MiWay

[ngdvd]

17 hours ago, miway.photos said:

I was looking back on the messages regarding the renaming of routes in this forum, I think the route 108 Mdv. Business Express used to be route 82 Financial right up until its cancellation in 2013, its replacement was the 108.

Yeah, it's hard to keep track of the numbers, since they kept 108 as 82/82A for the longest time, even after changing the 87 Sheridan Express to 230, introducing 201 and 202, then introducing the 102, 109 and 110...

[miway.photos]

14 hours ago, ngdvd said:

Yeah, it's hard to keep track of the numbers, since they kept 108 as 82/82A for the longest time, even after changing the 87 Sheridan Express to 230, introducing 201 and 202, then introducing the 102, 109 and 110...

I get what you mean! Yeah it’s hard to keep track of them all. I read here a message regarding route 25 and I was like “we have a 25?” Then I remembered that, it was 25: traders loop.

[ngdvd]

15 hours ago, miway.photos said:

I get what you mean! Yeah it’s hard to keep track of them all. I read here a message regarding route 25 and I was like “we have a 25?” Then I remembered that, it was 25: traders loop.

lol, 25 Traders Loop. It used to be a real Traders Loop, but now it's more a 25 Watline Loop, replacing the 67 Cantay. Before that it was the 25 Britannia Industrial (from Hurontario).

On that note, the new announcement has made it official: 9 Rathburn-Thomas will henceforth be known as 9 Rathburn and 18 McLaughlin-Derry as 18 Derry. So we will have both the 9 Rathburn AND the 20 Rathburn, and the 18 Derry AND the 42 Derry. Thank you for simplifying things for us, MiWay!

Renaming the 87 after a very small street that it does not serve, which is actually served instead by the 7, 43, and 74, will also be extremely helpful to riders.

 

https://www.mississauga.ca/miway-transit/announcements/some-bus-route-names-will-change-on-monday-july-1/

[JazzyJay729]

19 hours ago, ngdvd said:

lol, 25 Traders Loop. It used to be a real Traders Loop, but now it's more a 25 Watline Loop, replacing the 67 Cantay. Before that it was the 25 Britannia Industrial (from Hurontario).

On that note, the new announcement has made it official: 9 Rathburn-Thomas will henceforth be known as 9 Rathburn and 18 McLaughlin-Derry as 18 Derry. So we will have both the 9 Rathburn AND the 20 Rathburn, and the 18 Derry AND the 42 Derry. Thank you for simplifying things for us, MiWay!

Renaming the 87 after a very small street that it does not serve, which is actually served instead by the 7, 43, and 74, will also be extremely helpful to riders.

 

https://www.mississauga.ca/miway-transit/announcements/some-bus-route-names-will-change-on-monday-july-1/

Yeah, I noticed that too. Renaming it 18 Derry isn’t so bad since it basically mirrors the route 42 from McLaughlin to Westwood (most of the route.)

But having it be called 9 Rathburn when it only covers the portion of Rathburn west of City Centre (compared to route 20 which covers most of Rathburn) can be a bit confusing. The route 9 also covers Eglinton, Credit Valley, Erin Mills TC, and Thomas (so not exactly great for a one word route name.)

[Gil]

On 6/18/2024 at 6:12 PM, ngdvd said:

Yeah, it's hard to keep track of the numbers, since they kept 108 as 82/82A for the longest time, even after changing the 87 Sheridan Express to 230, introducing 201 and 202, then introducing the 102, 109 and 110...

The 80-series were the original express routes that Mississauga Transit operated.  They migrated to the 200-series initially probably to distinguish them from the old 100-series routes used on weekends from the 80s and 90s.  The 200s were initially just weekday rush hour express routes, but with the introduction of the 110 UNIVERSITY EXPRESS which ran all day and eventual extension of service hours the 200s eventually transitioned to 100s.  I do like the distinction of weekday peak, weekday all day and 7-day service between the 70/80s, 100s and 200s and wish they'd be more consistent with the numbering.

On 6/20/2024 at 12:15 AM, ngdvd said:

lol, 25 Traders Loop. It used to be a real Traders Loop, but now it's more a 25 Watline Loop, replacing the 67 Cantay. Before that it was the 25 Britannia Industrial (from Hurontario).

On that note, the new announcement has made it official: 9 Rathburn-Thomas will henceforth be known as 9 Rathburn and 18 McLaughlin-Derry as 18 Derry. So we will have both the 9 Rathburn AND the 20 Rathburn, and the 18 Derry AND the 42 Derry. Thank you for simplifying things for us, MiWay!

Renaming the 87 after a very small street that it does not serve, which is actually served instead by the 7, 43, and 74, will also be extremely helpful to riders.

 

https://www.mississauga.ca/miway-transit/announcements/some-bus-route-names-will-change-on-monday-july-1/

The Skymark portion of the 87 MEADOWVALE-SKYMARK name stems from the then incomplete Transitway and all of the routes serving stops on Skymark, which was called Skymark Hub.  Even the express routes that would eventually run through Renforth Station were initially run through Skymark Hub to facilitate connections and transfers.  The previous incarnation of 89 MEADOWVALE EXPRESS which ran to either Islington or Kipling depending on the year had it's name reassigned to the 109 and the route was truncated to Skymark with the introduction of the 109.  Maybe it would be better if they called it Commerce instead?  The 87 only serves Skymark on it's first westbound stop.  It usually lays over on Commerce if it doesn't go through Renforth Station (which it should do officially) and everyone gets off.

