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TTC Service Changes


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2 hours ago, bus_7246 said:

I sure hope they don’t put money into the Sheppard East line. 

It's all surface - and now only would only run east of Sheppard East station at McCowan. Don't forget the province has already promised to extend the Sheppard subway east to McCowan to intersect the Line 2 extension.

Current city plan is to build the Eglinton Line 5 extension up to Sheppard and Morningside (and possibly with a stub to Malvern), and then head west on Sheppard to McCowan!

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4 hours ago, bus_7246 said:

I sure hope they don’t put money into the Sheppard East line. That’s more money wasted since that section of Sheppard is no where near as busy as Jane

Good thing they reallocated the original federal share to Finch West. Those Scarborough folks complain too much and I hope they are satisfied they got nothing after a decade and nothing for the next decade too.

 Keep enjoying the Sheppard highway!

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6 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

The problem with Dufferin is the street is so narrow that most of the rail line if it ever gets built would be underground. Pretty much would be a subway versus LRT or streetcar with the cost of tunnelling underground expensive along with the planning required such as underground utilities and acquiring properties. 

I remember reading the stories of how unreliable 29 Dufferin that assigning articulated buses was supposed to improve with higher capacity using less vehicles. Right now the current plan is building transit priority lanes along select corridors such as Dufferin and Jane in the short-term. 

I remember when Don Mills LRT was proposed which is now merged into the Ontario Line if that ever gets built of course.

I understand Dufferin isn't the best street for a surface LRT or streetcar but it honestly looks to be the only possible solution at this point. I mean, what else can be done? The TTC woefully misjudged just how important Dufferin would become. This is seen by the fact that Dufferin station was built without a proper bus station. Because of this little short sighted mistake, it's a lot harder to run service from and to Dufferin station. If a LRT or a streetcar (which i lean closer towards due to the trackage already in place from Queen to Exhibition) were to exist, i imagine it'd run from Exhibition (connecting to Line 3 Ontario and GO) to Fairbank Station via Dufferin Station (connecting to Line 5). From there, the 29 Dufferin would run from Fairbank to Wilson or maybe even through Wilson and onto Sheppard West where a possible future line 4 extension could connect to in addition to the connection to the University subway. Im sure some kind of solution could be made for this in terms of street real estate. They could go for a St Clair esque line or a Cherry Street/Harbourfront esque line with the tracks of to one side. 

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11 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The reshuffle was planned way before. Probably 2018/19. They probably expect the be artics to arrive by now or early next year. Instead now, they would arrive in 2023 or beyond. By then, Finch West Line would be done and there artics from the 36 would be freed.

Irregardless of how early it was planned, it's been understood that the particular changes for 35, 935 and 927 were so that these routes would get access to the large number of Artics that will be deployed from here. Logistically, it wouldn't have otherwise made sense to swap 927. Of course it was swapped back but again, that was due to the unreliability of the older buses on the route. Additionally, in order for 35 and 935 to get to Mount Dennis, 71 and 89 were oddly moved to Queensway and Wilson and 52 got Arrow, none of which logistically make a ton of sense but do make sense when you consider the seemingly certain future conversion of Jane and Hwy 27 to Articulated buses. As for the Arrow Artics, im not sure what the plan will be from there. No other route out of Arrow uses Artics currently. Perhaps these units will be moved to other garages throughout the city to supplement other routes that need them or an Arrow route will get converted like perhaps 52 or something. I think the plan always was, order in 2021, receive deliveries in q3 or q4 2022. I would hope the supply shortages haven't effected the nominated manufacturer too much

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4 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Good thing they reallocated the original federal share to Finch West. Those Scarborough folks complain too much and I hope they are satisfied they got nothing after a decade and nothing for the next decade too.

 Keep enjoying the Sheppard highway!

Stop blaming Scarborough residents, when it's clearly the politicians fault! 

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1 hour ago, lifty4ever said:

They could go for a St Clair esque line or a Cherry Street/Harbourfront esque line with the tracks of to one side. 

A problem with that...

St. Clair was a much wider street than Dufferin south of Eglinton, thus the ROW project could go ahead while still preserving a significant amount of traffic lanes. Of course, there's nothing to say that the TTC couldn't just plop streetcar tracks down the center lanes of Dufferin and paint transit only lanes and be done with it, but this is a non starter outside of Europe. You've seen the temper tantrums community organizations such as Save Our St. Clair threw. Proposing the reduction of Dufferin to one lane each way would be political suicide.

As for tracks to one side, the reason they could get away with doing that on Cherry Street is because there was nothing there in the first place, so they could build as wide as they wanted to. And such an arrangement on Dufferin would cause the same problem as described above, only shifting the location of the lanes.

