TTC Service Changes

[7575]

1 hour ago, wil9402 said:

The entire stretch of Kingston Rd from St Clair to Highland Creek was done at the same time in late August to update stops to include 12D, 902, 905 and 986. This was most likely done to save time and money.

 But they haven't done other routes that have already changed, that was my point.

[MK78]

What I really wonder is why they did 198->905 Scarborough East Express renaming, but left the 86->986 renaming for much later. I mean, it's an existing route, signs have been changed, the two bloody routes use the same platform at Kennedy station, there's nothing logistically preventing them from doing it at the same time, causing less confusion.

They're both express routes, and they share a large portion of the route with each other.

They should have left those two routes alone for later, or done them at the same time. This is the puzzling part.

[wil9402]

21 hours ago, 7575 said:

 But they haven't done other routes that have already changed, that was my point.

Let me try and make this more clear. Kingston Rd was done in August because they needed to update for 902 and 905 in September. It makes more sense to update for 986 and 12D at that time as well instead of revisiting in October to update them for 12D and then again in 2019 for 986. That would cost more time and money as your applying route info stickers to the same stops 3 times over a 3-4 month span. The more logical thing is to do it once only.

21 hours ago, MK78 said:

What I really wonder is why they did 198->905 Scarborough East Express renaming, but left the 86->986 renaming for much later. I mean, it's an existing route, signs have been changed, the two bloody routes use the same platform at Kennedy station, there's nothing logistically preventing them from doing it at the same time, causing less confusion.

They're both express routes, and they share a large portion of the route with each other.

They should have left those two routes alone for later, or done them at the same time. This is the puzzling part.

It is not as easy as just renumbering the route. For a majority of these routes, they have to do new schedules. 198 conversion to 905 was easy since the previous schedule wasn't blended with a local route. A number of runs on 86E however operate on the local 86A/C/D branches outside of peak periods. As a result a new schedule has to be written out to separate 986 from 86. As brought up earlier in this thread by @Xtrazsteve, the final E branches to 900-series routes being done in early 2019 (45E, 53E/F, 86E) make up a major part of the main line's schedule. In the case of 86, just over half the buses in AM peak operate as 86E (14 of 27 runs) meaning that quite a large schedule has to be written out for both 86 and 986 to separate the runs. It makes more sense to get as many of the easier routes done first, which 198/905 was, and leave the harder ones like 86E/986 for later.

[MK78]

15 hours ago, wil9402 said:

It is not as easy as just renumbering the route. For a majority of these routes, they have to do new schedules. 198 conversion to 905 was easy since the previous schedule wasn't blended with a local route. A number of runs on 86E however operate on the local 86A/C/D branches outside of peak periods. As a result a new schedule has to be written out to separate 986 from 86. As brought up earlier in this thread by @Xtrazsteve, the final E branches to 900-series routes being done in early 2019 (45E, 53E/F, 86E) make up a major part of the main line's schedule. In the case of 86, just over half the buses in AM peak operate as 86E (14 of 27 runs) meaning that quite a large schedule has to be written out for both 86 and 986 to separate the runs. It makes more sense to get as many of the easier routes done first, which 198/905 was, and leave the harder ones like 86E/986 for later.

Ok, that makes some sense, but was service level adjusted when 198 was changed to 905? If not, and assuming 86E->986 isnt going to be adjusted as there are more than enough 86E's, what do local 86 branches have to do with anything? They should just stay as they are, no? Currently 86E and local 86 branches bunch up like crazy anyway, you get 2-3 Express in a row heading to Kennedy at times, within minutes of each other.

[Kobayashi]

19 hours ago, wil9402 said:

Let me try and make this more clear. Kingston Rd was done in August because they needed to update for 902 and 905 in September. It makes more sense to update for 986 and 12D at that time as well instead of revisiting in October to update them for 12D and then again in 2019 for 986. That would cost more time and money as your applying route info stickers to the same stops 3 times over a 3-4 month span. The more logical thing is to do it once only.

Speaking of the 12D, which I rode #7883/#7666 as its last run yesterday at 7:07p, there were less than ten customers during these periods and some managed to take the 86 SCARBOROUGH or 102 MARKHAM ROAD instead rather than the 12D. Ridership is a bit fairly low.

