TTC Service Changes

[MK78]

12D Every 25-30 minutes? Jeez.  Kingston Rd. has got to be the most dysfunctional major road in Toronto when it comes to transit... 502 Streetcar, 12 Kingston, 102 Markham, 86/116.

I always wondered why they couldn't simply scrap the streetcar up kingston road to Vic park, and simply have a proper bus service from Kingston/Queen to like Kingston & Highland Creek overpass.

Mind you this is a service I would like to use since I live and travel on the route. I'm gonna give it a try, to see what the ride time would be for me from Kingston & Guildwood to Queen & Greenwood, vs taking the 86/116, Subway, then 31 Greenwood.

Obviously will have to see if it will even make sense how the schedule will line up, and the prospect of high school kids absolutely clogging it up from RH King, Newman & McNeil...

[J. Bullock]

On 7/31/2018 at 1:25 PM, MK78 said:

12D Every 25-30 minutes? Jeez.  Kingston Rd. has got to be the most dysfunctional major road in Toronto when it comes to transit... 502 Streetcar, 12 Kingston, 102 Markham, 86/116.

I always wondered why they couldn't simply scrap the streetcar up kingston road to Vic park, and simply have a proper bus service from Kingston/Queen to like Kingston & Highland Creek overpass.

Mind you this is a service I would like to use since I live and travel on the route. I'm gonna give it a try, to see what the ride time would be for me from Kingston & Guildwood to Queen & Greenwood, vs taking the 86/116, Subway, then 31 Greenwood.

Obviously will have to see if it will even make sense how the schedule will line up, and the prospect of high school kids absolutely clogging it up from RH King, Newman & McNeil...

Is it though? Service on Kingston is appropriately served by it's current services. 10min max on key areas with the 12, 86, 102 and 116. I personally don't agree with a bus along the full length of Kingston.

[Xtrazsteve]

13 minutes ago, J. Bullock said:

Is it though? Service on Kingston is appropriately served by it's current services. 10min max on key areas with the 12, 86, 102 and 116. I personally don't agree with a bus along the full length of Kingston.

They'll pilot it for a year. In rush hour many of these routes are rather unreliable and often packed. To get from a Kingston Rd/Lawrence to Kingston Rd/Victoria Park one would have to transfer twice from the 86 to the 102 and the 12 making the trip unpleasant.

[MK78]

I think the TTC would have saved themselves a ton of money if they just got rid of the victoria park streetcar section, that would more than offset a regular bus route from Queen to Beechgrove for example, or it could turn around at Morningside maybe.

Just the maintenance and periodic rail/overhead infrastructure along that stretch must be a pretty penny, and they could allocate the streetcars to where they're needed. Besides, it's been replaced by bus service so often over the last few years, and there's no streetcar on weekends, Coxwell 22A has served the weekends & holidays for as long as I could remember.

[patrickst]

1 hour ago, Xtrazsteve said:

They'll pilot it for a year. In rush hour many of these routes are rather unreliable and often packed. To get from a Kingston Rd/Lawrence to Kingston Rd/Victoria Park one would have to transfer twice from the 86 to the 102 and the 12 making the trip unpleasant.

Why would you transfer twice? If you're going point A to point B take the 86 and switch directly to the 12. You go off of Kingston Rd but only one transfer. If you need to travel along multiple points on Kingston, then you have a valid issue.

[MK78]

The 12A doesn't run that often to the transfer point at Brimley & Eglinton. It runs often enough to Stclair, but not to Eglinton, I think about every 20 minutes or so?

 

[J. Bullock]

On 8/1/2018 at 3:39 PM, Xtrazsteve said:

They'll pilot it for a year. In rush hour many of these routes are rather unreliable and often packed. To get from a Kingston Rd/Lawrence to Kingston Rd/Victoria Park one would have to transfer twice from the 86 to the 102 and the 12 making the trip unpleasant.

You completely alleviate that by taking the subway from Kennedy to VP and transferring to the 12, or just transferring to the 12 at Kennedy..