On 6/20/2024 at 7:32 PM, JazzyJay729 said:

Yeah, I noticed that too. Renaming it 18 Derry isn’t so bad since it basically mirrors the route 42 from McLaughlin to Westwood (most of the route.)

But having it be called 9 Rathburn when it only covers the portion of Rathburn west of City Centre (compared to route 20 which covers most of Rathburn) can be a bit confusing. The route 9 also covers Eglinton, Credit Valley, Erin Mills TC, and Thomas (so not exactly great for a one word route name.)

Splitting the 19 HURONTARIO into 2 HURONTARIO and 17 HURONTARIO was an unfortunate precedent for MiWay.  They could have at least put a SOUTH and NORTH respectively or named them Port Credit and Brampton.  Having duplicate route names with different numbers reminds me of systems like Ottawa or Vancouver where routes don't commonly have names and are simply numbered along with the destination.  The 18 could really have just been assigned a branch letter of the 42 DERRY.  The introduction of the 50 CHURCHILL MEADOWS means the 9 stays on Thomas until all the way to Ninth Line, so THOMAS could have worked as a name.

[miway.photos]

2 hours ago, Gil said:

The 80-series were the original express routes that Mississauga Transit operated.  They migrated to the 200-series initially probably to distinguish them from the old 100-series routes used on weekends from the 80s and 90s.  The 200s were initially just weekday rush hour express routes, but with the introduction of the 110 UNIVERSITY EXPRESS which ran all day and eventual extension of service hours the 200s eventually transitioned to 100s.  I do like the distinction of weekday peak, weekday all day and 7-day service between the 70/80s, 100s and 200s and wish they'd be more consistent with the numbering.

The Skymark portion of the 87 MEADOWVALE-SKYMARK name stems from the then incomplete Transitway and all of the routes serving stops on Skymark, which was called Skymark Hub.  Even the express routes that would eventually run through Renforth Station were initially run through Skymark Hub to facilitate connections and transfers.  The previous incarnation of 89 MEADOWVALE EXPRESS which ran to either Islington or Kipling depending on the year had it's name reassigned to the 109 and the route was truncated to Skymark with the introduction of the 109.  Maybe it would be better if they called it Commerce instead?  The 87 only serves Skymark on it's first westbound stop.  It usually lays over on Commerce if it doesn't go through Renforth Station (which it should do officially) and everyone gets off.

Splitting the 19 HURONTARIO into 2 HURONTARIO and 17 HURONTARIO was an unfortunate precedent for MiWay.  They could have at least put a SOUTH and NORTH respectively or named them Port Credit and Brampton.  Having duplicate route names with different numbers reminds me of systems like Ottawa or Vancouver where routes don't commonly have names and are simply numbered along with the destination.  The 18 could really have just been assigned a branch letter of the 42 DERRY.  The introduction of the 50 CHURCHILL MEADOWS means the 9 stays on Thomas until all the way to Ninth Line, so THOMAS could have worked as a name.

MiWay literally could have just given back the 42A designation, much like what they did with the 57 to 57A for the airport infield loop trips. 
 

Would cause less confusion I think.

[drum118]

5 hours ago, Gil said:

The 80-series were the original express routes that Mississauga Transit operated.  They migrated to the 200-series initially probably to distinguish them from the old 100-series routes used on weekends from the 80s and 90s.  The 200s were initially just weekday rush hour express routes, but with the introduction of the 110 UNIVERSITY EXPRESS which ran all day and eventual extension of service hours the 200s eventually transitioned to 100s.  I do like the distinction of weekday peak, weekday all day and 7-day service between the 70/80s, 100s and 200s and wish they'd be more consistent with the numbering.

The Skymark portion of the 87 MEADOWVALE-SKYMARK name stems from the then incomplete Transitway and all of the routes serving stops on Skymark, which was called Skymark Hub.  Even the express routes that would eventually run through Renforth Station were initially run through Skymark Hub to facilitate connections and transfers.  The previous incarnation of 89 MEADOWVALE EXPRESS which ran to either Islington or Kipling depending on the year had it's name reassigned to the 109 and the route was truncated to Skymark with the introduction of the 109.  Maybe it would be better if they called it Commerce instead?  The 87 only serves Skymark on it's first westbound stop.  It usually lays over on Commerce if it doesn't go through Renforth Station (which it should do officially) and everyone gets off.

Splitting the 19 HURONTARIO into 2 HURONTARIO and 17 HURONTARIO was an unfortunate precedent for MiWay.  They could have at least put a SOUTH and NORTH respectively or named them Port Credit and Brampton.  Having duplicate route names with different numbers reminds me of systems like Ottawa or Vancouver where routes don't commonly have names and are simply numbered along with the destination.  The 18 could really have just been assigned a branch letter of the 42 DERRY.  The introduction of the 50 CHURCHILL MEADOWS means the 9 stays on Thomas until all the way to Ninth Line, so THOMAS could have worked as a name.

I stand to be corrected, but did the 2 and the 17 existed until Feb 2000 when the 19 replace them??? Service was about every 6 minute south of CCTT with a bus doing both routes every 18 minutes.

Feb 2000 saw the 19 running 11-13 minutes, but was standard along the route that you wouldn't see a bus for at least 45 minutes running in packs of 3-5 60' buses. This started me on the road of what I am doing today trying make a better transit system since 2000 as well how a network for the GTA can work.

Service on Hurontario has been downgraded to the point BT offer better service north of CCTT even for the 103 these days. 

