MiWay

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Silly Tilley said:

Please expand on what you mean by "nothing good". If you are trying to compare York Region to MiWay what comparisons do you want to make?

Service frequency, reliability, general sense of competence, professionalness, branding, appearance of facilities, interesting buses, politeness of drivers, etc. you get the point

[Doppelkupplung]

2 hours ago, FlyerLFR said:

Service frequency, reliability, general sense of competence, professionalness, branding, appearance of facilities, interesting buses, politeness of drivers, etc. you get the point

I completely agree with @FlyerLFR. MiWay has to have by far one of the most pathetic services in the GTA. Literally garbage. Now all of you will have to forgive me, but i've been wanting to rant about this system for ages. When I was in high school, I just stopped checking schedules because rarely was there ever a point in doing that. The buses usually show up late, and the 90% of the drivers show little to no urgency to keep the route on schedule. There is also some serious questioning to be done in the actual training and re-training. For example, today I took the 110 from UTM to Clarkson. This driver drove as if there were no passengers on the bus. What I mean to say is he stamped the throttle every couple of seconds, and on a 2010 Express Orion, the buses are jerky as it is, so the constant mashing of the accelerator does not help this issue. And before any of you object, this is NOT like a one time thing. I experience this sort of driving at least a few times a week (and no, not the same driver). On the curves on Collegeway the man is mashing the brakes down to 30 kph which makes no sense since it is a 50 or 60 kph street. Yeah, buses are big, but they aren't going to tip over going up the curves on collegeway, right? Especially with low traffic. On Erin Mills he was doing at best 45kph. The 70 kph speed limit is there for a reason, right? Very few of Miway's drivers show urgency to get their passengers to where they need to be. And this is a consistent issue (I cannot stress that enough). It is so frustrating when these drivers decide to drive slowly, especially when you are trying to get somewhere, catch a connection (and an on time one, God forbid). I once had to go for an interview in Oakville, so I decided to take the bus. It involved a connection with Oakville Transit. Lo and behold, guess who screwed up the trip? I'll let you answer that for yourself.

My other massive irritation with this system is the whole concept of "neighbourhood tours". For example, the 101E leaves South Common, goes to Erin Mills and back to South Millway. All for what? So the "huge" crowd of 2 to no people can get on at Fifth line?. Like seriously? If they are so desperate to serve Fifth line, why can't they at least stop at Erin Mills and South Millway? It's not gonna kill people to walk 50 meters more right? Erin Mills is faster, so use it! It takes 15 minutes realistically with an EXPRESS bus to get from South Common to UTM (Don't question it, I know). And there are waaay more routes I can complain about, but for the sake of not wasting your time, I won't. 

The cleanliness on these buses is appalling. If you find yourself on an 08 60', go to the back and see the dust on top of the wheel wells. Looks like its been there since 2007 when we got them. I GUARANTEE you that you fill find that on every single bus in our fleet (maybe not the 17s just yet). I rarely ever find these buses clean. Newspapers everywhere, gum stuck to the floor, people putting feet up on seats; you get the point. 

I will disagree with @FlyerLFR on one point: Politeness of drivers. While I may find most of them lacking in skill, 95% are very polite and welcoming. They are always willing to help with routing and getting you to your destination. 

With MiWay, you kind of get the sense that the management are sort of people who drive to work and couldn't give 2.......(okay I won't say it) about transit. I live in Mississauga and I worked in downtown Toronto for one year. I took GO every day. That, in my opinion, is the model system of the GTA. Drivers are always on the ball, always on time (some times too on time). The sense of urgency with their drivers is clear and they don't let anything get in their way. Yes, it has a heavy focus on highway use, but there is a clear difference in the training their drivers get and the training MiWay drivers get. Maybe its high time we learned from them. 

Another thing i'd like to add (as I finish the unintentional essay...sorry) is this: We have a forum dedicated to MiWay. Why not discuss actual solutions to these sorts of issues. I know alot of you guys do that indeed, but we should utilize this sort of community, the variety of knowledge we all bring about transit, specifically MiWay, to find fixes to the system, and possibly even propose it to MiWay (idea?) rather than have people losing their minds about when the Novas are arriving and which color bus was on the wrong route and what CX bus was at Malton and endless discussions about fleet shortages etc. 

And before any of you start going on about that damn Transitway, bear in mind that the majority of those parking lots are dead empty. The damn thing is 3 years old now and we only have 4 routes using it (Not including GO)

So, an increase in the cash fare? Yeah, most people use Presto so it doesn't mean much. But as MiWay brings it up, I think it's time for a serious reality check.

[Xtrazsteve]

At least someone agrees the transitway is pathetic. Unlike Ottawa which is overcapacty near the core, Miway has pretty much at 5% of the capacity.

It's more of a show and tell piece of infrastructure than well spent taxpayers project. Same goes for that VIVA rapidway. 

Transit in the 905 isn't going to change overnight even if there were express routes on every major corridor. Those who take transit on the GO isn't going to switch to MiWay/TTC. Good that they are thinking transit but they're too optimistic.

[Ed T.]

On 9/13/2017 at 3:29 PM, TransferCutter said:

Long Branch Loop

Starting Monday September 18

Rt 5 will deadhead both directions from Lakeshore and Ogden to Dixie mall via Lakeshore/Dixie to layover and to turn around at.

Rt 23 will service Long Branch by entering the TTC streetcar loop and drop off/pick up passengers ALL passengers at a temporary bus stop within the loop on the opposite side of the platform from our present stop.  Rt 5 passengers will transfer at Ogden.

If the buses enter/leave via the existing tracks, that's not an easy turn at all. Maybe there will be temporary ramping allowing a shallower turn. The traffic signals on Lake Shore at the Brown's Line ramp won't help to make the turn. Not to mention drivers coming down the ramp to head westbound will be surprised at a bus cutting across their path.

Waiting to see how this works out....

[TransferCutter]

Yesterday there were 2 revisions to the 23 routing.

Regular routing to and from Long Branch.  
Buses will drop off at a temp stop on Lakeshore west of Browns Line.
Buses will deadhead east on Lakeshore, left on 30eth, left on Horner, left on Browns Line and right back onto Lakeshore to normal routing.

Routes 5 and 23 will do transfers at Ogden and the 5 will still deadhead up and down Dixie and Lakeshore out of service to and from Ogden and Lakeshore and Dixie Mall

[Ed T.]

40 minutes ago, TransferCutter said:

Yesterday there were 2 revisions to the 23 routing.

Regular routing to and from Long Branch.  

Buses will drop off at a temp stop on Lakeshore west of Browns Line.

Buses will deadhead east on Lakeshore, left on 13th, left on Horner, left on Browns Line and right back onto Lakeshore to normal routing.

Routes 5 and 23 will do transfers at Ogden and the 5 will still deadhead up and down Dixie and Lakeshore out of service to and from Ogden and Lakeshore and Dixie Mall

That makes more sense. Maybe someone tried to make the turn into the streetcar loop. Or actually went to look at what's there. (The streetcar loop is okay for vehicles entering westbound and leaving eastbound, but very much not okay for entering eastbound and leaving westbound.)

One correction: left on 30th, not 13th. If some bus goes to 13th, it will get lost in both space and time.

[TransferCutter]

My mistake.  It is 30eth.  Sorry and thanks.

[dj.surf.lfs]

MiWay service changes for 2018: https://www7.mississauga.ca/documents/miway/miwayfive/MiWay_5_Fall-2017-PICBoards-WEB.pdf

February:

• 38 Creditview streamlined routing between Meadowvale Business Park and Dundas/Erindale Station
• 42 Derry will travel on Derry Road instead of Old Derry Road. 
• 57 Courtneypark will travel on Old Derry Road instead of Derry Road, and terminate at Renforth Station.
• 61 Mavis all trips extended to Sheridan College
• 142 Derry Express will be introduced, running 7 days a week, with 15-minute peak service.

July: Frequency improvements on 15 Drew, 22 Finch and 23 Lakeshore

September:

• 100 Airport Express will be introduced between Winston Churchill and Pearson Airport Terminal 1 via Transitway, with service every 15 minutes all day every day.
• 101 Dundas Express will have more frequent peak service and new Sunday service

October: 19 Hurontario will be modified due to planned LRT impacts

[Xtrazsteve]

The future 2020 map in the presentation doesn't show the 142 Derry Express. Someone got lazy to make a new map.

