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TTC Service Changes

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3 hours ago, nfitz said:

AM peak seemed complete ... though I saw most of the 508s all showing as 506s around 9 AM - I should have looked earlier.

The 508 am peak routing has all the 508 cars run west across the 506 route from Parliament to Howard Park & Roncesvalles to run in

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I spotted a 144 DON VALLEY EXPRESS this earlier this evening (Nov. 28) around 6:40 on Richmond at Sherbourne.  I wonder if the driver was wondering where all of the passengers were since the route's been rerouted onto King?  There were maybe 3 or 4 people on the bus.  I guess someone didn't get or read the memo or no one thought to correct the driver.  It wasn't a matter of the driver missing the turn onto Parliament as per the new routing as it kept going west past Jarvis.  I'm curious how many people missed their bus if the driver continued along the old routing on Adelaide for the trip out of downtown.

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Looking at vehicle locations right now, it does look like they are heading westbound on Richmond, and eastbound on King.

I honestly don't see an issue with that in PM rush hour - how many riders are on each of the 5 southbound runs from York Mills Road? Does anyone really need to take the 144 westbound on King Street to Charlotte in the PM?

Still, they should publicize it, if this is what they are doing.

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20 hours ago, nfitz said:

Looking at vehicle locations right now, it does look like they are heading westbound on Richmond, and eastbound on King.

I honestly don't see an issue with that in PM rush hour - how many riders are on each of the 5 southbound runs from York Mills Road? Does anyone really need to take the 144 westbound on King Street to Charlotte in the PM?

Still, they should publicize it, if this is what they are doing.

PM Rush 144 deadheads southbound to the first Northbound stop.  Some drivers even go as far as changing their destination signs to "Not in Service."

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19 minutes ago, TTC7447 said:

PM Rush 144 deadheads southbound to the first Northbound stop.  Some drivers even go as far as changing their destination signs to "Not in Service."

+1 with you.

But in Eglinton-related news, per @leylandvictory2, the 91 WOODBINE is moving to Eglinton/Comstock next board period. 

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44 minutes ago, TTC7447 said:

PM Rush 144 deadheads southbound to the first Northbound stop.  Some drivers even go as far as changing their destination signs to "Not in Service."

Some do, especially earlier in PM peak - but the ones I were checking, had started at York Mills. There are 5 westbound departures listed in PM rush from Parliament and King (stop 6640), compared to 10 eastbound runs.

Triplinx lists westbound 144 departures from Parliament at King at 5:23 pm, 5:43 pm, 6:03 pm, 6:23 pm, and 6:43 pm (along with quite a few 143 trips).

It was 6:40 pm that the original poster saw one westbound on Richmond and Sherbourne, and about 6:30 pm when I also noticed them westbound on Richmond.

Clearly some 144 drivers are not following the reported route!

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https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2019/12/20200105servicechanges.pdf

Well.. it looks like the TTC's assault on the service level is continuing by the name of "Service Reliability Improvement"

Three routes (45 Kipling, 54 Lawrence East, and 95 York Mills) will be removed from '10 minute network'

I really think it is really bad way... increasing the headway only causes overcrowding.

I use 50 Burnhamthorpe often, and the service level was reduced during the afternoon commute from every 13 min to 15 min..

and the bus is way overcrowded during the rush... 49 Bloor West has similar level of ridership to 50 Burnhamthorpe.. but the TTC's been only assaulting 50 by cutting services during the summers and holidays. 

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30 minutes ago, raptorjays said:

https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2019/12/20200105servicechanges.pdf

Well.. it looks like the TTC's assault on the service level is continuing by the name of "Service Reliability Improvement"

Three routes (45 Kipling, 54 Lawrence East, and 95 York Mills) will be removed from '10 minute network'

I really think it is really bad way... increasing the headway only causes overcrowding.

I use 50 Burnhamthorpe often, and the service level was reduced during the afternoon commute from every 13 min to 15 min..

and the bus is way overcrowded during the rush... 49 Bloor West has similar level of ridership to 50 Burnhamthorpe.. but the TTC's been only assaulting 50 by cutting services during the summers and holidays. 

