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Got a few questions and comments for you @Silly Tilley:

1. Are you here to defend the existing system or actually propose new ways to improve it/read and acknowledge some of the concerns and complains other members have?

2. I don't need to be a "transit operator or someone with experience driving a transit bus" in order to assess the driving skills of a bus driver. I can read posted speed limits and I can look at the speedometer. If they don't match, there is a problem - especially if they're late. Furthermore, I've been driven countlessly by a very great number of different drivers, and once again I don't need to be a trained operator to appreciate it when a driver is smooth on the road or complain when he/she slams the brakes for nothing or is jerky with the accelerator. (There was a guy, often on the afternoon shift on 110, later on 44, who just could not press the accelerator like a normal person would. Instead of steadily pressing on it, he'd press down and release every 2 seconds and our heads would all go forward and backward, forward and backward for the whole duration of the trip!) 

3. We're not all experts on transit, but what we do know is that we're paying customers (most of us) and don't need to hear excuses/reasons for why this and that is not working/not being done, especially when that's basically what the bus drivers are giving us (and that is very frustrating). As a customer, I don't need nor want to know why the bus is dirty, I want it clean, that's all. Same for new livery. Customers don't need to know there's no money, buses can't be taken out etc. Other cities are doing it, we should be doing it too. (Not that many riders really care about paint, but I'm sure I'd hear less comments about Miway being ghetto if some of those 03s and 05s especially had gotten the new livery.

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44 minutes ago, Nicomadrid said:

@Silly Tilley

1. Are you here to defend the existing system or actually propose new ways to improve it/read and acknowledge some of the concerns and complains other members have?

Given that Tilley came in to a very negative string of posts and had the balls to provide counterpoints to everyone, I don't see how the onus should be on him to propose new ways to improve these concerns and complaints. 

I think this is a fair question for anyone, especially those with the complaints....

What would you do to fix your complains?

Related to that, how much would it cost? Where would the money come from? 

Repainting a bus is fine and dandy, but there's a cost to that. Same with wrapping a bus. 

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5 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

Alot of you know that the 2013+ Xcelsiors have that "brake-hold" function.

So do Durham Region Transit's 2015+ LFS units, and drivers there have been having a hard time releasing the brakes too - pushing the pedal down to the floor as if it was a giant push button switch that wouldn't budge. Not sure if other GTA transit agencies have that on their LFSes, but I wouldn't be surprised if MiWay configured its upcoming LFSes with such.

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1 hour ago, M. Parsons said:

Given that Tilley came in to a very negative string of posts and had the balls to provide counterpoints to everyone, I don't see how the onus should be on him to propose new ways to improve these concerns and complaints. 

I think this is a fair question for anyone, especially those with the complaints....

What would you do to fix your complains?

Related to that, how much would it cost? Where would the money come from? 

Repainting a bus is fine and dandy, but there's a cost to that. Same with wrapping a bus. 

I think that's a fair question if he has the balls to go around calling people selfish, arrogant and angry, since he clearly knows way more than us. 

As for your question, I'd definitely start off with fixing the 101e routing out of south common mall. It's an easy fix and the only costs related would be the introduction of a new stop sign and/or shelter on Erin mills and south Millway. Other costs might include the advertisement of the actual change. 

Repainting is something that doesn't need to be done immediately, should be done within the near future. Wraps are pointless because they can suffer from tears, peeling etc. 

3 hours ago, ngdvd said:

In 20 years using Mississauga Transit, I never seen buses turned around and trips cancelled.

Do realize how much your claims contradict each other? 4 buses bunched together? How is that possible if trips are routinely canceled?

And you claimed MiWay has poor frequencies. How can they buses bunch together if the frequency is so poor? For a route 60 minute long operating at 30 minute frequency, there are only four buses on the route to begin with. The frontmost bus would have to be 90 minutes late to bunch with very last bus, assuming the very last bus is not late either. How can buses routinely be 90 minutes late?

Basically what you describe is impossible for a typical MiWay route. Maybe it can happen on 19 Hurontario which has 4-5 minute frequency, so if a bus falls 12-15 minutes behind, and the fourth bus is on time. But again, that would contradict your earlier claim of MiWay's poor frequencies.

Many routes have extra trips for the high school students in addition to regular trips, I think maybe you are confusing that with bunching.

