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A message for all participants of this discussion board, but particularly this thread as the admin team seems to constantly receive reports from here: Please keep your conversations civil. There is

Precisely.     I know I'm not around here as much as I used to be but this thread is out of control. Can no one relax? How about thanking those who post info and photos instead of immediately ju

Good sir, I'm finding that you're posting a lot of useless inane drivel in this thread. I assume that given that you are (pretending?) to be a MiWay operator that you have a degree of maturity ab

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11 minutes ago, ONQCBusFan said:

So the novas might begin revenue service next week?

Just training?

 

18 hours ago, drum118 said:

NOVA driver orientation starts next week with 1730 the only bus on site

The Joint Health and Safety Committee has just completed the due diligence around bringing a new type of bus into service.  Serial deliveries start this week.  First artic expected in December.  Do not expect revenue service much before the end of the year.

MT has joined the CUTRIC program which will give them access to the electric bus trials.  They do not plan to copy any of this work.  Our Hybrid’s are at half-life and MT are looking at battery replacement,  electric motor bearings and engine work. The life cycle cost of ownership has not been favourable which is why they have not added to this small fleet. Very surprised when they bought them considering all the problem with the first batch off the line in 2000's.

No and yes. 

 

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19 hours ago, drum118 said:

What a show.

NOVA driver orientation starts next week with 1730 the only bus on site. 2kvQbETIEBMSo1ZBWWAAF3MdH5AAAAARIAEADG8H

The Joint Health and Safety Committee has just completed the due diligence around bringing a new type of bus into service.  Serial deliveries start this week.  First artic expected in December.  Do not expect revenue service much before the end of the year.

MT has joined the CUTRIC program which will give them access to the electric bus trials.  They do not plan to copy any of this work.  Our Hybrid’s are at half-life and MT are looking at battery replacement,  electric motor bearings and engine work. The life cycle cost of ownership has not been favourable which is why they have not added to this small fleet. Very surprised when they bought them considering all the problem with the first batch off the line in 2000's.

Yeah, I guess because Novas are new to Mississauga and they will take time to get used to drivers. especially the one piece windshield (MiWay has never had a bus like that before).

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23 minutes ago, lip said:

If drivers thought the hated the Xcelsiors, just wait until they try out the Novas. The experience wont be pleasant at all.

The big, single pane windshield is a plus that many drivers are looking forward to. Also, the wider entry is another plus. People with presto or passes won't have to wait for cash passengers to enter their $3.50 one nickel at a time. However, I think the lower driving position will take some getting used to. Why will it not be pleasant at all?

The Xcelsiors have improved since 2011 for sure, considering they've had 7 years to do just that.  The main thing drivers hated about the Xcelsiors was that they were so low and top heavy. 

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8 hours ago, ONQCBusFan said:

So the new Novas might begin revenue service next week?

Do you know how to Read??

If there is only one bus on site, how do you expect it be in service when drivers have to be train on it first???

What does this say??

Do not expect revenue service much before the end of the year.

 

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On 10/25/2017 at 7:27 PM, drum118 said:

Do you know how to Read??

If there is only one bus on site, how do you expect it be in service when drivers have to be train on it first???

What does this say??

Do not expect revenue service much before the end of the year.

 

Yes I can read I'm not stupid! I just didn't see that part until it was in larger print. I was already quoted on that already. 

Now, Please stop bothering me!

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6 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

The big, single pane windshield is a plus that many drivers are looking forward to. Also, the wider entry is another plus. People with presto or passes won't have to wait for cash passengers to enter their $3.50 one nickel at a time. However, I think the lower driving position will take some getting used to. Why will it not be pleasant at all?

The Xcelsiors have improved since 2011 for sure, considering they've had 7 years to do just that.  The main thing drivers hated about the Xcelsiors was that they were so low and top heavy. 