On 8/1/2018 at 6:09 PM, MK78 said:

The 12A doesn't run that often to the transfer point at Brimley & Eglinton. It runs often enough to Stclair, but not to Eglinton, I think about every 20 minutes or so?

 

10-15 in peak periods. 20 all other times.

 

I think the TTC would have saved themselves a ton of money if they just got rid of the victoria park streetcar section, that would more than offset a regular bus route from Queen to Beechgrove for example, or it could turn around at Morningside maybe.

Just the maintenance and periodic rail/overhead infrastructure along that stretch must be a pretty penny, and they could allocate the streetcars to where they're needed. Besides, it's been replaced by bus service so often over the last few years, and there's no streetcar on weekends, Coxwell 22A has served the weekends & holidays for as long as I could remember.

If the infrastructure is there why not use it?? TTC put a lot of money into repairing and maintaining the tracks on Kingston over the years. What they need is a branch of the 501 to serve up to Bingham on off peak hours, somewhere along the lines of every 20 minutes? Not to mention, a bus from Queen to Beechgrove would have an incredibly long runtime, resulting in a lot of delays.

There was a branch of the 12 that took over from the 114 when it was cancelled back in 1990. It served Vic Park Station to Collinsgrove, a side street after Morningside on Kingston. I'm under the impression the service was cut due to low ridership, the same fate as the 114. 

It should be interesting to see how this pilot service plays out, especially because I live at Morningside and Kingston, i'm curious to see if the service will take off like city council predicts, or ends in the same fate as the 12C and 114, which were the exact same routes provided 20-30 years ago... but hey, I could be wrong, lots has changed in this city in even the last five years.

[J. Bullock]

On 8/1/2018 at 5:18 PM, MK78 said:

I think the TTC would have saved themselves a ton of money if they just got rid of the victoria park streetcar section, that would more than offset a regular bus route from Queen to Beechgrove for example, or it could turn around at Morningside maybe.

Just the maintenance and periodic rail/overhead infrastructure along that stretch must be a pretty penny, and they could allocate the streetcars to where they're needed. Besides, it's been replaced by bus service so often over the last few years, and there's no streetcar on weekends, Coxwell 22A has served the weekends & holidays for as long as I could remember.

If the infrastructure is there why not use it?? TTC put a lot of money into repairing and maintaining the tracks on Kingston over the years. What they need is a branch of the 501 to serve up to Bingham on off peak hours, somewhere along the lines of every 20 minutes? Not to mention, a bus from Queen to Beechgrove would have an incredibly long runtime, resulting in a lot of delays.

There was a branch of the 12 that took over from the 114 when it was cancelled back in 1990. It served Vic Park Station to Collinsgrove, a side street after Morningside on Kingston. I'm under the impression the service was cut due to low ridership, the same fate as the 114. 

It should be interesting to see how this pilot service plays out, especially because I live at Morningside and Kingston, i'm curious to see if the service will take off like city council predicts, or ends in the same fate as the 12C and 114, which were the exact same routes provided 20-30 years ago... but hey, I could be wrong, lots has changed in this city in even the last five years.

[Shaun]

Would it be faster than taking the subway to STC and then to UTSC? Taking into consideration traffic and lights along Kingston rd?

[soo8513]

Re: Coxwell 22A I do recall that there was an evening and weekend BINGHAM COXWELL to COXWELL COXWELL car. Likely converted to bus when DANFORTH car was converted to Subway.

[Xtrazsteve]

4 hours ago, Shaun said:

Would it be faster than taking the subway to STC and then to UTSC? Taking into consideration traffic and lights along Kingston rd?

It will be useful for people with multiple destinations along Kingston Rd. With 2 hour time based presto transfer coming, some people may consider using it. There was a voice for such a service but who knows if they would actually use it. 

[Kobayashi]

TTC has just released the new express network map:

http://ttc.ca/PDF/ExpressNetwork-map.pdf

 

 

[anyfong]

16 minutes ago, BYD said:

TTC has just released the new express network map:

http://ttc.ca/PDF/ExpressNetwork-map.pdf

 

 

I don't get what are the benefits of changing all the numbers! Doing so means that it will take a while for frequent riders to get used to, and also changing all the signage to the new numbers would be very costly. The current express bus system is already easy to understand and there's no need for change.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[smallspy]

47 minutes ago, anyfong said:

I don't get what are the benefits of changing all the numbers! Doing so means that it will take a while for frequent riders to get used to, and also changing all the signage to the new numbers would be very costly. The current express bus system is already easy to understand and there's no need for change.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

It was "broke". They were very quickly running out of numbers.

