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2 hours ago, nfitz said:

The travel patterns don't support a 2-km extension to Birchmount?

The travel patterns on Kingston Road are that people are predominantly trying to head north, not west. Thus a continuous east-west route on Kingston Road wouldn't help as people aren't going to take it.

 

Dan

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7 minutes ago, smallspy said:

The travel patterns on Kingston Road are that people are predominantly trying to head north, not west. Thus a continuous east-west route on Kingston Road wouldn't help as people aren't going to take it.

By that argument, continuous service shouldn't exist along Gerrard either, the further east you get.

There's been calls for more continuity of service on Kingston Road for years. Not everyone is trying to get further north. Both needed.

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21 hours ago, nfitz said:

There's been calls for more continuity of service on Kingston Road for years. Not everyone is trying to get further north. Both needed.

And yet, when it has been implemented in the past, the route has not had a high-enough level of ridership to justify it.

 

So which is it then?


Dan

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8 minutes ago, smallspy said:

And yet, when it has been implemented in the past, the route has not had a high-enough level of ridership to justify it.

I haven't seen any service like that in the 15-years I've lived in the neighbourhood. I'm not aware of any service to Birchmount since 1954, and that was more of a function of politics, and the increased fare (fare zone) that was then necessary east of Victoria Park!

When was there continuous service on Kingston Road from Queen to Birchmount? I'm intrigued that there's a history here, I'm ignorant of!

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This may interest some peeps here. The 5 year plan from the board meeting

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2019/December_12/Reports/16_5_Year_Service_Plan_and_10_Year_Outlook.pdf

Lots of stuff to read, digest, approve or whine about.

Suggested service changes:
2020:
Reallocate resources and discontinue 365 Parliament Blue Night due to poor ridership
An extension of 339 Finch East Blue Night to Tapscott Employment District
Remove artics from the 41 Keele and deploy elsewhere with a possibility of cutting to Finch West once Finch West LRT opens
Change to community routes

2021:
New express service on 68 Warden, 43 Kennedy and 32 Eglinton West (from Mt Dennis Stn westward)
Extend the 954 west to Don Mills
Extend the 905 to service the 116A area like the 116E once did.
New service to Stanley Greene neighbourhood (keele/Wilson area)
Consultation on Scarborough East area (2020) and implement route changes (2021)

New streetcars arriving 2022-2024

Note: It explicitly mentions that no improvements will occur if Line 5 does not open in 2021.

What is not recommended. I'm not going to type it all but here is a few points.

Through service through Bathurst station
Express bus on Birchmount
Discontinuing the 924 on VP
Express service on Finch west of Finch West Stn

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11 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

This may interest some peeps here. The 5 year plan from the board meeting

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2019/December_12/Reports/16_5_Year_Service_Plan_and_10_Year_Outlook.pdf

Lots of stuff to read, digest, approve or whine about.

Suggested service changes:
2020:
Reallocate resources and discontinue 365 Parliament Blue Night due to poor ridership
An extension of 339 Finch East Blue Night to Tapscott Employment District
Remove artics from the 41 Keele and deploy elsewhere with a possibility of cutting to Finch West once Finch West LRT opens
Change to community routes

2021:
New express service on 68 Warden, 43 Kennedy and 32 Eglinton West (from Mt Dennis Stn westward)
Extend the 954 west to Don Mills
Extend the 905 to service the 116A area like the 116E once did.
New service to Stanley Greene neighbourhood (keele/Wilson area)
Consultation on Scarborough East area (2020) and implement route changes (2021)

New streetcars arriving 2022-2024

Note: It explicitly mentions that no improvements will occur if Line 5 does not open in 2021.

What is not recommended. I'm not going to type it all but here is a few points.

Through service through Bathurst station
Express bus on Birchmount
Discontinuing the 924 on VP
Express service on Finch west of Finch West Stn

I honestly think that Malvern should get the 20 or so Artics that are being taken off of the 41 in 2020 so that the 39/939 can get Artics. Then, in return Mount Dennis can get 30 NG HEVs from Malvern.

