MiWay

[Gil]

1 hour ago, drum118 said:

Lot of bitching today regarding that long walk in the tunnel.

60' bus and Route 1 bus bay needs to be relocated as buses over hang and block buses going around the terminal or exiting. Same goes when using the GO bus bays. GO Bus bays being use as drop off. or layover.

Lack of signage at both terminal how riders get from one to the other even with Mississauga personnel on site. Even where riders find their bus.

The stairs in the tunnel that close being replace with a ramp..

GO personnel stated no GO service to the terminal for some time nor what route may service it. Leave this to others since I don't follow GO service other than rail.

Saw someone use the PPUDO elevator today.

Do to an Opp's, the Hub floor has to be chip to allow Presto machines to be install on the main floor.

LCD screen looks good showing not only when bus is to depart for one route, but up to the next 6 ones. 

Route 3 still stops at the old stop on Aukland coming in.

The layout and placement of the 1 DUNDAS seemed problematic based on the various platform assignment map that were floating around prior to opening.  Restricting the 60' buses to the west end of the Terminal seems somewhat short-sighted.  What if they get randomly assigned to one of the other routes or worse yet, demand dictates the regular use of artics on other routes routes serving Kipling like the 3 BLOOR or 20 RATHBURN.

Depending on what and when GO plans to introduce bus service re-allocating the platform space (and subsequent renumbering of the platforms) might be the only way to get more artic platforms into the Terminal.

The MiWay route map and schedule did indicate the 3 BLOOR would continue to serve the mid-block Aukland stop in addition to the stop at Dundas now that the route is making a right turn instead of a left turn.  It's in keeping with serving TTC stops while running in Toronto.

I hope the displays are even just a slight improvement over the display screen at the City Centre Terminal prior to renovations.  The limited graphics use on the screens has me concerned about image burn-in.  If they're only being used to display departure times a simpler LED screen would have sufficed.  If they're going GO's route with interspersing PSA messages I still think it's overkill.  GO can do so much more with their screens in conveying departure information than they currently do (at least at Union, as I haven't seen them in use at other stations other than simply displaying the general station departure/arrival schedule).

The new system maps were probably uploaded this morning as they weren't available late last night.

Weekday Service Map

Express Service Map  The Express map still shows Islington even though it no longer sees any express service.

Saturday Service Map

Sunday/Holiday Service

Do the bus destos serving Kipling still display "To Subway" or have the added/quantified Kipling with the exception of the 26 BURNHAMTHORPE which would need an added "via" exposure.

As for the accessibility features, I had seen it pointed out that the accessible route for a passenger to get from the Kipling Terminal to the subway: passenger gets off bus, 2 elevators to exit the Terminal, the elevator up to the TTC bus platform and then another elevator down to the subway platform.  Given how problematic the accessible elevators can be the only short-term alternative would be to have anyone needing accessible access to Kipling would be to transfer to the TTC before entering their respective terminals.  Ideally there'd be adequate notice of an elevator outage before passengers leave either respective fare-paid zone (I know it doesn't exactly apply to MiWay, but once you leave the Terminal it's fairly difficult to get back on to another bus where you can freely transfer onto). 

Hopefully the steps by the fare collector booth at the subway were actually removed.  It would cut down on one elevator.  The PPUDO elevator would make sense being open and in use today would make sense as it's the opening day of sorts.

[drum118]

Looking at the photos I shot on opening day, the route 1 bus bay problem is cause by having 1 in the bay and another behind it waiting to get in it. Having cars park on the side instead at the south area removes space for buses to layover or bus drivers not leaving enough space for a bus to get in either in front or behind them.

Having a ramp to the fare area is no help to an accessibility rider since the tunnel is too low to gain access to TTC ramp to the bus terminal. Having a ramp from the tunnel to the surface is the best option, but requires more space and remove the fear what to do if the elevator has issues. That is where having 2 elevators in place come into play as it very rare both elevators would be out of service at the same time, other than power failure.