[MiExpress]

22 minutes ago, dj.surf.lfs said:

MiWay service changes for 2018: https://www7.mississauga.ca/documents/miway/miwayfive/MiWay_5_Fall-2017-PICBoards-WEB.pdf

February:

• 38 Creditview streamlined routing between Meadowvale Business Park and Dundas/Erindale Station
• 42 Derry will travel on Derry Road instead of Old Derry Road. 
• 57 Courtneypark will travel on Old Derry Road instead of Derry Road, and terminate at Renforth Station.
• 142 Derry Express will be introduced, running 7 days a week, with 15-minute peak service.

July: Frequency improvements on 15 Drew, 22 Finch and 23 Lakeshore

September:

• 100 Airport Express will be introduced between Winston Churchill and Pearson Airport Terminal 1 via Transitway, with service every 15 minutes all day every day.
• 101 Dundas Express will have more frequent peak service and new Sunday service

October: 19 Hurontario will be modified due to planned LRT impacts

Just a note that typically these are not the only service improvements that will take place. There are many other frequency improvements and service added that are not mentioned within the scope of MiWay Five. 

An updated September 2017 map is at https://www7.mississauga.ca/documents/miway/miwayfive/MiWay5-2020-Proposed-Routing.pdf

[Gil]

2 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The future 2020 map in the presentation doesn't show the 142 Derry Express. Someone got lazy to make a new map.

They also show the 109 running along the 427 as rush hour only, which started showing up on their 2020 maps last year.  They also seem to be randomly changing the route colours on the 2020 map.  The 9 RATHBURN-THOMAS is now a third colour similar to the 19.  The 38 CREDITVIEW route is one colour while the route marker at Erindale GO is another.  The 2020 map in the slide deck is also from last year!

With the elimination of the 37 ERINDALE GO and the subsequent removal of the 38 from Bancroft is there room for creating a branch running between Bancroft and Burnhamthorpe via Erindale GO?  It'd maintain service and provide beefed up service along the core of the route serving St. Joseph high school, Roseborough Centre, Erindale GO and the various shops and businesses at Burnhamthorpe.  There's a medical college of some sort there that's a definite passenger generator.

Even if the route only runs one way along Bancroft (clockwise like the 37), if the route ran further east to Mavis or Boyer it would be able to serve Heartland.

Still not a fan of running south on Erindale Station Rd. to get to Westdale in the name of streamlining.  Woodlands is the only passenger generator along that segment, and the school's boundaries go only as far as the 403.  Unless they are trying to cut down on the number of transfers it takes to get to Rathburn, Wolfedale seems more likely to generate ridership throughout the day.

[Guest]

22 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

I completely agree with @FlyerLFR. MiWay has to have by far one of the most pathetic services in the GTA. Literally garbage. Now all of you will have to forgive me, but i've been wanting to rant about this system for ages. When I was in high school, I just stopped checking schedules because rarely was there ever a point in doing that. The buses usually show up late, and the 90% of the drivers show little to no urgency to keep the route on schedule. There is also some serious questioning to be done in the actual training and re-training. For example, today I took the 110 from UTM to Clarkson. This driver drove as if there were no passengers on the bus. What I mean to say is he stamped the throttle every couple of seconds, and on a 2010 Express Orion, the buses are jerky as it is, so the constant mashing of the accelerator does not help this issue. And before any of you object, this is NOT like a one time thing. I experience this sort of driving at least a few times a week (and no, not the same driver). On the curves on Collegeway the man is mashing the brakes down to 30 kph which makes no sense since it is a 50 or 60 kph street. Yeah, buses are big, but they aren't going to tip over going up the curves on collegeway, right? Especially with low traffic. On Erin Mills he was doing at best 45kph. The 70 kph speed limit is there for a reason, right? Very few of Miway's drivers show urgency to get their passengers to where they need to be. And this is a consistent issue (I cannot stress that enough). It is so frustrating when these drivers decide to drive slowly, especially when you are trying to get somewhere, catch a connection (and an on time one, God forbid). I once had to go for an interview in Oakville, so I decided to take the bus. It involved a connection with Oakville Transit. Lo and behold, guess who screwed up the trip? I'll let you answer that for yourself.

My other massive irritation with this system is the whole concept of "neighbourhood tours". For example, the 101E leaves South Common, goes to Erin Mills and back to South Millway. All for what? So the "huge" crowd of 2 to no people can get on at Fifth line?. Like seriously? If they are so desperate to serve Fifth line, why can't they at least stop at Erin Mills and South Millway? It's not gonna kill people to walk 50 meters more right? Erin Mills is faster, so use it! It takes 15 minutes realistically with an EXPRESS bus to get from South Common to UTM (Don't question it, I know). And there are waaay more routes I can complain about, but for the sake of not wasting your time, I won't. 

The cleanliness on these buses is appalling. If you find yourself on an 08 60', go to the back and see the dust on top of the wheel wells. Looks like its been there since 2007 when we got them. I GUARANTEE you that you fill find that on every single bus in our fleet (maybe not the 17s just yet). I rarely ever find these buses clean. Newspapers everywhere, gum stuck to the floor, people putting feet up on seats; you get the point. 

I will disagree with @FlyerLFR on one point: Politeness of drivers. While I may find most of them lacking in skill, 95% are very polite and welcoming. They are always willing to help with routing and getting you to your destination. 

With MiWay, you kind of get the sense that the management are sort of people who drive to work and couldn't give 2.......(okay I won't say it) about transit. I live in Mississauga and I worked in downtown Toronto for one year. I took GO every day. That, in my opinion, is the model system of the GTA. Drivers are always on the ball, always on time (some times too on time). The sense of urgency with their drivers is clear and they don't let anything get in their way. Yes, it has a heavy focus on highway use, but there is a clear difference in the training their drivers get and the training MiWay drivers get. Maybe its high time we learned from them. 

Another thing i'd like to add (as I finish the unintentional essay...sorry) is this: We have a forum dedicated to MiWay. Why not discuss actual solutions to these sorts of issues. I know alot of you guys do that indeed, but we should utilize this sort of community, the variety of knowledge we all bring about transit, specifically MiWay, to find fixes to the system, and possibly even propose it to MiWay (idea?) rather than have people losing their minds about when the Novas are arriving and which color bus was on the wrong route and what CX bus was at Malton and endless discussions about fleet shortages etc. 

And before any of you start going on about that damn Transitway, bear in mind that the majority of those parking lots are dead empty. The damn thing is 3 years old now and we only have 4 routes using it (Not including GO)

So, an increase in the cash fare? Yeah, most people use Presto so it doesn't mean much. But as MiWay brings it up, I think it's time for a serious reality check.

Once a 46 was 10 minutes late and when i asked him why, he said rudely "its just late ok?" or something like that. Compare that to MILLER. Also, I really dont know whats the issue, but frequency on miway seems to be the worst in all of the GTA. As far as I know, theres nothing under 10 minute service. Also, it has become quite obvious that EZRs are no longer needed at MiWay anymore. just retire the goddamn 09s. As with cleaniness, its pathetic. A major reason that I don't like Xcelsiors/4One Mariella/Aires anymore is because they turn to sh*t in the hands of miway especially the smooth plastic on rear window of the Xcelsiors. One spill, and bam, it will probably stay like that for at least a week. Also the miway branding is pathetic. they didn't even try when they installed the new city of mississauga logos and they are the only transit agency that doesnt refurb their busses, which is really ironic cause miway probably needs it the most. Also, they seem to be quite serious with regards to the "new" miway brand, but almost 8 years later, still over half the busses are still in the old livery. Overall, I think the only good thing about MiWay is that is doesnt get stuck in traffic as much and that empty transitway, none of which is because of MiWay's initiatives. Peel Region Transit is starting to sound good.

[noahrp24]

 

44 minutes ago, FlyerLFR said:

Once a 46 was 10 minutes late and when i asked him why, he said rudely "its just late ok?" or something like tha

Buses can be late due to various reasons such as; traffic, unexpected ridership, late relief, accident, and so on.. 

45 minutes ago, FlyerLFR said:

Also, I really dont know whats the issue, but frequency on miway seems to be the worst in all of the GTA. As far as I know, theres nothing under 10 minute service. 

Do you think theres a need to run 10 minute service on the route 46 all day, 7 days a week? Do you think that many people take the 46 to the point where they need to add that much service to it?

46 minutes ago, FlyerLFR said:

Also, it has become quite obvious that EZRs are no longer needed at MiWay anymore. just retire the goddamn 09s. 

No longer needed? We need every bus possible right now to keep service going. And you wonder why you keep seeing express buses on local routes and such?

