a duty to report unsafe acts as mandated by the health and safety act, that we are all accountable to. Your actions are putting everybody at risk. However, if you want to be a 'chatty cathy' that's your perogative, don't ram it down our throats.

The TTC has an automated system, our politicians do not want to spend money on automated system for necessary accessibility issues, they would rather spend 25 million on rapid transit that is not a necessity in this region. Your bus stops are miles apart, not on every block. Your routes are fairly direct, ours are not. You have buses running every five or so minutes, to miss a connection is not a major issue when another bus will arrive in minutes and take them on a direct route. If someone misses a connection here they can be waiting anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes for the next bus, an hour on Sundays, depending on what route their looking for. You also have a transit commission, transit police and a transit union, we do not. And lastly - You move Toronto, different city, different issues, different needs - end of story.

Actually, I need to correct you on a few things.

1. our bus stops are for the most part, NOT miles apart, in a lot of areas they are relatively close together...

2. yes in a few areas there are fairly direct routes, but not everywhere, most of Scarborough is twisty as are parts of Etobicoke and parts of the old city of Toronto..

3. I can assure you that on MANY routes buses are not ""running every five or so minutes, to miss a connection is not a major issue when another bus will arrive in minutes and take them on a direct route"" a lot of routes not downtown are about every 20 to 30 minute service during the day (off Rush Hour and at night) Yes, there are routes that run every 5-10 minutes (mostly during Rush Hour), but that is only on MAJOR bus/streetcar routes!, most routes are less than 10 minute service even in rush hour!, and on your point on connecting bus routes, because there are so many divisions and so many routes, there is also the thing that a driver cant just call in and ask a bus to wait for a connection, they just dont do it here, I've had it done on GRT as well in Hamilton and other cities as well, but not here...connections in outlying areas are just not possible, and rarely happen.. in fact prior to the massive sweeping route changes and restructuring on November 23rd 2008, a LOT of route were 30 minute service or worse outside of rush hours...that includes during the daytime, evenings and weekends...there also were many routes that didnt run after 10pm weekdays and a few that didnt run at all on weekends.... but many routes IF they ran after 10 pm weekdays were down to 30 to 60 minute service and only ran till midnight.....and we're talking about a massive city with approximate system coverage for over 4 MILLION people... so no TTC is not THAT great for service...

3. I have to agree we are different, but there are similarities in the "burbs....

4A. a Few things I have to explain as a blind person, and this is a fact that VERY FEW sighted people know and even fewer understand, Blind people can, and usually do, after a while of riding their regular routes, we MEMORIZE EVERY TURN and twist of the bus, and in the case of people that are just legally blind (depending on the amount of vision they have) will look for "landmarks" and in most casees Memorize the WHOLE ROUTE as far as their regular stop, and will memorize stop times and connections if it is possible...

4B. When a person is blind we usually get something called Orientation and Mobility Training. that teaches us not only how to travel with our White Cane (in most cases) but also learning how to use Transit ( learning bus stop location, Landmarks, routes to places we need to go, bus directions, route names and where they go, and much more...) We are usually taught to stay as close to the front as possible and to ask the driver to let us off at a certain point, (if there is no stop calling system) We also are taught how to navigate bus terminals and subway stations if needed..

4C. Also ALWAYS remember you as a Transit Driver are More than welcome to ask us to see out NATIONAL CNIB Identification CARD ( infact in most cities it is MANDATORY for us to show you our card. ), we are Responsible for carrying it on us at ALL times on a Transit vechicle and are required to keep it up to date as it DOES EXPIRE, every 5 years for a Adult, Every 2 years for a child/teenager, till the 16th birthday, then it goes to the adult expiry period. For ANYONE that is curious (transit Drivers ONLY) I can provide you with the information on the card and also show you mine as a reference... there are many security features on the card and I have the full description of them...

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4A. a Few things I have to explain as a blind person, and this is a fact that VERY FEW sighted people know and even fewer understand, Blind people can, and usually do, after a while of riding their regular routes, we MEMORIZE EVERY TURN and twist of the bus, and in the case of people that are just legally blind (depending on the amount of vision they have) will look for "landmarks" and in most casees Memorize the WHOLE ROUTE as far as their regular stop, and will memorize stop times and connections if it is possible...