Mississauga would be better off turning the 17 over to BT since they can provide better service than they can.

Once the LRT is up and running in 2026, it will be a spit route regardless if the loop is ready then or not so riders can take a joyrider when the loop finally opens. There been talk of running service bypassing the loop, but only talk at this time.

There is a big mess heading toward Burnhamthorpe intersection in July or August as the original T connection for the loop has been taken off the table that was stated back in 2019-2022 would take place to a single track. This is a money grabber since the project is already overbudget and 2 years behind schedule. If it is built as a single track, the whole intersection will have to be torn up and rebuilt for the T connection. The city is not thrill with this plan and has spoken about it this year and at another meeting if it hasn't happen in the last week or in the coming weeks. Do to the election, ML has been close doors on a number of issues.

There is no funds in place for the loop nor has a revised EA has started for the larger loop. If the T is not in place when the line starts service, the line south of CCTT will be out of service close to 6 months to the work and MT has no spare buses to cover the bus service in place of the LRT.

No one has an idea what is plan for the new transit hub on the northside of Rathburn that would see the Transitway and station underground as originally plan since Hazel couldn't find the $20 million to build the tunnel to the BRT station under the existing CCTT to go under Hurontario St as well to the west Transitway.

The city needs to rethink route numbering as well route names along getting away of using north, south, east and west as it is confusing to riders and the only system in the GTA doing it or systems I have seen and used,

[miway.photos]

5 hours ago, drum118 said:

I stand to be corrected, but did the 2 and the 17 existed until Feb 2000 when the 19 replace them??? Service was about every 6 minute south of CCTT with a bus doing both routes every 18 minutes.

There was a different incarnation of route 2 Hurontario before 2000, but it seems that it was cancelled in 1994. 

The last route to use No. 17 was route 17 Timberlea. It served Airport corporate area and brought them down to Islington from 1979-2013. It was replaced by the 72: Timberlea, and then that got cancelled and service was partially covered by the revised 73: Kamato.

No. 17 was not used since then until the introduction of route 17 Hurontario in 2020 I believe.

[Articulated]

6 hours ago, drum118 said:

I stand to be corrected, but did the 2 and the 17 existed until Feb 2000 when the 19 replace them??? Service was about every 6 minute south of CCTT with a bus doing both routes every 18 minutes.

20 minutes ago, miway.photos said:

There was a different incarnation of route 2 Hurontario before 2000, but it seems that it was cancelled in 1994. 

Route 19 Brampton covered the portion of Hurontario north of Square One until September 1994. On this date, the 2 Hurontario was discontinued, and the 19 route number was extended along the entire length of Hurontario (as route 19 Hurontario).

I don't see any indication that the 17 route number was ever used on the Hurontario corridor prior to 2020.

[Gil]

5 hours ago, Articulated said:

Route 19 Brampton covered the portion of Hurontario north of Square One until September 1994. On this date, the 2 Hurontario was discontinued, and the 19 route number was extended along the entire length of Hurontario (as route 19 Hurontario).

I don't see any indication that the 17 route number was ever used on the Hurontario corridor prior to 2020.

Presumably they didn't want to have both a Mississauga Transit and Brampton Transit route 2 at Shoppers World, so when the routes were merged they took the 19's number and the 2's name.

Since these weren't posted for posterity I'm including the Service Changes for April 29 and July 1:

Service Changes start on Monday, April 29

Updated: April 8, 2024

Routes 61 Mavis and 66 McLaughlin will have improved service frequency on weekends, the bus stop for Route 20 Rathburn at the City Centre Transit Terminal will move from Platform O to Platform K, there will be seasonal post-secondary service reductions due to lower demand during the summer academic term and schedule adjustments on several routes.

More frequent weekend service on Routes 61 Mavis and 66 McLaughlin

The routes below will have increased service on weekends to respond to ridership growth and provide more capacity where and when customers need it.

61 Mavis

• Every 16-18 minutes on Saturdays from 7:30 am to 7 pm.
• Every 18 minutes on Sundays from 7:30 am to 10 pm.

66 McLaughlin

• Every 15 minutes on Saturdays from 8 am to 10 pm.
• Every 15-17 minutes on Sundays from 7:30 am to 9 pm.

Please check for updated schedules.

Route 20: Bus stop move at City Centre Transit Terminal

The bus stop for the Route 20 Rathburn at City Centre Transit Terminal will move from Platform O (stop #1408) to Platform K (stop #0766).

This move from the on-street Platform O to Platform K inside the terminal loop will enable easier transfers for customers, particularly those transferring to Route 9 Rathburn-Thomas at Platform J (0597), which is beside Platform K.

New trips added due to high customer demand

The routes below will have additional service based on ridership growth:

• 6 Credit Woodlands: new weekday eastbound trip at 2:46 pm from Dundas Street at Erindale Station Road.
• 8 Cawthra: new weekday northbound trip at 2:57 pm from Cawthra Road and Atwater Avenue.
• 13 Glen Erin: new weekday southbound trip at 7:32 am from Meadowvale Town Centre Transit Terminal.
• 45 Winston Churchill: new weekday northbound trip at 4:43 pm from Clarkson GO Station.

Please check for updated schedules.