47 minutes ago, FlyerLFR said:

As with cleaniness, its pathetic. A major reason that I don't like Xcelsiors/4One Mariella/Aires anymore is because they turn to sh*t in the hands of miway especially the smooth plastic on rear window of the Xcelsiors. One spill, and bam, it will probably stay like that for at least a week.

Do you know how much time the cleaners get to clean per bus at night? With over 300 buses in the fleet, they only get a short amount of time per bus...

50 minutes ago, FlyerLFR said:

they didn't even try when they installed the new city of mississauga logos

What do you mean "they didn't even try.."

51 minutes ago, FlyerLFR said:

 the only transit agency that doesnt refurb their busses, which is really ironic cause miway probably needs it the most.

A lot of transit agencies don't refurb their buses based on a wide variety of reasons. MiWay has its own maintenance that they send the buses for repairs as needed. Also just up until 2013, buses were being replaced after it's 12 year lifecycle which means it would have been a waste to refurb the buses and only to retire them a couple years later.

54 minutes ago, FlyerLFR said:

Also, they seem to be quite serious with regards to the "new" miway brand, but almost 8 years later, still over half the busses are still in the old livery. 

Please... no one gives a shit, and the livery isn't their top priority at the moment...

55 minutes ago, FlyerLFR said:

...and that empty transitway,...

Empty? Have you been to Dixie Station during rush hour?

[ngdvd]

Do people seriously believe that MiWay, which has 2.3 times higher ridership per capita than YRT, and provides 1.5 times the service hours per capita compared to YRT, is worse than YRT, and one of the worst in the GTA? YRT's falling ridership, constantly falling short of expectations, and all their service cuts is the standard?

2015 Ridership

MiWay 37.3 million (approx 50 per capita)

YRT 22.1 million (approx 22 per capita)

2014 Total Service Hours

MiWay 1,401,585 (approx 1.8 per capita)

YRT 1,203,000 (approx 1.2 per capita)

...

Even though York Region has a 50% larger population than Mississauga, the MiWay system is 20% larger than YRT, with 70% higher ridership. MiWay and YRT aren't even in the same tier. In terms of ridership and amount of service, YRT is closer to Oakville Transit than to either MiWay or Brampton Transit.

Part of the problem is, YRT had less ridership in 2015 than it did in 2012. From 2012 to 2015, YRT ridership fell by 0.2% while MiWay ridership increased by 7.8%. MiWay always had higher ridership than YRT, and it is still on the rise, while YRT is a declining system. YRT started from the bottom and now it's sinking even lower.

[Doppelkupplung]

11 hours ago, noahrp24 said:

 

a)Buses can be late due to various reasons such as; traffic, unexpected ridership, late relief, accident, and so on.. 

b)Do you think theres a need to run 10 minute service on the route 46 all day, 7 days a week? Do you think that many people take the 46 to the point where they need to add that much service to it?

c)No longer needed? We need every bus possible right now to keep service going. And you wonder why you keep seeing express buses on local routes and such?

d)Do you know how much time the cleaners get to clean per bus at night? With over 300 buses in the fleet, they only get a short amount of time per bus...

e)What do you mean "they didn't even try.."

f)A lot of transit agencies don't refurb their buses based on a wide variety of reasons. MiWay has its own maintenance that they send the buses for repairs as needed. Also just up until 2013, buses were being replaced after it's 12 year lifecycle which means it would have been a waste to refurb the buses and only to retire them a couple years later.

g)Please... no one gives a shit, and the livery isn't their top priority at the moment...

h)Empty? Have you been to Dixie Station during rush hour?

a).......or just maybe because most of their drivers have shit driving skills and show no sense of urgency? I was riding with my friend who does the 103, and he said the 103 ahead of her was half an hour late going s/b. He offered to pick up her passengers, but lo and behold, half an hour later after leaving port credit she's still coming s/b on Hurontario???? (this was yesterday in case anyone was wondering). My friend who was driving had a fight on his bus and was STILL only under 5 minutes off the dot. 

So, traffic/accident? Okay, fine. Unexpected ridership? MiWay is not the TTC or GO dealing with a Jays game. Nothing major happening in Mississauga that would cause unexpected ridership. (God forbid that to ever happen too). Late relief is a pretty shit excuse. Apparently drivers will get destroyed by supervisors/management if they leave the depot late, but show up to a stop 30 mins late? Not a problem for MiWay, just another day in the life. Relief drivers should not be late, unless they are they are just coming off another bus, with rarely happens from what I know. 

b ) Haven't ridden on the 46 enough to comment.

c) You're right, we need every bus we can get right now and least until next spring. 

d) Buddy, I've seen videos and documentaries on operations which include those types of jobs. Its not hard to maybe dust over some untouched things with a broom. Yeah, there's a time constraint, but that doesn't mean you lose your shit and do a half ass job.

e) I think they're still in the process of doing that.

f) I guess refurb was pointless once the order of 107 buses was announced. 

g) He is right......I mean first off, the MiWay brand, lets face it, will be getting on for 10 years soon and the majority of the buses are still in old colours. Maybe not the 03/05s, but 06/08/09 40' and 60's are going to be kicking around for at least another 5-6 years, a repaint wouldn't be a bad thing. And it should be near the top of their list if they want to promote this "MiWay" brand. So far it seems more like "TheirWay".

h) Yes I have, all of the 12 parked cars that I saw and 3 people on the platform. Let me put it to you this way, until late spring this year, you could still see the salt spread around the parking lots from the winter storms in just about every station. Are we really going argue about MiWay using the transitway? Like, let's be serious here, its been around for more than 3 years and we still have.....4 routes on it. 4. 

5 hours ago, ngdvd said:

Do people seriously believe that MiWay, which has 2.3 times higher ridership per capita than YRT, and provides 1.5 times the service hours per capita compared to YRT, is worse than YRT, and one of the worst in the GTA? YRT's falling ridership, constantly falling short of expectations, and all their service cuts is the standard?

2015 Ridership

MiWay 37.3 million (approx 50 per capita)

YRT 22.1 million (approx 22 per capita)

2014 Total Service Hours

MiWay 1,401,585 (approx 1.8 per capita)

YRT 1,203,000 (approx 1.2 per capita)

...

Even though York Region has a 50% larger population than Mississauga, the MiWay system is 20% larger than YRT, with 70% higher ridership. MiWay and YRT aren't even in the same tier. In terms of ridership and amount of service, YRT is closer to Oakville Transit than to either MiWay or Brampton Transit.

Part of the problem is, YRT had less ridership in 2015 than it did in 2012. From 2012 to 2015, YRT ridership fell by 0.2% while MiWay ridership increased by 7.8%. MiWay always had higher ridership than YRT, and it is still on the rise, while YRT is a declining system. YRT started from the bottom and now it's sinking even lower.

It doesn't matter how many service hours they put in. Sure, its great for those who have to work late. It's the quality of the service, and right now MiWay quality is pretty pathetic. And if you don't like me saying that, then let me show you this fine specimen which sums it up pretty well.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

17 hours ago, noahrp24 said:

 

Buses can be late due to various reasons such as; traffic, unexpected ridership, late relief, accident, and so on.. 

Do you think theres a need to run 10 minute service on the route 46 all day, 7 days a week? Do you think that many people take the 46 to the point where they need to add that much service to it?

No longer needed? We need every bus possible right now to keep service going. And you wonder why you keep seeing express buses on local routes and such?

Do you know how much time the cleaners get to clean per bus at night? With over 300 buses in the fleet, they only get a short amount of time per bus...

What do you mean "they didn't even try.."

A lot of transit agencies don't refurb their buses based on a wide variety of reasons. MiWay has its own maintenance that they send the buses for repairs as needed. Also just up until 2013, buses were being replaced after it's 12 year lifecycle which means it would have been a waste to refurb the buses and only to retire them a couple years later.

Please... no one gives a shit, and the livery isn't their top priority at the moment...

Empty? Have you been to Dixie Station during rush hour?

As with the late bus, it was 10 minutes late and it was the first afternoon run. Also the driver was rude about me asking  

 

By nothing under 10 minutes, I mean nothing in the entire MiWay system under 10 minutes. 

 

By no longer needed I mean that they should replace it. (Expand service? What a joke.) Also, it's not like they put they ever even use more than half the EZRs at once  

 

As with cleaning, they should at least be able to clean up the major spills. 

 

And if they don't give a shit about the livery then they shouldn't give a shit about the branding too. 

 

Also, it's been a while since the bus lifespan was extended to 15 year, and no refurb yet. And hey, it's not like they would be that desperate for a refurb either if they would actrually spend some time and do some maintence. 

 

The transitway way might not be completely empty, but most of the time it's pretty close to empty. Have you heard about metaphors??