In fact, the problem with MiWay is they are so paranoid about buses being late and bunching together that they pad the schedules to a ridiculous extent. As a result, the buses often have to layover in the middle of service and inconvenience riders because they are ahead of schedule.

In terms of reliability of service, I know of nothing that would make the situation in Mississauga any different than York Region. Both systems largely operate in mixed traffic instead of separate ROWs, and both Mississauga and York Region have similar amount of road traffic and congestion, that is the main factor affecting reliability. The only major difference affecting speed/reliability is possibly ridership. Buses in Mississauga are full, and so constantly have to stop let people on/off. Buses in York Region are empty in comparison, and so they don't have to stop as often, and perhaps for that reason it is easier for them stay on schedule.

Amount of service = quality of service. More service means higher frequencies, less crowded buses, more reliable, and so on.

It literally happened yesterday. 103 was half an hour late and it got worse so she was turned around. You're not understanding what I'm saying. Increasing frequency is all fine and well, but what happens when they get bunched up in traffic? I don't know where you're pulling that cancelling statement out from because I never mentioned cancelled trips.  When I say turned around I don't mean cancelled. I mean turned around in the opposite direction so they can cheat the schedule. 

I've never mentioned "poor miway frequencies". I've only talked about how increased frequency makes no difference if you have drivers who are too relaxed or traffic/accident etc causing a backlog so that at a certain stop, you will see more than one of the same bus. 

Yes I know they have extra school trips. They'd be idiots not to have them. That's only common sense. 

Thats exactly what I mean. They should account for traffic-prone areas and schedule accordingly. In areas where traffic is less likely, tighten it up a bit. 

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@MiWay0310 I don't think how Tilley responded to you was belittling or disrespectful one bit. In fact I would suggest you take a look at the nature of the posts and claims you have been making. It seems to me that Tilley was not here to defend MiWay with every tooth and nail he has, but rather to defend those you have defamed.  In your words, you have said that the majority of MiWay operators have shit driving skills and that 90% of operators show no urgency. With 1000 operators do you understand what you are implying or even the nature of it? I don't think you do, but I'm not going to tell you that you should be banished for it. 

I once had similar feelings as you have displayed, but they were just feelings that weren't exactly grounded in sound evidence or statiscal sampling. There's a lot more out there than you may realize and it is far too easy to take a string of negative events and forget about the good ones. 

I'm glad you want to talk about MiWay and what needs to be done to improve it, but first let us let the dust settle. No one here is saying there is nothing wrong with MiWay, but saying everything is wrong with MiWay is factually untrue and degrades those who go into work everyday and do their very best to deliver quality service against all that the public has to throw at them. 

We would all much prefer to talk, teach, learn and understand how and why MiWay operates the way it does and what can be done to improve things, but we need a rational environment to do that in and right now we don't have one. 

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14 hours ago, Nicomadrid said:

2. I don't need to be a "transit operator or someone with experience driving a transit bus" in order to assess the driving skills of a bus driver.

 

Um, yes, you should have experience driving a bus if you are going to make sweeping judgments about the driving skills of bus operators.  The skills needed to operate a heavy-duty North American transit bus are very, very different than those required to operate an automobile.  The slower acceleration alone is a major factor as it opens up the endless potential for other drivers to cut you off because of the large amount of space that opens up between the vehicle in front of you and your bus.  Add to this the need to interact with customers, provide them with a safe and comfortable ride, monitor the interior of the bus for any criminal or inappropriate behavior and the expectation of enforcing the policies of your employer and you get one of the most stressful driving jobs on the continent.  Watching the speedometer and feeling jerky starts and stops is not sufficient information to judge a bus operator's skills.  

I don't live in the GTA and I rarely ride MiWay so I'm not in a position to judge the agency, its service or its employees, but I do feel compelled to respond when people with zero experience in the transit industry take gratuitous shots at those who do provide the service.  There are some bad employees in any organization but I do believe that the majority of operators are conscientious and try to do a good job.  

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2 hours ago, MT0603 said:

@MiWay0310 I don't think how Tilley responded to you was belittling or disrespectful one bit. In fact I would suggest you take a look at the nature of the posts and claims you have been making. It seems to me that Tilley was not here to defend MiWay with every tooth and nail he has, but rather to defend those you have defamed.  In your words, you have said that the majority of MiWay operators have shit driving skills and that 90% of operators show no urgency. With 1000 operators do you understand what you are implying or even the nature of it? I don't think you do, but I'm not going to tell you that you should be banished for it. 