Seasonal post-secondary service reductions

Due to lower customer demand during the summer academic term, the following service reductions will be in effect:

• 44 Mississauga Road: weekday service frequency will be reduced to 24 minutes from 18 minutes.
• 101A Dundas Express: will not service the University of Toronto Mississauga (UTM) campus during the summer academic term; customers can instead take Routes 101 Dundas Express, 1C Dundas-Collegeway, 44 Mississauga Road or 110 University Express to/from the UTM campus.
• 107 Malton Express: will not service the Humber College (North Campus) in Toronto during the summer academic term; customers can instead take Route 22 Finch.
• 110 University Express: weekday service frequency will be reduced to 20 minutes from 12 minutes.

Regular post-secondary service will resume on Tuesday, September 3.

Schedule adjustments

Schedule adjustments will be made on the routes below to improve service reliability as traffic and ridership patterns continue to evolve throughout the city.

MiWay will make further schedule adjustments as needed to ensure that services remain responsive to customer needs.

• 4 Sherway Gardens (Saturday and Sunday)
• 10 Bristol-Britannia (weekdays)
• 13 Glen Erin (weekdays, Saturday and Sunday)
• 16 Malton (Saturday and Sunday)
• 16A Malton (Saturday and Sunday)
• 38 Creditview (weekdays)
• 38A Creditview-Argentia (Saturday and Sunday)
• 45 Winston Churchill (weekdays)
• 61 Mavis (Saturday and Sunday)
• 74 Explorer (weekdays)
• 103 Hurontario Express (Saturday)

Please check for updated schedules.

Holiday service

On Victoria Day, Monday, May 20, 2024, buses will operate on a holiday schedule.

These routes will operate at a reduced frequency:

• 17 Hurontario
• 23 Lakeshore

These routes will not operate due to low customer demand:

• 28 Confederation
• 46 Tenth Line-Osprey
• 48 Erin Mills

These service changes help deliver these MiWay 5 service plan benefits:

• Stronger corridors to support a grid network.
• Direct connections between major transit hubs.
• More service on main corridors.
• Improved connectivity with neighbouring communities.

Learn more about the MiWay 5 Transit Service Plan.

Next planned service change – July 1, 2024.

Service Changes start on Monday, July 1

Updated: June 12, 2024

Routes 49A McDowell and 70 Keaton will have additional trips due to increased customer demand, Route 24 Northwest will move to Platform A at Westwood Square Transit Terminal, summer school service will run from July 2 to 29 and there will be additional late evening service on Canada Day.

New trips added due to high customer demand

The routes below will have additional service based on ridership growth.

49A McDowell

• New weekday eastbound trip arriving at Streetsville GO at 7:57 am to connect with the 8:04 am Toronto-bound trip on the Milton GO train line.

70 Keaton

• New weekday eastbound trip departing Matheson Boulevard and Hurontario Street at 4:40 pm.
• This route will no longer travel on Whittle Road due to permanent lane changes as a result of Hurontario LRT construction; instead, it will service alternative stops on Hurontario Street.

Platform change at Westwood Square Transit Terminal

To reduce bus congestion at Platform D due to multiple routes sharing the platform, Route 24 Northwest will move from Platform D (stop #1687) to Platform A (stop #2850).

With fewer buses at this stop, this change will also help support the safety of customers boarding the bus, and Transit Operators driving through the terminal.

Summer school service

Regular 300-series school routes will not operate during the summer; however, there will be three summer school routes that operate from July 2 to 29.

Rick Hansen Secondary School

• 356 Rick Hansen SS: 7:27 am northbound departure from City Centre Terminal to arrive at the school for 7:45 am; 1:45 pm southbound departure from the school.

Stephen Lewis Secondary School

• 363 Stephen Lewis SS: 7:17 am northbound departure from South Common Centre to arrive at the school for 7:45 am; 1:45 pm southbound departure from the school.
• 364 Stephen Lewis SS: 7:26 am southbound departure from Meadowvale Town Centre to arrive at the school for 7:45 am; 1:45 pm northbound departure from the school.

Summer school routes are not required for the schools listed below as they are already serviced by Routes 4 North Service Road and 38 Creditview. However, additional trips have been added to these two routes to align with the school bell times.

St. Joseph Secondary School

• 38 Creditview: 7:01 am northbound departure from Cooksville GO Station to arrive at the school for 7:45 am; 12:57 pm southbound departure from Meadowvale Town Centre to pass the school at 1:45 pm.

St. Martin Secondary School

• 4 North Service Road: 7:28 am westbound departure from North Service Road at Camila Road to arrive at Huron Park Community Centre (closest MiWay stop to the school) school for 7:45 am; 1:45 pm eastbound trip departing from the Huron Park Community Centre.

Regular high school service will resume on Tuesday, September 3.

Schedule adjustments

Schedule adjustments will be made on the routes below to improve service reliability as traffic and ridership patterns continue to evolve throughout the city.

MiWay will make further schedule adjustments as needed to ensure that services remain responsive to customer needs.

• 13 Glen Erin (Saturday)
• 29 Park Royal (weekdays, Saturday and Sunday)
• 35 Eglinton (Saturday and Sunday)
• 51 Tomken (weekdays and Saturday)
• 53 Kennedy (weekdays)
• 101 Dundas Express (Saturday)
• 103 Hurontario Express (weekdays)

Please check for updated schedules.

Holiday service

On Canada Day, Monday, July 1, MiWay will operate on a regular Sunday schedule.

Based on the expected demand, the routes below will provide additional late evening service for customers:

• 3 Bloor
• 7 Airport
• 10 Bristol
• 17 Hurontario
• 23 Lakeshore
• 66 McLaughlin

Please check for updated schedules.

