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Orion VIII

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On 10/2/2017 at 1:53 PM, TheAverageJoe said:

Where have you been? MiWay has had artics since

No, You missed the point, Miway had a total of (21 D60s + 45 D60LFs = 66 total). Minus the D60s was just 45 D60LFs (Both were replaced by 35 D60LFRs & 10 XD60s). Now they are getting new artics which is more than 21 artics I assume. So you see between 2005-2017 MiWay had less artics back then. Now they are getting more to make up for the artic decrease from 2005.

I said 'SOME ARTICS' not all artics. if you didn't read that clearly.

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2 hours ago, TheAverageJoe said:

Where have you been? MiWay has had artics since

Oh yes, the 22 2010 MiExpress D60LFRs I forgot about those! If MiExpress really counts.

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On 9/30/2017 at 3:26 AM, noahrp24 said:

The back is all side facing seats. I presume MiWay is trying to encourage people to move all the way to the back now. 

This bus has the Voith D864.6 transmission along with the Cummins L9 engine. 

The sideways seats really suck. If you have seen what the rear looks like on the local Orion VII then you know what I'm talking about

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51 minutes ago, FlyerLFR said:

The sideways seats really suck. If you have seen what the rear looks like on the local Orion VII then you know what I'm talking about

They suck comfortwise, but if you break it down, it's a smart move on both Nova's end to offer it and MiWay's end to choose it. Time and time again you see buses going "doors closed" even though the rear platform is pretty much empty because someone is too scared that they'll miss their stop, and decide to stand in front of the steps. It a smart way of making the rear bit of the bus more of an open-air area to encourage moving back. IMO the best option is a 3 door layout like you can find on the Mercedes Citaro, MAN Lion's city/ Solaris because those buses are essentially 100% low floor (with 3 door configuration) with a small incline over the driving axle in the rear. Unfortunately no one offers that here in North America, partly because everybody freaks out about fare evasion, but there's also a fair bit of clever engineering involved. The only NA operators I know to have that 3 door configuration are AC Transit in California with their VanHool AG/A330s, which then again, is also a European bus. 

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On 10/2/2017 at 2:06 PM, ONQCBusFan said:

Miway had a total of (21 D60s + 45 D60LFs = 66 total). Minus the D60s was just 45 D60LFs (Both were replaced by 35 D60LFRs & 10 XD60s). Now that they are getting new artics which is more than 21 artics I assume. So you see between 2005-2017 MiWay had less artics back then. Now they are getting more to make up for the artic decrease from 2005.

You do realize that those D60s were replaced by a chunk of the 2005 D40LF order right. They didn't just retire and not get replaced... It was decided at the time they would get more 40's instead.(posted on page 313). These 30 Nova artics are for replacements (it was mentioned in older posts that we are getting approx 30 units.)

 

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13 minutes ago, noahrp24 said:

You do realize that those D60s were replaced by a chunk of the 2005 D40LF order right. They didn't just retire and not get replaced... It was decided at the time they would get more 40's instead.(posted on page 313). These 30 Nova artics are for expansion. (it was mentioned in older posts that we are getting approx 30 units.)

 

I see, It was like the TTC with the 90 articulated Orion-Ikaruses being replaced with 135 40ft Orion V back in 1996-2000. Well at least TTC now has Nova LFS Artics and so will MiWay!

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3 hours ago, FlyerLFR said:

The sideways seats really suck. If you have seen what the rear looks like on the local Orion VII then you know what I'm talking about

Nope, because the local Orion VIIs have forward facing seats in the rear....

2 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

They suck comfortwise, but if you break it down, it's a smart move on both Nova's end to offer it and MiWay's end to choose it. Time and time again you see buses going "doors closed" even though the rear platform is pretty much empty because someone is too scared that they'll miss their stop, and decide to stand in front of the steps. It a smart way of making the rear bit of the bus more of an open-air area to encourage moving back. IMO the best option is a 3 door layout like you can find on the Mercedes Citaro, MAN Lion's city/ Solaris because those buses are essentially 100% low floor (with 3 door configuration) with a small incline over the driving axle in the rear. Unfortunately no one offers that here in North America, partly because everybody freaks out about fare evasion, but there's also a fair bit of clever engineering involved. The only NA operators I know to have that 3 door configuration are AC Transit in California with their VanHool AG/A330s, which then again, is also a European bus. 

If MiWay wanted the sideways facing seats on any other bus order they got they could have, so it's surprising they want with sideways seats this time. 

There were also some Orion VIs built in 3 door configuration. Both the Orion VI and early Nova LFS also had that full low floor configuration you talk about, it was not well received as some of the design elements needed to make it work (axles, engine placement) were expensive to purchase replacements for and/or made maintenance a lot more difficult. 

