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Orion VIII

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35 is the successor to the 89, which an express route. The 35 is not going anywhere anytime soon. Personally, I like the 7/34/35 setup on Eglinton. It's very convenient, why change that?

Any changes will likely be after the BRT is open I heard- thats where all their efforts are focused. You're right, the setup isn't bad. I never said to eliminate the 35, the idea of an extra express route was just wishful thinking.

Courtneypark, particularly the 6:50 pm one (the last of the day) is a really good bet to find one. Of course it's almost too late for that now unless you do it this afternoon.

I'm interested in knowing whether they will "downgrade" some of the New Flyer buses (maybe part of the 2003's as they're the oldest) to essentially replace the role those 34 Orion's had at CP. The 01's will likely do this for sure, as I think they have been all along - I tend to think those 97's that may have been out for the better part of the day on 10 or 45 or 53 were chosen over the 01's on purpose.

The fact that they will roll back to the garage under their own power and, then be parked for good is a bit sickening to me. How many folks have a brand new car waiting in the garage for two months until it's decided that today is the day that the old one, which still runs fine, is no good anymore? Not to sound like that other Rob, but maybe there's some gravy in Mississauga too.

Rode an orion v for the last time today on 53n from square one around 3p. The seats looked pretty new. I saw one with "training" on the desto sign at the transit terminal also. Maybe that's what they will be used for. I wish they would keep using them too, which leaves me wondering if they will just be scrapped?

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Any changes will likely be after the BRT is open I heard- thats where all their efforts are focused. The problem with eglinton routes is they are a lot like 1 dundas imo, stopping way too often. If you need to get even half way across the city during rush hour it will take 30 minutes.

Rode an orion v for the last time today on 53n from square one around 3p. The seats looked pretty new. I saw one with "training" on the desto sign at the transit terminal also. Maybe that's what they will be used for. I wish they would keep using them too, which leaves me wondering if they will just be scrapped?

Hard to sell something today that isn't accessible. I suppose there might be someone who would take a couple of them and use them in some sort of limited backup service, but I doubt anyone would take all of them unless they were destined for South America or something like that.

What happened in the end to all of the Orion VI's? They were rumored to be headed somewhere foreign at the time.

We can probably tell a lot from what they do with them. The new ones have been inside for all these weeks and I think many of those Orions have too, so there should be room for at least some to sit inside. If they just shove them all outside along the east part of the building, especially in the colder weather, the chances of anyone driving them away I think become significantly less. I'd bet if someone wants them with reuse in mind they'll be gone soon.

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Any changes will likely be after the BRT is open I heard- thats where all their efforts are focused. The problem with eglinton routes is they are a lot like 1 dundas imo, stopping way too often. If you need to get even half way across the city during rush hour it will take 30 minutes.

Hence the introduction of the 201 on Dundas. It's express running but treated as a local route. I guess the biggest improvement would be to make the 89 a two-way route when it's running. Perhaps then it can get bumped into the 200-series. The 89 itself makes, in my opinion, way too many stops. It seems like it makes stops wherever there's a traffic light. I can only think of a few intersections that have lights but don't have an express stop (Ellesboro, Sherwood Mills/Princelea, Fallingbrook/Willow Creek, Heatherleigh, Kingsbridge Garden/Fairwind, Sorrento, Explorer). Now that there's the 35 EGLINTON, they should pare back the stops to maybe locations with connecting routes.

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The 209 running on Britannia, Creditview and Rathburn will probably be a valuable route for commuters if they can get it into Erindale GO station. The southbound stop (Rathburn & Deer Run Ct.), while manageable is somewhat inconvenient since it would involve crossing Creditview and then getting into the station. Using Burnhamthorpe would solve that. Although given the traffic getting in in the morning (construction aside), perhaps they could throw in an HOV lane say from at least the 403 if not further north to separate the people heading to the industrial area south of Burnhamthorpe from those heading into the station. Those commuters, due to the size of the parking lot are often driven to the station, and would possibly be able to use the HOV lanes. I don't know what impact the additional parking spaces will have on this trend.

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Any changes will likely be after the BRT is open I heard- thats where all their efforts are focused. The problem with eglinton routes is they are a lot like 1 dundas imo, stopping way too often. If you need to get even half way across the city during rush hour it will take 30 minutes.

If express service is really so much better, why not make every route express?

