MiWay

[Gil]

1 hour ago, TransferCutter said:

To the public it might be Tuesday to Saturday but on the crew list and to drivers, it's Mon to Fri.  The new day still starts with the 4am (approx) punchins, hence the full length uncut transfer being used from the previous day for the over night, 24 hr service.  Unfortunately it's not what makes sense to the passenger/general public, it what mgmt and the computer dictates.  The public will think the new days starts at midnight but not so at Miway.

 

I was just using Tuesday to Saturday as a way of clarifying the overnight service.  Obviously a “service day” would straddle midnight.  Similar to a TTC Day Pass being valid until the start of service the following morning.  There unfortunately is no disclaimer with the overnight service without actually consulting the schedules that 3 of the 4 routes only operates on “weekdays”, with limited weekend service on the remaining route.  Quite the timid/cautious first foray into overnight service.  How long will they be evaluating it before expanding the service?

[drum118]

1 minute ago, Gil said:

I was just using Tuesday to Saturday as a way of clarifying the overnight service.  Obviously a “service day” would straddle midnight.  Similar to a TTC Day Pass being valid until the start of service the following morning.  There unfortunately is no disclaimer with the overnight service without actually consulting the schedules that 3 of the 4 routes only operates on “weekdays”, with limited weekend service on the remaining route.  Quite the timid/cautious first foray into overnight service.  How long will they be evaluating it before expanding the service?

As it stands now, these overnight routes will service a small area and small number of riders. Once you expand the number of routes that will service most of Mississauga, then you will see an increase of ridership 7 days a week, not the few plan ones. Need to have service every 30 min as max. Trying to run a route with only 1 or 2 buses is not going to cut it.

Will not see anymore new routes until 2020 when the next budget kicks in, unless council can find money to do it 6 months if the GM can make a case from now or out of reserves.

[Gil]

 

As it stands now, these overnight routes will service a small area and small number of riders. Once you expand the number of routes that will service most of Mississauga, then you will see an increase of ridership 7 days a week, not the few plan ones. Need to have service every 30 min as max. Trying to run a route with only 1 or 2 buses is not going to cut it.

Will not see anymore new routes until 2020 when the next budget kicks in, unless council can find money to do it 6 months if the GM can make a case from now or out of reserves.

I don't recall the overnight service being specifically mentioned in the City's budget documents which is why it seemed to come out of nowhere.  Unless it's lumped in with the regular service increases, in which case it's being paid for as an organic extension of service.  We'll have to wait and see where and when overnight service expansion occurs.

When will they start planning for the next 5 years (2021-2025)?  The Budget gives a few hints as to where they want to expand service, but nothing more elaborate. The current 5-year plan is nearly wrapped up. I'd be curious to compare the original plan implementation to what had actually happened.

[drum118]

4 hours ago, Gil said:

I don't recall the overnight service being specifically mentioned in the City's budget documents which is why it seemed to come out of nowhere.  Unless it's lumped in with the regular service increases, in which case it's being paid for as an organic extension of service.  We'll have to wait and see where and when overnight service expansion occurs.

When will they start planning for the next 5 years (2021-2025)?  The Budget gives a few hints as to where they want to expand service, but nothing more elaborate. The current 5-year plan is nearly wrapped up. I'd be curious to compare the original plan implementation to what had actually happened.

Like you, never saw it in the 2019 budget for all night service nor stated as increase of service hours. Something must had been said during the budget process that this was to take place. Wasn't at any of the budget meetings this round.

The next 5 year plan is to start with public meetings this year and be approve in 2020. 

[Gil]

Given that there wasn’t any mention of overnight service in the Budget documents, could it be that businesses with night shifts offered to help pay for the service to benefit their staff?  It could explain why the 1, 3 and 7 don’t operate on weekends.

[Basket]

Miway driver at islington sticking the finger at passengers for some fight...

[mikenoza]

On 5/6/2019 at 11:26 PM, Basket said:

Miway driver at islington sticking the finger at passengers for some fight...

Not good. Any video out there of that? Could end up on 6ixbuzz. 

[Kelvin3157]

2 hours ago, mikenoza said:

Not good. Any video out there of that? Could end up on 6ixbuzz. 

Not 6ixbuzz worthy, Saugabuzz ehh

[Gil]

Somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but do the staff not know where the CCTT is or did the City arrange a land swap with Whole Foods? 