Still working on Jan 3 photos, but here is a Jan 4 shot of the screen.

[Gil]

One perhaps unforeseen wrinkle with the move to Kipling is the connection between the overnight services both the TTC and MiWay provide.  When the subway is not running, buses generally don't enter the station.  The 300/A BLOOR-DANFORTH uses Aukland to get from Dundas to Bloor (wonder if they'll reconsider that once all the work at Six Points is done?) resulting in that mid-block stop southbound.

The overnight 1 DUNDAS service will miss its connection with the 300/A BLOOR-DANFORTH since it's relocation to Kipling, so it will have to do a bit of creative routing around Six Points in order to be able to make the connection.  Here's the notice as it appeared in the Service Updates tonight:

1 Dundas West(2)

Current

• ROUTE 1 / 1C WESTBOUND ONLY ON DETOUR ROUTING TO CONNECT WITH TTC 300 BLUE NIGHT SERVICE ROUTE 1 / 1C W/B ON DETOUR BETWEEN 02:20 AM TO 05:35 AM: AFTER DEPARTING KIPLING STATION R- DUNDAS, L- AUKLAND, R- BLOOR, R- KIPLING, R- DUNDAS TO NORMAL

The routing isn't reflected in the schedule, so it looks like something the may have overlooked.  The order of the stops (Aukland at Dundas, Dundas at Aukland and Dundas at Acorn) will probably mess with Triplinx' system a bit as it still lists the old stops coming from Islington.  This routing theoretically gives passengers 2 stops to connect with the 300/A BLOOR-DANFORTH at Dundas and Aukland. 

For those coming from Mississauga and looking to continue on into Toronto will they be forced off the bus at Kipling while it lays over?  I assume the Terminal will be open 24 hours otherwise people will be stuck at the platform.  Depending on the length of the layover and the schedule of the 300/A BLOOR-DANFORTH you could walk through the PPUDO/parking lot to make the connection if you really wanted or needed to. 

Presumably the overnight service would be the only time a 1 DUNDAS bus could safely exit the Terminal from its platform without having to go all the way around first as there are no other scheduled buses at the time.

The numerous doors in the tunnel are probably another means of locking up the subway station at night.  Whose responsibility is it to lock up all of those doors then?  It isn't really staffed by MiWay or GO for that matter, so the TTC?

[H4 5600]

 

15 hours ago, Gil said:

Do the bus destos serving Kipling still display "To Subway" or have the added/quantified Kipling with the exception of the 26 BURNHAMTHORPE which would need an added "via" exposure.

They now display kipling terminal.

[Gil]

It seems they also recorded the return trip with a time-lapsed video on Twitter as well.  There are also some additional photos of the new Terminal in use. 

 

Also just noticed on the MiWay website that they've added a few more self-serve PRESTO reload machines in the City.  A second one outside at the CCTT and one inside both the Malton Community Centre and South Common Community Centre by the information desk.  With the current lockdown, are both facilities open to the public?  They would be more suited to being placed at the actual transit terminal itself since you can (when open) still load funds onto your PRESTO card at the information desk.

 

[Ed T.]

It's a long way to Kipling station
It's a long way to go
It's a long way to Kipling station
To the sweetest route I know!
Good bye to ratty Bloor St
Farewell Islington
It's a long long way to Kipling station
But Miway's right there

[drum118]

On 1/5/2021 at 7:28 PM, Gil said:

It seems they also recorded the return trip with a time-lapsed video on Twitter as well.  There are also some additional photos of the new Terminal in use. 

 

Also just noticed on the MiWay website that they've added a few more self-serve PRESTO reload machines in the City.  A second one outside at the CCTT and one inside both the Malton Community Centre and South Common Community Centre by the information desk.  With the current lockdown, are both facilities open to the public?  They would be more suited to being placed at the actual transit terminal itself since you can (when open) still load funds onto your PRESTO card at the information desk.