4B. When a person is blind we usually get something called Orientation and Mobility Training. that teaches us not only how to travel with our White Cane (in most cases) but also learning how to use Transit ( learning bus stop location, Landmarks, routes to places we need to go, bus directions, route names and where they go, and much more...) We are usually taught to stay as close to the front as possible and to ask the driver to let us off at a certain point, (if there is no stop calling system) We also are taught how to navigate bus terminals and subway stations if needed..

4C. Also ALWAYS remember you as a Transit Driver are More than welcome to ask us to see out NATIONAL CNIB Identification CARD ( infact in most cities it is MANDATORY for us to show you our card. ), we are Responsible for carrying it on us at ALL times on a Transit vechicle and are required to keep it up to date as it DOES EXPIRE, every 5 years for a Adult, Every 2 years for a child/teenager, till the 16th birthday, then it goes to the adult expiry period. For ANYONE that is curious (transit Drivers ONLY) I can provide you with the information on the card and also show you mine as a reference... there are many security features on the card and I have the full description of them...

I have to say, I have always admired a visually impaired person's ability to get around. I've never asked for fear of possibly offending someone. I could not image how I would fare on a bus under the same circumstances. I can only assume that for me it would be a very frightening experience. However, I am in favour of teaching people to be independant insofar as possible. I've read a few comments about personal GPS systems on Ipods and such. Do you think this would ever become a useful tool for the visually impaired?

Most often sight impaired people have their card somewhere visible on their person. I never ask to see a CNIB card, my immediate concern is that the person is safely seated and I know where they want to go. I try to make things easier for anybody with a disability who boards my bus as well as the elderly or very young who may have balance issues. I would be extremely affected if anyone on or around my bus were to be injured in any way.

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I have to say, I have always admired a visually impaired person's ability to get around. I've never asked for fear of possibly offending someone. I could not image how I would fare on a bus under the same circumstances. I can only assume that for me it would be a very frightening experience. However, I am in favour of teaching people to be independant insofar as possible. I've read a few comments about personal GPS systems on Ipods and such. Do you think this would ever become a useful tool for the visually impaired?

Most often sight impaired people have their card somewhere visible on their person. I never ask to see a CNIB card, my immediate concern is that the person is safely seated and I know where they want to go. I try to make things easier for anybody with a disability who boards my bus as well as the elderly or very young who may have balance issues. I would be extremely affected if anyone on or around my bus were to be injured in any way.

There are Talking GPS systems out there, but they cost $2000 and UP

Thank You for you compliment....I really take it to heart...

One thing you NEED to KNOW though, is that Blind People's Identification SHOULD be CHECKED, since there is now surgeries* to correct a few eye disease's and Laser Surgery, there are people using canes and dark glasses that DO NOT NEED THEM!!! they Are SCAMMING and DEFRAUDING the System and taking advantage of the CNIB and making other legitimately blind people look bad and also they DONT NEED THE FREE RIDE, if they can afford the "magic" surgery*, then surely they CAN AFFOD the bus fare!!!

There have been numerous instances of "sighted" people staling a white cane and using it for bus travel and for getting free rides, also there have been many cases of relatives of deceased or Mentally Challenged blind people USING that persons CNIB I.D CARD, I know this sounds sickening but it HAS HAPPENED in Hamilton and elsewhere... I have heard of many stories from my Driver friends over the years..

ALSO PLEASE NOTE the CNIB CARDS NO LONGER are 2 piece.... CONTACT ME FOR MORE INFO ON THIS....

* ((FYI, OHIP and ODSP, DO NOT cover the cost of these Laser surgeries normally, Especially the ones for RP or MD ))

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QUOTE (buschic @ Jan 22 2009, 03:04 AM)

in⋅de⋅pend⋅ence

   –noun

2. freedom from the control, influence, support, aid, or the like, of others.