16 minutes ago, noahrp24 said:

You do realize that those D60s were replaced by a chunk of the 2005 D40LF order right. They didn't just retire and not get replaced... It was decided at the time they would get more 40's instead.(posted on page 313). These 30 Nova artics are for expansion. (it was mentioned in older posts that we are getting approx 30 units.)

 

The Nova artics are for replacement of existing 40' buses, not expansion. The order as is right now stands at 51 40' buses and 29 60' buses, all in Milocal scheme.

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1 minute ago, Silly Tilley said:

The Nova artics are for replacement of existing 40' buses, not expansion. The order as is right now stands at 51 40' buses and 29 60' buses, all in Milocal scheme.

So 1 40ft and 1 60ft was cut from the order?

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19 hours ago, ONQCBusFan said:

No, You missed the point, Miway had a total of (21 D60s + 45 D60LFs = 66 total). Minus the D60s was just 45 D60LFs (Both were replaced by 35 D60LFRs & 10 XD60s). Now that they are getting new artics which is more than 21 artics I assume. So you see between 2005-2017 MiWay had less artics back then. Now they are getting more to make up for the artic decrease from 2005.

I said "SOME ARTICS' not all artics. if you didn't read that clearly.

No you need to be clear on your original post

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14 hours ago, Silly Tilley said:

There were also some Orion VIs built in 3 door configuration. Both the Orion VI and early Nova LFS also had that full low floor configuration you talk about, it was not well received as some of the design elements needed to make it work (axles, engine placement) were expensive to purchase replacements for and/or made maintenance a lot more difficult. 

AFAIK, there were a few Orion VI prototypes/demonstrators built with three doors, but none was ordered by any transit system.  However, numerous transit systems did order the Orion VI with the exit doors at the very rear, including Mississauga Transit.

http://www.ttmg.org/photos/contributors/collection/NYCB_Orion_HEV-Demo.jpg

https://cptdb.ca/wiki/images/b/bc/Orion_Bus_Industries_6001-a.jpg

http://www.barp.ca/bus/ontario/oc-transpo/orion6.jpg

MT9819.jpg

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2 hours ago, tomsbuspage said:

AFAIK, there were a few Orion VI prototypes/demonstrators built with three doors, but none was ordered by any transit system.  However, numerous transit systems did order the Orion VI with the exit doors at the very rear, including Mississauga Transit.

http://www.ttmg.org/photos/contributors/collection/NYCB_Orion_HEV-Demo.jpg

https://cptdb.ca/wiki/images/b/bc/Orion_Bus_Industries_6001-a.jpg

http://www.barp.ca/bus/ontario/oc-transpo/orion6.jpg

MT9819.jpg

There was a order of 3 door Orion VIs that were built for the Copper Mountain Resort Transit Service in Colorado in 1998. Photos of these buses are hard to come across, but here's one that does show the 3 door configuration. http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-bus-letting-off-skiers-and-snowboarders-in-copper-mountain-colorado-583026.html

AC Transit in Oakland also came close to ordering 3 door Orion VIs, but it was cancelled and the order was built by NABI instead.

bus-letting-off-skiers-and-snowboarders-in-copper-mountain-colorado-A8E572.jpg

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5 hours ago, Silly Tilley said:

There was a order of 3 door Orion VIs that were built for the Copper Mountain Resort Transit Service in Colorado in 1998. Photos of these buses are hard to come across, but here's one that does show the 3 door configuration. http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-bus-letting-off-skiers-and-snowboarders-in-copper-mountain-colorado-583026.html

AC Transit in Oakland also came close to ordering 3 door Orion VIs, but it was cancelled and the order was built by NABI instead.

bus-letting-off-skiers-and-snowboarders-in-copper-mountain-colorado-A8E572.jpg

Here's another photo of a three door VI in case anyone wants to see it:

 

D5ADB653-CD26-49FD-A9B6-A77B18D9EE27.jpeg

I don't know why you'd need three doors, plus it looks kind of ugly with two back wheels on one side. I'd rather take a rear door that is farther away, than a three door one.

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43 minutes ago, OCTranspo/STO Fan said:

Here's another photo of a three door VI in case anyone wants to see it:

 

D5ADB653-CD26-49FD-A9B6-A77B18D9EE27.jpeg

I don't know why you'd need three doors, plus it looks kind of ugly with two back wheels on one side. I'd rather take a rear door that is farther away, than a three door one.