12 hours ago, ngdvd said:

Do people seriously believe that MiWay, which has 2.3 times higher ridership per capita than YRT, and provides 1.5 times the service hours per capita compared to YRT, is worse than YRT, and one of the worst in the GTA? YRT's falling ridership, constantly falling short of expectations, and all their service cuts is the standard?

2015 Ridership

MiWay 37.3 million (approx 50 per capita)

YRT 22.1 million (approx 22 per capita)

2014 Total Service Hours

MiWay 1,401,585 (approx 1.8 per capita)

YRT 1,203,000 (approx 1.2 per capita)

...

Even though York Region has a 50% larger population than Mississauga, the MiWay system is 20% larger than YRT, with 70% higher ridership. MiWay and YRT aren't even in the same tier. In terms of ridership and amount of service, YRT is closer to Oakville Transit than to either MiWay or Brampton Transit.

Part of the problem is, YRT had less ridership in 2015 than it did in 2012. From 2012 to 2015, YRT ridership fell by 0.2% while MiWay ridership increased by 7.8%. MiWay always had higher ridership than YRT, and it is still on the rise, while YRT is a declining system. YRT started from the bottom and now it's sinking even lower.

That's because York Region is filled with rich people that don't take transit. 

Also, anything has better quality service than MiWay. 

6 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

a).......or just maybe because most of their drivers have shit driving skills and show no sense of urgency? I was riding with my friend who does the 103, and he said the 103 ahead of her was half an hour late going s/b. He offered to pick up her passengers, but lo and behold, half an hour later after leaving port credit she's still coming s/b on Hurontario???? (this was yesterday in case anyone was wondering). My friend who was driving had a fight on his bus and was STILL only under 5 minutes off the dot. 

So, traffic/accident? Okay, fine. Unexpected ridership? MiWay is not the TTC or GO dealing with a Jays game. Nothing major happening in Mississauga that would cause unexpected ridership. (God forbid that to ever happen too). Late relief is a pretty shit excuse. Apparently drivers will get destroyed by supervisors/management if they leave the depot late, but show up to a stop 30 mins late? Not a problem for MiWay, just another day in the life. Relief drivers should not be late, unless they are they are just coming off another bus, with rarely happens from what I know. 

b ) Haven't ridden on the 46 enough to comment.

c) You're right, we need every bus we can get right now and least until next spring. 

d) Buddy, I've seen videos and documentaries on operations which include those types of jobs. Its not hard to maybe dust over some untouched things with a broom. Yeah, there's a time constraint, but that doesn't mean you lose your shit and do a half ass job.

e) I think they're still in the process of doing that.

f) I guess refurb was pointless once the order of 107 buses was announced. 

g) He is right......I mean first off, the MiWay brand, lets face it, will be getting on for 10 years soon and the majority of the buses are still in old colours. Maybe not the 03/05s, but 06/08/09 40' and 60's are going to be kicking around for at least another 5-6 years, a repaint wouldn't be a bad thing. And it should be near the top of their list if they want to promote this "MiWay" brand. So far it seems more like "TheirWay".

h) Yes I have, all of the 12 parked cars that I saw and 3 people on the platform. Let me put it to you this way, until late spring this year, you could still see the salt spread around the parking lots from the winter storms in just about every station. Are we really going argue about MiWay using the transitway? Like, let's be serious here, its been around for more than 3 years and we still have.....4 routes on it. 4. 

It doesn't matter how many service hours they put in. Sure, its great for those who have to work late. It's the quality of the service, and right now MiWay quality is pretty pathetic. And if you don't like me saying that, then let me show you this fine specimen which sums it up pretty well.

 

 

 

 

 

There's also an Orion VII with a semi-broken desto and two with unpainted grilles that has been left unpainted for YEARS now. Tell me that's not pathetic. I swear, even American Airlines does better than this. 

 

Also does anyone know about the new rear doors on 0890?

[Nicomadrid]

On 9/14/2017 at 11:03 PM, MiWay0310 said:

OMG I could not agree more with both @FlyerLFR & @MiWay0310. I don't go on this forum too often any more as I now have my own car, but man @MiWay0310 really captured EXACTLY how I felt about Miway throughout my years of going to UTM using that system. It is utter GARBAGE! I used to take the 44 from Meadowvale Town Centre all the way to UTM and the service would be directly dependent on who was the driver. If the driver left Meadowvale Town Centre on time and drove to the speed limit consistently, we'd get to UTM on time or just 2-3 mins late. But too many times I've had drivers that would consistently leave 4-5 mins sometimes close to 10 mins late. When I'd inquire about the delay, they'd always be so rude and unprofessional about it - telling me it's their right to use the bathroom etc or "it's not my fault" "I don't know" "what do you want me to do". I completely agree that in some cases, traffic can be unpredictable, passenger load can surge, weather conditions etc...many factors, but a little customer service goes a long way, don't you think? Just having a sense of urgency and being apologetic even when you're not at fault means a lot to most customers. Whenever a bus was late, 95% of drivers were dismissive about it, instead of being sympathetic with the customer (myself). During my 4 years at UTM, I complained numerous times about the service that some drivers would provide, and to be fair, they did get supervisors involved, who did speak to the drivers...but all that would ever ensue would be the driver switching routes and providing the same shit service on another route. In my last year taking Miway, I even had a driver persist on signing up for route 44 despite me having complained to him and about him numerous times (WARNING - THIS IS A LONG STORY).

He just could NEVER make it on time to UTM (arriving sometimes 15-20 mins late) and it was simply because he drove SO SLOW. I honestly never care how fast or slow a driver goes, as long as I get to my destination on time, but as we'd consistently arrive late at UTM, I started paying attention to his driving, and we were sometimes taking FOUR TO FIVE minutes just to clear the Meadowvale Town Centre circle. FOUR TO FIVE MINS!!! And that's because he would literally let EVERY other bus in front of him! He drove at 40 sometimes 35 km/h on Mississauga Road, where it is posted 50 km/h (except in Streetsville). I felt bad complaining to him because he always left the bus stop on time, but when I did approach him nicely, telling him I respect his job, respect him, but would appreciate it if he made more of an effort to arrive to UTM on time because I have class, he responded: "well then, perhaps you should consider taking the earlier bus" and that pissed me off so much, because I had gotten that numerous times before, and what these drivers don't know or don't care to know, is that 44 only runs every 35 mins or so and that I also need to take bus 38 or 43 on the way to Meadowvale Town Centre, so it's not just a question of "taking the ealier bus". It's not like route 110 that runs every 9 mins at peak time. And also, when the bus is scheduled to arrive at UTM at 8:55 and you're there at 9:15, this is not a question of me taking the earlier bus but rather you taking responsibility for being late. Anyhow, I replied to him that I noticed he drove quite slow and that we would always be at crawling speed when clearing Meadowvale, and then I exited the bus. I waited a week, no changes. So I called the call center and complained, and of course, said driver knew it was me, so he'd give me dirty looks from then on every time I'd go into the bus. He's also one of those drivers that doesn't select D when he drives but instead 3, so it keeps the bus at maximum 3rd gear. That bothers me at higher speeds, because especially on a 2003 or 2005 (which he would always pick - sometimes opting for an 08 or 09), it can get quite loud back there. But I never complained because the bus would barely even reach 3rd gear as he drove so slowly. One day though, he picked 2nd gear and I even remember the exact bus (0507) as I was so pissed about how loud it was. And mind you, I had noise cancelling headphones. So I complained to him again: "you know how loud you're making the bus by keeping it in second gear?" to which he didn't reply. Fast forward a few weeks, he switches times, not routes, which was astonishing to me because usually, the drivers that get to drive on route 44 in the morning have a lot of seniority and can therefore pick pretty much any route and any time they want. It's almost like he relished the conflict. One day, as I took the bus on the way back to Meadowvale from UTM (so 44N), his destination sign was showing 44S, but knowing all the 44 times by heart, I knew the 12:17 bus was going north. So I boarded the bus, not intending to say anything, and actually the person that got in before me mentioned it to him, to which he replied with a grunt: "I know it's wrong, don't ask me why", I took off my headphones and as I passed him, he said: "got something to say today?". I said: "nope". He goes: "good, 'cause if you do you won't be riding on this bus any more". I turned around and said: "I'm sorry, say that again?" He said something along the lines of: "you've been harassing me even since you started riding on this bus", to which I replied: "complaining about you being late and not driving properly is harassment?". He told me not to stand beside him and to go sit. I obliged and as soon as I got off, I logged in a formal complaint about him. I'd like to think he was suspended for threatening me like this, or at least reprimanded - but of course I'll never know for sure due to privacy policies. This happened in March-April 2016 and during the summer, he switched to route 39. Got my own car in May. 