[MK78]

10 minutes ago, BYD said:

Speaking of the 12D, which I rode #7883/#7666 as its last run yesterday at 7:07p, there were less than ten customers during these periods and some managed to take the 86 SCARBOROUGH or 102 MARKHAM ROAD instead rather than the 12D. Ridership is a bit fairly low.

I've taken it all this week so far going to work and returning home. Tuesday going to work at 7:15am, it was completely empty until it hit the rest of the regular at Brimley. Wednesday some high schoolers got on along the new portion of the route, today more than half the seats were taken by the time it hit Brimley. Returning was a different story, because I was coming back on the first run from Victoria Park going east at 3pm, so the buses were full of the high school kids getting out from Neil McNeil and Notre Dame, as well as picking up some along the way from Cardinal Newman & RH King. Yesterday was particularly rowdy and I decided I'm not gonna take the return trip home during this timeframe.

 

So for now I've been enjoying the morning trip on the 12D then transferring to 502/503 to get to Queen & Greenwood, much less crowded than the 86/116+BD option, and I get there in the same amount of time.

[wil9402]

7 hours ago, MK78 said:

Ok, that makes some sense, but was service level adjusted when 198 was changed to 905? If not, and assuming 86E->986 isnt going to be adjusted as there are more than enough 86E's, what do local 86 branches have to do with anything? They should just stay as they are, no? Currently 86E and local 86 branches bunch up like crazy anyway, you get 2-3 Express in a row heading to Kennedy at times, within minutes of each other.

Looking at other E branch to 900-series conversions, none of the runs that operate on the new 900-series routes operate on the local route outside of peak periods. If this is the case for 86/986 then they have to re-write the local 86 schedule to have all runs on 86 operate on the local at all times of the day as opposed to the current setup that has some 86E runs continue to operate outside of peak periods on the local branches.

For example, run 2 on 86 starts service at Kennedy Station just before 5am. It does a round trip on 86C, does three round trips on 86E, goes onto 86D for midday service and then finishes the day by doing a couple round trips on 86E. These kind of runs have to be re-written to have them operate on 86A/B/C/D at all times of the day since 986 will be its own route and not a branch of 86. 

[Xtrazsteve]

1 hour ago, wil9402 said:

Looking at other E branch to 900-series conversions, none of the runs that operate on the new 900-series routes operate on the local route outside of peak periods. If this is the case for 86/986 then they have to re-write the local 86 schedule to have all runs on 86 operate on the local at all times of the day as opposed to the current setup that has some 86E runs continue to operate outside of peak periods on the local branches.

For example, run 2 on 86 starts service at Kennedy Station just before 5am. It does a round trip on 86C, does three round trips on 86E, goes onto 86D for midday service and then finishes the day by doing a couple round trips on 86E. These kind of runs have to be re-written to have them operate on 86A/B/C/D at all times of the day since 986 will be its own route and not a branch of 86. 

The 45 and 86 would have interesting schedules. There will be interlining between the 45/945 and 86/986 during midday

[wil9402]

1 hour ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The 45 and 86 would have interesting schedules. There will be interlining between the 45/945 and 86/986 during midday

I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with these two. Currently there are 13 buses on 86A/B/D during AM peak and 13 on 86A/D during midday, it could be possible to have all buses from 86 during AM peak stay out for midday and have all buses on 986 run back to the garage after AM peak. 45 on the other hand will either need some 945 buses to operate on it during midday or have some 45 runs start service during midday. if so, 45 would be one of the few exceptions. The only other local routes that have buses come off of or go onto 900-series routes at the moment is 35 which has three 935 runs operating on it during Sunday evening, 24 has two school specials that go onto 924 as well as 84 that has one school special that goes onto 984.

[Kobayashi]

13 hours ago, wil9402 said:

I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with these two. Currently there are 13 buses on 86A/B/D during AM peak and 13 on 86A/D during midday, it could be possible to have all buses from 86 during AM peak stay out for midday and have all buses on 986 run back to the garage after AM peak. 45 on the other hand will either need some 945 buses to operate on it during midday or have some 45 runs start service during midday. if so, 45 would be one of the few exceptions. The only other local routes that have buses come off of or go onto 900-series routes at the moment is 35 which has three 935 runs operating on it during Sunday evening, 24 has two school specials that go onto 924 as well as 84 that has one school special that goes onto 984.

