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Orion VIII

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On 10/1/2022 at 3:05 PM, AWEChess1 said:

Any word on when we might see articulated buses on route 110, or some sort of adjustment to UTM service in general? I'm a student who also happens to be a transit geek and the current issues I'm seeing on the ground are concerning. 110 normally appears to be scheduled at 15-minute headways but there are numerous times when the buses have bunched together leading to situations like a 5-minute gap followed by no buses for at least 20 minutes. Route 44 appears to be acting as a feeder for Eglinton and Burnhamthorpe from to the campus, which means it is packed to the doors-closed point but then empties out significantly after reaching Eglinton. This is also leading to long lineups at the campus bus stop during peak times which will become very uncomfortable once the weather gets colder.

Curious if the more experienced folks here have any insights.

I guess there was enough feedback that MiWay made a visit to UTM and as per the posters visible in this tweet, the 44 and 110 will recieve additional trips on weekdays. However no implementation date was provided on the posters so who know when the extra trips will actually materialize. 

16 hours ago, Gil said:

I'm still somewhat stumped by the placement of the stops at Dixie and Bloor.  It looks like a holdover from when a route ran east on Bloor and then north on Dixie, but nothing like that service seems to have existed.  The gas station would force any farside stop that far north for the northbound stop, but why wasn't there ever a nearside stop?

The 7 'Malton-Dixie' (as it was called then) ran west on Bloor and north on Dixie as per the October 21, 1974 system map but was revised in February 1975 to run via Dundas. I't possible the stop on Dixie was located on the north side of Bloor to accommodate easy transfers between the routes 3, 5 and 7 as the 7 was the only route that connected to Malton at the time. It could have also been just based on what the demand/transfer patterns were at the time (more people transferring westbound to northbound for work in the industrial areas) and the same could hold true for some of the stop placements in all the old industrial areas where some are placed close together, and often right beside the driveways of various facilities.

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What does it mean when a bus mysteriously appears at stations along a given route, but is not shown on the tracker or the schedule? Example: today a 110 bus showed up at the Erin Mills Transitway station. The bus was labeled "110 University Express" (rear sign "110"). Note that there was no N or S added to the end like there usually would be. The only special message was "ENDS AT UTM" appearing on the front board every so often. The bus made every southbound stop along the way to UTM and then went out of service rather than going north.

This is the second time I've seen this happen. Is it a run-as-directed bus like the TTC sometimes uses? Quite curious.

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8 hours ago, MiExpress said:

I guess there was enough feedback that MiWay made a visit to UTM and as per the posters visible in this tweet, the 44 and 110 will recieve additional trips on weekdays. However no implementation date was provided on the posters so who know when the extra trips will actually materialize. 

...
The 7 'Malton-Dixie' (as it was called then) ran west on Bloor and north on Dixie as per the October 21, 1974 system map but was revised in February 1975 to run via Dundas. I't possible the stop on Dixie was located on the north side of Bloor to accommodate easy transfers between the routes 3, 5 and 7 as the 7 was the only route that connected to Malton at the time. It could have also been just based on what the demand/transfer patterns were at the time (more people transferring westbound to northbound for work in the industrial areas) and the same could hold true for some of the stop placements in all the old industrial areas where some are placed close together, and often right beside the driveways of various facilities.

I saw that, but as you mentioned the route ran west along Bloor then north on Dixie.  A nearside stop on Dixie would have sufficed for the 5 DIXIE with the 3 BLOOR and 7 MALTON-DIXIE serving the stop situated just east of the gas station's Bloor driveways.  The gas station's driveways probably also forced the stop to be located that far north in the absence of a nearside stop.  The walking distances are probably the same between a nearside and farside stop, but the farside stop does not require passengers to cross Bloor to make transfers between the 3 BLOOR and 5 DIXIE.  The routing of the 7 MALTON-DIXIE meant there wasn't really a need to transfer in the west to north direction unless you didn't want to wait for the one-seat ride.

1 hour ago, AWEChess1 said:

What does it mean when a bus mysteriously appears at stations along a given route, but is not shown on the tracker or the schedule? Example: today a 110 bus showed up at the Erin Mills Transitway station. The bus was labeled "110 University Express" (rear sign "110"). Note that there was no N or S added to the end like there usually would be. The only special message was "ENDS AT UTM" appearing on the front board every so often. The bus made every southbound stop along the way to UTM and then went out of service rather than going north.

