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Cardinal Coach Lines (First Canada)


BCT-3122-D800-10240
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Maybe this is the wrong thread for this question, but, with First taking over many operations across the country, and with the coaches in Alberta being relabelled, could this also be seen with transit operations as well?? There are a few conracts here in Ontario, but those vehicles are still shown in their original colours (ex. YRT - Newmarket division)

Go one step further, could we see the paint schemes from the UK, here?? Some of New Jersey Transit's RTS were repainted to Stagecoach colours.... Maybe its just speculation on my part.....

No, I don't think we'll see what you have suggested for a few reasons.

First, the vehicles involved in the contracts are owned by the municiplaities contracting the service out. If indeed First would be allowed to repaint the coaches, then presumably the contractor before First aquired them could have done the same thing. And, if First loses the contact then someones going to have repaint all of the buses. A lot of the smaller BC operations are contracted out, and usually all that the contractor puts on the bus is their name. Something easily changed if the contract changes.

In the case of Cardinal, Cardinal was a private operation. They have operated various services for which they have provided the buses as well. All/ most commuter operations they probably just have the rights to run in that corridor. Not sure about the Airport, but, if the Airporter was contacted to Cardinal the contract includes providing the buses so Cardinal can paint them any way they please. I think they just have certain rights to run the Airporter however. I believe the buses run on Airdrie Transit were provided by Cardinal as part of the whole Airdrie Transit contract, so the buses were in Cardinal's livery.

I can't speak to New Jersey Transit's operations, but it seems there are a lot more privately operated services in the US which might allow repainting of buses to the operators livery.

In the UK, I believe a lot of the routes are owned by companies operating them, so they can paint their buses however they want to run on those routes. I believe they are privatized like transit operations in Hong Kong. However, don't quote me on that. I'm not 100% sure if that's the case.

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  • 1 month later...
First Canada owns Greyhound and Cardinal Coach Lines now. So it seems more like that would be an equipment transfer to me.

Oh and spotted 884 now finally at Cardinals yard as well.

I know they are the same parent company but maybe the bus is still legally paper wise in Greyhound ownership just leased/borrowed to Cardinal?

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  • 9 months later...

I am not sure when this MC-12 ended up in the First/Cardinal Coach Lines fleet, but it looks as though they have already had that one for awhile and it looks as though it may now be retired. But I don't know for sure. Also attached is an image of Setra #587 for First/Cardinal.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42258155@N04/5440515233/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42258155@N04/5440515147/

I know they are the same parent company but maybe the bus is still legally paper wise in Greyhound ownership just leased/borrowed to Cardinal?

Sorry, I am unsure how that works. Maybe someone else would be able to explain that one for you..?

Also, last weekend I spotted 4 Ex-Perimeter units and they are numbered as 9185, 9187, 9192, 9193. They all look the same as the attached image that shows #9187:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42258155@N04/5441129794/ .
Edited by BCT-3122-D800-10240
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I wonder why with Greyhounds bus shortage they dont use First Canada buses?? I dont think theyre lackin any?? And I wonder if First Bus is going to maybe contract out Greyhound runs to themselves(First Bus) and then run them at a lower cost?? Let Greyhound keep all the mainline runs and contract out the rest of the feeders to First Canada, they already opertate Out of Edmonton to Swan Hills,Drayton Valley,Macklin and Grande Prairie to Peace River. I wonder if you would see them operating Edmonton to Peace River.Peace River to Hay River and even Edmonton to Cold Lake or Fort McMurray?? Anythings possible and would be a smart move on their part. OR Another Smarter option Bring Greyhound under The First Canada umbrella instead of operating with Greyhound US and operate in partnership with First Bus Canada. First Management, First maintenance..And maybe even a PARTS ROOM with PARTS !!!LMAO!

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I am not sure when this MC-12 ended up in the First/Cardinal Coach Lines fleet, but it looks as though they have already had that one for awhile and it looks as though it may now be retired. But I don't know for sure. Also attached is an image of Setra #587 for First/Cardinal.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42258155@N04/5440515233/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42258155@N04/5440515147/ Sorry, I am unsure how that works. Maybe someone else would be able to explain that one for you..?

Here's a daytime shot of the same MC-12 as shown in the above images:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42258155@N04/5454151713/ .

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Sorry, I am unsure how that works. Maybe someone else would be able to explain that one for you..?

Also, last weekend I spotted 4 Ex-Perimeter units and they are numbered as 9185, 9187, 9192, 9193. They all look the same as the attached image that shows #9187:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42258155@N04/5441129794/ .