Come to think of school specials, 102 (and perhaps the 902) still has two PM runs which its later morphed into the 86A/C. The St. John Paul II C.S.S. runs on Military Trail are still provided by the 95 and 116 (which anyone can correct if those runs become either the 38 or the 905).

16 hours ago, wil9402 said:

Looking at other E branch to 900-series conversions, none of the runs that operate on the new 900-series routes operate on the local route outside of peak periods. If this is the case for 86/986 then they have to re-write the local 86 schedule to have all runs on 86 operate on the local at all times of the day as opposed to the current setup that has some 86E runs continue to operate outside of peak periods on the local branches.

For example, run 2 on 86 starts service at Kennedy Station just before 5am. It does a round trip on 86C, does three round trips on 86E, goes onto 86D for midday service and then finishes the day by doing a couple round trips on 86E. These kind of runs have to be re-written to have them operate on 86A/B/C/D at all times of the day since 986 will be its own route and not a branch of 86. 

Perhaps its time to simplify/restructure the 86 branches into 86A/C and 986 using the "MEADOWVALE" name (the 86B can be eventually killed off) while the 86D can be its own route running either from Victoria Park (extend the 12 to it), Warden (reviving the old 114) or Kennedy (why not have it operating under "BEECHGROVE" route name).

[DAT_28]

On 9/30/2018 at 4:51 PM, wil9402 said:

Looks like most of the other express routes have a date for conversion to the 900-series. During the November board all remaining routes except for 45E, 53E/F and 86E will be converted to the 900-series. The last three routes will be done in early 2019. 

I'm curious how they chose what routes would be converted when, seems to have been all over the place.

The TTC updated the express site. Now the 186 Wilson Rocket will be converted  in early 2019.

[Kobayashi]

Changes for November/December posted by Steve Munro. 

What's also interesting is apart from the rebranding of another set of express routes to the 900-series, the new 903 KENNEDY-SCARBOROUGH CENTRE EXPRESS interlines with the 131 NUGGET (formerly 131A/131E) during peak periods. However, I do see a possible livery change to 12 buses for the 900 AIRPORT EXPRESS.

With the project at Kennedy station's terminal winding down, routes that are using the temporary terminal at the parking lot are heading back to the northern part of the terminal though I can expect the demolition of the temporary terminal anytime soon.

In addition, the 700-series Run-as-directed (RAD) routes are being temporarily changed to 500-series standby buses for the season during the 11am to 8pm periods (except for 10am-7pm for 779 and 1pm-10pm for 758):

- 701 RAD WILSON > none
- 702 RAD QUEENSWAY > 752 STANDBY QUEENSWAY
- 704 RAD ARROW ROAD > 754 STANDBY ARROW ROAD
- 706 RAD BIRCHMOUNT > none
- 707 RAD MALVERN > 757 STANDBY MALVERN + 779 SERVICE RELIEF MALVERN
- 709 RAD MOUNT DENNIS > 758 STANDBY MOUNT DENNIS
- 710 RAD NEW EGLINTON > 760 STANDBY NEW EGLINTON + 780 SERVICE RELIEF EGLINTON
- none > 535 STANDBY RUSSELL / LESLIE
 

[DAT_28]

On 10/22/2018 at 7:27 AM, BYD said:

With the project at Kennedy station's terminal winding down, routes that are using the temporary terminal at the parking lot are heading back to the northern part of the terminal though I can expect the demolition of the temporary terminal anytime soon.

delete 

[DAT_28]

On 10/22/2018 at 7:27 AM, BYD said:

However, I do see a possible livery change to 12 buses for the 900 AIRPORT EXPRESS.

 

They only updated the sticker.

Pic credit: Twitter user @ photoblair.

[Kobayashi]

With no Service Summary released yet, signage for the 903 KENNEDY-SCARBOROUGH CENTRE EXPRESS are now up. 175 is now moved to the 21/903 bay.