This is the second time I've seen this happen. Is it a run-as-directed bus like the TTC sometimes uses? Quite curious.

Buses which don't display the cardinal direction are short-turns, with "ENDS AT..." on the desto.  The 110 UNIVERSITY EXPRESS has a few trips, high school trippers (when they were in use) and buses going out of service at some point other than the end of the route (usually at a point they can easily access a garage like Creditview/Central Pkwy.)

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1 hour ago, Gil said:

I saw that, but as you mentioned the route ran west along Bloor then north on Dixie.  A nearside stop on Dixie would have sufficed for the 5 DIXIE with the 3 BLOOR and 7 MALTON-DIXIE serving the stop situated just east of the gas station's Bloor driveways.  The gas station's driveways probably also forced the stop to be located that far north in the absence of a nearside stop.  The walking distances are probably the same between a nearside and farside stop, but the farside stop does not require passengers to cross Bloor to make transfers between the 3 BLOOR and 5 DIXIE.  The routing of the 7 MALTON-DIXIE meant there wasn't really a need to transfer in the west to north direction unless you didn't want to wait for the one-seat ride.

Having the northbound Dixie stop be on the nearside would mean that it would only be served by the route 5, and the route 7 would serve a different stop. This means that anybody who was boarding at that intersection (or transferring from the eastbound route 3 for example) would have to make a choice of 2 different stops to wait at if they wanted to go north. If someone chose wrong, they'd have a longer wait, or a frantic run across traffic. Having a farside stop would allow all northbound services on Dixie use the same stop, meaning people didn't have to guess which bus was coming first. Safer and more customer-friendly.

Why the stop has never moved to the more conventional (and possibly more convenient) nearside position seems to be a classic case of bureaucratic inertia.

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9 hours ago, AWEChess1 said:

What does it mean when a bus mysteriously appears at stations along a given route, but is not shown on the tracker or the schedule? Example: today a 110 bus showed up at the Erin Mills Transitway station. The bus was labeled "110 University Express" (rear sign "110"). Note that there was no N or S added to the end like there usually would be. The only special message was "ENDS AT UTM" appearing on the front board every so often. The bus made every southbound stop along the way to UTM and then went out of service rather than going north.

This is the second time I've seen this happen. Is it a run-as-directed bus like the TTC sometimes uses? Quite curious.

 

7 hours ago, Gil said:

Buses which don't display the cardinal direction are short-turns, with "ENDS AT..." on the desto.  The 110 UNIVERSITY EXPRESS has a few trips, high school trippers (when they were in use) and buses going out of service at some point other than the end of the route (usually at a point they can easily access a garage like Creditview/Central Pkwy.)

This is the signage that the short trips between City Centre and UTM have used. In past years when UTM is in session the 110 was scheduled with short turn trips that only operated between City Centre and UTM with every second bus on the route going to Clarkson allowing for 8 minutes service between City Centre and UTM at the busiest times of the day, and 15 minutes during the midday. This year MiWay didn't implement that service design and used the summer service frequency of 15-20 minutes which is why there's been so many issues with the 110. 

Currently there are none of these short turn trips officially scheduled, however it sounds like MiWay may be running additional trips here and there when possible to try and alleviate the overcrowding. A bus won't appear on any trackers unless it is actually in the existing schedule. So yeah, "run as directed" is a good way of putting it.

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As it stands, buses are been allocated to routes that need more service than others regardless of size and colour that there is an imbalance of both colour and size fleet wise.

Some of those so call extra trippers are buses schedule to go into service on X route for peak service and this is killing 2 birds with one stone.

With the delivery of the first 165 hybrid buses to to start showing up mid-late Nov and fully deliver in 2023, the issue with imbalance within the fleet cannot be fully address until then. Surprise surprise, late delivery is due to supply chain issues. Don't expect to see any new buses in service until Jan 1st, unless there are more failure with the buses due to retire before then.

As for the northbound stop at Bloor on Dixie is both an safety issue as well a non accessibly stop. Time to close off those turning lanes to build the side walkout along closing the south entrance to the gas station and put the bus stop there, or put it at the corner on the south side. They are doing this on Hurontario now with Eglinton being the first one done.

More buses are been assign to route 2 for Oct 28-31 to dealing with traffic delays as well longer trips time and staying with the schedule time. Route 8 will remain as is.