This was not the only incident though. I had a driver in my first year of University, who would consistently leave between 4-8 mins late, again on 44. Turns out he is notorious for being late in every route he signs up for, but that there is limited sanction that can be imposed, as drivers are unionized. So basically, the minute he says he's using the bathroom, there is only so much supervisors can do. I heard he even brags about being late: "I'm on Caribbean time!" Says it all about Miway I think. I mean, whenever I ride on the GO bus, I can just feel the sense of urgency in every driver. I mean, not that I encourage speeding, but let's just say that I often get passed or tailed by GO bus drivers if I'm not going 10-15 km/h above the limit. Plus, in 5 years of taking the GO bus on/off on different routes, I've never had any single driver leave late. Not even a single minute late. And lastly, yes until recently, Miway was retiring their fleet right at 12 years, but come on, I had just started HIGH SCHOOL when they launched MiLocal & MiExpress, and I'm now finished University and the vast majority of their fleet is still made up of 03s, 05s, 06s, 07s & 08s-09s etc that all have a livery that was designed nearly 20 years ago. If you tally up these buses vs the 10s, 11s, 12s, 13s, 14s and even the new 17s, I'm pretty sure a good 70% of the fleet still looks like when I was in elementary school! And I also find it so cheap that they only repair/repaint buses panel per panel. I'm not asking for a complete rebuild but come on, they could give the buses some new paint, no? I do acknowledge they have repainted select few buses, but they repaint it in the old livery minus the Mississauga logo on the rear quarters so that there is no discrepancy - so so cheap. For me, there's no excuse for not repainting all buses with the new livery. Brampton Transit does it, TTC does it, Oakville does it etc. So glad I no longer need Miway!

 

[ngdvd]

7 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

It doesn't matter how many service hours they put in. Sure, its great for those who have to work late. It's the quality of the service, and right now MiWay quality is pretty pathetic.

Revenue service hours is the indicator of the amount of service. Increased frequencies means more service hours.

For example, an hour long, two-way route operating at 30 minute frequency would require 4 buses. Operating 18 hours a day, everyday,  that would mean 64 service hours per day, or 23,360 service hours annually. If the frequency is increased to 15 minutes, that would mean 128 service hours per day, or 46,720 service hours annually.

So over 1.4M annual service hours, 1.8 per capita, means MiWay provides a vastly higher level of service compared to YRT. It's not even close. Miway provides around 20% more bus service than YRT, for a much smaller population in a much smaller area. That's why MiWay ridership per capita is 2.3 times higher than YRT. 37 million riders annual vs. 22 million. Again not even close.

 

 

58 minutes ago, FlyerLFR said:

That's because York Region is filled with rich people that don't take transit. 

That could be part of it. I would say the main problem is Steeles, the busiest east-west transit corridor of York Region, is not part of the YRT system.

 

58 minutes ago, FlyerLFR said:

Also, anything has better quality service than MiWay.

Compelling argument.

[Doppelkupplung]

42 minutes ago, ngdvd said:

Revenue service hours is the indicator of the amount of service. Increased frequencies means more service hours.

For example, an hour long, two-way route operating at 30 minute frequency would require 4 buses. Operating 18 hours a day, everyday,  that would mean 64 service hours per day, or 23,360 service hours annually. If the frequency is increased to 15 minutes, that would mean 128 service hours per day, or 46,720 service hours annually.

So over 1.4M annual service hours, 1.8 per capita, means MiWay provides a vastly higher level of service compared to YRT. It's not even close. Miway provides around 20% more bus service than YRT, for a much smaller population in a much smaller area. That's why MiWay ridership per capita is 2.3 times higher than YRT. 37 million riders annual vs. 22 million. Again not even close.

That may well be the case but its kind of pointless stating how many buses run on a route when they get turned around for being too late, which seems to be a regular case with MiWay. If you have buses turn around regularly because they are so late, think about how many people are being inconvenienced, that too with, as you said, increasing ridership. What happens when 4 buses show up at once? That's more of a daily routine with MiWay rather than an occurence. Increasing ridership is not an excuse for shit service. Increased frequency has no meaning if those sorts of situations happen, and for MiWay, that's a regular basis. If you have increasing ridership, adapt to it, which is why these 107 buses are a blessing.

Again, quality of service, not quantity. 

Also, back to the issue with drivers, I think its something deep down in training. A wimpy driver/trainer will train other drivers to be wimpy. And there is absolutely no sense of willingness from the drivers to improve and learn skills. It comes down to simple things too. Alot of you know that the 2013+ Xcelsiors have that "brake-hold" function. I know every single once of you on this forum has heard the driver endlessly fiddling around with the brakes to get it released. Its a daily occurence, and what is funny is that its so simple to overcome. My friend who does the 103 these days says you just apply the throttle and it will self-release. Its things like that that make a difference. If you're fiddling around with the brakes, you might end up missing that light, whereas if you knew what to do, you'd be on schedule. The fact that drivers still don't know how manage stuff like this when we are getting on for 7 years in the xcelsior era really shows that there is something wrong with training. 

And please don't get me started on drivers driving in 3rd gear. 

[MiExpress]

Unfortunately some of the last few posts are based on points where the posters clearly do not understand the facts and the implication of the points they are making. 

22 hours ago, FlyerLFR said:

Also, I really dont know whats the issue, but frequency on miway seems to be the worst in all of the GTA. As far as I know, theres nothing under 10 minute service. 

Nothing under 10 minute service? Let me share with you routes that have 10 minutes or better weekday rush hour frequency:

19 Hurontario - 6 minutes

107 Malton Express - 8 minutes 

109 Meadowvale Express - 8 minutes

110 University Express - 9 minutes

3 Bloor - 10 minutes

5 Dixie - 10 minutes

35 Eglinton - 10 minutes

42 Derry - 10 minutes

66 McLaughlin - 10 minutes

101 Dundas Express - 10 minutes

103 Hurontario Express - 10 minutes 

The generally accepted standard in transit for frequent service (not having to consult a schedule) is 15 minutes or better. Using that standard the list expands even more:

51 Tomken - 12 minutes

1 Dundas - 12 minutes

11 Westwood - 11-12  minutes

23 Lakeshore - 14 minutes

6 Credit Woodlands - 15 minutes

26 Burnhamthorpe - 15 minutes

28 Confederation - 15 minutes

44 Mississauga Road - 15 minutes

45 Winston Churchill - 15 minutes

61 Mavis - 15 minutes

76 City Centre-Subway - 15 minutes

By using the GTA as your benchmark for comparison you are suggesting that even systems like Milton, Oakville, Burlington, and Durham Region offer better frequency and service levels than MiWay. Your comment that MiWay has nothing under 10 minutes is also proven wrong and you could have spared the embarrassment of being completely wrong by taking a few minutes to consult the MiWay route schedules rather than just trying to pull stuff out of thin air.

22 hours ago, FlyerLFR said:

Also, it has become quite obvious that EZRs are no longer needed at MiWay anymore. just retire the goddamn 09s.

How many times has it been discussed in this thread that the Eldorados are being retired beginning at the end of the year? It's quite obvious you haven't been paying attention.

22 hours ago, FlyerLFR said:

Also the miway branding is pathetic. they didn't even try when they installed the new city of mississauga logos and they are the only transit agency that doesnt refurb their busses, which is really ironic cause miway probably needs it the most. Also, they seem to be quite serious with regards to the "new" miway brand, but almost 8 years later, still over half the busses are still in the old livery.

Are you suggesting buses should be taken off the road to deal with minor issues such as stickers? Are you also suggesting that buses be taken off the road for repaints which can take weeks, therefore potentially impacting the level of service provided?

MiWay has generally always replaced their buses on a 12-15 year life cycle and has performed major preventative work on their buses when and as needed, even if the bus is close to retirement. For example, you have clearly noticed all the 2003 and 2005 D40LFs with body work over the past few years. There are costs associated with operating and maintaining a fleet of buses that go beyond just potentially refurbishing buses.

22 hours ago, FlyerLFR said:

Peel Region Transit is starting to sound good.

In what way? Are you aware that if transit was a regional responsibility, there would be obligation to serve places like Caledon, Bolton, and the huge swaths of rural area north of Brampton meaning potentially less service being offered in both Mississauga and Brampton  Peel Region does not just consist of Mississauga and Brampton after all.