These service changes help deliver these MiWay 5 service plan benefits:

• Direct connections between major transit hubs
• Improved connectivity with GO stations
• Improved connectivity with major areas of employment
• Improved connectivity with colleges and universities
• Improved connectivity with neighbouring communities

Learn more about the MiWay 5 Transit Service Plan.

Next planned service change – August 5, 2024.

What part of the Hurontario LRT construction or road reconfiguration has necessitated that the 70 KEATON no longer serve Whittle Rd.?  The southernmost portion of the street is still served by the 25 TRADERS LOOP and has had service for the past 40 years.  I wonder if they'll consider some stop rationalization as the eastbound 39 BRITANNIA stops both nearside and farside at Hurontario and Whittle.  The farside Hurontario stop was to accommodate the 70 KEATON turning east onto Britannia from Hurontario.  I don't know why Whittle has a farside stop.

And the notice already posted about the name route changes taking effect on July 1, 2024:

Some bus route names will change on Monday, July 1 

Updated: June 17, 2024

To improve the customer experience, MiWay is changing some route names so they are easier to read on the bus destination signs and follow a more consistent route naming convention. There is no change to the actual routing of these services or the bus route number.

This update will eliminate unnecessarily long route names, so bus routes are easier to identify on-street. This is especially helpful at bus stops that are served by multiple routes.

Here is a list of all the route names that will change on July 1.

Previous route name	New route name
1C Dundas-Collegeway	1C Dundas
4 Sherway Gardens	4 North Service Road
9 Rathburn-Thomas	9 Rathburn
10 Bristol-Britannia	10 Bristol
14A Lorne Park Industrial	14A Lorne Park
18 McLaughlin-Derry	18 Derry
29 Park Royal-Homelands	29 Park Royal
36 Colonial-Ridgeway	36 Ridgeway
38A Creditview-Argentia	38 Creditview
43 Matheson-Argentia	43 Matheson
45A Winston Churchill-Speakman	45A Winston Churchill
46 Tenth Line-Osprey	46 Tenth Line
49A McDowell-Streetsville GO	49A McDowell
57 Courtneypark via Infield Loop	57A Courtneypark
71 Sheridan-Subway	71 Sheridan
76 City-Centre Subway	76 Burnhamthorpe
87 Meadowvale-Skymark	87 Skymark
108 Meadowvale Business Express	108 Financial Express

I don't think the route names with the branch letter ever actually had the branch name displayed on the desto like 1A DUNDAS-COLLEGEWAY, 38A CREDITVIEW-ARGENTIA or 45A WINSTON CHURCHILL-SPEAKMAN (as seen in the photo provided by MiWay).  They were more for internal purposes.

[ngdvd]

The old 2 existed until February 2000? Buses were always 45 minutes late on the 19 in 2000? Five artics bunched together was the norm? Drum118's attempts to aggrandize Brampton Transit keep getting more and more outlandish.

Even in 2004, with buses running every 9.8 minutes, I never saw five artics bunched together. There was an extra trip to serve TL Kennedy students, so occasionally there were three buses bunched together, but never five buses. The route had a run time of approx 70 minutes so that is a maximum eight buses in each direction begin with.

And speaking of run times, the delays of the LRT construction is what forced MiWay to split the 19 again and shorten the 103. The delays have also prompted riders to seek alternative routes such as the 66 McLaughlin. Notice how MiWay keeps adding more and more service to the 66? The 66 is overcrowded, the 17 is not. The 66 has three times the ridership of the 17, and yet for some reason Drum118 is talking about increasing the service of the 17.

Average weekday boardings, Q4 2023

• 17 Hurontario: 3491
• 66 McLaughlin: 9972

Weekday frequency

• 17 Hurontario: 17 minutes peak, 20 minutes midday
• 66 McLaughlin: 8 minutes peak, 10 minutes midday

[Orion_II]

Im on a northbound 7 bus right now and just heard over the radio that all 40ft busses returning to garage are to go to Cx. Wonder if anything’s going on.

[drum118]

4 hours ago, ngdvd said:

The old 2 existed until February 2000? Buses were always 45 minutes late on the 19 in 2000? Five artics bunched together was the norm? Drum118's attempts to aggrandize Brampton Transit keep getting more and more outlandish.

Even in 2004, with buses running every 9.8 minutes, I never saw five artics bunched together. There was an extra trip to serve TL Kennedy students, so occasionally there were three buses bunched together, but never five buses. The route had a run time of approx 70 minutes so that is a maximum eight buses in each direction begin with.

And speaking of run times, the delays of the LRT construction is what forced MiWay to split the 19 again and shorten the 103. The delays have also prompted riders to seek alternative routes such as the 66 McLaughlin. Notice how MiWay keeps adding more and more service to the 66? The 66 is overcrowded, the 17 is not. The 66 has three times the ridership of the 17, and yet for some reason Drum118 is talking about increasing the service of the 17.

Average weekday boardings, Q4 2023

• 17 Hurontario: 3491
• 66 McLaughlin: 9972

Weekday frequency

• 17 Hurontario: 17 minutes peak, 20 minutes midday
• 66 McLaughlin: 8 minutes peak, 10 minutes midday

By 2004, the 19 was more stable than 2000. If I was photographing in 2000-2001, a lots of photos would be showing packs of 3-5 buses somewhere along the route.

I have never stated that the 17 needs more service, but having Brampton taking it over since their 502 had taken riders off that route along with the 103. The ridership north of CCTT today is less than it was 10 years ago with the 502 doing the workload these days. The 103 saves riders 14 minutes bypassing CCTT if not more for the 2 and mort than that if using the 17.