The base map is also a bit dated with the Duke of York roundabout missing along with the completed Square One Drive and Parkside subdivision.

[MiExpress]

On 5/1/2019 at 5:02 PM, Gil said:

Transit Toronto has done a bit more poking around with the 24-hour service (despite some transposing errors in the route descriptions) and it turns out the overnight service is available on the 1 DUNDAS, 3 BLOOR and 7 AIRPORT on weeknights (or early mornings Tuesday to Saturday), while the 19 HURONTARIO overnight service is offered every night with a variety of short turns and looping arrangements.  Seeing as GO does provide some service between Pearson and City Centre, not having the 7 AIRPORT run 7 nights a weeks is acceptable.  Between the 1 DUNDAS and 3 BLOOR which will get weekend overnight service first?

To correct what was posted above, the overnight service is only available on Sunday-Thursday overnights. Because of the way the driver crewing is done the overnight crews report for work beginning at 1AM Monday-Friday thus the service day actually starts at 1AM on each weekday. To the general public it is Sunday-Thursday overnight service. 

There is no 24 hour weekend service on any of routes 1, 3, 7, 19 so I am not sure how Transit Toronto came to that conclusion. Perhaps confusion on what the service days actually are.

On 5/2/2019 at 12:09 AM, Gil said:

I was just using Tuesday to Saturday as a way of clarifying the overnight service.  Obviously a “service day” would straddle midnight.  Similar to a TTC Day Pass being valid until the start of service the following morning.  There unfortunately is no disclaimer with the overnight service without actually consulting the schedules that 3 of the 4 routes only operates on “weekdays”, with limited weekend service on the remaining route.  Quite the timid/cautious first foray into overnight service.  How long will they be evaluating it before expanding the service?

It is true that the schedules could be better communicated to reflect how overnight service actually runs. It may appear like a cautious foray but another way of looking at it is they took routes that already had long service spans and simply filled the small gap between with additional trips to get 24 hour service. For example, route 1 only required 4.5 hours of additional service time (1.5 hours for each of the 3 buses). 

If there's one thing that I would offer an opinion on, it's that they should have picked the 26 rather than the 3 given the proximity to Dundas, and the fact that the 26 would serve City Centre as well as the South Common area.

As for expansion, I think route 13 would probably be a logical route to add to overnight service (north/south route connecting Clarkson, Erin Mills, Meadowvale) as well as route 23 (serves 3 GO Stations and Port Credit) and 42 (Malton, service to the industrial areas). 

On 5/2/2019 at 6:21 PM, Gil said:

I don't recall the overnight service being specifically mentioned in the City's budget documents which is why it seemed to come out of nowhere.  Unless it's lumped in with the regular service increases, in which case it's being paid for as an organic extension of service.  We'll have to wait and see where and when overnight service expansion occurs.

When will they start planning for the next 5 years (2021-2025)?  The Budget gives a few hints as to where they want to expand service, but nothing more elaborate. The current 5-year plan is nearly wrapped up. I'd be curious to compare the original plan implementation to what had actually happened.

The city is currently out to tender for a consultant to help develop the next 5 year plan 2021-2025. It is being called 'MiWay Five 2.0'

The city's budget documents over the last several years have never specifically mentioned what service changes would be implemented. It's up to staff to determine how best to use the service hours that are allocated in the budget each year. Between 1999 and 2006, Mississauga Transit did report to general committee each year with a detailed plan of what service changes would be implemented in a given year, these were called 'Transplans'. In 2007 there was the Ridership Growth Strategy proposal which outlined service improvements over a 5 year plan and now we have the MiWay Five which does the same (even if they keep changing their mind as to what will actually happen!)

On 5/6/2019 at 5:13 PM, Gil said:

Given that there wasn’t any mention of overnight service in the Budget documents, could it be that businesses with night shifts offered to help pay for the service to benefit their staff?  It could explain why the 1, 3 and 7 don’t operate on weekends.

There is no financial support being provided by outside parties. Of course, there is the possibility both riders and businesses were requesting overnight service and MiWay decided to implement some overnight service.

[Ed T.]

