TTC Service Changes

[H4 5600]

2 hours ago, lip said:

It was already basically a thing last year with the Bloor-Danforth line off-peak in the evenings. Heck i've seen it mid-day on the Yonge line as well, so i dont think it's an exaggeration at this point especially with John Tory's idiotic budget which should expose everything clearly soon enough.

Its still very common to wait 10+ minutes for a train on line 2 any time after about 8 pm. 

Whats even more annoying is waiting 10 minutes for a train at kipling, and then it finally comes but stops there for another 8-10 minutes.

[nfitz]

19 hours ago, H4 5600 said:

Its still very common to wait 10+ minutes for a train on line 2 any time after about 8 pm. 

I can't say I've observed this.

And it's certainly not scheduled - the worst scheduled on Line 2 is six minutes. I can't say I've seen worse than 7 or 8 minutes lately - and not frequently.

If we see 10 minutes, I'd think it would only be on Line 3 or 4 in late evening or some weekend periods.

[Articulated]

Line 4 currently operates every 5.5 minutes with 4 trainsets. It takes 22 minutes to do a round trip, so while it would be possible to drop down to 3 trainsets (at a frequency of about 7:20) it wouldn't be possible to go down to 2 trainsets as that would take the headway over the 10 minute mark.

Ridership-wise, rush hours are definitely too busy to reduce service. A reduction to 3 trainsets during evenings (say after 8pm) would be possible; middays are a maybe, depending on how deep Leary wants to gut subway service.

Line 3 is slightly longer in terms of run-time, so the same rough calculations would also apply there. I do think that during the late evenings (after 10-11pm) on Line 1 and 2 are where you'll see the decreases to 10 minutes, and from my own (not-infrequent) experiences, ridership during those times would allow for headways that wide, at least on Line 2. Of course, that is all subject to proper headway management in actually maintaining the scheduled 10 minute headway, which we know the TTC is largely incapable of doing these days.

[raptorjays]

On 1/7/2023 at 10:16 PM, lip said:

The TTC has to be the city department that uses resources in the most inefficient manner that i've ever seen in my life. They beg for money over and over again, but yet cant manage virtually anything properly.

But this is just part of Rick Leary's idiotic management style so it's not surprising. And yes having anything short of around ~4-5 buses sitting and doing absolute jack squat for at least 15 mins at Long Branch has been common place ever since 2020 since streetcars were suspended. I wouldnt be surprised if there were 10 buses laying over.

 

It was already basically a thing last year with the Bloor-Danforth line off-peak in the evenings. Heck i've seen it mid-day on the Yonge line as well, so i dont think it's an exaggeration at this point especially with John Tory's idiotic budget which should expose everything clearly soon enough.

I am wondering if we are going to see crappy service cuts like what Rob Ford did back in 2011.. Like some of the slow routes had the last bus at 8pm and etc. 

It looks absolutely horrendeous to ask people to pay more for shittier service

[Xtrazsteve]

56 minutes ago, raptorjays said:

I am wondering if we are going to see crappy service cuts like what Rob Ford did back in 2011.. Like some of the slow routes had the last bus at 8pm and etc. 

It looks absolutely horrendeous to ask people to pay more for shittier service

No one is funding them and inflation causes wages, fuel and parts to cost more. Farebox recovery is lower too.

[lip]

8 hours ago, raptorjays said:

I am wondering if we are going to see crappy service cuts like what Rob Ford did back in 2011.. Like some of the slow routes had the last bus at 8pm and etc. 

It looks absolutely horrendeous to ask people to pay more for shittier service

Well considering John Tory is an idiot and his only source of funding for the city is begging the provincial and federal governments for money, instead of increasing property taxes above the rate of inflation for once, it's looking pretty likely we'll see even more cuts then what we're already seeing.

[TransitMotorcoach]

On 1/7/2023 at 10:16 PM, lip said:

The TTC has to be the city department that uses resources in the most inefficient manner that i've ever seen in my life. They beg for money over and over again, but yet cant manage virtually anything properly.