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16 minutes ago, Shemar said:

I honestly think that Malvern should get the 20 or so Artics that are being taken off of the 41 in 2020 so that the 39/939 can get Artics. Then, in return Mount Dennis can get 30 NG HEVs from Malvern.

I don't think that will happen. They'll probably end up on Jane. The 41 only runs with 12 artics which won't work on the 39/939. They'll need a new batch.

MtD has more artic hoists and it makes sense a bigger fleet stays there.

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17 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

This may interest some peeps here. The 5 year plan from the board meeting

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2019/December_12/Reports/16_5_Year_Service_Plan_and_10_Year_Outlook.pdf

Lots of stuff to read, digest, approve or whine about.

Suggested service changes:
2020:
Reallocate resources and discontinue 365 Parliament Blue Night due to poor ridership
An extension of 339 Finch East Blue Night to Tapscott Employment District
Remove artics from the 41 Keele and deploy elsewhere with a possibility of cutting to Finch West once Finch West LRT opens
Change to community routes

2021:
New express service on 68 Warden, 43 Kennedy and 32 Eglinton West (from Mt Dennis Stn westward)
Extend the 954 west to Don Mills
Extend the 905 to service the 116A area like the 116E once did.
New service to Stanley Greene neighbourhood (keele/Wilson area)
Consultation on Scarborough East area (2020) and implement route changes (2021)

New streetcars arriving 2022-2024

Note: It explicitly mentions that no improvements will occur if Line 5 does not open in 2021.

What is not recommended. I'm not going to type it all but here is a few points.

Through service through Bathurst station
Express bus on Birchmount
Discontinuing the 924 on VP
Express service on Finch west of Finch West Stn

I have a feeling that Line 5 won’t open September 2021 because if you look at the photos that Metrolinx posts on Instagram they haven’t even started concrete pours at some stations

As for the new streetcars will there be enough for Waterfront East and West LRT projects including Quayside(the neighbourhood that google is help build) end bustition on 502/503/511 and service increases on other routes?

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17 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

This may interest some peeps here. The 5 year plan from the board meeting

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2019/December_12/Reports/16_5_Year_Service_Plan_and_10_Year_Outlook.pdf

Lots of stuff to read, digest, approve or whine about.

Suggested service changes:
2020:
Reallocate resources and discontinue 365 Parliament Blue Night due to poor ridership
An extension of 339 Finch East Blue Night to Tapscott Employment District
Remove artics from the 41 Keele and deploy elsewhere with a possibility of cutting to Finch West once Finch West LRT opens
Change to community routes

2021:
New express service on 68 Warden, 43 Kennedy and 32 Eglinton West (from Mt Dennis Stn westward)
Extend the 954 west to Don Mills
Extend the 905 to service the 116A area like the 116E once did.
New service to Stanley Greene neighbourhood (keele/Wilson area)
Consultation on Scarborough East area (2020) and implement route changes (2021)

New streetcars arriving 2022-2024

Note: It explicitly mentions that no improvements will occur if Line 5 does not open in 2021.

What is not recommended. I'm not going to type it all but here is a few points.

Through service through Bathurst station
Express bus on Birchmount
Discontinuing the 924 on VP
Express service on Finch west of Finch West Stn

You also forget to mention this:
"Review the feasibility of creating bus routes that connect local neighbourhood destinations. Communities, especially NIAs, are heavily dependent on buses. Create bus routes that connect local neighbourhood destinations and places where communities gather (e.g. local libraries, community centres, grocery stores, Boys & Girls Club, etc.)"

Quote

Frequently used destinations, including libraries and community centres, tend to have higher levels of ridership and therefore already receive more frequent levels of transit service. To promote fairness, access and opportunities for all, TTC will implement two new policies as part of the 5-Year Service Plan & 10- Year Outlook. In 2020, we will implement an equity focused consultation process for major service changes to ensure negative equity impacts are minimized. Between 2021 and 2024, we will pilot new services in Neighbourhood Improvement Areas for customers who need our services the most.