 

They need to be every where since not everyone goes to CCTT in the first place or community centre.

This also applies to TTC as well as since not all riders use the subway or the bus terminal in Toronto. One reason small hand held machines need to be at places that sold the old style fare as it was easy for the rider to get fare there than it is today.

You need to service the public as much as you can outside terminals, subway stations, GO stations to make it easy to get their fare added to their card or a ticket to ride X vehicle. This includes the Day Pass or any type of pass.

Down size for all systems using the Presto system is not only the cost to add machines, but the nickle and diming ML does to these systems for adding stuff, making changes and so on, considering they are charging 6-10% of the system revenue for the joke system. 

The smart card was to save system money and make it easier to use the system, but not in the case of Presto.

The shut down due to COVID-19 is a good example of not having machines in the right place since they are behind close doors like community centre and so on.

[drum118]

When did Mississauga start running buses to Islington Subway Station as well pickup riders at TTC bus Terminal??

[Gil]

20 hours ago, drum118 said:

They need to be every where since not everyone goes to CCTT in the first place or community centre.

This also applies to TTC as well as since not all riders use the subway or the bus terminal in Toronto. One reason small hand held machines need to be at places that sold the old style fare as it was easy for the rider to get fare there than it is today.

You need to service the public as much as you can outside terminals, subway stations, GO stations to make it easy to get their fare added to their card or a ticket to ride X vehicle. This includes the Day Pass or any type of pass.

Down size for all systems using the Presto system is not only the cost to add machines, but the nickle and diming ML does to these systems for adding stuff, making changes and so on, considering they are charging 6-10% of the system revenue for the joke system. 

The smart card was to save system money and make it easier to use the system, but not in the case of Presto.

The shut down due to COVID-19 is a good example of not having machines in the right place since they are behind close doors like community centre and so on.

As it has been pointed out by others in the past the near exclusivity of having Shoppers Drug Mart being the only retailer to be able to load/sell/set PRESTO cards leaves a few gaps in coverage.  Market forces generally don't place a Rexall or Guardian/IDA across the street from a Shoppers Drug Mart.  In other markets PRESTO has partnered up with other divisions of Loblaws Inc. (Fortinos in Hamilton and Loblaws/Superstore in Ottawa).  Could they not make the same partnership in the GTA and possibly extend that to No Fills?  No Frills would likely fill provide some much-needed coverage but the rollout would likely be difficult since there usually isn't a Customer Service desk where the transactions can be made without tying up one of the check out lanes.  Of course just adding a PRESTO load onto your grocery bill would be convenient.  You're unfortunately out of luck if you need to top up your card in an industrial area.  Which leads to the question who else should PRESTO partner up with to improve coverage?

The one glaring omission from the PRESTO Customer Service Outlets map is Pearson's UP Express station.  Granted it's self-serve so that may be why it's missing.  The only significant gaps in coverage in Mississauga would be filled in with an outlet at Courtneypark and Churchill Meadows Community Centres.  Lorne Park, Lisgar (the neighbourhood itself is much further south than the namesake station) and strangely Credit Woodlands and Applewood which is a victim of the above mentioned pharmacy market forces.  For all intents and purposes, the GO station pins indicate self-serve machines as the Milton Line stations are only staffed in the morning and even then they will direct you to the self-serve machines unless you are paying with cash.

PRESTO seems to be going the other way with more and more services/features being available online or through their app.  That still leaves out people without adequate cell phone/data service and those with access to a credit card for payment.  There's still a bit of a lag as I've seen on the GO bus when people have loaded money onto their card and it hasn't appeared by the time they make their trip, which is frustrating for both passenger and driver.  I wonder how many fares they miss when the driver allows them to ride for free rather than force them to pay the cash fare?

[tommike]

are th new xd60 bus runnung yet?

[Downsview34.]

9 hours ago, tommike said:

are th new xd60 bus runnung yet?

Looks like they're in service on the 101 & 109

[Downsview34.]