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Is it normal for a bus's interior lights to go out when the driver switches into reverse? I was on the 48S about an hour ago and when we were reversing out of Meadowvale the interior lights turned off; we were on a D40, so I'm wondering if thats a thing with all busses or if its just a D40/New Flyer thing

 

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26 minutes ago, Orion_II said:

Is it normal for a bus's interior lights to go out when the driver switches into reverse? I was on the 48S about an hour ago and when we were reversing out of Meadowvale the interior lights turned off; we were on a D40, so I'm wondering if thats a thing with all busses or if its just a D40/New Flyer thing

 

Normal yes, its so the driver can have better visibility vs having the reflections of the lights coming off the windows. Its also why some buses have the first few lights up front turned off at night. 

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48 minutes ago, Orion_II said:

Is it normal for a bus's interior lights to go out when the driver switches into reverse? I was on the 48S about an hour ago and when we were reversing out of Meadowvale the interior lights turned off; we were on a D40, so I'm wondering if thats a thing with all busses or if its just a D40/New Flyer thing

 

When a bus goes in reverse, the interior lights turn off yes. It is for visibility at night.

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4 hours ago, AWEChess1 said:

Interesting. On Google Maps and the Transit app there no longer seems to be any real-time data.

I just checked google maps and your right, it doesnt seem to currently be working at all for MiWay. My guess is its some kind of issue with google maps as transsee and T55 still seem to be working fine.

I have never used the transit app, but i have noticed google maps often shows the wrong info for MiWay buses, and doesnt seem to be very reliable. I reccomend using transsee, it seems to be the most reliable for tracking MiWay buses.

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On 10/13/2022 at 3:49 AM, MiExpress said:

Route 46 will have one all day bus removed (3 to 2) reducing the weekday frequency from 23 to 35 minutes all day.

As for service increases:

  • Route 2's weekday evening service between 6-9pm improves from 10 to 8 minutes
  • Route 26's weekday rush hour frequency improves from 17 to 14 minutes; midday and evening service improves from 26 to 21 minutes. This essentially restores the pre-covid service levels on the route.
  • Route 7's Saturday midday frequency improves from 30 to 24 minutes; Sunday all day frequency improves from 40 to 30 minutes.

While budgeted service hours are still a issue resulting in some cases of "robbing peter to pay paul" hopefully with new drivers being hired this fall the staffing situation will be less of a issue. The strong rumour is there will be another redesign of the Derry service in the new year, with the a new variant being reintroduced operating between Sheridan College and Humber College. Presumably this would be accomplished by reworking the 42A design and cancelling route 18, and depending on what route it takes in the east end possible changes to routes 22 and 30.

Well they've officially announced the Service Change on the 46 TENTH LINE-OSPREY stating that they take effect next week, along with an adjustment to the 9 RATHBURN-THOMAS to better match the GO Train schedule at Streetsville GO.  Due to the strike tomorrow, MiWay is also suspending service on all 300-series routes.  They are warning due to the schools being closed they may face staffing shortages on other routes.  How often are these ridership pattern reviews undertaken that they implement them in the middle of a board period?  They should also either try and figure out how to space out the service along Eglinton between the 7 AIRPORT, 35 EGLINTON and 87 MEADOWVALE-SKYMARK or get some artics on the 35 as it's still usually operating closed door service (and late due to the number of passengers) east of Hurontario during the morning rush.  The 87 MEADOWVALE-SKYMARK is hard to work with since it's tied into the 43 MATHESON-ARGENTIA, but perhaps better awareness of the route as an alternative which still has plenty of capacity in the morning might help with the 35 EGLINTON.

I've also run into an odd issue with the Triplinx planner suggesting a route that doesn't exist.  Well, it's telling me to make a transfer at a given time when there actually isn't a bus scheduled.  I've cross-checked with Transit55 and usually ignore the suggested trip since the transfer is actually much longer than what it tells me.  It's not a matter of the bus running late, just a glitch in the planning software it seems.

Service adjustments on Routes 46 and 9

Starting Monday, Nov. 7, 2022, MiWay will be adjusting the service frequency and adding a new trip on Route 46 Tenth Line-Osprey. Schedules will also be adjusted on Route 9 Rathburn-Thomas to align with train departures at the Streetsville GO Station.