From what i've experienced from being seated in the compartment, and from what i've heard from many others here are just a few issues:

-The mirror placement is horrendous.  It is very difficult to see passengers inside the bus, let alone if they are exiting via the rear doors

-There is a real lack of leg room for tall drivers in the drivers compartment as the panel is too low

-The dashboard makes it seem as though one is reading the hieroglyphics with all the symbols and as a result, drivers are essentially forced to look at a chart to see what the problem is with a bus

-The suspension makes for a really rough ride. Multiply whatever bumps you felt on the D40LFR and XD40 by 2

-The front door and operator seat is misaligned. While that's good for passengers, operators will have neck issues since it is difficult so make direct eye contact with a passenger

 

And I havent even got to what it's like from a passenger perspective. As i've said quite a number of times elsewhere, the bus is just awkwardly designed from head to toe.

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31 minutes ago, lip said:

From what i've experienced from being seated in the compartment, and from what i've heard from many others here are just a few issues:

-The mirror placement is horrendous.  It is very difficult to see passengers inside the bus, let alone if they are exiting via the rear doors

-There is a real lack of leg room for tall drivers in the drivers compartment as the panel is too low

-The dashboard makes it seem as though one is reading the hieroglyphics with all the symbols and as a result, drivers are essentially forced to look at a chart to see what the problem is with a bus

-The suspension makes for a really rough ride. Multiply whatever bumps you felt on the D40LFR and XD40 by 2

-The front door and operator seat is misaligned. While that's good for passengers, operators will have neck issues since it is difficult so make direct eye contact with a passenger

 

And I havent even got to what it's like from a passenger perspective. As i've said quite a number of times elsewhere, the bus is just awkwardly designed from head to toe.

Interesting...I knew that there were some niggles, but I didn't know it was this bad. 

The one thing I hate about our Voith-equipped XD40s (this is more of a tranny thing) is that horrible grinding sound they make after each gear change. I've never noticed it on 11s but 13, 14 and even some 17s I've noticed have it. 

And then also what I mentioned earlier about top heaviness and how low the bus is. I've seen a couple times where the ramp is lower than the curb and the driver has had to move up for it. Also the massive AC unit on the roof makes turns...interesting so to speak. 

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35 minutes ago, lip said:

From what i've experienced from being seated in the compartment, and from what i've heard from many others here are just a few issues:

-The mirror placement is horrendous.  It is very difficult to see passengers inside the bus, let alone if they are exiting via the rear doors

-There is a real lack of leg room for tall drivers in the drivers compartment as the panel is too low

-The dashboard makes it seem as though one is reading the hieroglyphics with all the symbols and as a result, drivers are essentially forced to look at a chart to see what the problem is with a bus

-The suspension makes for a really rough ride. Multiply whatever bumps you felt on the D40LFR and XD40 by 2

-The front door and operator seat is misaligned. While that's good for passengers, operators will have neck issues since it is difficult so make direct eye contact with a passenger

 

And I havent even got to what it's like from a passenger perspective. As i've said quite a number of times elsewhere, the bus is just awkwardly designed from head to toe.

Since this only the pilot bus, does this mean that the other LFS/LFS artics will not have this issue?

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10 hours ago, eclair14 said:

Pics of 1741 at the Paint Shop (and don't ask for more ... it's the only one i have)

 

MiWay 1741 - Novabus LFS

 

Let the foaming begin? Nice pic, thank you for posting it.

10 hours ago, FlyerLFR said:

Since this only the pilot bus, does this mean that the other LFS/LFS artics will not have this issue?

Edit: Got tangled up with other posts, apologies...

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1 hour ago, FlyerLFR said:

Since this only the pilot bus, does this mean that the other LFS/LFS artics will not have this issue?

The issues that I listed are a NovaBus LFS wide issue, it isnt limited to any municipality or specific type of NovaBus.

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31 minutes ago, lip said:

The issues that I listed are a NovaBus LFS wide issue, it isnt limited to any municipality or specific type of NovaBus.

You talk to the various drivers as well management of various systems, you get both pro and con for the LFS with con having a higher rating that has a long list.