The 103 was cut back due to lack of ridership south of the Queensway which will be interesting what will happen when the LRT starts up for that lack of ridership.

As for splitting of the 19, there are 3 different stories as to why. One as notes and the lack of ridership north of CCTT with buses been short turn at the 407 as well Brampton only one route to service Gateway.

While I was at Gateway on Monday, a number of 502 south buses where arriving in pairs along with some saying full. A number of other routes arriving there also had bus full display.

The quality of service for the 103 has been downgraded the past year.

[ngdvd]

6 minutes ago, drum118 said:

By 2004, the 19 was more stable than 2000. If I was photographing in 2000-2001, a lots of photos would be showing packs of 3-5 buses somewhere along the route.

I have never stated that the 17 needs more service, but having Brampton taking it over since their 502 had taken riders off that route along with the 103. The ridership north of CCTT today is less than it was 10 years ago with the 502 doing the workload these days. The 103 saves riders 14 minutes bypassing CCTT if not more for the 2 and mort than that if using the 17.

The 103 was cut back due to lack of ridership south of the Queensway which will be interesting what will happen when the LRT starts up for that lack of ridership.

As for splitting of the 19, there are 3 different stories as to why. One as notes and the lack of ridership north of CCTT with buses been short turn at the 407 as well Brampton only one route to service Gateway.

While I was at Gateway on Monday, a number of 502 south buses where arriving in pairs along with some saying full. A number of other routes arriving there also had bus full display.

The quality of service for the 103 has been downgraded the past year.

They could have extended the 17 to Shopper's World to reduce pressure on the 502. But to avoid putting more buses on the 17/103 might have been part of the reason why they rerouted 18 and 57 to Sheridan College.

The truncation of 103 at Queensway is very annoying as that was my route to the GO station, and the reduced frequency just makes it worse. I tried using the 2 once and it was horrible.

Looking at the 103 schedule today, the scheduled 3:58PM trip from Shopper's World left 5 minutes early but arrived at Queensway at 5:06PM, 16 minutes late. That's 73 minutes for an express route to go from Steeles to Queensway. I don't think we will see the 103 restored to its former glory under these conditions.

It was lucky that the construction started during the pandemic, because now it is a major strain on the resources of both Mississauga and Brampton Transit.

 

[Gil]

12 hours ago, ngdvd said:

They could have extended the 17 to Shopper's World to reduce pressure on the 502. But to avoid putting more buses on the 17/103 might have been part of the reason why they rerouted 18 and 57 to Sheridan College.

The truncation of 103 at Queensway is very annoying as that was my route to the GO station, and the reduced frequency just makes it worse. I tried using the 2 once and it was horrible.

Looking at the 103 schedule today, the scheduled 3:58PM trip from Shopper's World left 5 minutes early but arrived at Queensway at 5:06PM, 16 minutes late. That's 73 minutes for an express route to go from Steeles to Queensway. I don't think we will see the 103 restored to its former glory under these conditions.

It was lucky that the construction started during the pandemic, because now it is a major strain on the resources of both Mississauga and Brampton Transit.

Back when GO Transit was routing it's 21 MILTON buses to Port Credit on an hourly basis I would occasionally take the 8 CAWTHRA to CCTT instead of waiting for the 2 HURONTARIO.  It made fairly good time despite the circuitous routing, it avoided all of the LRT construction.  Until the bulk of the construction is done I doubt we'll see the 103 HURONTARIO EXPRESS return to Port Credit GO.

Most of the ridership north of CCTT is coming from Brampton passengers, so of course Züm will be the preferred choice.  The 103 passengers are mostly travelling within Mississauga.  I don't know how to or whether it's worth reconciling the two before the LRT opens.  As for what to do with local service, that will likely fall on MiWay.

Brampton seems to have shot itself in the foot with both the Brampton Gateway Terminal at Shoppers World and the terminal at Sheridan College unable to properly handle the number of routes, buses and passengers.  Having them so close together also means several routes wind up serving both which adds to the overall congestion.  Conveniently for MiWay it means it can serve one or the other as both are significant terminals offering connections with Brampton Transit. 

[ngdvd]

Yeah, I am confused why Brampton has the 2/11/502/511 enter those terminals instead of just having them stop on the street. Mississauga had the same problem at CCTT so eventually they took the 20 and 26 out of the terminal loop, and the 109/110 all stop on the street as well. Recently they had to take the 18 out of Sheridan terminal due to the overcrowding.

[Articulated]

5 hours ago, Gil said:

Back when GO Transit was routing it's 21 MILTON buses to Port Credit on an hourly basis I would occasionally take the 8 CAWTHRA to CCTT instead of waiting for the 2 HURONTARIO.  It made fairly good time despite the circuitous routing, it avoided all of the LRT construction.  Until the bulk of the construction is done I doubt we'll see the 103 HURONTARIO EXPRESS return to Port Credit GO.

Most of the ridership north of CCTT is coming from Brampton passengers, so of course Züm will be the preferred choice.  The 103 passengers are mostly travelling within Mississauga.  I don't know how to or whether it's worth reconciling the two before the LRT opens.  As for what to do with local service, that will likely fall on MiWay.

Brampton seems to have shot itself in the foot with both the Brampton Gateway Terminal at Shoppers World and the terminal at Sheridan College unable to properly handle the number of routes, buses and passengers.  Having them so close together also means several routes wind up serving both which adds to the overall congestion.  Conveniently for MiWay it means it can serve one or the other as both are significant terminals offering connections with Brampton Transit. 

