MiWay

[Gil]

7 minutes ago, noahrp24 said:

This kinda goes for everyone but can we post sightings of whatever bus on whatever route or any breakdowns, etc in the daily sightings forum instead and leave this forum for actual news?

Believe it or not there is a Mississauga Transit Sightings thread in that section that hasn't seen a post in nearly 3 years!  The fact that it hasn't been renamed to MiWay goes to show how seldom it's been used, at least recently.

[noahrp24]

36 minutes ago, Gil said:

Believe it or not there is a Mississauga Transit Sightings thread in that section that hasn't seen a post in nearly 3 years!  The fact that it hasn't been renamed to MiWay goes to show how seldom it's been used, at least recently.

I am aware of the Mississauga Transit Sightings thread but since it wasn't used for a long time, I thought I'd get complaints for bumping an old thread..

[Gil]

24 minutes ago, noahrp24 said:

I am aware of the Mississauga Transit Sightings thread but since it wasn't used for a long time, I thought I'd get complaints for bumping an old thread..

The two of us might have known about it, but based on the inactivity, I doubt many here did as it had gotten buried by other thread. It's relevant to what's going on in this thread right now so I doubt you'd get any hassles for bumping an "old thread" which is to say it should be more active than it currently is.

[mikenoza]

9 minutes ago, noahrp24 said:

I am aware of the Mississauga Transit Sightings thread but since it wasn't used for a long time, I thought I'd get complaints for bumping an old thread..

I find it better having news about new buses on routes on this chat board, breakdowns, seems interesting to hear. We can also learn on updates on any of the buses to see if they've been taken out of service, etc. The Sightings board would usually be meant for random pictures of MiWay buses. This is just my opinion.

[Doppelkupplung]

9 hours ago, mikenoza said:

I find it better having news about new buses on routes on this chat board, breakdowns, seems interesting to hear. We can also learn on updates on any of the buses to see if they've been taken out of service, etc. The Sightings board would usually be meant for random pictures of MiWay buses. This is just my opinion.

No, I think it's a good idea that Noah brings that thread back up because it gets a bit boring after a while hearing about which colour bus was on the wrong route and which bus broke down etc. I think we all understand there are going to be sightings like this at least until the end of next year when all the new 107 buses are in service, so its not going to be anything new when we see 1210 on the 8 or something like that. 

I think you can really boil it down to the fact that nobody benefits from these sightings. I stopped doing that a while ago because I thought it was redundant (my post of 1702 on the 97 earlier I think is valid IMO because it was a question about the route with evidence to back up). 

[MT0603]

Alright, so a member here wanted to address the 'neighbourhood tour' service design of the 101 Dundas Express between UTM and South Common.

So at first let's try to understand why the 101 is designed the way it is. Prior to the 101 running in its current form, there used to be two rush hour express services running along Dundas:

The 101 which ran to Vega (originally Oakville Uptown Terminal) via UTM and;

The 201 which ran from South Common, to Dundas via a stop at South Millway/Fifth Line. 

Both services ran every 20 minutes and harmonized along the common portion of Dundas to provide a 10 minute frequency. 

In March 2013 as part of a service increase along Dundas, the 101 became the sole express route along the corridor. The 101 was turned into two branches, with the main branch running to South Common via the 201's routing west of Mississauga Road. Service along the original 101 to Vega became the 101A branch and midday service was added to the 101 branch only. 

MiWay wanted to preserve service levels along the 201's route west of Mississauga Road and at the same time desired to increase capacity between South Common and UTM. So that's how we ended up with the 101's current arrangement in the west. 

Only problem is because of the 101's routing and the additional time it takes between SC and UTM, it doesn't do a good job relieving the pressure. When I was at UTM most people only hopped on the 101 if they absolutely had to, otherwise the 1C and 110 was the preferred choice. In fact, for someone travelling to/from SC to save time on the 101 vs the 1C, they have to be traveling to/from Dixie at least in order to realize any savings due to the 101's circuitous routing. 