With transit, you can't just factor in the time spent on the bus, you also have to factor in the time spent walking to the stop and waiting at the bus stop. Getting rid of 35 and replacing it with express would either increase walk times or reduce frequencies (increasing wait times) and at the same time only reduce the time spent on the bus between Renforth and Hurontario by maybe 5 minutes.

Express service is just problematic with any sort of bus priority measures and/or all-door boarding and I don't there is much benefit.

Personally I think they should just get rid of 89 altogether and just give the 27 two-way service instead. Of course, the argument can be made that any express service along Eglinton would be redundant with a completed Mississauga Transitway...

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If express service is really so much better, why not make every route express?

With transit, you can't just factor in the time spent on the bus, you also have to factor in the time spent walking to the stop and waiting at the bus stop. Getting rid of 35 and replacing it with express would either increase walk times or reduce frequencies (increasing wait times) and at the same time only reduce the time spent on the bus between Renforth and Hurontario by maybe 5 minutes.

Express service is just problematic with any sort of bus priority measures and/or all-door boarding and I don't there is much benefit.

Personally I think they should just get rid of 89 altogether and just give the 27 two-way service instead. Of course, the argument can be made that any express service along Eglinton would be redundant with a completed Mississauga Transitway...

If the idea of intoducing express service on Eglinton is so persistent, another way of doing it would be to have th 35A make limited stops say east of Erin Mills/Credit Valley kinda like TTC express branches. They should only stop where a transfer to an intersecting route can be made. Similar to the setup with the 19 and 103, if you need to switch between the two you do so at a common stop. The 35A runs at rush hour only, so it wouldn't be that bad. The BRT will have some impact on long-distance trips, but this should improve medium-distance trips. You could then adjust the 35's schedule to more evenly blend with the 34 and 7. The 35A could run independently since it would be leapfrogging the other routes.

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There seems to be a spate of new shelters going up. Maybe in anticiapation of winter?

The rest of this post is just a mixed bag of observations:

The lettered stops at City Centre Terminal seems to have been rejigged. The Express/Züm stop has now been designated as "A", then through the Terminal, then the on-street stops west of the Terminal. The 109 stop on the north side of the street is still labelled "O".

One interesting bus stop I've noticed is the one at the northwest corner of Hurontario and Queensway. It's one of the new "lollipop" bus stops. Seeing as the 19, 19A, 19B, 19C, 38, 38A and 103 all stop there each one takes up a slot on the info board. With an apparent limit of 6 routes, the 103 gets slotted on the back side of the board. A passenger approaching southbound only sees the blue express slot, while a northbound one will only see the orange local slots leading to some possible confusion if you don't know to check the other side of the board. Given that each of the branches only operate at certain times of the week I understand the logic of listing each one. I don't suppose they could have combined some of them since all the branches within each route are headed to the same destination. Similar to the TTC having a single desto for branches all headed to the same terminus. How about making the "lollipop" blue if it's an express stop?

Does anyone know if there are going to be any changes (temporary most likely) to the service out of Cooksville GO? There are a pair of temporary bus stops covered with "NOT IN USE" signs on either side of Hillcrest at the station's entrance.

Has anyone ventured to purchase one of the new $2 transit maps? Anything interesting or new in there other than the reported paper quality?

Still noticing some inconsistencies in the stop naming conventions for the AA. Biggest improvement would probably be the use of nearside and farside or at least the direction: south side of... or north side of... instead of north of... (which in my opinion makes the location sound vague). Stops at walkways are sometimes announced as such, other times the stop is announced in reference to another street. If the route is making a turn and can't stop right at an intersection, I think passengers will understand. Just call the stop as that street, it'd tell you that if you want that street this is where you get off. Calling it west of... gives me, especially with the use of that format, the impression that there may be another stop. It sounds like there may have been more than one recording session as some stops sound lower/deeper than others. Perhaps to correct a local pronunciation? Is it the same lady that does the CityLink voice?

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9713 on the 57 this morning.

There's a YouTube video out there that shows 9713 with what looks to be a black floor covering installed in the aisle replacing the original blue one. Are there any other buses that they did this to?

And to confirm, 9708 (left side) and 9705 (right side) are the only other buses (besides 9707) that retain at least one original orange stripe?

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I don't think they have printed the new maps yet- at least that's what I've been told by marketing.