[7575]

8003 is finished at Hillcrest. Should be moved back to Queensway tonight or tomorrow

[Xtrazsteve]

For this board's express route changes, there are interlining between local and express routes on the 41/941, 95/995 and 131/903.

[dowlingm]

6 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

For this board's express route changes, there are interlining between local and express routes on the 41/941, 95/995 and 131/903.

So a bus which goes eastbound as a local flips to express on the return or something like that?

[wil9402]

11 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

For this board's express route changes, there are interlining between local and express routes on the 41/941, 95/995 and 131/903.

941 is has 3 41 runs in the AM only, PM peak is all 941 runs. 995 in the AM has 4 95 runs where as PM peak is almost entirely 95 runs with the exception of one 995 run.

903 is interesting. All runs on 903 during both AM and PM peak are 131 runs as expected since the routes interline at Scarborough Centre. What is interesting about 903 though is that it has one run off of 38 that starts service on 131/903 for AM peak and going onto 38 for midday, PM peak and early evening service. In addition, there is 939 run that does 939 during AM peak and midday and goes onto 131/903 for PM peak and continues on 131 until the end of late evening service.

4 hours ago, dowlingm said:

So a bus which goes eastbound as a local flips to express on the return or something like that?

No. Specific runs on the express route either come off of or go onto the local service when peak period service is done. For example, a bus on a specific run on 41 operates as a 941 during AM peak and then goes onto 41 for midday service. 131 and 903 on the other hand actually "flip" though. When a southbound 131 reaches Scarborough Centre it changes to a 903 and continues south to Kennedy and the opposite occurs when a northbound 903 reaches Scarborough Centre.

[leylandvictory2]

1 hour ago, wil9402 said:

941 is has 3 41 runs in the AM only, PM peak is all 941 runs. 995 in the AM has 4 95 runs where as PM peak is almost entirely 95 runs with the exception of one 995 run.

903 is interesting. All runs on 903 during both AM and PM peak are 131 runs as expected since the routes interline at Scarborough Centre. What is interesting about 903 though is that it has one run off of 38 that starts service on 131/903 for AM peak and going onto 38 for midday, PM peak and early evening service. In addition, there is 939 run that does 939 during AM peak and midday and goes onto 131/903 for PM peak and continues on 131 until the end of late evening service.

No. Specific runs on the express route either come off of or go onto the local service when peak period service is done. For example, a bus on a specific run on 41 operates as a 941 during AM peak and then goes onto 41 for midday service. 131 and 903 on the other hand actually "flip" though. When a southbound 131 reaches Scarborough Centre it changes to a 903 and continues south to Kennedy and the opposite occurs when a northbound 903 reaches Scarborough Centre.

some buses haven't reprogramed signs yet.  I saw one still displaying 131E

[DAT_28]

41 minutes ago, leylandvictory2 said:

some buses haven't reprogramed signs yet.  I saw one still displaying 131E

Yeah, I saw many still with 95E and 131E

[Xtrazsteve]

2 hours ago, wil9402 said:

No. Specific runs on the express route either come off of or go onto the local service when peak period service is done. For example, a bus on a specific run on 41 operates as a 941 during AM peak and then goes onto 41 for midday service. 131 and 903 on the other hand actually "flip" though. When a southbound 131 reaches Scarborough Centre it changes to a 903 and continues south to Kennedy and the opposite occurs when a northbound 903 reaches Scarborough Centre.

Basically they still do the same old 131E but signed like it's the 131F. It's going to cause a lot of confusion.

[MK78]

1 hour ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Basically they still do the same old 131E but signed like it's the 131F. It's going to cause a lot of confusion.

Yeah, some of these Express Network changes are a little weird...

 

[leylandvictory2]

when they added an extra letter on certain routes, it caused major confusions.  Drivers weren't told of the new changes.  As a results, the code we entered for the destination signs didn't work.

[MK78]

On 11/19/2018 at 8:53 PM, DAT_28 said:

Yeah, I saw many still with 95E and 131E

I saw a 131E this afternoon as well.

Do they have to be manually programmed or is it some sort of wireless system that the bus updates when it pulls in the garage?