Now I agree that the routing has to go and my preference is a complete rebuild of how both of the Dundas routes operate in the west. It would be my preferred alternative to end branched service on both the 1* and 101. *Branched service on the 1 would only operate when the 101 is not operating, so during the late evening/night period.

The 1 would operate to South Common via the 1C's current routing at all times and a new late evening/night 1A branch would provide service along Dundas to Vega west of Mississauga Road when the 101 is not operating. 

The 101 would always operate to Vega via UTM all day everyday, with no late evening service. West of Erindale Station Road the 101 would serve all stops, effectively taking over for the 1.

Currently during rush hours each branch is served by two routes, express service running every 20 minutes and local service running every 24 minutes. Meaning a potential max wait time of 20 minutes. 

Under this proposal both branches would have much lower max wait times due to the elimination of branched express/local service. Rush hour max wait times brought down to 10 minutes on the Vega branch and 12 minutes on the South Common branch. 

Tradeoffs as part of this proposal include:

loss of express service from SC and South Millway/Fifth Line;

loss of access to local stops east of ESR/Glengarry for those coming from west of Mississauga Road when the 101 is operating;

Severely reduced max wait times along each branch during the rush hours, resulting in much better service;

Slightly less overall service from South Common during off peaks;

Increased service to Vega during the off peaks;

All service to/from Vega now operates via UTM with the 101 resulting in an increase in travel time when compared to the 1. 

Advantages:

Loads would be evened out due to the elimination of branched service* on the two lines;

MiWay would have more operational flexibility in events where a bus needs to be short turned. Currently because of branched service, short turning a bus during the rush hour causes a minimum 40 minute gap (44 minutes on the local) on the branch of the short turned bus. 

With this proposal the 101 would become the main offering 7 days a week, local service levels on weekends would be transferred to the 101 with the local 1 becoming the secondary option as it has become during the week.

Weekday service levels would remain as is. 

Saturday base service would become:

101, every 12 minutes with 10 buses;

1, every 20 minutes wit 7 buses;

+1 bus total vs current levels. 

Sunday base service would become:

101, every 15 minutes with 8 buses;

1, every 23 minutes with 6 buses;

+6 buses total vs current levels. 

 

Thoughts? 

[Doppelkupplung]

5 hours ago, MT0603 said:

Alright, so a member here wanted to address the 'neighbourhood tour' service design of the 101 Dundas Express between UTM and South Common.

So at first let's try to understand why the 101 is designed the way it is. Prior to the 101 running in its current form, there used to be two rush hour express services running along Dundas:

The 101 which ran to Vega (originally Oakville Uptown Terminal) via UTM and;

The 201 which ran from South Common, to Dundas via a stop at South Millway/Fifth Line. 

Both services ran every 20 minutes and harmonized along the common portion of Dundas to provide a 10 minute frequency. 

In March 2013 as part of a service increase along Dundas, the 101 became the sole express route along the corridor. The 101 was turned into two branches, with the main branch running to South Common via the 201's routing west of Mississauga Road. Service along the original 101 to Vega became the 101A branch and midday service was added to the 101 branch only. 

MiWay wanted to preserve service levels along the 201's route west of Mississauga Road and at the same time desired to increase capacity between South Common and UTM. So that's how we ended up with the 101's current arrangement in the west. 

Only problem is because of the 101's routing and the additional time it takes between SC and UTM, it doesn't do a good job relieving the pressure. When I was at UTM most people only hopped on the 101 if they absolutely had to, otherwise the 1C and 110 was the preferred choice. In fact, for someone travelling to/from SC to save time on the 101 vs the 1C, they have to be traveling to/from Dixie at least in order to realize any savings due to the 101's circuitous routing. 

Now I agree that the routing has to go and my preference is a complete rebuild of how both of the Dundas routes operate in the west. It would be my preferred alternative to end branched service on both the 1* and 101. *Branched service on the 1 would only operate when the 101 is not operating, so during the late evening/night period.

The 1 would operate to South Common via the 1C's current routing at all times and a new late evening/night 1A branch would provide service along Dundas to Vega west of Mississauga Road when the 101 is not operating. 