But this is just part of Rick Leary's idiotic management style so it's not surprising. And yes having anything short of around ~4-5 buses sitting and doing absolute jack squat for at least 15 mins at Long Branch has been common place ever since 2020 since streetcars were suspended. I wouldnt be surprised if there were 10 buses laying over.

With the 501L buses scheduled according to streetcar timing standards, it is a very common occurrence for a 501L bus to run excessively ahead of schedule, on average 10 minutes ahead, and if the operator has a light load and smooth traffic conditions, it can get up go 20 minutes ahead, at which point it becomes necessary to pull over and hold for several minutes.

 

From the bus operator's perspective though, given the extremely tight schedules of regular bus routes, especially on weekends (*cough 66, 71, 80, 110, 111, 123, 900, cough *), the 501L is like a vacation, and a guarantee of a decent break at the end point. 

[Ed T.]

7 hours ago, TransitMotorcoach said:

With the 501L buses scheduled according to streetcar timing standards, it is a very common occurrence for a 501L bus to run excessively ahead of schedule, on average 10 minutes ahead, and if the operator has a light load and smooth traffic conditions, it can get up go 20 minutes ahead, at which point it becomes necessary to pull over and hold for several minutes.

When I see thirteen 501L laying over at Long Branch, that's a lot more than 20 minutes ahead. Assuming the buses are scheduled every 5 minutes (streetcar is usually 10, as far as I know), that's an hour's worth of buses plus one.

Of course some of those may be RADs. But more than five or six buses laying over should trigger someone in TTC management that something is wrong.

[Turtle]

20 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

When I see thirteen 501L laying over at Long Branch, that's a lot more than 20 minutes ahead. Assuming the buses are scheduled every 5 minutes (streetcar is usually 10, as far as I know), that's an hour's worth of buses plus one.

Of course some of those may be RADs. But more than five or six buses laying over should trigger someone in TTC management that something is wrong.

Not just scheduling of streetcar replacement buses, sometimes streetcar route diversions get way too much time. Take a look at the 504 from Broadview Station to Wolseley loop, they give 12 minutes for the streetcar to travel between Wolseley Loop and King. If they leave Wolseley Loop on time, they end up +8 at King and Bathurst before they even pick up their first passengers.

[lip]

42 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

When I see thirteen 501L laying over at Long Branch, that's a lot more than 20 minutes ahead. Assuming the buses are scheduled every 5 minutes (streetcar is usually 10, as far as I know), that's an hour's worth of buses plus one.

Of course some of those may be RADs. But more than five or six buses laying over should trigger someone in TTC management that something is wrong.

5-6 buses laying over should be enough to trigger TTC management to address the problem, let alone 9, 10, 11+ buses. And the fact that this has been occurring for over 2 years now is enough to let anyone know that management is inept and cant do their jobs and cant manage resources properly.

[smallspy]

10 hours ago, lip said:

Well considering John Tory is an idiot and his only source of funding for the city is begging the provincial and federal governments for money, instead of increasing property taxes above the rate of inflation for once, it's looking pretty likely we'll see even more cuts then what we're already seeing.

https://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-homeowners-will-face-biggest-property-tax-hike-since-amalgamation-1.6224291

 

How would you like your crow?

 

Dan

[nfitz]

1 hour ago, smallspy said:

https://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-homeowners-will-face-biggest-property-tax-hike-since-amalgamation-1.6224291

 

How would you like your crow?

 

Dan

5.5% increase is greater than inflation? The federal and provincial government both used about 6.3% this year to increase the tax brackets and credit.

And that's on the city budget, not on an individual tax bill, which always a bit less, once they account for the increase in the number of dwellings, etc. We won't see those numbers for months.

[Articulated]

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

5.5% increase is greater than inflation? The federal and provincial government both used about 6.3% this year to increase the tax brackets and credit.

And that's on the city budget, not on an individual tax bill, which always a bit less, once they account for the increase in the number of dwellings, etc. We won't see those numbers for months.