My take: Perhaps the TTC should restore some routes that were cut in February 1996: 19 CHURCH, 66 PRINCE EDWARD to Dundas, 163 RUSTIC ROAD, and the 48 RATHBURN extension to Sherway Gardens. The TTC should do trial on those routes to see how it goes.

And this review makes no mention of the proposed service on Brimorton Dr.

If Malvern would take over the 905 EGLINTON EAST EXPRESS instead of Birchmount, the 116A/905 combination can replicate service what the 116A/E used to do: Express eastbound to 3pm, local westbound. After 3pm its 116A local EB, 905 Express WB. But these will retain the 905's existing hours to 10pm weekdays and 7pm weekends.

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46 minutes ago, Express Network said:

You also forget to mention this:
"Review the feasibility of creating bus routes that connect local neighbourhood destinations. Communities, especially NIAs, are heavily dependent on buses. Create bus routes that connect local neighbourhood destinations and places where communities gather (e.g. local libraries, community centres, grocery stores, Boys & Girls Club, etc.)"

My take: Perhaps the TTC should restore some routes that were cut in February 1996: 19 CHURCH, 66 PRINCE EDWARD to Dundas, 163 RUSTIC ROAD, and the 48 RATHBURN extension to Sherway Gardens. The TTC should do trial on those routes to see how it goes.

And this review makes no mention of the proposed service on Brimorton Dr.

If Malvern would take over the 905 EGLINTON EAST EXPRESS instead of Birchmount, the 116A/905 combination can replicate service what the 116A/E used to do: Express eastbound to 3pm, local westbound. After 3pm its 116A local EB, 905 Express WB. But these will retain the 905's existing hours to 10pm weekdays and 7pm weekends.

What exactly is important along those old routes you mention that is worth restoring? It was suggested they create more routes similar to community bus routes, not restore poorly utilized services. I fail to see a single library, grocery or community centre on the old 66 north of Bloor. Hence why it was a poor performer in the first place. Better off finding the fantasy route thread.

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On 12/3/2019 at 1:51 PM, nfitz said:

There's been calls for more continuity of service on Kingston Road for years. Not everyone is trying to get further north. Both needed.

In the report it mentions "Improvements for Kingston Road", when talking about the general area of Morningside/Lawrence... I hope that means increasing service on 12D, or creating a new route that connects this area to the Bingham loop, or like I have wished, a continuous route on Kingston road from Morningside to Queen/Coxwell, or even a loop thru Eastern, Leslie and back up Kingston, and scrapping the 502/503 streetcar routes

For as long as Kingston road is, the bus service along is pretty terrible if that's how you want to travel. The 12D has helped, but its infrequent and only peak hours.

Quote

The 5-Year Service Plan & 10-Year Outlook outlines an initial service concept for Scarborough East which includes Lawrence Avenue East and Ellesmere Road around Morningside Avenue. The service concept looks to better tailor service to community needs by proposing routing changes, improving the frequency on Lawrence Avenue East, improving express service and improving service on Kingston Road. The changes are slated for 2021 subject to approval of the 2021 Annual Service Plan and 2021 Operating Budget.

 

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1 hour ago, Xtrazsteve said:

What exactly is important along those old routes you mention that is worth restoring? It was suggested they create more routes similar to community bus routes, not restore poorly utilized services. I fail to see a single library, grocery or community centre on the old 66 north of Bloor. Hence why it was a poor performer in the first place. Better off finding the fantasy route thread.

Exactly, even the area on Mill Road between Rathburn and Markland Wood, Neilson and Richshaw has no direct bus service there at all since the 2A was axed. The 66 north of Bloor would've done a trial period since there's condos built on Prince Edward/Dundas and people are currently taking the 40A to get to Lambton-Kingsway JMS or Lambton Kingsway Park.

In the topic of trial periods, the TTC could

Even the 365 PARLIAMENT BLUE NIGHT is slated to be canned, why not have the TTC create the 372 PAPE BLUE NIGHT bus to serve the Waterfront communities? The route would follow the 72B except the Queen-Pape-Carlaw southbound routing to Cherry Street and continues to the 121A routing.