The 101 would always operate to Vega via UTM all day everyday, with no late evening service. West of Erindale Station Road the 101 would serve all stops, effectively taking over for the 1.

Currently during rush hours each branch is served by two routes, express service running every 20 minutes and local service running every 24 minutes. Meaning a potential max wait time of 20 minutes. 

Under this proposal both branches would have much lower max wait times due to the elimination of branched express/local service. Rush hour max wait times brought down to 10 minutes on the Vega branch and 12 minutes on the South Common branch. 

Tradeoffs as part of this proposal include:

loss of express service from SC and South Millway/Fifth Line;

loss of access to local stops east of ESR/Glengarry for those coming from west of Mississauga Road when the 101 is operating;

Severely reduced max wait times along each branch during the rush hours, resulting in much better service;

Slightly less overall service from South Common during off peaks;

Increased service to Vega during the off peaks;

All service to/from Vega now operates via UTM with the 101 resulting in an increase in travel time when compared to the 1. 

Advantages:

Loads would be evened out due to the elimination of branched service* on the two lines;

MiWay would have more operational flexibility in events where a bus needs to be short turned. Currently because of branched service, short turning a bus during the rush hour causes a minimum 40 minute gap (44 minutes on the local) on the branch of the short turned bus. 

With this proposal the 101 would become the main offering 7 days a week, local service levels on weekends would be transferred to the 101 with the local 1 becoming the secondary option as it has become during the week.

Weekday service levels would remain as is. 

Saturday base service would become:

101, every 12 minutes with 10 buses;

1, every 20 minutes wit 7 buses;

+1 bus total vs current levels. 

Sunday base service would become:

101, every 15 minutes with 8 buses;

1, every 23 minutes with 6 buses;

+6 buses total vs current levels. 

 

Thoughts? 

When I brought up the neighbourhood tour idea with the 101, I meant solely the bit leaving South Common all the way to EMP@Dundas. To be it was kind of a no brainer. Why should the 101 have to waste time going on South Millway when they can place a stop by the Husky gas station at EMP and South Millway in both NB and SB directions? It's not a massive issue with walking another 50 meters. Let's break it down: Coming NB from Dundas, instead of having to wait to turn left onto South Millway, having to stop at 2 stop signs, then waiting for the light at the Collegeway, the 101 could go all the way up to Collegeway via EMP, and the same goes for coming SB from South common. The benefits are there too: Buses can go efficently at 70kph on that stretch of EMP, rather than 40 with a bunch of stop signs. There is a safety factor too. There are alot of families with young children in that area. Reducing bus traffic through there is a benefit. I can understand the 13's routing, but to me the 101 edit is a no brainer. I literally see no issues with it. I think you could cut off a solid 2-3 minutes by taking my edit of the routing. Any ideas?

Anyways, all of what I said is only adding more detail to @MT0603'sideas, but I want some thoughts on it as well as his ideas. 

So, just to map it out, here is what you said, slightly abridged (desto version. It took me a solid 10 minutes to figure this out lol, and I still probably got it wrong):

1-Subway to South Common (22h/7d)

1A-Subway to Vega (20.00 onwards (arbitrary time) 7d/wk)

101-Subway to Vega (service ends at 20.00 7  d/wk)

I think that there might be some issues with the 101 WB after ESR (if I analyzed your thinking correctly). First, would you be abandoning express service altogether WB of ESR? I think that may become inefficient due the sheer number of stops there are, just between ESR and EMP (I count 8). Perhaps a 101X slotted in between every 101 (excuse the naming, all I could think of to make it appear "expressy")? Also, doesn't the 1 become super redundant with the 101 making its stops too? WB of ESR is busy, but EB of ESR is waay busier, no? 

I probably mucked it up somewhere, but what do you think?