Miway 2020 XDE60 2051 on route 101 Dundas Express.

[drum118]

https://youtu.be/3btmaZW12mU

https://youtu.be/9LCKSVvLcJY

https://youtu.be/zYbVyy0BVb8

https://youtu.be/bOej0q7mVlU

[newflyerinvero]

Last week, MiWay announced that the 101 Dundas Express wouldn't be running on Saturdays  due to the lockdown. However, both last Saturday as well as yesterday that on Transee, that there were buses on the 101. Was it that those 101's were mis-identified as 1/1C trips?

[Gil]

MiWay also announced late last week that the 6 CREDIT WOODLANDS would be returning to its regular routing into CCTT.  The new system maps still have the Square One Dr. routing listed.  Would it make sense to route something along Square One on a permanent/regular basis?  It would cut down on some of the congestion in the terminal (once everything goes back to normal) as well as providing closer service to the north end of the mall.  Ideally, the route would come in from the east and use the traffic circle at Duke of York to turn around.

The detour notice for the overnight 1 DUNDAS service was taken down on Friday as there is no service on weekends but has not returned.  Are they just foregoing the connection with the Blue Night Service and forcing people to walk between the Kipling Terminal and Dundas & Aukland?  One of the little details that were overlooked.  I guess I could wait until the subway shuts down tonight to see if the buses are detouring outbound through Six Points to see if that's the case.

How has the appetite for greater overnight service been on MiWay?  Would the next phase be increasing service to 7-days a week on the initial routes or add more routes to the "weeknight" schedule?  If the latter, there may be the case for the overnight routes differing from the daytime routes.  Take the 39 BRITANNIA for example, which would serve a lot of industries along Matheson.  Having it terminate at Renforth where the daytime route does makes little sense as it would only have the 7 AIRPORT to connect with.  Even the 332 EGLINTON WEST BLUE NIGHT route doesn't serve Renforth station and would require a bit of a hike to connect with the TTC.  Extending it to Kipling would make for more convenient connections.  At the west end, keeping it on Ninth Line will keep it out of residential areas overnight.  Now is it still the 39 or will it get a different designation?

The Derry, Dixie and Erin Mills corridors would also make likely candidates.  The 48 ERIN MILLS would require an extension southward to connect with Dundas.  How far south?  Sheridan Mall?  Clarkson GO?  With the 38 CREDITVIEW streamlined I could see it in a later round.  Whether it's the 38 or 38A depends on where the demand is.

[GTAmissions1]

1 hour ago, Gil said:

How has the appetite for greater overnight service been on MiWay?  Would the next phase be increasing service to 7-days a week on the initial routes or add more routes to the "weeknight" schedule?  If the latter, there may be the case for the overnight routes differing from the daytime routes.  Take the 39 BRITANNIA for example, which would serve a lot of industries along Matheson.  Having it terminate at Renforth where the daytime route does makes little sense as it would only have the 7 AIRPORT to connect with.  Even the 332 EGLINTON WEST BLUE NIGHT route doesn't serve Renforth station and would require a bit of a hike to connect with the TTC.  Extending it to Kipling would make for more convenient connections.  At the west end, keeping it on Ninth Line will keep it out of residential areas overnight.  Now is it still the 39 or will it get a different designation?

The Derry, Dixie and Erin Mills corridors would also make likely candidates.  The 48 ERIN MILLS would require an extension southward to connect with Dundas.  How far south?  Sheridan Mall?  Clarkson GO?  With the 38 CREDITVIEW streamlined I could see it in a later round.  Whether it's the 38 or 38A depends on where the demand is.

I find the 24 hour service on weekdays is more to bridge the gap since Route 1 and 3 previously until approximately 2:30 AM from Islington subway station to connect with the last subway departure. Starting back up at around 3 AM. Route 2/17 (Hurontario corridor) being the flagship route by usage has enough to subsidize the quieter hours. Hurontario has a frequency of every 20 minutes during the weekday early morning hours.