1 hour ago, MK78 said:

In the report it mentions "Improvements for Kingston Road", when talking about the general area of Morningside/Lawrence... I hope that means increasing service on 12D, or creating a new route that connects this area to the Bingham loop, or like I have wished, a continuous route on Kingston road from Morningside to Queen/Coxwell, or even a loop thru Eastern, Leslie and back up Kingston, and scrapping the 502/503 streetcar routes

For as long as Kingston road is, the bus service along is pretty terrible if that's how you want to travel. The 12D has helped, but its infrequent and only peak hours.

 

If they were to do that, the 22A could also be killed off on the weekends. Unless the TTC could extend the streetcar tracks beyond Bingham Loop to the Zoo.

 

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11 hours ago, Express Network said:

Even the 365 PARLIAMENT BLUE NIGHT is slated to be canned, why not have the TTC create the 372 PAPE BLUE NIGHT bus to serve the Waterfront communities? The route would follow the 72B except the Queen-Pape-Carlaw southbound routing to Cherry Street and continues to the 121A routing

Remember the 325 Don Mills Blue Night already covers the 72A routing on Pape. It might not be feasible to have a overnight route to serve the waterfront communities if not a significant amount of riders are going to use it. It would just be a waste of money if that was the case.

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11 hours ago, Express Network said:

If they were to do that, the 22A could also be killed off on the weekends. Unless the TTC could extend the streetcar tracks beyond Bingham Loop to the Zoo.

Yeah the 22A could very well be killed off if there was a continuous route on Kingston. But running new tracks anywhere? Fat chance. Look what a fustercluck it has been to procure new streetcars for the existing routes. They're not expanding the streetcar network anywhere.

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14 hours ago, MK78 said:

In the report it mentions "Improvements for Kingston Road", when talking about the general area of Morningside/Lawrence... I hope that means increasing service on 12D, or creating a new route that connects this area to the Bingham loop, or like I have wished, a continuous route on Kingston road from Morningside to Queen/Coxwell, or even a loop thru Eastern, Leslie and back up Kingston, and scrapping the 502/503 streetcar routes

The improvements that they are suggesting have more to do with the LRT being built in the area of Morningside and Lawrence, methinks.

 

14 hours ago, MK78 said:

For as long as Kingston road is, the bus service along is pretty terrible if that's how you want to travel. The 12D has helped, but its infrequent and only peak hours.

And once again.......for every complaint like this that exists, there aren't the rides to back it up.

 

The TTC has routes that ran along Kingston out to Lawrence and beyond - and they always keep getting cut. Look up the 114, or the old 12C. Even the ridership on the current 12D isn't terrific. Why do you think that is?

 

Dan

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I think by the time the LRT opens east of Kennedy is gonna be another 10 years if we're lucky. Look how long the current eglinton project is taking. So talking about improvements in that area in 2021 is probably not that.

Well, they didn't cancel 12D after the 1 year pilot, so that must mean something. I for one am very glad. I take it to work in the morning and much prefer it over the subway, (Combining 12D with 503) the morning trip lines up with my schedule. But if I miss the bus, i can't wait for the next one because it's not frequent enough, i have to go back to 86/116, L2, then 31.

In the afternoons I don't take it because I often finish before the route starts up at ~3pm going east, and even if I do, it's just loaded with annoying screaming teenagers from the two schools at Vic Park & Kingston. Sanity over convenience. :)

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16 hours ago, MK78 said:

In the report it mentions "Improvements for Kingston Road", when talking about the general area of Morningside/Lawrence... I hope that means increasing service on 12D, or creating a new route that connects this area to the Bingham loop, or like I have wished, a continuous route on Kingston road from Morningside to Queen/Coxwell, or even a loop thru Eastern, Leslie and back up Kingston, and scrapping the 502/503 streetcar routes

For as long as Kingston road is, the bus service along is pretty terrible if that's how you want to travel. The 12D has helped, but its infrequent and only peak hours.