[MT0603]

4 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

When I brought up the neighbourhood tour idea with the 101, I meant solely the bit leaving South Common all the way to EMP@Dundas. To be it was kind of a no brainer. Why should the 101 have to waste time going on South Millway when they can place a stop by the Husky gas station at EMP and South Millway in both NB and SB directions? It's not a massive issue with walking another 50 meters. Let's break it down: Coming NB from Dundas, instead of having to wait to turn left onto South Millway, having to stop at 2 stop signs, then waiting for the light at the Collegeway, the 101 could go all the way up to Collegeway via EMP, and the same goes for coming SB from South common. The benefits are there too: Buses can go efficently at 70kph on that stretch of EMP, rather than 40 with a bunch of stop signs. There is a safety factor too. There are alot of families with young children in that area. Reducing bus traffic through there is a benefit. I can understand the 13's routing, but to me the 101 edit is a no brainer. I literally see no issues with it. I think you could cut off a solid 2-3 minutes by taking my edit of the routing. Any ideas?

Anyways, all of what I said is only adding more detail to @MT0603'sideas, but I want some thoughts on it as well as his ideas. 

So, just to map it out, here is what you said, slightly abridged (desto version. It took me a solid 10 minutes to figure this out lol, and I still probably got it wrong):

1-Subway to South Common (22h/7d)

1A-Subway to Vega (20.00 onwards (arbitrary time) 7d/wk)

101-Subway to Vega (service ends at 20.00 7  d/wk)

I think that there might be some issues with the 101 WB after ESR (if I analyzed your thinking correctly). First, would you be abandoning express service altogether WB of ESR? I think that may become inefficient due the sheer number of stops there are, just between ESR and EMP (I count 8). Perhaps a 101X slotted in between every 101 (excuse the naming, all I could think of to make it appear "expressy")? Also, doesn't the 1 become super redundant with the 101 making its stops too? WB of ESR is busy, but EB of ESR is waay busier, no? 

I probably mucked it up somewhere, but what do you think?

I should have included this in the original post, for sake of clarity:

101 DUNDAS EXPRESS~ TO VEGA/SUBWAY ~ VIA UTM; Runs express between Islington and ESR, local from ESR westward; 7d/wk; no late night service.

1 DUNDAS ~ TO SOUTH COMMON/SUBWAY ~ VIA UTM; Operates at all times.

1A DUNDAS ~ TO VEGA/SUBWAY; Operates when the 101 doesn't, concurrently with the 1.

The 1 would operate with both branches only in the late evening when the 101 isn't operating.

There would only be a small overlap in local service between the 1 and 101 between Nanticoke (Erindale Park) and ESR/Glengarry for sake of transferring between services. Starting/ending at Nanticoke because for someone coming from the west along Dundas, Nanticoke is their first opportunity to transfer a local service under this scheme should they be destined for a stop between there and ESR or vice versa. This is done to allow for mobility between the routes, not to address capacity concerns in that section. 

For most riders on the 101, it will remain entirely an express service as they know it. Only those venturing west of ESR/Glengarry would experience a bit of the 101 as a local.

As for the stops in that section, there are a fair amount of stops, however the even frequency combined with the low passenger volumes at a lot of these stops would not seriously hamper running times. Although time will be lost to serve UTM, this is part of the tradeoff. In return they are guaranteed a maximum wait time which is half of what is currently offered.

I should also clarify with what I mean by maximum wait time (I also refer to it as 'absolute frequency') because this is a driving rationale behind this service scheme.  So when you have two services operating along a common portion of a route you will often hear about their combined frequency; two 20 minute frequencies combine to a 10 minute combined frequency for example. In the case of an express and local route overlap you will never be able to harmonize the frequencies due to running time differences between time points. Therefor the maximum possible wait time corresponds to the route with the greatest frequency, in this case 20 minutes. So the idea that a combined frequency on an express/local corridor where each service operates at every 20 minutes means a bus will come every 10 minutes is wrong.

Study after study shows that transit riders rate wait times at stops as the number one factor to encourage ridership; they don't like it and want it kept to a minimum.  

 

[Ed T.]

One MiWay op has figured out that the quick way to turn around a 23 at Long Branch is to pull a three-point turn on Lake Shore Blvd. I wonder if this is the official routing?