Route 7 Airport more to serve the airport for those arriving late due to a delayed connection or departure. 

Though I do agree they could extend early morning services to more routes along with operating around the clock 7 days a week pending budget availability. Especially the 1 Dundas has the final departure at 1:14 AM Monday morning (Sunday schedule) from Kipling and then start back up at 2:48 AM (weekday schedule). A gap of around 1.5 hours which would only require 3 departures to fill in that gap at half hour frequency.

Really depends on the trip generators or usage to subsidize the least used hours. 

[Gil]

On 1/12/2021 at 1:16 AM, GTAmissions1 said:

I find the 24 hour service on weekdays is more to bridge the gap since Route 1 and 3 previously until approximately 2:30 AM from Islington subway station to connect with the last subway departure. Starting back up at around 3 AM. Route 2/17 (Hurontario corridor) being the flagship route by usage has enough to subsidize the quieter hours. Hurontario has a frequency of every 20 minutes during the weekday early morning hours.

Route 7 Airport more to serve the airport for those arriving late due to a delayed connection or departure. 

Though I do agree they could extend early morning services to more routes along with operating around the clock 7 days a week pending budget availability. Especially the 1 Dundas has the final departure at 1:14 AM Monday morning (Sunday schedule) from Kipling and then start back up at 2:48 AM (weekday schedule). A gap of around 1.5 hours which would only require 3 departures to fill in that gap at half hour frequency.

Really depends on the trip generators or usage to subsidize the least used hours. 

I took a look at the 3 BLOOR service, at least on weeknights there's a 35-ish minute gap between the last bus of the day and the first one of the following day.  That pretty much makes it a 24 hour route if the headways are generally between 30 and 40 minutes overnight.  It does look like the drivers are stopping at the Aukland & Dundas Tim Hortons overnight (didn't realize they were open 24 hours at that location) since there isn't anything for them at Kipling.

The 1 DUNDAS does still does the detour loop through Six Points overnight as well when the subways aren't running, but there's no longer any notice given in the Service Updates section.  If it's not going to be permanent, perhaps a timed transfer with the 3 BLOOR for the last leg?  May be better than waiting for the layover on the 1 DUNDAS at Kipling.

As for my other suggestions, they run mostly through industrial areas in and around the airport which presumably would have more of a need for employee access as they would be running 24/7.  It would coincidentally also provide more of a network for access across Mississauga.  The Erin Mills corridor probably has a leg up on Winston Churchill by virtue of the hospital.  That would give you a north-south route along Erin Mills, Hurontario, Dixie and Airport.  East-west along Derry, Matheson/Britannia, Eglinton (East), Bloor unofficially and Dundas.  I'm not sure if there's a demand along Lakeshore other than for access to the other north-south routes.  It would look an awful lot like the TTC's early Blue Night service which roughly served every other arterial.

[MiExpress]

On 1/11/2021 at 10:58 PM, Gil said:

How has the appetite for greater overnight service been on MiWay?  Would the next phase be increasing service to 7-days a week on the initial routes or add more routes to the "weeknight" schedule?  If the latter, there may be the case for the overnight routes differing from the daytime routes.  Take the 39 BRITANNIA for example, which would serve a lot of industries along Matheson.  Having it terminate at Renforth where the daytime route does makes little sense as it would only have the 7 AIRPORT to connect with.  Even the 332 EGLINTON WEST BLUE NIGHT route doesn't serve Renforth station and would require a bit of a hike to connect with the TTC.  Extending it to Kipling would make for more convenient connections.  At the west end, keeping it on Ninth Line will keep it out of residential areas overnight.  Now is it still the 39 or will it get a different designation?

The Derry, Dixie and Erin Mills corridors would also make likely candidates.  The 48 ERIN MILLS would require an extension southward to connect with Dundas.  How far south?  Sheridan Mall?  Clarkson GO?  With the 38 CREDITVIEW streamlined I could see it in a later round.  Whether it's the 38 or 38A depends on where the demand is.