On 9/14/2017 at 11:03 PM, MiWay0310 said:

I live in Mississauga and I worked in downtown Toronto for one year. I took GO every day. That, in my opinion, is the model system of the GTA. Drivers are always on the ball, always on time (some times too on time). The sense of urgency with their drivers is clear and they don't let anything get in their way. Yes, it has a heavy focus on highway use, but there is a clear difference in the training their drivers get and the training MiWay drivers get. Maybe its high time we learned from them. 

This is the first problem with your 2 posts which are more general rants not necessarily supported by actual facts. You are using GO Transit as the basis for your posts about MiWay. In fact, you even admit that there is a difference between the two systems later in your post (reference to mostly highway use) which would defeat a good chunk of the arguments you attempt to put forward.

Second, your anger is misplaced and in some cases you display a selfish, arrogant attitude which is getting in your way of not only presenting facts, but also understanding and accepting facts which I will break down below. 

On 9/14/2017 at 11:03 PM, MiWay0310 said:

I completely agree with @FlyerLFR. MiWay has to have by far one of the most pathetic services in the GTA.

Another person making a statement without knowing the implication of it. Just like I mentioned to FlyerLFR, by making this statement you are suggesting that systems such as Milton, Oakville, Burlington, and Durham Region offer better frequency and service levels than MiWay.

On 9/14/2017 at 11:03 PM, MiWay0310 said:

The buses usually show up late, and the 90% of the drivers show little to no urgency to keep the route on schedule. There is also some serious questioning to be done in the actual training and re-training. For example, today I took the 110 from UTM to Clarkson. This driver drove as if there were no passengers on the bus. What I mean to say is he stamped the throttle every couple of seconds, and on a 2010 Express Orion, the buses are jerky as it is, so the constant mashing of the accelerator does not help this issue. And before any of you object, this is NOT like a one time thing. I experience this sort of driving at least a few times a week (and no, not the same driver). On the curves on Collegeway the man is mashing the brakes down to 30 kph which makes no sense since it is a 50 or 60 kph street. Yeah, buses are big, but they aren't going to tip over going up the curves on collegeway, right? Especially with low traffic. On Erin Mills he was doing at best 45kph. The 70 kph speed limit is there for a reason, right? Very few of Miway's drivers show urgency to get their passengers to where they need to be. And this is a consistent issue (I cannot stress that enough). It is so frustrating when these drivers decide to drive slowly, especially when you are trying to get somewhere, catch a connection (and an on time one, God forbid).

 

10 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

a).......or just maybe because most of their drivers have shit driving skills and show no sense of urgency?....

There are many examples of your selfish and arrogant attitude in these 2 excerpts taken from your last 2 posts.

Are you a transit operator with experience driving a transit bus? If no, you have no credibility to judge the driving skills of transit operators.

Second, Your comments about drivers showing no sense of urgency is both a selfish display and misplacing your anger. If drivers are driving slow, it is in most cases to maintain schedule adherence and/or maintain safe operation of the bus. By suggesting they have no urgency and driving well below the speed limits, you are making the implication that buses should sometimes operate ahead of schedule, inconveniencing other passengers and/or in a unsafe manner so "people can get where they need to go". This is a very selfish viewpoint.

10 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

Late relief is a pretty shit excuse. Apparently drivers will get destroyed by supervisors/management if they leave the depot late, but show up to a stop 30 mins late? Not a problem for MiWay, just another day in the life. Relief drivers should not be late, unless they are they are just coming off another bus, with rarely happens from what I know. 

Clearly you do not know much because you continue to make inaccurate assumptions. Relief drivers coming off other buses is very common, they are called 'hook ups' by the way.

10 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

c) You're right, we need every bus we can get right now and least until next spring. 

 

10 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

g) He is right......I mean first off, the MiWay brand, lets face it, will be getting on for 10 years soon and the majority of the buses are still in old colours. Maybe not the 03/05s, but 06/08/09 40' and 60's are going to be kicking around for at least another 5-6 years, a repaint wouldn't be a bad thing. And it should be near the top of their list if they want to promote this "MiWay" brand. So far it seems more like "TheirWay".

 

Do you even know what you are suggesting? First, you acknowledge that we need every bus we can get right now, then suggest that buses should be taken out of service to be  repainted. Are you aware that to to body work such as repainting to a bus could take weeks to complete, therefore removing buses from service and impacting the level of service that can be delivered? 

The buses you list are not all going to be 'kicking around for another 5-6 years'. The budgeted lifespan of a MiWay 40 foot bus right now is 14-15 years while an articulated bus is budgeted for a 12 year lifespan. Most of the buses you list will be in service for less than '5-6 years'. Take note of the word budgeted, this means that the buses in question could be replaced sooner if additional capital funding is obtained for bus replacement. 

On 9/14/2017 at 11:03 PM, MiWay0310 said:

The cleanliness on these buses is appalling. If you find yourself on an 08 60', go to the back and see the dust on top of the wheel wells. Looks like its been there since 2007 when we got them. I GUARANTEE you that you fill find that on every single bus in our fleet (maybe not the 17s just yet). I rarely ever find these buses clean. Newspapers everywhere, gum stuck to the floor, people putting feet up on seats; you get the point. 

 

10 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

d) Buddy, I've seen videos and documentaries on operations which include those types of jobs. Its not hard to maybe dust over some untouched things with a broom. Yeah, there's a time constraint, but that doesn't mean you lose your shit and do a half ass job.

Another example of your arrogant tone, you clearly show no understanding of how the process works and once again your anger is misplaced. You mention newspapers, gum stuck on the floor, people putting feet up on the seats. Who is responsible for creating those conditions? MiWay passengers. Why don't you put some of the blame on passengers who are responsible for this (as you partly acknowledge by mentioning feet on seats). A bus can be in service up to 18-20 hours per day and there are almost 500 buses in the fleet.

 

On 9/14/2017 at 11:03 PM, MiWay0310 said:

My other massive irritation with this system is the whole concept of "neighbourhood tours". For example, the 101E leaves South Common, goes to Erin Mills and back to South Millway. All for what? So the "huge" crowd of 2 to no people can get on at Fifth line?. Like seriously? If they are so desperate to serve Fifth line, why can't they at least stop at Erin Mills and South Millway? It's not gonna kill people to walk 50 meters more right? Erin Mills is faster, so use it! It takes 15 minutes realistically with an EXPRESS bus to get from South Common to UTM (Don't question it, I know).

Yes I will question this because you clearly know very little and your arrogance still shows. There is already another express service between South Common and UTM that operates 7 days a week and takes far less than 15 minutes. It is called route 110 University Express.

On 9/14/2017 at 11:03 PM, MiWay0310 said:

And there are waaay more routes I can complain about, but for the sake of not wasting your time, I won't.

 

On 9/14/2017 at 11:03 PM, MiWay0310 said:

Another thing i'd like to add (as I finish the unintentional essay...sorry) is this: We have a forum dedicated to MiWay. Why not discuss actual solutions to these sorts of issues. I know alot of you guys do that indeed, but we should utilize this sort of community, the variety of knowledge we all bring about transit, specifically MiWay, to find fixes to the system, and possibly even propose it to MiWay (idea?) rather than have people losing their minds about when the Novas are arriving and which color bus was on the wrong route and what CX bus was at Malton and endless discussions about fleet shortages etc. 

You wouldn't be wasting our time if your provided some suggestions on what you would like to see improved and how. Where are your suggestions anyways, after all you suggest we should all propose ways to improve MiWay yet I don't see a single suggestion from you.

10 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

It doesn't matter how many service hours they put in. Sure, its great for those who have to work late. It's the quality of the service, and right now MiWay quality is pretty pathetic. And if you don't like me saying that, then let me show you this fine specimen which sums it up pretty well.

By the way, service hours refers to the total amount of service provided. 1 bus in service for 6 hours = 6 service hours. 10 buses in service on route 19 for 12 hours = 120 service hours. So yes, it does matter how many service hours are provided as it shows how much is being invested in transit. Or were you just quick to dismiss it because you think you're right and it didn't fit your narrative?

On 9/14/2017 at 11:03 PM, MiWay0310 said:

And before any of you start going on about that damn Transitway, bear in mind that the majority of those parking lots are dead empty. The damn thing is 3 years old now and we only have 4 routes using it (Not including GO)

So, an increase in the cash fare? Yeah, most people use Presto so it doesn't mean much. But as MiWay brings it up, I think it's time for a serious reality check.

 

On 9/15/2017 at 2:39 AM, Xtrazsteve said:

At least someone agrees the transitway is pathetic. Unlike Ottawa which is overcapacty near the core, Miway has pretty much at 5% of the capacity.