I once had similar feelings as you have displayed, but they were just feelings that weren't exactly grounded in sound evidence or statiscal sampling. There's a lot more out there than you may realize and it is far too easy to take a string of negative events and forget about the good ones. 

I'm glad you want to talk about MiWay and what needs to be done to improve it, but first let us let the dust settle. No one here is saying there is nothing wrong with MiWay, but saying everything is wrong with MiWay is factually untrue and degrades those who go into work everyday and do their very best to deliver quality service against all that the public has to throw at them. 

We would all much prefer to talk, teach, learn and understand how and why MiWay operates the way it does and what can be done to improve things, but we need a rational environment to do that in and right now we don't have one. 

First off i'd like to thank you for taking a much more professional approach than Tilley. I understand I may have come off looking aggressive through my comments, but I disagree on your opinion of his comments. I don't see him calling anyone else selfish or arrogant even though they are also stating their opinions about MiWay. The way he responded to me, I find, was arrogant. In the 8 years that I've been taking the bus, I consistently notice what I wrote about in my comments. These weren't one time things. Now I understand your point when you say there is no factual basis for my statements. My statements may be slightly exaggerated. My only complaint about the large part of MiWay's operators is their driving. The fact of the matter is, if you pay attention, a lot of drivers fail to keep up with the speed limit. Now I can understand on local routes there are stops every few hundred meters, so there may not be consistent progress, but on express routes, there are large gaps between stops. And ignore traffic for these sorts of situations. Why is it that those drivers can't adhere to the speed limit? That posting is there for a reason right? And since some of you talk about "safe operation of a bus", going below the speed limit is not good for traffic, nor safety.

In fact, since many of you are complaining about how I have no factual basis of this, I'm even willing to create a week's study into what I'm talking about. This can result in two things: a) the driver is driving slow to adhere to a schedule. If this is the case, should he really be driving slow on, in the case of express routes, major streets? What are the consequences of this traffic and safety wise? Shouldn't the schedules account for traffic-prone and non-traffic prone areas? b ) He is driving slow just for the sake of it. If this is the case, we can see that there is something wrong with the training of the operator, because surely they were not taught to drive slow on major streets. 

It seems to me that a lot of the people on this forum, especially the Wiki Editors, seem to be reluctant to criticize the system, which is far from perfect. Is there a reason for that? Look, as you said, we all need a rational environment to discuss these sorts of issues, and I completely agree, but is that what is actually happening when there is no constructive criticism? If all we talk about is how ridership is increasing and how we're getting more buses and more routes are being introduced (that's all fine and well), but it paints the picture that the system is perfect, when it indeed isn't. How about the comfort, the actual environment people travel in? That is not always perfect right? Do you think people are impressed when they see that part of the rear door structure on their bus is held with duct tape, or that some of the fleet numbers on their buses are written in with white out? Or that part of the bulkhead in the trailer part of their bus is not secure and is hanging over their heads? Now these are small things, but I just want to give you all an idea of what I mean. 

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I saw 2 300's at CCTT today with fresh orange paint strip with new logo on them and look like 323 has been repainted. Odd they were done considering they will be gone in 6 months, yet newer buses have the old logo. No idea if they had problems and it require them to be painted.

26 had a bad Friday to the point never saw an eastbound bus in the 30 minute I waited at Wolfdale while watching 3 go west. I ended up walking to Confederation and no bus pass me to the point I had to change my travel plan at this point since I was 45 minutes behind schedule. No idea what happen around South Common Mall area for the delay. All stops had riders waiting for the 26 with a few doing the walk also.

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19 hours ago, Transit geek said:

So do Durham Region Transit's 2015+ LFS units, and drivers there have been having a hard time releasing the brakes too - pushing the pedal down to the floor as if it was a giant push button switch that wouldn't budge. Not sure if other GTA transit agencies have that on their LFSes, but I wouldn't be surprised if MiWay configured its upcoming LFSes with such.

Wouldn't know. Are you referring to that jerk or jolt just after the doors are closed as the operator tries to get the bus back into drive? 

I think many agencies have this issue with their Novas. I can't assume MiWays' would be any different.