Will we see the xcelsiors tomorrow? Are the hybrids ever used on any highway routes? It occurred to me the electric motor may not be capable of such high speeds, as I haven't seen any hybrids on routes that use the 427.

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I don't think they have printed the new maps yet- at least that's what I've been told by marketing.

Will we see the xcelsiors tomorrow? Are the hybrids ever used on any highway routes? It occurred to me the electric motor may not be capable of such high speeds, as I haven't seen any hybrids on routes that use the 427.

Brampton's hybrid Xcelsiors have no problem on the 407 when assigned to the 501A, so I imagine they won't be a problem for Mississauga.

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Brampton's hybrid Xcelsiors have no problem on the 407 when assigned to the 501A, so I imagine they won't be a problem for Mississauga.

You're comparing apples to oranges. MiWay has the series BAE hybrid system installed in Orion buses, while Brampton has the parallel Allison hybrid system installed in New Flyer buses. They are completely different systems in completely different vehicles.

A much fairer comparison would be the TTC's hybrids which also use BAE; they are restricted from use on the 191 Highway 27 Rocket which should tell you something.

In other news, the Orion Vs were still out in strong force today at Islington. 9701, 9702, 9704, 9714, 9718, 9720, 9724, 9733 all went through between 4 and 5 this afternoon.

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Uhhh, they haven't been banned from the highway in almost 3 years.

Dan

If there not banned then it must just be an Arrow Rd policy to not send them out on 191, probably to reduce the chances of any problems possibly occurring. According to my source Arrow Rd drivers are still being told to refuse the Hybrids, or Nova RTSes for that matter, if they are assigned one while doing the 191. Before the rerouting of 139 last year though, Hybrids were sent out on it often. But then again it did run along the 404 for a much shorter distance than the 191 does on the 427.

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There's a YouTube video out there that shows 9713 with what looks to be a black floor covering installed in the aisle replacing the original blue one. Are there any other buses that they did this to?

9713 is the only one that had that done and it was done back in 2007. The black flooring runs along the aisle and the stairways at both the front and back doors. The blue flooring was retained on the sides and the wheel wells.

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If there not banned then it must just be an Arrow Rd policy to not send them out on 191, probably to reduce the chances of any problems possibly occurring. According to my source Arrow Rd drivers are still being told to refuse the Hybrids, or Nova RTSes for that matter, if they are assigned one while doing the 191.

It must be an internal policy, and a more recent one at that. I personally rode along with a couple of operators - who have since moved to other divisions - who ran hybrids on the 191.

Dan

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It must be an internal policy, and a more recent one at that. I personally rode along with a couple of operators - who have since moved to other divisions - who ran hybrids on the 191.

Dan

Maybe "banned" was a little poorly worded... "discouraged" might be a more appropriate word. I've ridden an NG hybrid on the 191 before (many years ago) and it performed adequately. However, the fact that the TTC moved enough diesel VIIs to Arrow to operate the 191 (7900-7919) when Arrow was being shifted towards an all-hybrid (and RTS) division seems to say that the hybrids don't perform very well on the highway. I know that the OG hybrids performed much worse than the NGs though, and were on a much stricter "discouragement" than the NGs.

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speaking of 9713: Its on the 45a this morning.

When are they going off the road?

I've spotted a few of them that have their plates extended to October 2012, so some could still stick around for a little while longer.

Also the new 11s are for sure in service today - heard that 1120 is on the 35 right now.

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It must be an internal policy, and a more recent one at that. I personally rode along with a couple of operators - who have since moved to other divisions - who ran hybrids on the 191.

Dan

Maybe "banned" was a little poorly worded... "discouraged" might be a more appropriate word. I've ridden an NG hybrid on the 191 before (many years ago) and it performed adequately. However, the fact that the TTC moved enough diesel VIIs to Arrow to operate the 191 (7900-7919) when Arrow was being shifted towards an all-hybrid (and RTS) division seems to say that the hybrids don't perform very well on the highway. I know that the OG hybrids performed much worse than the NGs though, and were on a much stricter "discouragement" than the NGs.

I know back in early 2008 or so Arrow Rd stopped using only the OG Hybrids on 191 but continued to use the NGs on it. It was up until around late 2008 when Mt Dennis opened that they stopped using the NGs on it as well and made it diesel only, although I'm sure an NG has made it out once in a while on it since then. IIRC someone reported seeing an NG on 191 this past Spring/Summer.

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