Route 46 service adjustments

The service frequency on Route 46 Tenth Line-Osprey will be reduced on weekdays to 35 minutes due to lower rider demand. There is no change to the weekend service frequency.

This service reduction was identified during a review of rider patterns across the MiWay network. The resources saved from this reduction will be reinvested back into the MiWay network to prevent overcrowding on busier routes.

New trip added on Route 46

A 7:46 am trip departing Meadowvale Town Centre (stop #1374) will be added for students at John Fraser and St. Aloysius Gonzaga secondary schools to continue to meet the morning bell times of the schools.

Route 9 schedule adjustments at Streetsville GO Station

Trip time adjustments will be made on Route 9 Rathburn-Thomas to align with train departure times at Streetsville GO Station.

  • The 5:43 am eastbound trip departing from Churchill Meadows Community Centre Terminal (stop #3419) will change to 5:46 am to arrive at the Streetsville GO station for 6 am.
  • The 7:51 am eastbound trip departing from Churchill Meadows Community Centre Terminal (stop #3419) will change to 7:45 am to arrive at the Streetsville GO station for 8 am.
  • The 8:35 am eastbound trip departing from Churchill Meadows Community Centre Terminal (stop #3419) will change to 8:30 am to arrive at the Streetsville GO station for 8:45 am.

School routes temporarily suspended on Friday, Nov. 4

MiWay’s 300-series routes to and from high schools will be temporarily suspended on Nov. 4 due to the planned closure of schools in the Peel District School Board and Dufferin Peel Catholic District School Board.

These routes will remain suspended as long as the Peel District School Board and Dufferin Peel Catholic District School Board schools are closed.

View the latest updates from Peel District School Board and Dufferin Peel Catholic District School Board.

On Friday, Nov. 4, 2022, temporary trip cancellations may also occur on other routes across the transit system due to staffing challenges.

For the most up-to-date information, please check real-time information online or call Customer Service at 905-615-4636.

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46 probably should be rerouted along Ridgeway/Winston Park/Speakman, which would also allow 45 to be taken off those streets as well.

48 is another route that needs to be extended. Erin Mills/Southdown was one of Mississauga's busiest north-south corridors, but the truncation of 48 really killed the ridership. 39 ridership skyrocketed after extension to Renforth. You'd think they learn from that. 28/66 needs to be combined as well.

Speaking of 39 and Churchill Meadows and Meadowvale area, they will have to find a way to take 39 off Lisgar soon. The route has become too busy for such a small street, and it will only become busier. Not just higher frequencies, but maybe artics will return to the route as well. Maybe extension of 49 along Lisgar is the answer. 49 is another route that is too short, while 39 is maybe too long. Extension of 49 would solve both problems.

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4 hours ago, ngdvd said:

46 probably should be rerouted along Ridgeway/Winston Park/Speakman, which would also allow 45 to be taken off those streets as well.

48 is another route that needs to be extended. Erin Mills/Southdown was one of Mississauga's busiest north-south corridors, but the truncation of 48 really killed the ridership. 39 ridership skyrocketed after extension to Renforth. You'd think they learn from that. 28/66 needs to be combined as well.

Speaking of 39 and Churchill Meadows and Meadowvale area, they will have to find a way to take 39 off Lisgar soon. The route has become too busy for such a small street, and it will only become busier. Not just higher frequencies, but maybe artics will return to the route as well. Maybe extension of 49 along Lisgar is the answer. 49 is another route that is too short, while 39 is maybe too long. Extension of 49 would solve both problems.

From the yet-to-be-fully-implemented MiWay5plan:

image.thumb.png.0449e7eefa6a678a5a534d1d59c4ab59.png(originally slated for October 2020)

Ideally one of the routes should be extended south along Ridgeway.  If you went with the proposed 50 LISGAR-CHURCHILL MEADOWS you're left with a gap along Erin Centre, which itself doesn't have complete coverage across its length.  If the 34 CREDIT VALLEY survives, it should, after serving the hospital go straight to Erin Mills TC and then run along the length of Erin Centre to the Churchill Meadows CC.  Otherwise bring back the 35A to run along Erin Centre or create a new route to form a proper grid in Churchill Meadows.  Run the 46 TENTH LINE-OSPREY to Winston Churchill station possibly through the neighbourhood south of Eglinton like the old 33 ERIN CENTRE LOOP.  Or you could run the 49 McDOWELL down Ridgeway since it's a peak hour route to Winston Park or the proposed Laird terminal.  Running it to South Common would provide two-way service on Burnhamthorpe to Ridgeway albeit at peak hours unless it gets additional service hours.