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17 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

It literally happened yesterday. 103 was half an hour late and it got worse so she was turned around. You're not understanding what I'm saying. Increasing frequency is all fine and well, but what happens when they get bunched up in traffic? I don't know where you're pulling that cancelling statement out from because I never mentioned cancelled trips.  When I say turned around I don't mean cancelled. I mean turned around in the opposite direction so they can cheat the schedule. 

I've never mentioned "poor miway frequencies". I've only talked about how increased frequency makes no difference if you have drivers who are too relaxed or traffic/accident etc causing a backlog so that at a certain stop, you will see more than one of the same bus. 

Yes I know they have extra school trips. They'd be idiots not to have them. That's only common sense. 

Thats exactly what I mean. They should account for traffic-prone areas and schedule accordingly. In areas where traffic is less likely, tighten it up a bit. 

If the bus the gets turned around, the trip is cancelled. It is doing a new trip before finishing its current, scheduled trip.

Despite being a limited stop/express route, the 103 has a scheduled run time of over an hour (!) in each direction. Do you seriously think the route should rescheduled for 90+ minute run time? You are a making too big a deal about an exceptional event. There was probably a car accident or something.

FlyerLFR said MiWay has crap service frequency and then you quoted him and said you "completely agree" with him. Are you saying you don't "completely agree"?

Regardless, you are making broad generalizations about the character and competence of over 900 MiWay bus drivers.

Your attacks on MiWay drivers are based entirely on anecdotal evidence. I think the ridership, mode share, and revenue service hours stats I posted on this page and the previous page say a lot more about the knowledge and competence of MiWay and their employees in terms of providing transit service. Mississauga isn't a small place where transit is a foreign concept. Having to serve a sprawling suburb without integration with TTC, MiWay has an uphill battle and more than any other agency it does not have room for error. If all of the drivers were really so lazy and incompetent, it would be reflected in the numbers.

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I think i've mentioned that there is no factual basis for my arguments, it is just an experience over the course of many years. Okay, if you're so eager to post stats and facts, why don't you go and find some schedule adherence facts? What percentage of their buses actually arrive on time? But then again, MiWay's considers a bus to be on time if it is within 5-10 minutes of the scheduled time, so that defeats the purpose (I know that fact was written somewhere, can't find it). 

 

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1 hour ago, ngdvd said:

If the bus the gets turned around, the trip is cancelled. It is doing a new trip before finishing its current, scheduled trip.

Despite being a limited stop/express route, the 103 has a scheduled run time of over an hour (!) in each direction. Do you seriously think the route should rescheduled for 90+ minute run time? You are a making too big a deal about an exceptional event. There was probably a car accident or something.

FlyerLFR said MiWay has crap service frequency and then you quoted him and said you "completely agree" with him. Are you saying you don't "completely agree"?

Regardless, you are making broad generalizations about the character and competence of over 900 MiWay bus drivers.

Your attacks on MiWay drivers are based entirely on anecdotal evidence. I think the ridership, mode share, and revenue service hours stats I posted on this page and the previous page say a lot more about the knowledge and competence of MiWay and their employees in terms of providing transit service. Mississauga isn't a small place where transit is a foreign concept. Having to serve a sprawling suburb without integration with TTC, MiWay has an uphill battle and more than any other agency it does not have room for error. If all of the drivers were really so lazy and incompetent, it would be reflected in the numbers.

I am saying this from the perspective of a MiWay rider. Do you really think the 700 000 people in mississauga really give a crap about all that? They just want their buses to show up and be on time. That is DEFINITELY not happening. I do realize that it is not entirely possible for a bus to be on-time 100% of the time, but they should at least try. I once heard from a driver say that it was his first time all week being on time (on 13 N.) I am also not saying that it is the driver's fault, but however, it should be clear that a great majority of these issues come from the management higher up. If a bus is consistently late, then maybe leave the garage earlier or adjust the schedule to compensate. Instead, they regularly let the bus run late. It has gotten to the point that I usually know that the 46 will be a few minutes late at all times. Now, thats kinda sad if you ask me.

As with the drivers, I do realize that there are many good drivers at MiWay, but think again from the majority of transit riders: are they going to remember the good or the bad drivers? Really good drivers are quite rare with miway, and most normal drivers people are not going to really remember. This means that the bad drivers will leave the biggest impression on the riders, which means although it is only a small portion of the drivers, it is still unacceptable and will make people think that most MiWay drivers are shit.

 

Bottom line: Most riders don't care if the issues are not the drivers fault or how hard it is to keep on schedule. If the bus is mostly late, they will think that MiWay is shit.