6 hours ago, Silly Tilley said:

As for expansion, I think route 13 would probably be a logical route to add to overnight service (north/south route connecting Clarkson, Erin Mills, Meadowvale) as well as route 23 (serves 3 GO Stations and Port Credit) and 42 (Malton, service to the industrial areas).

23 also meets two 24 hour TTC routes, 501 Queen and 315 Evans. (I don't know enough about MiWay to comment on other connection points to 24 hour TTC service.)

[meltingtomato]

8 hours ago, Ed T. said:

23 also meets two 24 hour TTC routes, 501 Queen and 315 Evans. (I don't know enough about MiWay to comment on other connection points to 24 hour TTC service.)

The 1 & 3 meet the 300, 315, and 337 at Islington Station; the 7 meets the 300, 332, and 352 at Pearson Airport.

[mikenoza]

With the new Yukon Striker ride, plus many users going to Canada's Wonderland would MiWay ever reconsider bringing back the 88 Wonderland bus? 

In 2015 it was discontinued due to high operating costs and low weekday demand during the fall season.

Maybe a split deal between the park and MiWay would work no? Maybe it would be better than the special fare they had before.

[Gil]

On 5/19/2019 at 9:15 AM, Silly Tilley said:

If there's one thing that I would offer an opinion on, it's that they should have picked the 26 rather than the 3 given the proximity to Dundas, and the fact that the 26 would serve City Centre as well as the South Common area.

As for expansion, I think route 13 would probably be a logical route to add to overnight service (north/south route connecting Clarkson, Erin Mills, Meadowvale) as well as route 23 (serves 3 GO Stations and Port Credit) and 42 (Malton, service to the industrial areas). 

The city is currently out to tender for a consultant to help develop the next 5 year plan 2021-2025. It is being called 'MiWay Five 2.0'

This may be purely anecdotal, but I think the demographics along Bloor (which were probably factored in when they made the decision to offer the service) won out over Burnhamthorpe despite the distance from Dundas.  Aside from the industrial area on the south side of Burnhamthorpe between Mavis and the CP Rail corridor, there isn't much in terms of trip generators along the route aside from City Centre. 

Would MiWay bear any liability or responsibility for having a terminal like South Common open overnight?  City Centre is one thing as it's a stand-along terminal.  Having one at a mall may be trickier in terms of accessing facilities for the drivers to use.

I've said it before but probably a modified version of the 13 GLEN ERIN/48 ERIN MILLS or a GLEN ERIN/ERIN MILLS hybrid to try and serve some overnight trip generators like the Erin Mills station with connections to the GO Route 40, Credit Valley Hospital and possibly some of the industrial areas at the north end of Erin Mills.  I don't honestly know how much overnight shift work takes place in that industrial area.  Say if the route left Meadowvale, went down Millcreek, then south on Erin Mills via Credit Valley Hospital and the Transitway station.  I don't know how the residents on Glen Erin would feel about having overnight service, but I guess that's what consultations are for.

Adding 5 DIXIE and 39 BRITANNIA would also help create a basic grid for overnight service.

On 5/20/2019 at 1:10 AM, mikenoza said:

With the new Yukon Striker ride, plus many users going to Canada's Wonderland would MiWay ever reconsider bringing back the 88 Wonderland bus? 

In 2015 it was discontinued due to high operating costs and low weekday demand during the fall season.

Maybe a split deal between the park and MiWay would work no? Maybe it would be better than the special fare they had before.

Wonderland adds a new ride every year.  Despite all of the superlatives attached to the Yukon Striker I doubt it'd convince MiWay to resume service.  Even Brampton Transit eventually discontinued their service.  Passengers were told to migrate to GO Transit or connecting BT/Züm routes to get to Wonderland.  Meanwhile, YRT is shifting their focus from Wonderland to the new Mackenzie Vaughan Hospital across the street with a new transit terminal once it's completed.

If it were simply a matter of cost (or needing a substantial subsidy to operate) they would have only provided the service when it was profitable.  I can imagine the deadheading costs involved between fuel, the driver and the 407 tolls would require the premium fare just to keep the service viable.  There's only so much you can push the fare before it becomes a deterrent to passengers.  I don't think it would be something that could be easily accommodated with PRESTO either.

[meltingtomato]

12 hours ago, Gil said:

I've said it before but probably a modified version of the 13 GLEN ERIN/48 ERIN MILLS or a GLEN ERIN/ERIN MILLS hybrid to try and serve some overnight trip generators like the Erin Mills station with connections to the GO Route 40, Credit Valley Hospital and possibly some of the industrial areas at the north end of Erin Mills.