It's relatively common in Europe for 12-metre buses to have 3 doors, and articulated 18-metre units to have 4 doors. Plenty of pictures of Van Hools and other European models with 3 or 4 doors. In terms of the benefits, more doors means faster loading/unloading. There's less of a benefit in North America to having more than 2 doors since the vast majority of buses operate on a Pay As You Enter system.

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9 minutes ago, Articulated said:

It's relatively common in Europe for 12-metre buses to have 3 doors, and articulated 18-metre units to have 4 doors. Plenty of pictures of Van Hools and other European models with 3 or 4 doors. In terms of the benefits, more doors means faster loading/unloading. There's less of a benefit in North America to having more than 2 doors since the vast majority of buses operate on a Pay As You Enter system.

I see why they would do that in Europe, but they don't really have a big benefit here. It's less of a benefit here than it is in Europe.

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52 minutes ago, OCTranspo/STO Fan said:

I see why they would do that in Europe, but they don't really have a big benefit here. It's less of a benefit here than it is in Europe.

To be honest you could benefit from doing that here, the same way you can board some TTC buses from the rear doors if you have presto, or even the streetcar for example. The main benefit with 3 door boarding is quicker de/boarding. People will bring up fare evasion, but all you need to do is just increase the number of fare inspectors, like the TTC does on its streetcars for example. However, like I said, no manufacturer will offer that here. Also @Silly Tilley, I never heard about a 3 door LFS configuration...you have any pics?

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1 hour ago, MiWay0310 said:

To be honest you could benefit from doing that here, the same way you can board some TTC buses from the rear doors if you have presto, or even the streetcar for example. The main benefit with 3 door boarding is quicker de/boarding. People will bring up fare evasion, but all you need to do is just increase the number of fare inspectors, like the TTC does on its streetcars for example. However, like I said, no manufacturer will offer that here. Also @Silly Tilley, I never heard about a 3 door LFS configuration...you have any pics?

 Delete.

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Just now, OCTranspo/STO Fan said:

I've never even seen a three door VI until two hours ago. I wonder what a three door LFS looks like.

It sure looks odd, especially with those twin rear axles. Can't imagine an LFS like that either. Wouldn't look natural at all.

Does anyone know where the '98 Orion VI's we had were based out of? 

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On 02/10/2017 at 7:53 PM, Silly Tilley said:

There were also some Orion VIs built in 3 door configuration. Both the Orion VI and early Nova LFS also had that full low floor configuration you talk about, it was not well received as some of the design elements needed to make it work (axles, engine placement) were expensive to purchase replacements for and/or made maintenance a lot more difficult. 

Come on guys, where did he say 3 door LFS? 

1 hour ago, OCTranspo/STO Fan said:

 A 3 door LFS? I'm pretty sure it was a prototype or something.

 

24 minutes ago, MiWay0310 said:

Me too.  At least the Orion VI you can understand since it was 100% low floor. 

 

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I apologize in advance if this has been asked before or if I'm posting this in the wrong forum, but is there any reason Miway doesn't wrap 0801-0844 series buses? I've seen pretty much every other series wrapped at some point...03s, 05s, 07s, 0851-0885, 0901-0925, even 0611 from Malton. Pretty sure most of 0901-0925 have been wrapped at some point in their lifetime, but I've never seen any of 0801-0844 wrapped, ever.

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8 hours ago, Nicomadrid said:

I apologize in advance if this has been asked before or if I'm posting this in the wrong forum, but is there any reason Miway doesn't wrap 0801-0844 series buses? I've seen pretty much every other series wrapped at some point...03s, 05s, 07s, 0851-0885, 0901-0925, even 0611 from Malton. Pretty sure most of 0901-0925 have been wrapped at some point in their lifetime, but I've never seen any of 0801-0844 wrapped, ever.

I remember they tried putting banners on the 08's/09's and the 08 D60LFR's, but they couldn't adhere (or stick) properly. At that point, they were trying to do the same thing with the MiLocal XD40s and they gave up as it was damaging the side panels towards the bottom portion of the bus. "Skirts" I think is the proper term.

There may be one 08 that's fully wrapped. Mind you, the 09's are..well, 2008's and some of them are wrapped. Some 08 D60LFR's have had wraps before.

Lastly, none of those buses have ad racks. The 06's/07's do which is why they do get side banners.  The 03's/05's do which is why they get side banners too and wraps. It wouldn't surprise me that if some of the 05's are retired due to the major LFS order that perhaps some of those 08/09's D40LFR's are given another attempt at receiving side ad banners, same for the D60LFR's. Look at Brampton. With their Novas and some of their XD40's, the banners (some of them) are narrow to fit in that space without sticking to the grey skirts. Miway can look at that possibly.

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