 

1 hour ago, Gil said:

I took a look at the 3 BLOOR service, at least on weeknights there's a 35-ish minute gap between the last bus of the day and the first one of the following day.  That pretty much makes it a 24 hour route if the headways are generally between 30 and 40 minutes overnight.  It does look like the drivers are stopping at the Aukland & Dundas Tim Hortons overnight (didn't realize they were open 24 hours at that location) since there isn't anything for them at Kipling.

The 1 DUNDAS does still does the detour loop through Six Points overnight as well when the subways aren't running, but there's no longer any notice given in the Service Updates section.  If it's not going to be permanent, perhaps a timed transfer with the 3 BLOOR for the last leg?  May be better than waiting for the layover on the 1 DUNDAS at Kipling.

As for my other suggestions, they run mostly through industrial areas in and around the airport which presumably would have more of a need for employee access as they would be running 24/7.  It would coincidentally also provide more of a network for access across Mississauga.  The Erin Mills corridor probably has a leg up on Winston Churchill by virtue of the hospital.  That would give you a north-south route along Erin Mills, Hurontario, Dixie and Airport.  East-west along Derry, Matheson/Britannia, Eglinton (East), Bloor unofficially and Dundas.  I'm not sure if there's a demand along Lakeshore other than for access to the other north-south routes.  It would look an awful lot like the TTC's early Blue Night service which roughly served every other arterial.

In my opinion the 48 Erin Mills is a terrible candidate for overnight service, it's a low ridership route and north of Eglinton the configuration of Erin Mills Parkway and the surrounding residential streets makes the 48 hard to access by foot. Most of the residential streets are a easier walk to Glen Erin, for this reason the 13 Glen Erin is probably a better choice for overnight service. The 13 would still provide service to all the major retail/employment areas as well as providing service along Southdown to Clarkson GO. 

Given the choice to expand overnight service, my choices would be the following:

• 5 Dixie - north/south link, connects to TTC service. Would likely have to be a modified routing skipping the Ogden portion
• 13 Glen Erin - provides a north/south link on the west end of the city, connects Clarkson GO, South Common, Erin Mills TC and Meadowvale Town Centre.
• 23 Lakeshore - serves Port Credit along with 3 GO Stations, connections to TTC service
• 26 Burnhamthorpe - east/west link, also serves City Centre area. To be perfectly honest, I would rather this route have overnight service than the 3 Bloor strictly speaking from a coverage standpoint.
• 35 Eglinton - provides another east/west link across the city north of the 403, would also serve CVH as suggested in your post. Perhaps a modified overnight routing to provide service on Matheson within the Airport Corporate Centre.
• 42 Derry - east/west link along the north end of the city connecting Malton and Meadowvale, serves large employment areas
• 61 Mavis - serves Heartland area as well as Sheridan College.

One of the challenges is the transitway. I struggle to justify overnight service along the transitway as it would be in close proximity to the 26 and 35, in addition to being isolated. However a combined (interlined) 107/110 service may be useful, and would better serve the employment areas in Malton, especially if the 7 Airport is still planned to be cut back to Renforth Station. If such a route ran then I don't think running the 26 Burnhamthorpe could be justified due to the close proximity of the routes.

Ultimately though, with the pandemic impacting ridership and revenue I think any expansion of night service is a non starter. Even before the pandemic the total ridership on the overnight 1, 2, 3, 7, 17 trips averaged around 275 daily riders combined. It's hard to justify expanding overnight service when the net cost will be far greater due to the lack of ridership.