The 40 does not serve Erin Mills Transitway Station, so unless GO transit decided to run service there (unlikely, as the 40 is more of an express bus vs the 47), this really wouldn't be much of a benefit.

[Gil]

 

The 40 does not serve Erin Mills Transitway Station, so unless GO transit decided to run service there (unlikely, as the 40 is more of an express bus vs the 47), this really wouldn't be much of a benefit.

Ideally, there'd be some consistency with which Transitway stations are served by GO Transit. The 40 is, so far GO's only 24-hour route, which could supplement MiWay's nascent service albeit at a premium. 

[MiExpress]

On 5/20/2019 at 1:10 AM, mikenoza said:

With the new Yukon Striker ride, plus many users going to Canada's Wonderland would MiWay ever reconsider bringing back the 88 Wonderland bus? 

In 2015 it was discontinued due to high operating costs and low weekday demand during the fall season.

Maybe a split deal between the park and MiWay would work no? Maybe it would be better than the special fare they had before.

 

On 5/24/2019 at 12:50 AM, Gil said:

Wonderland adds a new ride every year.  Despite all of the superlatives attached to the Yukon Striker I doubt it'd convince MiWay to resume service.  Even Brampton Transit eventually discontinued their service.  Passengers were told to migrate to GO Transit or connecting BT/Züm routes to get to Wonderland.  Meanwhile, YRT is shifting their focus from Wonderland to the new Mackenzie Vaughan Hospital across the street with a new transit terminal once it's completed.

If it were simply a matter of cost (or needing a substantial subsidy to operate) they would have only provided the service when it was profitable.  I can imagine the deadheading costs involved between fuel, the driver and the 407 tolls would require the premium fare just to keep the service viable.  There's only so much you can push the fare before it becomes a deterrent to passengers.  I don't think it would be something that could be easily accommodated with PRESTO either.

I think the evolution of ridesharing (Uber, Lyft) and the TTC Subway extension to Vaughan really put the final nails in the coffin for any service to Canada's Wonderland by transit systems outside of York Region. Even GO Transit's route 60 Wonderland bus has been discontinued as of this year. Therefore the best option transit wise seems to be GO's Highway 407 east or west bus to Highway 407 Station and transferring to YRT route 20.

As for the MiWay 88, it did have a high cost of operation and aside from that, the infrequent schedule and premium fare didn't help. You almost had to plan your day around the bus schedule and even at the $10 individual,  $30 family rate for a group of 4 it was a steep price, plus regular fare if they had to take MiWay to City Centre to catch the 88. Meanwhile a Uber or Lyft from most areas of Mississauga to Wonderland is in the $40-50 range and if split between 3 or 4 people works out to almost the same cost per person as taking transit did. There's no need to plan around a bus schedule, you can go when you want and it's much faster. For families with kids it also takes out the hassle of using transit completely.

The TTC subway extension to Vaughan makes the transfer to YRT route 20 a lot more convenient and there's also YRT route 760 from Finch.

 

On 5/24/2019 at 7:00 PM, Gil said:

Ideally, there'd be some consistency with which Transitway stations are served by GO Transit. The 40 is, so far GO's only 24-hour route, which could supplement MiWay's nascent service albeit at a premium. 

I have always felt that having GO buses serve all transitway stations would greatly improve accessibility to GO services without riders having to go to Square One and in some cases backtracking to get there.

[MiExpress]

There will be some changes to Malton routes effective July 1.

Route 11 will have it's branch variants (11A, 11B) eliminated and will use Dundas in both directions to/from Islington.

Route 30 will have peak service added so service will run all day Monday-Saturday. The route will also be extended east to Rexdale/Islington. With this change, route 12 will be eliminated.

[Gil]

1 hour ago, Silly Tilley said:

There will be some changes to Malton routes effective July 1.

Route 11 will have it's branch variants (11A, 11B) eliminated and will use Dundas in both directions to/from Islington.

Route 30 will have peak service added so service will run all day Monday-Saturday. The route will also be extended east to Rexdale/Islington. With this change, route 12 will be eliminated.