There are a lot of drivers who refused to drive the LFS if they is another manufacture bus in the fleet to the point they will only sign up for non LFS routes or hope not getting stuck with one.

Can't remember the first system I rode an LFS, but like the rear window and duel seat. I haven't found much different how they ride, but need to check that out. The one thing I like is the front entrance as its wider than other buses, but they comply to the new ADA requirement for wider wheelchairs and scooter in the US..

All buses have their pro and cons as well drivers liking X bus over Y bus.

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52 minutes ago, drum118 said:

You talk to the various drivers as well management of various systems, you get both pro and con for the LFS with con having a higher rating that has a long list.

There are a lot of drivers who refused to drive the LFS if they is another manufacture bus in the fleet to the point they will only sign up for non LFS routes or hope not getting stuck with one.

Can't remember the first system I rode an LFS, but like the rear window and duel seat. I haven't found much different how they ride, but need to check that out. The one thing I like is the front entrance as its wider than other buses, but they comply to the new ADA requirement for wider wheelchairs and scooter in the US..

All buses have their pro and cons as well drivers liking X bus over Y bus.

The wide entrance is a big pro. It’ll be the first time we’ve had a low floor bus with a wide entrance.

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11 hours ago, lip said:

-The front door and operator seat is misaligned. While that's good for passengers, operators will have neck issues since it is difficult so make direct eye contact with a passenger

I spoke with a Mississauga Transit driver this summer after he asked why I was taking pictures.  We got chatting about different bus types and he mentioned that he was concerned about the new LFS's after hearing about neck issues from TTC drivers due to the operator's seat placement.  

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18 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

The wide entrance is a big pro. It’ll be the first time we’ve had a low floor bus with a wide entrance.

Not to the drivers, it's not. There have been tons of reports of "Nova Neck" at other properties that have had them for years.

 

Dan

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1 hour ago, smallspy said:

Not to the drivers, it's not. There have been tons of reports of "Nova Neck" at other properties that have had them for years.

 

Dan

You would have thought that people with presto/passes would just pass by those entering their fare with change, no? What's "Nova Neck" (shall I assume a bottleneck at the doors)?

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21 minutes ago, MiWay0310 said:

You would have thought that people with presto/passes would just pass by those entering their fare with change, no? What's "Nova Neck" (shall I assume a bottleneck at the doors)?

Probably the drivers of LFSes need to turn their head more than 90 degrees to see the passengers putting in fares leading to long term neck problems.

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52 minutes ago, Orion V said:

Probably the drivers of LFSes need to turn their head more than 90 degrees to see the passengers putting in fares leading to long term neck problems.

Clearly that part of the bus hasn't been designed well...

I can tell just by exterior pictures that the mirror placement is horrible, as @lip said. The driver mirror is between that mini window by the A pillar and the main driver window. Same for the curbside mirror...seems where they made up in front visibility, they lacked in mirror placement. 

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On 2017-10-25 at 8:59 PM, lip said:

From what i've experienced from being seated in the compartment, and from what i've heard from many others here are just a few issues:

-The mirror placement is horrendous.  It is very difficult to see passengers inside the bus, let alone if they are exiting via the rear doors

-There is a real lack of leg room for tall drivers in the drivers compartment as the panel is too low

-The dashboard makes it seem as though one is reading the hieroglyphics with all the symbols and as a result, drivers are essentially forced to look at a chart to see what the problem is with a bus

-The suspension makes for a really rough ride. Multiply whatever bumps you felt on the D40LFR and XD40 by 2

-The front door and operator seat is misaligned. While that's good for passengers, operators will have neck issues since it is difficult so make direct eye contact with a passenger

 

And I havent even got to what it's like from a passenger perspective. As i've said quite a number of times elsewhere, the bus is just awkwardly designed from head to toe.