That said, one way to expand overnight service without requiring additional resources would be to reduce service on the 2 and 17. Both routes currently use 3 buses each (6 total) at 17-20 minute frequency and generous layovers which is complete overkill given the ridership levels. Interlining them at the CCT would allow for 3 buses at 30 minute frequency, allowing 3 buses to be used for other overnight services. If I had to pick, it would be the 13 (2 buses at 45 minute service) and one of 23 or 61 (1 bus at 60 minute service)

[Gil]

1 hour ago, MiExpress said:

 

In my opinion the 48 Erin Mills is a terrible candidate for overnight service, it's a low ridership route and north of Eglinton the configuration of Erin Mills Parkway and the surrounding residential streets makes the 48 hard to access by foot. Most of the residential streets are a easier walk to Glen Erin, for this reason the 13 Glen Erin is probably a better choice for overnight service. The 13 would still provide service to all the major retail/employment areas as well as providing service along Southdown to Clarkson GO. 

Given the choice to expand overnight service, my choices would be the following:

• 5 Dixie - north/south link, connects to TTC service. Would likely have to be a modified routing skipping the Ogden portion
• 13 Glen Erin - provides a north/south link on the west end of the city, connects Clarkson GO, South Common, Erin Mills TC and Meadowvale Town Centre.
• 23 Lakeshore - serves Port Credit along with 3 GO Stations, connections to TTC service
• 26 Burnhamthorpe - east/west link, also serves City Centre area. To be perfectly honest, I would rather this route have overnight service than the 3 Bloor strictly speaking from a coverage standpoint.
• 35 Eglinton - provides another east/west link across the city north of the 403, would also serve CVH as suggested in your post. Perhaps a modified overnight routing to provide service on Matheson within the Airport Corporate Centre.
• 42 Derry - east/west link along the north end of the city connecting Malton and Meadowvale, serves large employment areas
• 61 Mavis - serves Heartland area as well as Sheridan College.

One of the challenges is the transitway. I struggle to justify overnight service along the transitway as it would be in close proximity to the 26 and 35, in addition to being isolated. However a combined (interlined) 107/110 service may be useful, and would better serve the employment areas in Malton, especially if the 7 Airport is still planned to be cut back to Renforth Station. If such a route ran then I don't think running the 26 Burnhamthorpe could be justified due to the close proximity of the routes.

Ultimately though, with the pandemic impacting ridership and revenue I think any expansion of night service is a non starter. Even before the pandemic the total ridership on the overnight 1, 2, 3, 7, 17 trips averaged around 275 daily riders combined. It's hard to justify expanding overnight service when the net cost will be far greater due to the lack of ridership.

That said, one way to expand overnight service without requiring additional resources would be to reduce service on the 2 and 17. Both routes currently use 3 buses each (6 total) at 17-20 minute frequency and generous layovers which is complete overkill given the ridership levels. Interlining them at the CCT would allow for 3 buses at 30 minute frequency, allowing 3 buses to be used for other overnight services. If I had to pick, it would be the 13 (2 buses at 45 minute service) and one of 23 or 61 (1 bus at 60 minute service)

I don't have any hard stats to back me up, but anecdotally Glen Erin (say between Eglinton and Britannia) doesn't strike me as an area in need of overnight service if it's provided elsewhere where it is possibly needed (around Meadowvale TC and possibly at Britannia) where incomes are lower and there's a chance people may need access to the warehouse or industrial jobs around the airport.  You'd probably get some pushback from the same residents about overnight traffic.  An overnight route along Erin Mills would probably be different, say running down Millcreek to Erin Mills and then south.  The Amazon Fulfillment Centre at Millcreek & Erin Mills would be a potential trip generator, as would Credit Valley.  There's also the EMS centre at Thomas.  The Erin Mills Transitway station with the 24-hour GO 40 RICHMOND HILL CENTRE/HAMILTON route with an 80-cent co-fare would be another.  Run it down to Clarkson GO if you're adding the 23 LAKESHORE for some connectivity.  The whole 13/48 split at South Common means travelling the entire corridor requires a transfer or two if you're coming from the extreme south end of Southdown.  The faster travel time along Erin Mills overnight might be able to stretch the route further with the same resources during the day.