To add to this, I suspect that the op figured it could be done in a one-shot U turn. Unfortunately the north-side curb was closer than it seemed....

[Doppelkupplung]

1 hour ago, Ed T. said:

One MiWay op has figured out that the quick way to turn around a 23 at Long Branch is to pull a three-point turn on Lake Shore Blvd. I wonder if this is the official routing?

Wow, that's brave. They probably have to have someone chaperoning them no? They don't have cameras (not the end of the world); plus that must be fun with Lakeshore traffic. 

[Ed T.]

14 minutes ago, MiWay0310 said:

Wow, that's brave. They probably have to have someone chaperoning them no? They don't have cameras (not the end of the world); plus that must be fun with Lakeshore traffic. 

No lookout. I was wondering what it was doing sitting in a parking bay on the south side with the left signal going....

I thought a bus could do a U-turn in a street as wide as Lake Shore, but apparently not. (Maybe the op thought it would work, too.) But as it turns out, it's quite a bit narrower than the paved area on the south side of Islington station where they all turn around.

Considering that last week I saw someone get hit while trying to pull a quick U-ie (likely after picking up their burrito), I am guessing that "wye in the middle of the road" is not standard operating procedure.

[Ed T.]

23 buses now seem to be looping somewhere so they come back westbound on Lake Shore rather than southbound on Brown's Line. Both westbound Lake Shore and southbound Brown's Line are backed up because of the blocked westbound lane around the bus loop construction. Maybe it was decided that there's less delay on Lake Shore than Brown's Line?

[Doppelkupplung]

Anyone know what style doors we are getting with the novas (front)? 50/50 or 20/80? 

[ORION]

59 minutes ago, MiWay0310 said:

Anyone know what style doors we are getting with the novas (front)? 50/50 or 20/80? 

They are 50/50. Buses have rear window, LED lights above door mounted on the exterior, as well as narrow rear doors, which are vapor (like new TTC buses). The last window on each side is also sealed and cannot open. The "local" buses have framed windows with black around, like Oakville Transit.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Jan Boic said:

They are 50/50. Buses have rear window, LED lights above door mounted on the exterior, as well as narrow rear doors, which are vapor (like new TTC buses). The last window on each side is also sealed and cannot open. The "local" buses have framed windows with black around, like Oakville Transit.

So MiWay is abandoning flush windows?

[Transit geek]

12 hours ago, Jan Boic said:

They are 50/50. Buses have rear window, LED lights above door mounted on the exterior, as well as narrow rear doors, which are vapor (like new TTC buses). The last window on each side is also sealed and cannot open. The "local" buses have framed windows with black around, like Oakville Transit.

I hope the Trapeze ITS won't be using the cramped Alpha-American LED signs. Surely they can fit the bigger signs used by the TTC LFSes?

[Doppelkupplung]

5 hours ago, FlyerLFR said:

So MiWay is abandoning flush windows?

That's too bad. You would have thought Nova would see that NFI had been delivering flush windows since 2011, and they would offer it too, but I guess not.

Forgive me for asking this, but we are getting all locals from Nova, correct?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MiWay0310 said:

That's too bad. You would have thought Nova would see that NFI had been delivering flush windows since 2011, and they would offer it too, but I guess not.

Forgive me for asking this, but we are getting all locals from Nova, correct?

That's how its supposed to be - all locals from Nova.

They've been getting flush windows since the 2010 Orion VIIs actually.

Also half of my hype for the Nova's just died now that I know MiWay has decided to go the cheap route.

[noahrp24]

1 minute ago, FlyerLFR said:

That's how its supposed to be - all locals from Nova.

They've been getting flush windows since the 2010 Orion VIIs actually.

Also half of my hype for the Nova's just died now that I know MiWay has decided to go the cheap route.

Remember, Nova had to go through a tender and bid for this order. Obviously, a high change of winning a tender is bidding a low price. With that being said, they still must comply with MiWay's specifications noted on the documents in order for their bid to be considered. MiWay must have not specified frameless or framed windows therefore Nova automatically gave them framed windows instead which would be the cheaper option. In my opinion, the framed windows are better because of the amount of rattling it makes when the bus is in motion. A good example would be the 2013 XD60s...