There's still the matter of Milton Transit also implementing service along Britannia and needing a place to turn around and also connect with MiWay services.  At least until the terminal at Meadowvale TC or GO is redesigned to allow for additional routes.  If they really wanted to serve Meadowvale Town Centre, they could do what the GO buses do and just travel around the block rather than stop at the terminal.

As for the 48 ERIN MILLS, truncating it meant cutting off the bulk of its passengers who came from south of Burnhamthorpe/South Common.  It is a bit of a dog's breakfast between the 13 GLEN ERIN, 29 PARK ROYAL-HOMELANDS and 48 ERIN MILLS.  If they're trying to match service levels and have the bulk of the service along Glen Erin, then merging the 29 and 48 is an option.  It forces a transfer for anyone wanting to continue past Burnhamthorpe/South Common on either Glen Erin or Erin Mills. 

The whole grid network west of the Credit is a bit of a mess.  Only Britannia, Eglinton and Dundas get continuous service to Ninth Line (has Mississauga considered building its Laird terminal to Dundas & Ninth Line?).  Burnhamthorpe and Ninth Line is a roundabout, making turning the buses around easy enough to do, laying over with no facilities is the issue there until development in Oakville catches up.  Churchill Meadows has a finer grid network which on paper sounds like it will help, but it doesn't connect outside of the neighbourhood requiring some circuitous routes in order to do so.  I mean imagine trying to make the trip from Erin Centre and Oscar Peterson (between Churchill Meadows and Winston Churchill) to the Churchill Meadows Community Centre with the current route setup!  It's either a walk down to Eglinton or very out-of-the-way single transfer at Tenth and Thomas or Erin Mills and Eglinton.  

As for the Confederation/McLaughlin corridor, there seems to be a clean enough break in demand north and south of Rathburn that bypassing City Centre might be problematic.  Making the 66 McLAUGHLIN even longer will likely incur delays on an already packed route.  Again, if you want to match service levels, pairing the 28 CONFEDERATION with the 68 TERRY FOX might be more feasible.  Historically it wouldn't be unheardof with the 28 CONFEDERATION running up to Bristol (via Hurontario) as early as 1988 before being split off into what would later become the 68 BRISTOL LOOP>WINDSOR HILL>TERRY FOX.  It would mirror the old 38 CREDITVIEW routing when it ran to the Mississauga Hospital.  Perhaps once the redevelopment of the hospital is complete they may consider it?

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15 hours ago, Gil said:

Run the 46 TENTH LINE-OSPREY to Winston Churchill station possibly through the neighbourhood south of Eglinton like the old 33 ERIN CENTRE LOOP.

Hmm, you seem to have thought through this a lot more than I have, but it sounds awkward for UTM students, as 110 does not run west of Erin Mills station. If 46 terminates at Winston Churchill station, then commuting to UTM via 46 would now require 2 transfers: one at Winston Churchill to 109 in order to reach Erin Mills, and then another at Erin Mills to 110. Due to the relatively infrequent headways MiWay buses have, transfers are quite costly to commute time in my experience.

Perhaps this arrangement could work if 110 were changed to run to Winston Churchill instead of City Centre. This would mean those wishing to commute from CC to UTM now need to take 109 to Erin Mills and then transfer to 110. It might then be useful to align the 109 and 110 schedules such that transfers always "work" between those routes.

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17 hours ago, Gil said:

From the yet-to-be-fully-implemented MiWay5plan:

image.thumb.png.0449e7eefa6a678a5a534d1d59c4ab59.png(originally slated for October 2020)

Ideally one of the routes should be extended south along Ridgeway.  If you went with the proposed 50 LISGAR-CHURCHILL MEADOWS you're left with a gap along Erin Centre, which itself doesn't have complete coverage across its length.  If the 34 CREDIT VALLEY survives, it should, after serving the hospital go straight to Erin Mills TC and then run along the length of Erin Centre to the Churchill Meadows CC.  Otherwise bring back the 35A to run along Erin Centre or create a new route to form a proper grid in Churchill Meadows.  Run the 46 TENTH LINE-OSPREY to Winston Churchill station possibly through the neighbourhood south of Eglinton like the old 33 ERIN CENTRE LOOP.  Or you could run the 49 McDOWELL down Ridgeway since it's a peak hour route to Winston Park or the proposed Laird terminal.  Running it to South Common would provide two-way service on Burnhamthorpe to Ridgeway albeit at peak hours unless it gets additional service hours.