It's worse than just increasing crowding on these buses, this will have a severely negative impact on ridership, especially since buses don't really run according to a set schedule anymore. 

Anyone else notice that the 505 will remain a bus line until at least May next year?

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1 hour ago, Streety McCarface said:

It's worse than just increasing crowding on these buses, this will have a severely negative impact on ridership, especially since buses don't really run according to a set schedule anymore. 

Anyone else notice that the 505 will remain a bus line until at least May next year?

That'll give 511 several months of accessible service before it's bustituted.

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Too much additional running time will just backfire. More buses will tailgate the bus in front and leave bigger gaps. Line capacity drops.

For the 52, they'll end up with trips getting 15-20 minute breaks at each end. 

---

So there would be a new 32F branch (Eglinton W Stn - Royal York & Trenholme) for the school trip to York Memo at Scarlett Heights and a 47D branch (St. Clair - Lansdown Stn) for the 506 trippers.

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3 hours ago, Streety McCarface said:

It's worse than just increasing crowding on these buses, this will have a severely negative impact on ridership, especially since buses don't really run according to a set schedule anymore. 

Anyone else notice that the 505 will remain a bus line until at least May next year?

Steve Munro just released the January service changes and mentioned that it looks like the 505 will return to streetcars for the April board, at which time the 511 will be bused. 

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4 minutes ago, Shaun said:

Is there some construction going on for the 511 being replaced by busses? Or just a shortage of street cars?

Bussed till TTC can either afford more streetcar or some a freed up while other route are bussed

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20 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Bussed till TTC can either afford more streetcar or some a freed up while other route are bussed

54 minutes ago, CLRV4002 said:

Steve Munro just released the January service changes and mentioned that it looks like the 505 will return to streetcars for the April board, at which time the 511 will be bused. 

I don't know who is doing the 511 bus after the CLRV's are finished?

5 hours ago, raptorjays said:

https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2019/12/20200105servicechanges.pdf

Well.. it looks like the TTC's assault on the service level is continuing by the name of "Service Reliability Improvement"

Three routes (45 Kipling, 54 Lawrence East, and 95 York Mills) will be removed from '10 minute network'

I really think it is really bad way... increasing the headway only causes overcrowding.

I use 50 Burnhamthorpe often, and the service level was reduced during the afternoon commute from every 13 min to 15 min..

and the bus is way overcrowded during the rush... 49 Bloor West has similar level of ridership to 50 Burnhamthorpe.. but the TTC's been only assaulting 50 by cutting services during the summers and holidays. 

As I mentioned above about the 91 moving to New Eglinton, the 55 WARREN PARK is also moving to Queensway. 506 trippers are split with New Eg and Mt. Dennis. I can't imagine a garage shuffles for 2020.

From my point, the 91 should've moved to New Eg when Mt. Dennis opened back in 2008. Why they didn't get the 93 PARKVIEW HILLS to move to New Eg as well? I can't see a route swap with Birchmount.

 

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1 hour ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Too much additional running time will just backfire. More buses will tailgate the bus in front and leave bigger gaps. Line capacity drops.

For the 52, they'll end up with trips getting 15-20 minute breaks at each end. 

---

So there would be a new 32F branch (Eglinton W Stn - Royal York & Trenholme) for the school trip to York Memo at Scarlett Heights and a 47D branch (St. Clair - Lansdown Stn) for the 506 trippers.

Yes, I really think it isn't really efficient if you have to kill services to improve service reliability..

It is really similar to how Doug Ford is putting Ontario into a bunker.. Making cuts to the most vulnerable and calling it as an 'efficiency' and saving. 

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26 minutes ago, Express Network said:

I don't know who is doing the 511 bus after the CLRV's are finished?

Because no one has released that information yet.

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1 hour ago, Shaun said:

Considering that the new cars have yet to be ordered, there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

There's a bit of a light. They only need 162 cars for this service. That's a 26% spare ratio.

If they can whittle it down to 17%, once the welding, etc, was done, that would provide 174 cars, and 12 cars for 505. The earlier plan was for 14 cars on 505 at peak. So with a bit more peak bustitution in addition to 501, 502, 503, and 506, then we could see most services other than Kingston Road back. 