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2 hours ago, MRD10 said:

Stop blaming Scarborough residents, when it's clearly the politicians fault! 

A portion of Scarborough residents, unfortunately mostly the richer population were all telling the politicians to build a subway and keep their SUVs moving. Most immigrant from East Asia where subways dominates would prefer subway. 

 

2 hours ago, T3G said:

A problem with that...

St. Clair was a much wider street than Dufferin south of Eglinton, thus the ROW project could go ahead while still preserving a significant amount of traffic lanes. Of course, there's nothing to say that the TTC couldn't just plop streetcar tracks down the center lanes of Dufferin and paint transit only lanes and be done with it, but this is a non starter outside of Europe. You've seen the temper tantrums community organizations such as Save Our St. Clair threw. Proposing the reduction of Dufferin to one lane each way would be political suicide.

As for tracks to one side, the reason they could get away with doing that on Cherry Street is because there was nothing there in the first place, so they could build as wide as they wanted to. And such an arrangement on Dufferin would cause the same problem as described above, only shifting the location of the lanes.

Back in the days, they could just buy out one side of the street and just expand the roadway. Rows of houses were bought out and demolished for Yonge and B-D. Now housing has rose too much making that unaffordable. Plus people are more outspoken now.

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4 hours ago, T3G said:

A problem with that...

St. Clair was a much wider street than Dufferin south of Eglinton, thus the ROW project could go ahead while still preserving a significant amount of traffic lanes. Of course, there's nothing to say that the TTC couldn't just plop streetcar tracks down the center lanes of Dufferin and paint transit only lanes and be done with it, but this is a non starter outside of Europe. You've seen the temper tantrums community organizations such as Save Our St. Clair threw. Proposing the reduction of Dufferin to one lane each way would be political suicide.

As for tracks to one side, the reason they could get away with doing that on Cherry Street is because there was nothing there in the first place, so they could build as wide as they wanted to. And such an arrangement on Dufferin would cause the same problem as described above, only shifting the location of the lanes.

Im sure some modifications could be made to make Dufferin street a little wider like they did with St Clair. 

4 hours ago, bus_7246 said:

If Arrow Rd keeps the 927, they could readily redeploy the artics to that route. Platform reallocation at Kipling Stn would be in order, but it seems viable. The surplus of buses could get sent to Mt Dennis

A fair point though it makes you wonder why they reassigned 927 to Mount Dennis at all. Maybe they had to shuffle it to set things up for McNicoll but still. All we know is the quick switch back was due to the older Orion buses having woeful reliability especially in their age. I don't actually know where the 927 stops at at Kipling today but perhaps. 

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3 hours ago, lifty4ever said:

A fair point though it makes you wonder why they reassigned 927 to Mount Dennis at all. Maybe they had to shuffle it to set things up for McNicoll but still. All we know is the quick switch back was due to the older Orion buses having woeful reliability especially in their age. I don't actually know where the 927 stops at at Kipling today but perhaps. 

The 927(former 191) and 45 swap bus bays a few years back when they expanded the bus terminal a decade ago.(I can't believe it's been that long already). The newer bus bay currently used by the 945 is the only one that supports artics bus.

The Kipling terminal layout goes like

West end    |    111   |   112   |   123   |   900   |   40/49   |   44/944   |   927   |     46      |     45           |   945   |   East End

The former allocation was something like this

West end    |    111   |   112   |   123   |    49   |     44       |    45E        |   45     |   30/46   |   191/192   |   East End

Note that the 900 is the closest to the elevator and 945 is peak service only leaving it empty most of the time. They are placed at optimal locations. 

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5 hours ago, lifty4ever said:

Im sure some modifications could be made to make Dufferin street a little wider like they did with St Clair. 

Except that's not what they did with St. Clair - at least, not fundamentally. The ROW project did involve the narrowing of some sidewalks (much to the chagrin of Save Our St. Clair and their ilk), but it was a wider street from the outset - refer to the attached picture looking eastbound at Atlas Avenue in September 2007, before the ROW project reached this far west. It had three lanes in each direction, so dropping in the ROW and eliminating on-street parking yields you the same amount of lanes as on Dufferin, or any of the downtown streetcar streets.

image.thumb.png.a48f3a228a3c912ae28195a46e80a46d.png

Just how exactly are they supposed to "make" Dufferin Street wider? Evicting thousands of people and building the widened street over the remains of their homes? People would be outraged at such an idea, and rightfully so - imagine being told to pack up and leave because we don't have the stones to stand up to self-interested motorists.