The 35 EGLINTON makes sense in conjunction with an eventual truncation of the 7 AIRPORT.  Between Dixie and Hurontario though it makes it hard not to include the 39 BRITANNIA.  Timed transfers at Renforth station should allow for easy connections to the TTC.

The 3 BLOOR is an overnight route in reality, just not in name given its operating hours.  Coverage-wise, a route would be needed to connect City Cente to points west.  I wonder if MiWay could do what DRT did at least for overnight service in treating GO as a MiWay route within Mississauga allowing for free transfers along the Transitway.

As for the 61 MAVIS, Sheridan College (both campuses) and Heartland are hardly enough of a trip generator overnight unless we are counting transfers from other routes.

The 2 and 17 are supposedly interlined (at least that was the intention when they were split) between 10PM and 4AM.  As for scheduling and run times, I've heard from drivers who complain MiWay's Planning uses Google's drive time estimations in calculating how long it will take to complete a route rather than actually time it with actual runs.  The result is the bizarre padding of schedules.

The overnight services will obviously take some time to grow and develop, I was just curious as to what the City's next steps would be in a post-pandemic world.  I know Drum118's been calling for overnight service since the 90's, but Mississauga wasn't at the point back then to be able to support it.  A few tentative steps now when it can now support a skeletal network such as it is, is a positive start.  Overnight employers will have to start participating to get the service where it's needed.  It's a fine line between network connectivity and providing service where it's needed at both ends of the trip.

[wowzhao]

7 hours ago, Gil said:

The 3 BLOOR is an overnight route in reality, just not in name given its operating hours. 

I'm just being nitpicky here but is the 3 not an official 24-hour route? I seem to recall it being listed as part of all the announcements when they first launched the overnight network.

[GTAmissions1]

3 hours ago, wowzhao said:

I'm just being nitpicky here but is the 3 not an official 24-hour route? I seem to recall it being listed as part of all the announcements when they first launched the overnight network.

It is an official 24 hour route. The frequency is roughly 40 minutes during the early morning hours for Route 3 and 7.

The original four routes is 1 Dundas, 3 Bloor, 7 Airport and 19 Hurontario (renamed 2/17 Hurontario interlining at City Centre between 10 PM until 4 AM or last trip on weekends/holidays). Introduced April 29, 2019. 

[newflyerinvero]

On a related topic, is it more feasible for the 48 to operate the full length of Erin Mills (except its northern routing towards Meadowvale TC) to Clarkson GO and leave the 13 to operate between South Common and Meadowvale, with the 29 operating in the area that the 13 currently does towards South Common?

[drum118]

Try walking from Dundas for route 3 to TTC and it a lot faster than going to the Hub and then TTC. As I near the entrance to TTC, saw my bus turning at the east end to get to the bus bay, This will be good for good days, but a lot of riders will still do it regardless of the weather. That a saving of about 7 minutes of current travel time and faster when 3 went to Islington.

Was in the 3rd car from the west end of Kipling with grocery and it took me 10 minutes to get to the bus bay. When I got to the bus bay, my bus was there, but schedule to depart in 10 minutes. We had an wait up to 3 minute trying to get into Kipling after leaving Islington. Is could mean you may or may not miss your bus and add more travel time.

Had a look at the tunnel and no changes to it from what I saw it the last time on opening day. Heard some jackhammering, but wasn't in the tunnel.

 

[drum118]

Mississauga Receives Transit Infrastructure Funding Through the Investing in Canada Infrastructure Program

 

[GTAmissions1]

1 hour ago, drum118 said:

Mississauga Receives Transit Infrastructure Funding Through the Investing in Canada Infrastructure Program

Reading the article you linked, nice to see they are looking into bus rapid transit along Lakeshore. I remember the days when I used to take it from Clarkson GO Station to Long Branch connecting to 501 Queen. 

This is along with some of the infrastructure improvements for the network such as upgraded amenities and technological upgrades.