And that includes the 5 cars for 508 - which does seem like a bit of a luxury.

Though the heck with 60 or 100 extra cars. If they'd have just have managed 20, then things would have been much better.

 

1 hour ago, Shaun said:

Is there some construction going on for the 511 being replaced by busses? Or just a shortage of street cars?

Steve noted that in April, 511 will be replaced by buses, for "Bathurst St track work". Is part of this finally the long-planned bridge replacement?

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4 hours ago, Shaun said:

Too bad that the C's are so unreliable.  They could use them on Kingston Rd. 

I much prefer the buses on Kingston road. When they had the CLRV's, jeez, sometimes the wait would be half an hour, because they'd be hung up somewhere down on queen, either due to an accident, some other streetcar failing, or some diversion.

Since the full bus replacement of 502/503 and then combined 503, there is never any waiting time for a bus at Bingham loop in the morning rush. There is usually at least one bus waiting, and usually there is more than one, and they leave 6-7 minutes apart.

I think with the retirement of CLRV's, I think this will be the way for a long time, maybe even forever, as the TTC will want to prioritize Flexities for the other routes.

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1 hour ago, MK78 said:

I much prefer the buses on Kingston road. When they had the CLRV's, jeez, sometimes the wait would be half an hour, because they'd be hung up somewhere down on queen, either due to an accident, some other streetcar failing, or some diversion.

Since the full bus replacement of 502/503 and then combined 503, there is never any waiting time for a bus at Bingham loop in the morning rush. There is usually at least one bus waiting, and usually there is more than one, and they leave 6-7 minutes apart.

I think with the retirement of CLRV's, I think this will be the way for a long time, maybe even forever, as the TTC will want to prioritize Flexities for the other routes.

The 502/503 are effectively dead at this point, especially the 502. It pains me to say but the only real way to save the Kingston Road Streetcar is to run it up Coxwell and replace the 22, but that won't happen without extensive modifications to the station (As per Steve Munro) or a shortening of the vehicles. 

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8 hours ago, Streety McCarface said:

The 502/503 are effectively dead at this point, especially the 502. It pains me to say but the only real way to save the Kingston Road Streetcar is to run it up Coxwell and replace the 22, but that won't happen without extensive modifications to the station (As per Steve Munro) or a shortening of the vehicles. 

I've been on the 22 before and it's crowded. As well wasn't their something a little while back about extending the 502/503 to Birchmount or Danforth wasn’t it being deferred along with the future  Park Lawn Loop?

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1 hour ago, John Oke said:

As well wasn't their something a little while back about extending the 502/503 to Birchmount or Danforth wasn’t it being deferred along with the future  Park Lawn Loop?

No, never. The travel patterns along Kingston Rd. don't warrant it.

 

Dan

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2 hours ago, smallspy said:

No, never. The travel patterns along Kingston Rd. don't warrant it.

The travel patterns don't support a 2-km extension to Birchmount?

Birchmount Community Centre is a nightmare to get to from south of the tracks - and I end up driving most of the time. Despite easily going a month or so in this city without driving. I have no doubt that a short 503 extension, would get riders from the Birchcliffe neighbourhood, and vice-versa.

 

4 hours ago, John Oke said:

I've been on the 22 before and it's crowded. 

It's also one of the most cost-effective bus lines in the city, with many relatively short rides. If you look at the 2014 ridership number, per km, the highest if 65 Parliament, with 8.1 riders per km. Then 64 Main with 7.9 riders/km. Followed by the 126 Christie at 7.6 riders/km and the 22 Coxwell at 6.8 riders/km.

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13 hours ago, Streety McCarface said:

The 502/503 are effectively dead at this point, especially the 502. It pains me to say but the only real way to save the Kingston Road Streetcar is to run it up Coxwell and replace the 22, but that won't happen without extensive modifications to the station (As per Steve Munro) or a shortening of the vehicles. 

And they also just redid the entire outside bus loop at Coxwell last year. It's too small for streetcars even short ones.

Like I said before I'm happy with buses on Kingston Road. I'd be even happier if they made a permanent route from like Morningside to Coxwell or thereabout, looping around the McDonalds.

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