Problem with 49 McDowell is it would not connect to 39 Britannia and 42 Derry. So 46 Tenth Line or an revised version of that proposed 50 Lisgar-Churchill Meadows would be more ideal to service Ridgeway and Winston Park. This would also connect to 35 Eglinton and 1/101 Dundas. 26 Burnhamthorpe also should have been extended to Ridgeway when it was taken out of CCTT. As you say, grid is a mess in the west end, so whatever route serving Ridgeway could also help to fill the gaps in the grid west of Hurontario, and hopefully they keep this in mind. There are already the gaps at Erin Mills/Southdown and McLaughlin/Confederation that I mentioned, plus the lack of a continuous Mavis route.

17 hours ago, Gil said:

As for the 48 ERIN MILLS, truncating it meant cutting off the bulk of its passengers who came from south of Burnhamthorpe/South Common.  It is a bit of a dog's breakfast between the 13 GLEN ERIN, 29 PARK ROYAL-HOMELANDS and 48 ERIN MILLS.  If they're trying to match service levels and have the bulk of the service along Glen Erin, then merging the 29 and 48 is an option.  It forces a transfer for anyone wanting to continue past Burnhamthorpe/South Common on either Glen Erin or Erin Mills.

13 Glen Erin already switches to Erin Mills at South Common, so 48 Erin Mills switching to Glen Erin at South Common seems unnecessarily complicated. I'd rather see the 110 cut off south of UTM and 29 also cut off north of South Common. 13/29/48 south of South Common would be a lot better than 13/29/110 or 13/48/110, not only more useful, filling the gaps in the grid, but also simpler.

 

18 hours ago, Gil said:

As for the Confederation/McLaughlin corridor, there seems to be a clean enough break in demand north and south of Rathburn that bypassing City Centre might be problematic.  Making the 66 McLAUGHLIN even longer will likely incur delays on an already packed route.  Again, if you want to match service levels, pairing the 28 CONFEDERATION with the 68 TERRY FOX might be more feasible.  Historically it wouldn't be unheardof with the 28 CONFEDERATION running up to Bristol (via Hurontario) as early as 1988 before being split off into what would later become the 68 BRISTOL LOOP>WINDSOR HILL>TERRY FOX.  It would mirror the old 38 CREDITVIEW routing when it ran to the Mississauga Hospital.  Perhaps once the redevelopment of the hospital is complete they may consider it?

28 Confederation isn't some minor route serving some minor corridor like 68 Terry Fox. Confederation is a 4-lane road lined with high-rise condos and apartments and retail, connecting the CCTT and the hospital and passing through the heart of the Cooksville neighbourhood. Not only is Confederation the same corridor as McLaughlin, it is the busiest and densest part of that corridor.

28 Confederation saw 2,948 riders on a weekday in 2019. Considering the short length of the route, 28 Confederation was actually one of the busiest routes in Mississauga and the entire 905, on par with 5 Dixie and 26/76 Burnhamthorpe/City Centre-Subway (7,240 and 8,318 boardings on a weekday in 2019, respectively). Just imagine how much the ridership along Confederation could skyrocket with continuous service all the way into Brampton.

A combined 28/66 should continue to serve CCTT to connect with the Hurontario and transitway routes. They just need to take it off Redmond and out of Cooksville GO, and they will realize the potential of the Confederation/McLaughlin corridor. Alternatively, they could introduce a new route that bypasses CCTT and keep both 28 and 66, similar to the 7/34/35 arrangement along Eglinton.

66 McLaughlin saw 7,265 boardings on a weekday in 2019. That's 10,213 boardings combined for the Confederation/McLaughlin corridor, higher than what 7 Airport and 34 Credit Valley had before they finally introduced a continuous service with 35 Eglinton. Look at how the ridership of the Eglinton corridor skyrocketed after that. So it is just baffling to me they still don't have any kind of continuous service for Confederation/McLaughlin as well.

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