Here's a bit better image of one of the Ex-Perimeter MCI 102-DL3 coaches: http://www.flickr.com/photos/42258155@N04/5462347375/

Edited by BCT-3122-D800-10240
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I wonder if these ex perimeter have been bought by First Bus or if they are just leased, Cause I know they were owned by Century McMynn after the Perimeter Bankruptcy.

That I am not sure of and would love to know that answer. I am curious about the Setra`s and many other coaches that they have received recently. I am almost wondering if the units they are numbering into the 6 digit fleet numbering system are owned by First / Cardinal and the 3 and 4 digit units are leased units.

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  • 2 months later...

First apparently has at least two Prevost X3-45's numbered 603 and 606 ! Not sure where these coaches are from originally though. Also included is a shot of Setra S417 #580.

Setra S417 #580: http://www.flickr.co...ges/5738050801/

Prevost X3-45 #603: http://www.flickr.co...ges/5738050573/

Prevost X3-45 #606: http://www.flickr.co...ges/5738601140/ and http://www.flickr.co...ges/5738050653/ !

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Found several more First Canada X3-45's this morning. Quite curious how many of these they now have. I am also suspecting that any of the coaches not numbered in their 6 digit numbering system may be leases. Here's some images: http://www.flickr.com/photos/vehicle-image...57626097232542/

Edited by BCT-3122-D800-10240
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  • 7 months later...

I started a new Wiki page for First Canada, as the units are no longer operating under the Cardinal name so putting them there is inaccurate.

http://cptdb.ca/wiki...le=First_Canada

The intention is to have any coach with just the First Canada logo on it on there, formerly operated by Cardinal or not, and all new spottings!

I'll have to go through this thread and photos and add the X3-45s like 630!

But here are my catches of the day which prompted me to make the change:

First_Canada_9185.jpg

First_Canada_2801.jpg

First_Canada_121282.jpg

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  • 1 year later...

I updated my First Canada gallery about a week and a half ago. A variety of coach photos including some MCI, Prevost and Setra. Most of the photos were taken in Fort McMurray as First Canada does a lot of contracted work shuttling oil industry related workers up in Northern Alberta.

http://www.kevinsbusrail.com/cardinal.html

A few previews here. Please do not quote images, thank you!

crd_604.jpg

crd_628rear.jpg

crd_784.jpg

crd_566.jpg

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It's too bad Stan Webber decided to sell Cardinal to FirstGroup. I worked for them in Ft. Mac for 18 months and never encountered a bus operation like FirstCanada early on in my career or I'd have left the industry right away. While I hear Cardinal was a top notch operation when it came to dealing with employees, First is the total opposite - rewarding those who cause drama at the oilsands sites, hiring people who have no business driving a bus (let alone a car), treating experienced employees like children just to make sure the more stupid drivers don't feel singled out, etc etc.

I'd love to see First get booted off Canada's roads before they dumb down the bus industry more than they have, and put more independant contractors out of business by underbidding contracts just to get their foot in the door. At least the school boards in NB & NS were able to award to their contracts to more qualified school bus companies.

JC

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Stan did not sell out completely. Again as mentioned in another thread, any bus still operated by Cardinal with the First name on them, still has "Owned and operated by Cardinal Coach Lines" on the sides of them. This is seen on the Calgary based fleet as well as Airdrie, and I believe Grande Prairie as well. First bought out 51% of Cardinal Coach Lines, but not completely. I do not believe they have bought out the remainder at this point.

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The ownership is interesting for sure. I drove some new yellow buses up north that had First Canada's name on them, no decal stating Cardinal, yet the registration stated owned by First Canada, and insurance papers stated Cardinal Coach. The insurance slip had "dba First Canada" next to the Cardinal name. Saw the same on some ex-laidlaw Corbeils that came up to the oilsands sites as well.

It's a shame he sold out at all to them. I worked for Diversified when they wanted out of the CNRL coach runs and that opened the door to First coming in bigtime. I bet PWT is kicking themselves for opening that door.

Addition - By selling 51% of the company he's lost control to the majority shareholder. Stan is basically nothing more than an employee with some money or assets in the business by only keeping 49% of his business. However he probably saw the writing on the wall in that FirstGroup was starting to invade the Canadian bus business and would eventually submit lowball bids against his contracts as they came up for renewal. Better to get some money and a job out of the whole deal vs. having to sell off an entire bus fleet after losing contracts.

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  • 1 month later...

Setra S417 #568 is back in Calgary and parked near the body shop with some fairly severe damage near the rear of the coach that looks like it started inside the passenger compartment. I am not sure how old these Setra's are but I believe they are at least 7 years old at this point. I am doubting this coach will be repaired and it it will more than likely scrapped.

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