52 minutes ago, MiWay0310 said:

I think i've mentioned that there is no factual basis for my arguments, it is just an experience over the course of many years. Okay, if you're so eager to post stats and facts, why don't you go and find some schedule adherence facts? What percentage of their buses actually arrive on time? But then again, MiWay's considers a bus to be on time if it is within 5-10 minutes of the scheduled time, so that defeats the purpose (I know that fact was written somewhere, can't find it). 

 

I think I heard somewhere that in Japan, if a train is even one minute off schedule, that is a serious issue.

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5 hours ago, drum118 said:

I saw 2 300's at CCTT today with fresh orange paint strip with new logo on them and look like 323 has been repainted. Odd they were done considering they will be gone in 6 months, yet newer buses have the old logo. No idea if they had problems and it require them to be painted.

26 had a bad Friday to the point never saw an eastbound bus in the 30 minute I waited at Wolfdale while watching 3 go west. I ended up walking to Confederation and no bus pass me to the point I had to change my travel plan at this point since I was 45 minutes behind schedule. No idea what happen around South Common Mall area for the delay. All stops had riders waiting for the 26 with a few doing the walk also.

Hello people 👋

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On 2017-09-17 at 10:41 PM, Theontariotransit_fan said:

Hello people 👋

Welcome to CPTDB. I know you're new here, but I would really recommend that you don't post this here or in any thread next time. It's not necessary. A thread is only for discussing a specific topic, not posting off-topic like this. Only post if it is relevant to the topic next time, please and thank you. 

BTW, the admins tend to give you a warning point for this kind of offense. Also, the warning point never goes away, it's permanently on your account.

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22 hours ago, Theontariotransit_fan said:

Hello people 👋

Me and MiWay 0310 are in a serious debate session against the rest of the thread right now. It would also be beneficial if you DO NOT post these things as there is a good chance @ADB might give you a warning point which stays on your account forever. @ADB is very salty and loves giving new users warning points as a way of welcoming them into CPTDB. Also don't when you try to submit a feature photo, don't expect them to choose it because they only choose photos from old users. #shade

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On 9/14/2017 at 11:03 PM, MiWay0310 said:

I took GO every day. That, in my opinion, is the model system of the GTA. Drivers are always on the ball, always on time (some times too on time). The sense of urgency with their drivers is clear and they don't let anything get in their way. Yes, it has a heavy focus on highway use, but there is a clear difference in the training their drivers get and the training MiWay drivers get. Maybe its high time we learned from them. 

Ha.

Ha.

You're funny.

I take GO every weekday and their drivers are most certainly not always on time. Most notably during rush hour, but also, if there's even one person who has an issue with their PRESTO card or elects to pay with cash fare, it throws a real spanner into the works. Expecting 100% schedule adherence from any transit agency is a pie in the sky fantasy that shouldn't be entertained for a second.

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1 hour ago, PCC Guy said:

Ha.

Ha.

You're funny.

I take GO every weekday and their drivers are most certainly not always on time. Most notably during rush hour, but also, if there's even one person who has an issue with their PRESTO card or elects to pay with cash fare, it throws a real spanner into the works. Expecting 100% schedule adherence from any transit agency is a pie in the sky fantasy that shouldn't be entertained for a second.

Well that's the goal isn't it? To have as many buses as on time as possible? Or are on-time buses now a luxury "that shouldn't be entertained for a second".  

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As many buses as on time as possible? Sure.

That's not what your post was saying though.

You were saying GO drivers were always on time, an emphatically untrue statement, and that transit agencies should model themselves after them. Even if MiWay started doing everything GO does, buses would still have a chance of being late, as they regularly are at GO.

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So clearly you don't understand a figure of speech. So, nowhere did I say that 100% of buses should be on time, but I did say that they should be aiming for or very close to that figure. Obviously 100% of buses being on time is impossible to achieve because of traffic, weather, accidents, whatever is happening in the local area at the time. However, I did find that GO Transit's buses were consistently on time. There was the odd day every month or so where the traffic gets pretty nuts, i.e. on Yonge Street by the USBT. But I'm not going to talk about GOT here otherwise people will want to chew me out. My initial mentioning of GOT was just as a reference in case you were wondering. 

But as a closing remark for you, GOT says close to 95% of its buses are on time. I don't think they're pulling out of their ass right? 

 

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