The 5.5% increase is on the standard budget; there is also a separate 1.5% increase in property taxes for the City Building fund. Therefore, the total increase that property owners will see is 7%, which is above inflation.

[nfitz]

4 hours ago, Articulated said:

The 5.5% increase is on the standard budget; there is also a separate 1.5% increase in property taxes for the City Building fund. Therefore, the total increase that property owners will see is 7%, which is above inflation.

We'll see where it really lands, when they actual numbers come out in Julyish.

The 1.5% is for capital works. It does nothing for operations. Even a 5.5% increase in the main budget, doesn't even cover inflation.

[81-717]

On 12/30/2022 at 6:32 PM, Kumiko Oumae said:

- 996 extended to Ellesmere Station, eliminating the 95C YORK MILLS branch.

What exactly is the point of introducing this 996 branch now if it'll only last less than a year before the SRT shuts down and Ellesmere station will no longer exist as a logical terminus for the service?

[bus_7246]

20 minutes ago, 81-717 said:

What exactly is the point of introducing this 996 branch now if it'll only last less than a year before the SRT shuts down and Ellesmere station will no longer exist as a logical terminus for the service?

The overpass will still exist. But after Ellesmere Stn closes, the TTC can just change the signage to say Kennedy, and still loop near the former station

[81-717]

1 hour ago, bus_7246 said:

The overpass will still exist. But after Ellesmere Stn closes, the TTC can just change the signage to say Kennedy, and still loop near the former station

Oh, I can't imagine for a second they would want to spend billions to level the overpasses & make the streets run level, while causing long-lasting massive disruptions in the process. But if this new branch is to become a thing, I do wonder if it would indeed make sense to have it terminate at a major destination, like STC or UTSC, as others have suggested.

[Kelvin3157]

6 minutes ago, 81-717 said:

Oh, I can't imagine for a second they would want to spend billions to level the overpasses & make the streets run level, while causing long-lasting massive disruptions in the process.

The Stouffville line runs under the overpass too…

[lip]

16 hours ago, smallspy said:

https://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-homeowners-will-face-biggest-property-tax-hike-since-amalgamation-1.6224291

 

How would you like your crow?

 

Dan

And how long has John Tory been mayor for, 8 years? And now this is the first time the budget MAY barely outstrip inflation? To the point that it still doesnt even come close to balancing things and doesnt address the last 7 consecutive years of below inflation property tax hikes.

No need for crow eating, the man doesnt know how to address the city's massive operational and structural decifits and the problem has been only getting worse thanks to his own doing.

[2822]

8 hours ago, lip said:

And how long has John Tory been mayor for, 8 years? And now this is the first time the budget MAY barely outstrip inflation? To the point that it still doesnt even come close to balancing things and doesnt address the last 7 consecutive years of below inflation property tax hikes.

No need for crow eating, the man doesnt know how to address the city's massive operational and structural decifits and the problem has been only getting worse thanks to his own doing.

If they cut back on hiring they could easily reduce the property tax increase. Possibly instead of hiring 200 officers maybe just hire 50-100. Same goes for ttc instead of hiring 50 special constables possibly just hire 20. This city is not fiscally responsible.

[MCIBUS]

Although some what off topic, but some what related to Toronto's operating budget, though I don't live in the GTA and know how it's run, what residence oif  Toronto don't realize, that certain parts of the on goings of Toronto service cost more then what they actually service. I work for the City of Ottawa, I work in operations of City pools, arena's, Community Centers & Library's. The cost running the cities pool's & arena's cost more to run then what the city brings in fees they charge for using the facilities. Now grant you I don't know Toronto services, Im guessing at leastthe poold & arena's don't make money.

 

For a either Ottawa and I'm guessing Toronto for the city to make profits in at least Pools & Arena's the fees they would need to charge so much that most residences can't pay or won't pay. The fees they'd charge ivc hockey organizations wou be so high that the orgab\nizationbs would need to charge parents $15,000/member to play.