 

On page 37 of Attachment 2 (page 51 of the PDF) there was a request for continuous service on Kingston Rd from Woodbine to Eglinton. It was not recommended as there is not enough demand for the service.

2 hours ago, smallspy said:

The improvements that they are suggesting have more to do with the LRT being built in the area of Morningside and Lawrence, methinks.

Dan

I think the improvements to Kingston Rd they are talking about is the proposed rerouting of 116 along Kingston Rd instead of cutting through Guildwood. It was proposed in the Scarborough East study that was briefly posted on the TTC website this year. It is supposed to be implemented in 2021 after consultation next year. In addition, the TTC wants to implement bus only lanes along pretty much the entire 905 routing, which covers Kingston Rd from Morningside to Eglinton.

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Removing 116 from Guildwood? Some other route would have to serve it, there's a lot of people there including two schools.

Everything will be reorganized once the LRT extension opens, but Guildwood/Morningside south of Lawrence will have to be served.

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4 hours ago, MK78 said:

Removing 116 from Guildwood? Some other route would have to serve it, there's a lot of people there including two schools.

Everything will be reorganized once the LRT extension opens, but Guildwood/Morningside south of Lawrence will have to be served.

The Scarborough East study recommended, among other changes, having 116C use Kingston Rd and combining 116A and 86D into a new "177" route that would serve Guildwood.

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19 minutes ago, wil9402 said:

The Scarborough East study recommended, among other changes, having 116C use Kingston Rd and combining 116A and 86D into a new "177" route that would serve Guildwood.

Ah you're right, I do remember reading that.

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1 hour ago, MK78 said:

Ah you're right, I do remember reading that.

The post is here 

 

On 1/21/2019 at 11:58 PM, STC125 said:

Edit: And just after posting this it seems to have disappeared from the TTC site.

The TTC has launched another area consultation.  They are seeking input on route changes in southeast Scarborough. The proposed changes are below.

Existing

image.thumb.png.6ebc5cc581e4b65443f5d9e5468d540f.png

Changes

  • 54 Lawrence East frequent service extended to Morningside Avenue
  • 54B Lawrence East extended to Morningside Avenue with service on Scarborough Golf Club Road replaced with 179 and with Orton Park Road with 178
  • 86D Scarborough replaced with 177B
  • 95A York Mills extended to Sheppard Avenue East via Kingston Road
  • 116 Morningside operates via Kingston Road instead of Guildwood Parkway
  • 116A service to Conlins Road replaced with 177A
  • 177 new route with service to Conlins Road and to Coronation Drive via Guildwood Parkway
  • 178 new route with service on Brimorton Drive between Scarborough Centre Station and Morningside Drive
  • 179 new route with service from Lawrence East Station via Orton Park Road to U of T Scarborough
  • 938 new peak service express branch from Scarborough Centre Station to U of T Scarborough
image.thumb.png.f64c9053bbe2612dbdc777036e5a63bd.png

http://www.ttc.ca/TTC_Surveys/Scarborough_East.jsp

 

This survey is to be consulted in Q1 2020.

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21 hours ago, wil9402 said:

I think the improvements to Kingston Rd they are talking about is the proposed rerouting of 116 along Kingston Rd instead of cutting through Guildwood. It was proposed in the Scarborough East study that was briefly posted on the TTC website this year. It is supposed to be implemented in 2021 after consultation next year.

Ahh indeed, I'd totally forgotten about that plan.

 

Dan

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So I guess since they are taking 12 artics from the 41 and the 935 uses 12 buses, I assume they will put the 12 artics on the 935 I could be wrong tho

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3 minutes ago, Young said:

So I guess since they are taking 12 artics from the 41 and the 935 uses 12 buses, I assume they will put the 12 artics on the 935 I could be wrong tho

Not until the transfers of routes occurs. Possibly to keep the 40 footers off of the pm rush. But at least 16-18 regular buses will have to be utilized to evenly cover service (amateur prediction. No need to hackle)

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