Are we sure about these details?  Otherwise this is another one of those out of left field changes that wasn’t mentioned (possibly overlooked) as there was no mention of what would become of the 12 REXDALE.  The MiWay5 plan mentions a restructured 16 MALTON resulting in the elimination of the 30 WOODBINE.  It was suggested a few years back, I’d have to go back to the original schedule of changes over the 5-year span of the Plan.

There are a handful of routes that don’t make it into the 2020 Service Changes list and are missing from the 2020 Map with no mention that they will e eliminated.

[meltingtomato]

2 hours ago, Silly Tilley said:

There will be some changes to Malton routes effective July 1.

Route 11 will have it's branch variants (11A, 11B) eliminated and will use Dundas in both directions to/from Islington.

Route 30 will have peak service added so service will run all day Monday-Saturday. The route will also be extended east to Rexdale/Islington. With this change, route 12 will be eliminated.

This is literally awesome for me if this is confirmed. 12 Rexdale was originally on the chopping block with the MiWay 5 plans before disappearing from the list.

[TransferCutter]

Rt 12 cancelled and Rt 30 extended - confirmed

[meltingtomato]

11 minutes ago, TransferCutter said:

Rt 12 cancelled and Rt 30 extended - confirmed

Much appreciated.

[Gil]

On 5/31/2019 at 4:42 PM, TransferCutter said:

Rt 12 cancelled and Rt 30 extended - confirmed

Did this come about from public feedback when they had their consultation sessions last fall or did they realize that some of their plans weren't as well-thought out as they seemed?  They've been slowly getting rid of rush hour routes by either upgrading them to all-day service (as with the 57 COURTNEYPARK) or scrapping them altogether (take your pick).  There are still a few of their proposals which seem short-sighted in the name of connectivity to the Transitway.  Guess I'll just have to wait a few more days to see if there are any other goodies when the July 1 Service Changes are announced.

Meanwhile, the success of Jurassic Park West at Celebration Square has me wondering how feasible it is to add extra trips after the games wrap up for key routes that have already finished service?  Especially if the games happen to land on a weekend, and moreso since the next two will be played on the west coast with the requisite time difference.  Initial reports had Sunday's Game 2 attendance at 25,000 which is 25% more than Game 1's 20,000 attendance.  Getting that many people out of the area must have been a pain with all of the traffic from people driving in.  MiWay was tweeting using transit to get to Celebration Square, but getting back may have been problematic, especially if they had gone into overtime.

Seeing as there's more room at Celebration Square than the actual Jurassic Park crowds will only get bigger the further into the finals we get.  (If we go all the way to Game 7 they may need to just project the game onto City Hall!)  I'm thinking of service usually seen on Canada Day after the fireworks have wrapped up.

[mikenoza]

17 hours ago, Gil said:

Did this come about from public feedback when they had their consultation sessions last fall or did they realize that some of their plans weren't as well-thought out as they seemed?  They've been slowly getting rid of rush hour routes by either upgrading them to all-day service (as with the 57 COURTNEYPARK) or scrapping them altogether (take your pick).  There are still a few of their proposals which seem short-sighted in the name of connectivity to the Transitway.  Guess I'll just have to wait a few more days to see if there are any other goodies when the July 1 Service Changes are announced.

Meanwhile, the success of Jurassic Park West at Celebration Square has me wondering how feasible it is to add extra trips after the games wrap up for key routes that have already finished service?  Especially if the games happen to land on a weekend, and moreso since the next two will be played on the west coast with the requisite time difference.  Initial reports had Sunday's Game 2 attendance at 25,000 which is 25% more than Game 1's 20,000 attendance.  Getting that many people out of the area must have been a pain with all of the traffic from people driving in.  MiWay was tweeting using transit to get to Celebration Square, but getting back may have been problematic, especially if they had gone into overtime.

Seeing as there's more room at Celebration Square than the actual Jurassic Park crowds will only get bigger the further into the finals we get.  (If we go all the way to Game 7 they may need to just project the game onto City Hall!)  I'm thinking of service usually seen on Canada Day after the fireworks have wrapped up.

Agreed. I went to the game at Celebration Square on a Sunday night and getting home by transit was a pain. I only had one option of taking GO plus a cab because the bus was late. 

In other news what is the status of 1738 and 1796?

[Doppelkupplung]

Wasn’t 1738 retired/written off?