There just certain things in city budgets, that they simply just don't make money but are need for communities. 

 

Like I said don't live in the GTA or Toronto, but working for the city I'm guessing Toronto is no different.

 

 

[T3G]

16 hours ago, bus_7246 said:

The overpass will still exist. But after Ellesmere Stn closes, the TTC can just change the signage to say Kennedy, and still loop near the former station

The overpass will still exist, but without a station there, you're just dumping people out of the bus under a bridge. It would be much more useful to extend the route to STC or Kennedy stations.

5 hours ago, 2822 said:

If they cut back on hiring they could easily reduce the property tax increase. Possibly instead of hiring 200 officers maybe just hire 50-100. Same goes for ttc instead of hiring 50 special constables possibly just hire 20. This city is not fiscally responsible.

On the safety issue their hands are pretty much tied though. You don't have enough safety officers and everyone starts pearl clutching about how they are risking their lives just by riding the train.

The real thing we should be focusing on is the management class. How much do they make, and how do we possibly justify that when the only noteworthy achievement the commission has had as a collective entity in the last half a decade is the restoration of 2252?

In '21, Leary alone earned $438k. What has he done to deserve that cool almost half a mil? Service is slower, worse, there's been no increases in rapid transit, there's been no indication that Leary has any interest in fighting for the betterment of the organization. The nicest thing you can say for him is that he's not alone in that boat, this is the case with basically every major organization these days. The executives hide away in their glass towers while the organization they are supposed to be in charge of burns.

[Kumiko Oumae]

Highlights for the February Service Changes (cuts won’t happen until March)

https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2023/02/20230212_servicechanges-2.pdf

Key changes:

- Line 2 gap trains now reduced to 2 with four trains stored at Christie and Chester pocket tracks 
- 7 gets all Artic runs so 89 can return to 40 foot runs (they have 35xx)
- 28 moves to Mount Dennis from Eglinton (Comstock) permanently interlining with the 14.
- 26 and 55, like 130/132, will interline at all times.
- 45/945 gets a fix due to Line 6 construction 
- 924 receives a 3:10 pm tripper from Milne Valley MS inherited from the 91
- 337 northern terminus changed to operate clockwise
- 504A will operate Distllery-Exhibition, 504B will also operate Broadview-Wolsey while 504C bus restores services to Roncy.

[WoodbineSecondExit]

On 11/13/2022 at 6:08 PM, WoodbineSecondExit said:

Are they digging new underground conduits for traction power? Are they replacing every traction power pole? What's the story with that? Streetcar division is the height of incompetence at the TTC but even those fools can replace more than 100 feet of overhead per day, right?

 

On 11/13/2022 at 6:44 PM, Bus_Medic said:

Need a hug?

 

On 11/13/2022 at 7:11 PM, WoodbineSecondExit said:

You would need one too if you had to regularly use the streetcar system in this city.

I looked over the changes for the next board period posted over at Munro's blog and made note of the new projected completion date for the Kingston Rd overhead upgrades. It now shows as May 2023. It's 3 km from Queen to Victoria Park and it's forecast to drag on for 6 months.

While I would like to say I'm surprised I'd be lying if I did. I was clearly overestimating the Toronto Trash Commission when I thought they could replace 100 feet of overhead per day. Maybe they'll manage 60 feet per day and make the new date? On the other hand, the overhead conversion project is almost 7 years behind schedule for a reason.

Place your bets now!

[Shaun]

On 1/12/2023 at 9:49 AM, 2822 said:

If they cut back on hiring they could easily reduce the property tax increase. Possibly instead of hiring 200 officers maybe just hire 50-100. Same goes for ttc instead of hiring 50 special constables possibly just hire 20. This city is not fiscally responsible.

You do realize that we let go some special constables because they beat the crap out of random passengers.  They do not have the proper training not the proper authority to do their job.  

What we do need in the city is better support for mental illness and drug addiction, as well as Homelessness.