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11 hours ago, T3G said:

Except that's not what they did with St. Clair - at least, not fundamentally. The ROW project did involve the narrowing of some sidewalks (much to the chagrin of Save Our St. Clair and their ilk), but it was a wider street from the outset - refer to the attached picture looking eastbound at Atlas Avenue in September 2007, before the ROW project reached this far west. It had three lanes in each direction, so dropping in the ROW and eliminating on-street parking yields you the same amount of lanes as on Dufferin, or any of the downtown streetcar streets.

image.thumb.png.a48f3a228a3c912ae28195a46e80a46d.png

Just how exactly are they supposed to "make" Dufferin Street wider? Evicting thousands of people and building the widened street over the remains of their homes? People would be outraged at such an idea, and rightfully so - imagine being told to pack up and leave because we don't have the stones to stand up to self-interested motorists.

The narrowing of the sidewalks was done to widen the street somewhat. It would not be impossible to widen Dufferin street in a similar manner and nor would be inconceivable to find a solution. Yes, St Clair may've been wider from the offset but modifications have been done to suit Streetcar lines. Look at Roncesvalles for example. They could also pick out certain sections of Dufferin and make a King Street pilot esque ROW. The possibilities are endless

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Phew, glad to see the routes I take are not affected at least officially, aside maybe from the minor change to the BD line. Shouldn't affect me too much I don't think, it's lightly loaded as is at the times I travel.

Who knows how it will actually work out in practice.

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89 going artic again at least to some extent. Not at all what i expected. And not a god damned thing whatsoever for 35 or 935. Exactly what i expected. No increase or decrease. Just continuing hell and suffering and chaos. I still hold belief salvation for Jane will come but until then..... Grumble grumble....

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20 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The 927(former 191) and 45 swap bus bays a few years back when they expanded the bus terminal a decade ago.(I can't believe it's been that long already). The newer bus bay currently used by the 945 is the only one that supports artics bus.

The Kipling terminal layout goes like

West end    |    111   |   112   |   123   |   900   |   40/49   |   44/944   |   927   |     46      |     45           |   945   |   East End

The former allocation was something like this

West end    |    111   |   112   |   123   |    49   |     44       |    45E        |   45     |   30/46   |   191/192   |   East End

Note that the 900 is the closest to the elevator and 945 is peak service only leaving it empty most of the time. They are placed at optimal locations. 

On the topic of the bus bay layout, I remember many eons ago that there have been bus bay changes in various stations over the years that can support artics or not.

KENNEDY

Layout as of 2021:

                         Unloading
      21/43B/903 |              | 20/113/300B
43AC/943/343 |              | 86
 34/334-W/175 |              | 905/986/334-E
                12/57 |              | 116 
                       Wheel-Trans

Previously in 2008:

                      Unloading
      34-E/116 |              | 12A/20/116E
                 86 |              | 43
            34-W |              | 57
        12B/113 |              | 21/131E
                    Wheel-Trans

SCARBOROUGH CENTRE

If anyone remembers the layout for the STC terminal between 1985-2004, let me know.

Current layout

      North |    21-N    |   939AB   |      129     | (E) |    985    | null  |  134/913  | North | GO

South | 130/169 | 43B/132 | 21-S/903 |  9  | (E) | 16/WT | 131 | 133 | 38/938 | South | GO

 

Layout in 2006

      North |     130     |     134     |      129     | (E) |    21-B    | 169  |   190  | North | GO

South |   null   | 43B/132 | 21-S/131E |  9  | (E) | 16/WT | 131 | 133 | 38 | South | GO

 

WARDEN

Current bus bay layout
 

| Line 2    
——
| 68/968
——
| 69A/135
——
| 69B/70C
——
| 16
——
| 902
——
| 102
——
| 9
——
| 17

 

In 1979-80, the bays went like this:
 

| 20A/69
——
| 70
——
| 68
——
| 16
——
| 57
——
| 17
——
| 86/102 
——
| 21
——
| 43

 

It’s unknown which bay did the 114 KINGSTON RD EAST ended up but I don’t remember the location on the old maps on my visit back in 2008. 
 

| null
——
| 70C
——
| 68
——
| 69A/135
——
| 69B
——
| 16
——
| 102
——
| 9
——
| 17

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17 hours ago, MK78 said:

Phew, glad to see the routes I take are not affected at least officially, aside maybe from the minor change to the BD line. Shouldn't affect me too much I don't think, it's lightly loaded as is at the times I travel.

Who knows how it will actually work out in practice.

I'm on the opposite end of you that all of the bus routes I use are affected.

I use 50 Burnhamthorpe to get to Islington Station... but I often takes 49 Bloor West as well since 50 has 30 minute headway during the day while 49 has 15 minute.. now both of them have 30 minute headway outside of the rush hour....