 

10 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

h) Yes I have, all of the 12 parked cars that I saw and 3 people on the platform. Let me put it to you this way, until late spring this year, you could still see the salt spread around the parking lots from the winter storms in just about every station. Are we really going argue about MiWay using the transitway? Like, let's be serious here, its been around for more than 3 years and we still have.....4 routes on it. 4. 

 

22 hours ago, FlyerLFR said:

Overall, I think the only good thing about MiWay is that is doesnt get stuck in traffic as much and that empty transitway...

All these have been lumped together because they make the same argument without any facts to back them up. There is clearly a need for the transitway and the service provided on it yet you all embarrass yourselves by knowing nothing about what you're talking about. If you had perhaps commented about some of the infrastructure such as stations and parking lots being overbuilt you may have found some agreement but to suggest the transitway is not used because the parking lots are empty couldn't be more wrong. 

While all of you try to claim the transitway is empty and not used, let's look at some facts that demonstrate how wrong you all are:

In November 2014 when the transitway opened, the frequency of the 2 main routes (107 and 109) during weekday rush hour was 12 minutes each with a combined frequency of every 6 minutes. We are almost 3 years later and currently the weekday rush hour frequency is 8 minutes for each route with a combined frequency of 4 minutes. Add in route 21 and the current combined frequency is 3.4 minutes. 

In early 2018, route 100 will be introduced with 15 minute frequency which will bring the combined frequency between routes 21, 100, 107, 109 down to 2.8 minutes. And that's not accounting in any further frequency increases to the 107 and 109.

Clearly if all this service is being added there must be demand. How is the current demand on the transitway? Is all this service wasteful?

Let's take a look at some of the comments sent into the MiWayHelps twitter feed. These are comments from people who use the transitway as part of their commute, not from people who sit in armchairs behind computer screens thinking they know everything. To these riders, the transitway is certainly not empty or poorly used. 

 

The Transitway also helps speed up travel time and provides a more comfortable experience. See below:

And the worst comment for last....

On 9/15/2017 at 2:39 AM, Xtrazsteve said:

Transit in the 905 isn't going to change overnight even if there were express routes on every major corridor. Those who take transit on the GO isn't going to switch to MiWay/TTC. Good that they are thinking transit but they're too optimistic.

Do you even understand what you're stating here? Basically you just implied that the 905 transit systems shouldn't even bother trying to improve service because "it isn't going to change overnight" and they're "too optimistic"

Seriously, consider what you just said, and then think about it again. Essentially the 905 systems should just give up according to you. If nothing's going to change we might as well just stop being improving transit. 

How about the fact that Brampton Transit and Mississauga have seen ridership growth over the past few years by investing in better transit service, introducing rapid transit and all day express routes on major corridors?

This entire post was made to counter inaccurate posts or posts that were made without any fact or knowledge behind them, but this last comment takes the cake for pulling stuff out of one's ass and trying to sound right.

 When people make these types of comments they can very well expect to be called out on their comments.

Suggested reading for all to get a better understanding of MiWay: 2017 MiWay Business Plan and Budget

 

[Xtrazsteve]

34 minutes ago, Silly Tilley said:

 

Do you even understand what you're stating here? Basically you just implied that the 905 transit systems shouldn't even bother trying to improve service because "it isn't going to change overnight" and they're "too optimistic"

Seriously, consider what you just said, and then think about it again. Essentially the 905 systems should just give up according to you. If nothing's going to change we might as well just stop being improving transit. 

How about the fact that Brampton Transit and Mississauga have seen ridership growth over the past few years by investing in better transit service, introducing rapid transit and all day express routes on major corridors?

This entire post was made to counter inaccurate posts or posts that were made without any fact or knowledge behind them, but this last comment takes the cake for pulling stuff out of one's ass and trying to sound right.

 When people make these types of comments they can very well expect to be called out on their comments.

Suggested reading for all to get a better understanding of MiWay: 2017 MiWay Business Plan and Budget

 

First of all, I never said they shouldn't improve transit.

You are too pro transit. Miway can shut down tomorrow and only 5-10% of the population would be screwed. The number of bus riders compared to auto traffic on any 905 corridor is a big difference. You can ask the people in Mississauga why they'll never take MiWay. It just takes too long to get anywhere if you have to make a transfer or two. Honestly if all the 905 system (especially YRT) gave up, the cities would save a lot of money. Although, that would be bad for the future health of the city.

The Transitway is optimistic but it's much better than the YRT rapidway. I'm not saying they shouldn't expand transit but sending a lot of money on one transitway that only improves travel time for a small percentage of the riders isn't the best way to build transit. It's still built in a place that's difficult to access by walking traffic. A similar case with the Scarborough subway. 

Also, combined service on the transitway doesn't mean much. Not all of the riders don't begin or end their trip at a transitway station. There isn't much POI or high density development along any of the transitway stations. The frequency of each route is more important.

Quote

Transit in the 905 isn't going to change overnight even if there were express routes on every major corridor. Those who take transit on the GO isn't going to switch to MiWay/TTC. Good that they are thinking transit but they're too optimistic.

Now, how is this comment inaccurate? If they improved every service to 5 minutes with direct express buses, everyone would be out of their cars and enjoying Miway? Go ask your neighbours if they'll take the bus if they tripled the frequency next week. If they are, they will and if not, they probably won't. Keep dreaming if they would. Inaccurate? Not everyone is a bus lover and enjoys putting their ass on a seat for 60-90 minute on a bus instead of 30 min in a car. 

That's just a generalization. Of course, they should add services like the 142 Derry Express or extend the 185 south where their is demand. The riders who can directly benefit from such service should get that benefit but it won't attract people who doesn't have easy access to transit. 

Did I attack you love for Miway and transitway that made you so angry and rude? Someone say something bad about your love and you have to get so upset.

[Doppelkupplung]

2 hours ago, Silly Tilley said:

Unfortunately the last few posts are based on points where the posters clearly do not understand the facts and the implication of the points they are making. 

a)This is the first problem with your 2 posts which are more general rants not necessarily supported by actual facts. You are using GO Transit as the basis for your posts about MiWay. In fact, you even admit that there is a difference between the two systems later in your post (reference to mostly highway use) which would defeat a good chunk of the arguments you attempt to put forward.

Second, your anger is misplaced and in some cases you display a selfish, arrogant attitude which is getting in your way of not only presenting facts, but also understanding and accepting facts which I will break down below. 

b)Another person making a statement without knowing the implication of it. Just like I mentioned to FlyerLFR, by making this statement you are suggesting that systems such as Milton, Oakville, Burlington, and Durham Region offer better frequency and service levels than MiWay.

c)There are many examples of your selfish and arrogant attitude in these 2 excerpts taken from your last 2 posts.

Are you a transit operator with experience driving a transit bus? If no, you have no credibility to judge the driving skills of transit operators.

Second, Your comments about drivers showing no sense of urgency is both a selfish display and misplacing your anger. If drivers are driving slow, it is in most cases to maintain schedule adherence and/or maintain safe operation of the bus. By suggesting they have no urgency and driving well below the speed limits, you are making the implication that buses should sometimes operate ahead of schedule, inconveniencing other passengers and/or in a unsafe manner so "people can get where they need to go". This is a very selfish viewpoint.

d)Clearly you do not know much because you continue to make inaccurate assumptions. Relief drivers coming off other buses is very common, they are called 'hook ups' by the way.

e)Do you even know what you are suggesting? First, you acknowledge that we need every bus we can get right now, then suggest that buses should be taken out of service to be  repainted. Are you aware that to to body work such as repainting to a bus could take weeks to complete, therefore removing buses from service and impacting the level of service that can be delivered? 