13 minutes ago, ngdvd said:

Yeah, I am confused why Brampton has the 2/11/502/511 enter those terminals instead of just having them stop on the street. Mississauga had the same problem at CCTT so eventually they took the 20 and 26 out of the terminal loop, and the 109/110 all stop on the street as well. Recently they had to take the 18 out of Sheridan terminal due to the overcrowding.

Brampton Gateway Terminal was designed with street-facing platforms on two sides so that southbound and westbound Züm buses would not be required to enter/loop through the terminal, which saves time. Northbound and eastbound buses do turn off the major roads to enter the terminal in order to provide easy connections to/from other routes. Taking those Züm buses out of the terminal would cause a hardship for riders, as they now need to cross one of two wide, busy major roads in order to make their connections.

Is the problem with these terminals the lack of platform space, or is it layover space for buses that terminate there? With Sheridan I suspect it's more the latter (especially given the layout of Brampton's platforms, moreso than MiWay).

[Gil]

1 hour ago, Articulated said:

Brampton Gateway Terminal was designed with street-facing platforms on two sides so that southbound and westbound Züm buses would not be required to enter/loop through the terminal, which saves time. Northbound and eastbound buses do turn off the major roads to enter the terminal in order to provide easy connections to/from other routes. Taking those Züm buses out of the terminal would cause a hardship for riders, as they now need to cross one of two wide, busy major roads in order to make their connections.

Is the problem with these terminals the lack of platform space, or is it layover space for buses that terminate there? With Sheridan I suspect it's more the latter (especially given the layout of Brampton's platforms, moreso than MiWay).

At the risk of slightly derailing this thread the problem I've seen at Brampton Gateway is both platform and layover space on the Steeles side with buses waiting to pull into an available bay waiting on the street (and anxious passengers trying to make their transfers).  The 511 ZÜM STEELES has 3 branches, 2 of which run through Brampton Gateway while the last one terminates there.  The local 11 STEELES also has a bay there for its westbound service as do the buses on the very busy Chinguacousy corridor.  The buses on the latter do get dropped off in the terminal before the driver loops around to board passengers along Steeles. 

Pardon the dated image for the Terminal from 2018 (it was the first non-.pdf version I could find):

[ngdvd]

4 hours ago, Articulated said:

Brampton Gateway Terminal was designed with street-facing platforms on two sides so that southbound and westbound Züm buses would not be required to enter/loop through the terminal, which saves time. Northbound and eastbound buses do turn off the major roads to enter the terminal in order to provide easy connections to/from other routes. Taking those Züm buses out of the terminal would cause a hardship for riders, as they now need to cross one of two wide, busy major roads in order to make their connections.

Is the problem with these terminals the lack of platform space, or is it layover space for buses that terminate there? With Sheridan I suspect it's more the latter (especially given the layout of Brampton's platforms, moreso than MiWay).

Steeles and Hurontario aren't any worse than other roads like Derry and Mavis. A lot of the routes here already converge along Steeles Avenue West so even if the 11/511 did not enter these terminals, riders still would not need to cross the street to transfer. So the real hardship is for the riders who want to bypass these terminals, and of course also for Brampton Transit and MiWay if they want to increase service.

[ngdvd]

Mississauga transit workers reach tentative deal, avoid strike

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/mississauga-transit-deal-1.7248585

[drum118]

Route 53 return to normal routing either late last night after the intersection at Central Pkwy was reopen at 10 pm or the first thing today. It was funny watching a 53 go north to Elm at 10pm to get back to normal routing. Northbound traffic got shifted to the left on the freshly pave lane as they had to pave the curb lane since the guideway was higher by no less than 3 inches at the pave area that required the the other lane to be pave to smooth the slope area out around 7:15 that prevented doing right turns. Cars where driving through the ESSO station to make that right turn and this force the 53N to be on detour.

As of July 1, route 3 & 8 bus stop on the west side of Hurontario at Elm was removed as a stop and has taken a long time to do it. There are a number of stops like this system wide that need to be remove as well.

Looking at the posted detour map for 103 and 4 that said as June 21 to unknow date, they would not be servicing the Queensway stop going south, yet all my trips on the 103 since that date, I been able to get off it at the Queensway.

Happen to see a route supervisor taping off the Queensway shelter due broken glass and told they they need to do the sound Dundas stop that has broken glass close to 2 weeks but not in service yet. They open the curb lane on June 10, but the bus stop is still on the northside of Dundas. Also told them to look detour maps at the various stops.

[drum118]

July 11 to Sept 19, Route 26 is on Detour from Duke of York To Robert Speck with Burnhamthorpe Intersection Close to Traffic At Hurontario St for Guideway construction.

ML notice shows nothing for the 26 other than traffic using Central Parkway

Notices sent out by ML as well signs up on Hurontario for closure with nothing on service changes yet.

Lets see what planning has come for this detour up as well what the headway will be,

This also effects the 126 starting in Sept.

[Gil]

On 7/11/2024 at 3:58 PM, drum118 said:

July 11 to Sept 19, Route 26 is on Detour from Duke of York To Robert Speck with Burnhamthorpe Intersection Close to Traffic At Hurontario St for Guideway construction.

ML notice shows nothing for the 26 other than traffic using Central Parkway

Notices sent out by ML as well signs up on Hurontario for closure with nothing on service changes yet.

Lets see what planning has come for this detour up as well what the headway will be,

This also effects the 126 starting in Sept.