Also it is pathetic to see the morning headway of 50 was increased to close to 20 minute... which is pretty bad... The bus gets pretty crowded..

Plus... the reduction on BD line.. WTF??

I don't know why the riders should be penalized because the workers are not vaccinated.. 

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36 minutes ago, raptorjays said:

I don't know why the riders should be penalized because the workers are not vaccinated.. 

Do we want operators who think it's okay to simply ignore basic health and safety guidance? The mandate ironically rids TTC of those who put themselves ahead of H&S.

They'll hire new operators fast enough - and best of all, more will vaccinate once they see that TTC is serious (if they are ...)

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4 hours ago, T3G said:

I shouldn't share your optimism. Hasn't the TTC been struggling to hire enough new personnel for years?

Even if they filled every vacancy today, It would be 25 days at the soonest even if they could train everyone simultaneously, starting tomorrow.

Even anti vaxxers aside, there’s been a mass exodus across all departments and tiers of virtually everyone eligible, or even remotely close to retirement since the pandemic began because…well, the evidence the media keeps digging up speaks for itself.
 

“The great resignation” had an impact here, too.

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19 minutes ago, Bus_Medic said:

Even if they filled every vacancy today, It would be 25 days at the soonest even if they could train everyone simultaneously, starting tomorrow.

Even anti vaxxers aside, there’s been a mass exodus across all departments and tiers of virtually everyone eligible, or even remotely close to retirement since the pandemic began because…well, the evidence the media keeps digging up speaks for itself.
 

“The great resignation” had an impact here, too.

And Steve Munro is speculating that the TTC is trying to cover the fact that they are cutting the budget by blaming unvaccinated workers for this service cut

I think if this kind of cut last well into next spring. I really think this is a matter of a budget cut rather than a worker shortage. 

On 11/15/2021 at 8:30 PM, TTC7447 said:

Service Changes Effective November 21, 2021
The long-awaited details of service cuts, plus holiday service details, among other things.

And am I the only one who think that the service cut is much deeper than we anticipated? Because of that, I think they are trying to cover up the budget cut by blaming the workers unvaccinated. 

https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2021/11/20211121servicechanges.pdf

They said that the changes will be minor and similar to summer schedule... and there are several routes which is even beyond the summer level cuts..

For example, 49 Bloor West ran every 15 minute during the weekdays even in the summer season... 

and now it is running every 30 minute.. 50% cuts... never seen that kind of headways.. 

48 Rathburn, 49 Bloor West, and 50 Burnhamthorpe are those which is probably the most impacted... 

also I've never seen BD line running 8 minute per train overnight since I came to Toronto. 

 

Btw, this kind of cuts happen when any of the Ford families are on the helm..

remember when Doug Ford was a mayor?? some of the routes didn't have service after 7pm or 8pm... 

 

TTC = idiot.... 

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We'll see if there's any serious intent for actual budget cuts when they start discussing the 2022 budget. I doubt it, personally. Though I'm sure they'll be somewhat hampered by the same long-term employment issues that seem to be in all sorts of places these days. And I'm sure they'll get it resolved - as they've done before.

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19 hours ago, nfitz said:

They'll hire new operators fast enough - and best of all, more will vaccinate once they see that TTC is serious (if they are ...)

Man, I was on a "trainee run" this morning. It was 10 minutes late to my stop, and a full 20 minutes late at the destination stop. I think she was topping out at 35-40km/h at the most.

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18 hours ago, raptorjays said:

And Steve Munro is speculating that the TTC is trying to cover the fact that they are cutting the budget by blaming unvaccinated workers for this service cut

I think if this kind of cut last well into next spring. I really think this is a matter of a budget cut rather than a worker shortage. 

And am I the only one who think that the service cut is much deeper than we anticipated? Because of that, I think they are trying to cover up the budget cut by blaming the workers unvaccinated. 

https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2021/11/20211121servicechanges.pdf

They said that the changes will be minor and similar to summer schedule... and there are several routes which is even beyond the summer level cuts..

For example, 49 Bloor West ran every 15 minute during the weekdays even in the summer season... 

and now it is running every 30 minute.. 50% cuts... never seen that kind of headways.. 

48 Rathburn, 49 Bloor West, and 50 Burnhamthorpe are those which is probably the most impacted... 

also I've never seen BD line running 8 minute per train overnight since I came to Toronto. 

 

Btw, this kind of cuts happen when any of the Ford families are on the helm..

remember when Doug Ford was a mayor?? some of the routes didn't have service after 7pm or 8pm... 

 

TTC = idiot.... 

Reading between the lines, I’m inclined to agree.

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