The buses you list are not all going to be 'kicking around for another 5-6 years'. The budgeted lifespan of a MiWay 40 foot bus right now is 14-15 years while an articulated bus is budgeted for a 12 year lifespan. Most of the buses you list will be in service for less than '5-6 years'. Take note of the word budgeted, this means that the buses in question could be replaced sooner if additional capital funding is obtained for bus replacement. 

f)Another example of your arrogant tone, you clearly show no understanding of how the process works and once again your anger is misplaced. You mention newspapers, gum stuck on the floor, people putting feet up on the seats. Who is responsible for creating those conditions? MiWay passengers. Why don't you put some of the blame on passengers who are responsible for this (as you partly acknowledge by mentioning feet on seats). A bus can be in service up to 18-20 hours per day and there are almost 500 buses in the fleet.

g)Yes I will question this because you clearly know very little and your arrogance still shows. There is already another express service between South Common and UTM that operates 7 days a week and takes far less than 15 minutes. It is called route 110 University Express.

h)You wouldn't be wasting our time if your provided some suggestions on what you would like to see improved and how. Where are your suggestions anyways, after all you suggest we should all propose ways to improve MiWay yet I don't see a single suggestion from you.

i)By the way, service hours refers to the total amount of service provided. 1 bus in service for 6 hours = 6 service hours. 10 buses in service on route 19 for 12 hours = 120 service hours. So yes, it does matter how many service hours are provided as it shows how much is being invested in transit. Or were you just quick to dismiss it because you think you're right and it didn't fit your narrative?

j)All these have been lumped together because they make the same argument without any facts to back them up. There is clearly a need for the transitway and the service provided on it yet you all embarrass yourselves by knowing nothing about what you're talking about. If you had perhaps commented about some of the infrastructure such as stations and parking lots being overbuilt you may have found some agreement but to suggest the transitway is not used because the parking lots are empty couldn't be more wrong. 

While all of you try to claim the transitway is empty and not used, let's look at some facts that demonstrate how wrong you all are:

In November 2014 when the transitway opened, the frequency of the 2 main routes (107 and 109) during weekday rush hour was 12 minutes each with a combined frequency of every 6 minutes. We are almost 3 years later and currently the weekday rush hour frequency is 8 minutes for each route with a combined frequency of 4 minutes. Add in route 21 and the current combined frequency is 3.4 minutes. 

In early 2018, route 100 will be introduced with 15 minute frequency which will bring the combined frequency between routes 21, 100, 107, 109 down to 2.8 minutes. And that's not accounting in any further frequency increases to the 107 and 109.

Clearly if all this service is being added there must be demand. How is the current demand on the transitway? Is all this service wasteful?

First off, I'd like to start by saying that I hope you feel all big and strong now by coming out with some relatively disrespectful and rude comments. Right off the bat I will admit I don't know about transit as much as some of you guys do in this forum, but I do know a few things. I also feel like you think that MiWay is some magical and flawless transit system which is a bit worrying. Also for the record, nothing said here by me is personal, before anyone gets all annoyed and angry with me. 

a)I'm gonna start by saying that nowhere am I displaying a "selfish and arrogant" attitude. Like everyone else, I want MiWay to be a better system, I just find that it has some pretty irritating flaws. I'm just one passenger out of many, and I'm sure they'd all like to get to where they are going as quick and as efficiently as possible. Are you going to call all other passengers selfish and arrogant as well? I think you're displaying more of an arrogant attitude judging by the tone of your posts. 

So obviously, as I said, GO Transit has a heavy focus on highway driving, but they still do a significant part on streets. They obviously show a little more urgency in their transport. Why can't we have that? It's either down to training or scheduling, and of course, you will obviously say that there is probably no give in the schedules and they're as tight as they can be. So why do many buses show up late? You can break that down into uncontrollable situations like traffic, accidents etc. But when those situations aren't around, why are drivers consistently so slow? I guess you're one of those people who think that "safe operation of a bus" is slow driving.

b )Okay, not pathetic, but definitely not one of the better ones. 

c)Once again, not being selfish or arrogant. How about the fact that I have a close friend who works for MiWay who i've known for the better part of 9 years and  ridden with regularly? He himself says there is a big issue with training in this system (now I understand this is a 3rd party source, however it is a good one). I'm not showing anger, I'm showing frustration. But obviously you seem to be fine with that sort of driving. Nowhere did I say OR imply that driver' should be ahead of schedule. If driver's are driving slow to adhere to the schedule, then there is obviously something wrong with the schedule for being too relaxed. Especially on an express route like the 110. It's not a selfish viewpoint. But I guess you think spending as much time on the bus as possible is a good thing, so once again your opinion, not mine. 

d)I will gladly admit that I am wrong here. 

e) Did I say we should drop everything and repaint the buses? 

f) I may be partially wrong here, but some of my points still stand.

g) I will completely admit that I messed up on that point. The 110 is faster. But my argument for the routing of the 101E leaving south common is perfectly valid. 

h) Well, to start, how about fixing the routing on the 101 like I mentioned? You obviously didn't think of that, right? How about making the 6 a more streamlined route? Why does it have to go through every single neighbourhood in the CW? It's not going to kill people to walk a few minutes. That route takes 30 mins to get to CCTT. 

i) Once again, okay if you have more service hours, that's great, but what if your buses end up being late, stuck in traffic or end up having to short turn? 

j) Yes, only now are people starting to use it, over 3 years after it was introduced. Its about time MiWay introduced some routes onto it. And from what I hear, GOT is increasing its use in the coming weeks. 

I think you need to take it easy buddy. You take things a little seriously for what is supposed to be a discussion forum. If somebody makes a mistake, its okay. I understand its your job, but there's no need to chew them out bit by bit. But its good to know that you are dedicated to the forum.....

[ngdvd]

2 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

That may well be the case but its kind of pointless stating how many buses run on a route when they get turned around for being too late, which seems to be a regular case with MiWay. If you have buses turn around regularly because they are so late, think about how many people are being inconvenienced, that too with, as you said, increasing ridership. What happens when 4 buses show up at once? That's more of a daily routine with MiWay rather than an occurence. Increasing ridership is not an excuse for shit service. Increased frequency has no meaning if those sorts of situations happen, and for MiWay, that's a regular basis. If you have increasing ridership, adapt to it, which is why these 107 buses are a blessing.

In 20 years using Mississauga Transit, I never seen buses turned around and trips cancelled.

Do realize how much your claims contradict each other? 4 buses bunched together? How is that possible if trips are routinely canceled?

And you claimed MiWay has poor frequencies. How can they buses bunch together if the frequency is so poor? For a route 60 minute long operating at 30 minute frequency, there are only four buses on the route to begin with. The frontmost bus would have to be 90 minutes late to bunch with very last bus, assuming the very last bus is not late either. How can buses routinely be 90 minutes late?

Basically what you describe is impossible for a typical MiWay route. Maybe it can happen on 19 Hurontario which has 4-5 minute frequency, so if a bus falls 12-15 minutes behind, and the fourth bus is on time. But again, that would contradict your earlier claim of MiWay's poor frequencies.

Many routes have extra trips for the high school students in addition to regular trips, I think maybe you are confusing that with bunching.

In fact, the problem with MiWay is they are so paranoid about buses being late and bunching together that they pad the schedules to a ridiculous extent. As a result, the buses often have to layover in the middle of service and inconvenience riders because they are ahead of schedule.

In terms of reliability of service, I know of nothing that would make the situation in Mississauga any different than York Region. Both systems largely operate in mixed traffic instead of separate ROWs, and both Mississauga and York Region have similar amount of road traffic and congestion, that is the main factor affecting reliability. The only major difference affecting speed/reliability is possibly ridership. Buses in Mississauga are full, and so constantly have to stop let people on/off. Buses in York Region are empty in comparison, and so they don't have to stop as often, and perhaps for that reason it is easier for them stay on schedule.

2 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

Again, quality of service, not quantity.

Amount of service = quality of service. More service means higher frequencies, less crowded buses, more reliable, and so on.

[ngdvd]

1 hour ago, Xtrazsteve said:

First of all, I never said they shouldn't improve transit.

You are too pro transit. Miway can shut down tomorrow and only 5-10% of the population would be screwed. The number of bus riders compared to auto traffic on any 905 corridor is a big difference. You can ask the people in Mississauga why they'll never take MiWay. It just takes too long to get anywhere if you have to make a transfer or two. Honestly if all the 905 system (especially YRT) gave up, the cities would save a lot of money. Although, that would be bad for the future health of the city..

Percent of residents using transit to commute to work, 2011

Ottawa 22.4

Calgary 17.2

Mississauga 15.9

Edmonton 14.8

Quebec 14.6

Winnipeg 13.4

Halifax 12.5

Brampton 11.8

Hamilton 9.9

London 8.7

Kitchener 6.5

Source: Statistics Canada, 2011 Census of Population, National Household Survey

[Xtrazsteve]

1 minute ago, ngdvd said:

Percent of residents using transit to commute to work, 2011

Ottawa 22.4

Calgary 17.2

Mississauga 15.9

Edmonton 14.8

Quebec 14.6

Winnipeg 13.4

Halifax 12.5

Brampton 11.8

Hamilton 9.9

London 8.7

Kitchener 6.5

Source: 2011 Census Of Canada, National Household Survey

That would includes all the commuters using GO living in Mississauga (which is a large number) and people that have cars thus alternative options. You're right that more people would be screwed if Miway shutdown than any other other local 905 TA shut down.