 

It's become so rare that I post on the CPTDB but I read this and just have to applaud the post, I agree with everything on the list especially the lack of leg room and neck issues. I can't believe it's 2017 and Nova STILL hasn't fixed those two issues. It's as if they've decided to negligently ignore the feedback from thousands of transit operators across the continent for the past two decades. A class action lawsuit might scare them into finally doing something about it (even if the lawsuit goes nowhere), but I seriously doubt that will ever happen. 

 

The dashboard I'll admit doesn't bother me, although I much prefer the New Flyer Xcelsior one, mirrors don't bother me but I'm also tall enough (6'5") that I never have blind spots (although looking left on the Nova and seeing the panel is irritating). The passenger view mirrors that were originally delivered with our (Brampton) 2014-17 Novas were insanely small and operators complained enough that they've been exchanged for ones very similar to those on the Xcelsiors.

 

Suspension is very bad as well but I've noticed an improvement in the 16s and 17s BUT that also could be just because they're newer so time will tell.

 

Everybody's entitled to their own opinion, and I totally respect that, but IMO other than the wider turning radius, there is NOTHING a Nova LFS bus has that is better than an New Flyer Xcelsior, NOTHING!!!

 

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1 hour ago, 502 Downtowner said:

 

It's become so rare that I post on the CPTDB but I read this and just have to applaud the post, I agree with everything on the list especially the lack of leg room and neck issues. I can't believe it's 2017 and Nova STILL hasn't fixed those two issues. It's as if they've decided to negligently ignore the feedback from thousands of transit operators across the continent for the past two decades. A class action lawsuit might scare them into finally doing something about it (even if the lawsuit goes nowhere), but I seriously doubt that will ever happen. 

 

The dashboard I'll admit doesn't bother me, although I much prefer the New Flyer Xcelsior one, mirrors don't bother me but I'm also tall enough (6'5") that I never have blind spots (although looking left on the Nova and seeing the panel is irritating). The passenger view mirrors that were originally delivered with our (Brampton) 2014-17 Novas were insanely small and operators complained enough that they've been exchanged for ones very similar to those on the Xcelsiors.

 

Suspension is very bad as well but I've noticed an improvement in the 16s and 17s BUT that also could be just because they're newer so time will tell.

 

Everybody's entitled to their own opinion, and I totally respect that, but IMO other than the wider turning radius, there is NOTHING a Nova LFS bus has that is better than an New Flyer Xcelsior, NOTHING!!!

 

One of my friends who was doing a 30 footer route for a few weeks actually had to switch buses because the seating position in the EZs was so bad. He started having knee pains and the doctor said it was due to his seating position. So to avoid any legal issues he had to get 40 footers on a 30 footer route which I guess the dispatcher wasn’t too happy about.

I had an irritating experience with MiWay today. I was studying late at UTM, planning on catching the 1C WB at 1156, which happens to be the last WB trip of the night, and the last bus that serves UTM. I left ahead of time and was near the stop at 1153 (I've syncd my phone's time with MiWay's), and right then I saw 0546 (the 05 with the faux wood wrap) leaving the stop. I get there and sure enough, it was the 1156 leaving 2 minutes early, verified by Transsee which said 0546 was 2:27 minutes ahead of schedule. 

Now I know the majority of you will all want to rip me to bits over this but I'm sorry, this is ridiculous. I can understand and let this sort of thing go during the day, and even in the evening. But if you're the last bus of the night, there is absolutely no reason you should be leaving early. I know you'll all want to say "oh well any bus within 10 minutes of the scheduled time is considered on-time", but I've already stated my opinion on that in past posts. I can understand leaving early (within reasonable bounds) where you know your schedule might take a hit due to pickups from stops ahead. That's fine during the day and evening when the frequency decent. Leaving late as the last trip of the night is just stupid. There were a couple people at the stop expecting the 1156 to come, but of course, it had already left. What compels a driver to inconvenience people like that? Makes no sense to me. I cannot think of a reason why you would have to leave early as the last trip of the night. 

Let the micro-analyzation begin!!!

 

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