[Doppelkupplung]

1 hour ago, noahrp24 said:

Remember, Nova had to go through a tender and bid for this order. Obviously, a high change of winning a tender is bidding a low price. With that being said, they still must comply with MiWay's specifications noted on the documents in order for their bid to be considered. MiWay must have not specified frameless or framed windows therefore Nova automatically gave them framed windows instead which would be the cheaper option. In my opinion, the framed windows are better because of the amount of rattling it makes when the bus is in motion. A good example would be the 2013 XD60s...

Talk about the 12xx's for window rattling. Although the 2010 60's don't rattle at all and they have frameless windows. I think on an express bus it should be a must have because of the aerodynamic benefits. A lot of express routes spend a good chunk of their time on the highways and so any aero benefits are worthwhile investments, but then again, its the actual manufacturer doing the speccing out not, MiWay...have to remind myself of that....

[MiExpress]

It is MiWay that controls the specification of their buses, just like every other agency that orders buses.

It is true that all previous orders have requested frameless windows. However, frameless windows are a more expensive option upwards of $10,000-$15,000 per bus (sometimes more) as a general range based on length and window material chosen. They are also heavier which reduces fuel efficiency and can cancel out any potential aerodynamic gains. Repair time is also a issue, because frameless windows are bonded to the bus body repair takes much longer as the window panel has to be removed and the new window has to have time to bond, sometimes it can take up to 24 hours for bonding after a repair.

The bids for the local buses came in higher than Mississauga was expecting, and there were some unexpected additional costs after the Nova order was placed due to the way they do their pricing that led to the buses being over budget. Because 50% of the costs of the new buses are being covered by government funding which was approved before the orders were placed, it's possible frameless windows on the local buses may have just been a casualty of trying to stay within budget. After all, 2 buses had to be cut from the Nova order to meet budget.

[Guest]

22 hours ago, Jan Boic said:

They are 50/50. Buses have rear window, LED lights above door mounted on the exterior, as well as narrow rear doors, which are vapor (like new TTC buses). The last window on each side is also sealed and cannot open. The "local" buses have framed windows with black around, like Oakville Transit.

Will the Artics get narrow or wide rear doors? and will they all have framed windows and a rear window?

[Doppelkupplung]

9 minutes ago, ONQCBusFan said:

Will the Artics get narrow or wide rear doors? and will they all have framed windows and a rear window?

They will be getting framed rear windows with black paint around them, as well as a rear window. As for the Artic doors, I would assume they would go with wide doors? All of our 60's have always had wide rear doors, so there's no reason to assume they wouldn't order it, unless of course, they didn't.....

[transitfan100]

5 hours ago, Silly Tilley said:

It is MiWay that controls the specification of their buses, just like every other agency that orders buses.

It is true that all previous orders have requested frameless windows. However, frameless windows are a more expensive option upwards of $10,000-$15,000 per bus (sometimes more) as a general range based on length and window material chosen. They are also heavier which reduces fuel efficiency and can cancel out any potential aerodynamic gains. Repair time is also a issue, because frameless windows are bonded to the bus body repair takes much longer as the window panel has to be removed and the new window has to have time to bond, sometimes it can take up to 24 hours for bonding after a repair.

The bids for the local buses came in higher than Mississauga was expecting, and there were some unexpected additional costs after the Nova order was placed due to the way they do their pricing that led to the buses being over budget. Because 50% of the costs of the new buses are being covered by government funding which was approved before the orders were placed, it's possible frameless windows on the local buses may have just been a casualty of trying to stay within budget. After all, 2 buses had to be cut from the Nova order to meet budget.

So now it means we will have 50 of the standard 40' novas since 2 buses had to be cut off

[AmanKh]

Saw this at Westwood yesterday afternoon...apparently it was a collapsed airbag.

How often does such a thing occur, and is there something external that causes it? Is this a similar occurance to the artic losing a wheel a few weeks ago?