This is a major issue. I don't believe anybody here is arguing the need for stops to be called out. This is not an argument between the sighted and sight impaired, IMHO. But to expect driver's (HUMAN BEINGS) to take the place of a machine until Waterloo Region decides to spend the money is BS. If they can find 25 million to implement rapid transit along with a job posting for a Rapid Transit Director at 100,000 to 127,000 salary per year (NOT A NECESSITY) then they can certainly implement an automated system for the visually and hearing impaired. (A NECESSITY). Human rights are applicable to ALL - whether they can or cannot see, hear, talk, walk, touch - whatever the disability or degree of functioning.

There is the right way and then there is the easy way out. There are certain people who just don't get it and mostly these are the people who discriminate. Just as some people are discriminating against the blind out of ignorance of their disability, other people are discriminating against the driver's out of their ignorance of what their job requires of them. There IS a solution here that doesn't trample on anyone rights.

Buschic can see it, which is more than I can say for Waterloo Region and sadly the Human Rights Commission itself.

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I haven't heard any drivers in North Bay call out stops, but I recently read that NB transit is getting an automated system.

Wow! The Region of Waterloo can't afford it (because they want to spend the money on a Light Rail that will never fly in this area) yet North Bay is going with the "automated" call out! Last time I checked I thought the population base in the "Region"s CMA was larger than North Bay?

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Wow! The Region of Waterloo can't afford it (because they want to spend the money on a Light Rail that will never fly in this area) yet North Bay is going with the "automated" call out! Last time I checked I thought the population base in the "Region"s CMA was larger than North Bay?

North Bay, seem to actually want to care about the drivers and avoid fighting with the union...

and yeah, I believe N.B is smaller than K.W.C put together.. Although, I am Very Partial to Cambridge, espicially the Dunbar and Eastdowns Drive area.

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North Bay, seem to actually want to care about the drivers and avoid fighting with the union...

I wonder if Ken Seiling, or any of the Regional Councillors who voted against the Budget request for the system, read this forum? Ken?

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I wonder if Ken Seiling, or any of the Regional Councillors who voted against the Budget request for the system, read this forum? Ken?

I highly doubt you'll get an answer from any of them on here. And I'm almost certain you'd get a politically correct reason for why they voted down an automated system.

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I highly doubt you'll get an answer from any of them on here. And I'm almost certain you'd get a politically correct reason for why they voted down an automated system.

It was kinda said "Tongue in cheek"

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North Bay has higher per capita ridership than KW. It has, iirc, the highest per capita ridership of any city less than 600,000 in Canada.

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North Bay has higher per capita ridership than KW. It has, iirc, the highest per capita ridership of any city less than 600,000 in Canada.

your joking right? I always thought that was Hamilton, cause the ridership is huge there too, although they let to many "free Riders" on

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Hamilton has more than 600,000 people. (Not in the city but in the CMA, and when I refer to a city I typically refer to a CMA.)

I compiled the numbers in a sortable table on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Vidioman/Sandbox2

RP/P/Y and B/P/Y are passengers per capita per year. Ottawa, Toronto, London, Hamilton and North Bay are the top five for Revenue Passengers per Person per Year. For Boardings per Person per Year (this is including transfers), Toronto jumps to first place. The order is Toronto, Ottawa, Hamilton, London, North Bay.

Those numbers are just Ontario cities and I think they're for 2007. They came from someone who works in transit at SkyscraperCity.

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Hamilton has more than 600,000 people. (Not in the city but in the CMA, and when I refer to a city I typically refer to a CMA.)

I compiled the numbers in a sortable table on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Vidioman/Sandbox2

RP/P/Y and B/P/Y are passengers per capita per year. Ottawa, Toronto, London, Hamilton and North Bay are the top five for Revenue Passengers per Person per Year. For Boardings per Person per Year (this is including transfers), Toronto jumps to first place. The order is Toronto, Ottawa, Hamilton, London, North Bay.

Those numbers are just Ontario cities and I think they're for 2007. They came from someone who works in transit at SkyscraperCity.

hmmm, interesting, I used to be able to get HSR's exact numbers when I still lived there, ( I have many friends within HSR/City of Hamilton/ATU 107..... but since just before I moved here, i have not bothered to ask for numbers or stats..just been too busy concertrating on stuff here...

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