As with most of the other intersections they've done (it appears they've learned a thing or two to improve the process) Metrolinx will shut down half the intersection at a time and ban turns - hence the detours on Confederation and Central Pkwys.  Since there are no routes currently turning at Hurontario and Burnhamthorpe the detour isn't required.  Service may just get bogged down as through lanes on Burnhamthorpe get reduced.

Still no word on whether they'll install a wye in preparation for the Loop through downtown Mississauga or how far west it will go.  Or is Ford banking on making that an election goodie for whenever he decides to call it?  The Loop is going ahead, and while the details haven't been finalized the wye can be installed now rather than ripping up the street again to install it later.  The routing won't change the need for it.

[drum118]

5 hours ago, Gil said:

As with most of the other intersections they've done (it appears they've learned a thing or two to improve the process) Metrolinx will shut down half the intersection at a time and ban turns - hence the detours on Confederation and Central Pkwys.  Since there are no routes currently turning at Hurontario and Burnhamthorpe the detour isn't required.  Service may just get bogged down as through lanes on Burnhamthorpe get reduced.

Still no word on whether they'll install a wye in preparation for the Loop through downtown Mississauga or how far west it will go.  Or is Ford banking on making that an election goodie for whenever he decides to call it?  The Loop is going ahead, and while the details haven't been finalized the wye can be installed now rather than ripping up the street again to install it later.  The routing won't change the need for it.

There is no through lanes for the intersection on Burnhamthorpe period based on the notice for it. Traffic is to use Central Parkway 100% or Robert Speck or Absolute for left turns as well U-turns.

Based on the timeframe for the closure, the wye (T) is being built considering they were planning on straight tracks only back in May as well June and it confirmed by The Transportation Commissioner in June. He opposed the change to the straight track as it would disrupt the intersection at a future date to tear the straight track out and doing the T that could take up 5-6 to do it right. Everyone working on the corridor were saying a mistake not doing the T connection now. To me, it was a money game since Mobilinx is taking a lost since this project is almost a year behind schedule.

26 and 126 will be effected with the closure as they will have to use Robert Speck/City View/Duke of York to get around the closure 7 days a week.

Mobilinx contract will have to be amended to cover the cost of the loop that still needs a revised EA done for it since it goes to Confederation now. As to when Ford gives the greenlight for both extension, who knows when will that take place. My understanding the Brampton Extension is to be tender once it is known if it will be on the surface or in the $2 Billion extra cost tunnel that may no see service until the early 30's since Brampton wants to tear down the existing downtown and removed the old creek tunnel. They don't want any hole in the downtown to remove the TBM and open to the idea of removing it from the side of the station.  Mobilinx will still be responsible for operating the extension if X builds it that will only have x years maintenance by x to match the end date of Mobilinx 30 year contract. This also applies to the loop. It been done this way the the whole line can see a new 30 year contract with only party looking after it than 2 if Mobilinx cannot do the Brampton Extension.

Someone has to make a decision soon for the Steeles Station as it has to be move to the north side so it ready on opening day late 2025 or early 2026 and how is that cost going to be handle to do it? 

The new director of Transit has already stated that she has no spare buses to handle 5-6 months of shuttle service for the south end and why the T connection needs to be built now.

There is still no detour notice for the 26 up on the website

It took 3 months to built the T connection at Topflight after there fix the mistake for it and it was a fully close intersection for 5 months and it cannot be done at Burnhamthorpe without closing the southbound lane 100% which is not going to happen.

The 2 and the 103 will see slow service at Robert Speck like they did at Elm when Central Parkway was close with driver trying to make a left turn or a U-turn to go get to Burnhamthorpe to go west on it.

[MiExpress]

2 hours ago, drum118 said:

There is no through lanes for the intersection on Burnhamthorpe period based on the notice for it. Traffic is to use Central Parkway 100% or Robert Speck or Absolute for left turns as well U-turns.

...26 and 126 will be effected with the closure as they will have to use Robert Speck/City View/Duke of York to get around the closure 7 days a week.

On 7/11/2024 at 3:58 PM, drum118 said:

July 11 to Sept 19, Route 26 is on Detour from Duke of York To Robert Speck with Burnhamthorpe Intersection Close to Traffic At Hurontario St for Guideway construction.

ML notice shows nothing for the 26 other than traffic using Central Parkway

Notices sent out by ML as well signs up on Hurontario for closure with nothing on service changes yet.

Lets see what planning has come for this detour up as well what the headway will be,

This also effects the 126 starting in Sept.

Drum, as stated by Gil the Burnhamthorpe intersection is not closing fully and the 26 (among other routes) will still be able to travel thoroughly at Hurontario. The only restrictions are on turning at the intersection.

 

Straight from the construction notice: https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/upload/v1720022281/Images/Metrolinx/Burhamthorpe_SCHN.pdf

"The first phase of work will begin on the north half of the intersection on Thursday July 11, 2024, at 10pm, until Thursday August 15, 2024, at 10pm. When completed, crews will shift staging over to the south half of the intersection. The second phase is scheduled to begin on Thursday August 15, 2024, at 10pm, until Monday September 19, 2024, at 10pm. During both phases of work, east-west traffic will be reduced to a single lane in each direction..."

During each phase (July 11-August 15 and August 15-September 19) there will be one weekend where the intersection is fully closed. 

"In order to expedite this work, each phase of guideway installation will consist of a weekend of continuous construction from Friday night to Monday morning..."

So there will be no impact to the Burnhamthorpe service outside whatever one weekend is chosen, other than traffic congestion from lane reductions.