 

Dan

[Xtrazsteve]

The 'F' branch naming needed some fixing. 52F is a local short turn branch while 53F is express. Of course the TTC is brilliant in solving one problem and creating another. From that map, 953A(53E) will be the express of 53B while 953B(53F) will be express of 53A.

Also, since the 984 will run as 84A limited stop service only during rush hour while the current 84E service will operate at all times, there should be 2 branches that's not mention on that map.

[Xtrazsteve]

Also I would say the 193/future 993 is likely discontinued according to these tweets

 

 

 

[Ed T.]

10 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The 'F' branch naming needed some fixing. 52F is a local short turn branch while 53F is express.

I'm quite baffled why this would be an issue to anyone anywhere in the world.

[blue]

If letters and numbers are changed remember it will cause confusion and may "break" directions given to one

[Xtrazsteve]

13 hours ago, Ed T. said:

I'm quite baffled why this would be an issue to anyone anywhere in the world.

Just call it the improvement of the E suffix. The TTC used to introduce express branches with the next letter available before setting on E. Example of former express branches are 17C, 25B, 39C, 45C, 85D, 85F, 85G and 85H. Just TTC fixing the unbroken stuff as usual.

[Ed T.]

106A was an express. And one of the first ones, if not the first one.

Not to metion 39C, E, F, and G.

[Xtrazsteve]

Then there was 10 Van Horne, which was express, 10A was local. 

[Kobayashi]

Especially the 190 CITY CENTRE EXPRESS (the current 190/985) and 191 HIGHWAY 27 EXPRESS from 1990-1991.

Come to think of it based on the 2012 Ridership Statistics, other routes may or may not need an express service:

- 907 BATHURST EXPRESS
- 912 WEST MALL EXPRESS (*)
- 916 DANFORTH-McCOWAN EXPRESS (*)
- 917 BIRCHMOUNT EXPRESS (*)
- 936 FINCH WEST EXPRESS (Finch West station-Humberwood)
- 943 KENNEDY EXPRESS
- 947 LANSDOWNE EXPRESS (*)
- 963 OSSINGTON EXPRESS
- 968 WARDEN EXPRESS
- 976 ROYAL YORK SOUTH EXPRESS (*)

(*) - in doubt
 

[Xtrazsteve]

5 hours ago, BYD said:

Especially the 190 CITY CENTRE EXPRESS (the current 190/985) and 191 HIGHWAY 27 EXPRESS from 1990-1991.

Come to think of it based on the 2012 Ridership Statistics, other routes may or may not need an express service:

 

- 907 BATHURST EXPRESS

- 912 WEST MALL EXPRESS (*)

- 916 DANFORTH-McCOWAN EXPRESS (*)

- 917 BIRCHMOUNT EXPRESS (*)

- 936 FINCH WEST EXPRESS (Finch West station-Humberwood)

- 943 KENNEDY EXPRESS

- 947 LANSDOWNE EXPRESS (*)

- 963 OSSINGTON EXPRESS

- 968 WARDEN EXPRESS

- 976 ROYAL YORK SOUTH EXPRESS (*)

(*) - in doubt

 

Please stop cooking up number. Last time you already created false route numbers already. You can discuss possible express services without creating your own fantasy route numbers that can confused people in the future when they search this topic.

[MK78]

Has anyone ever heard if there is any talk about having a more localized branch of the 54 Lawrence east, which goes from the Lawrence East SRT station, east towards Starspray loop?

Sometimes you wait 20-25 minutes for a bus east of Orton Park, either going east towards Starspray or when coming back. Sometimes you see 2-3 buses bunched up.

It's simply too long a route IMO. It would be nice if they localized a branch that would only run between the SRT station & starspray.

[Kobayashi]

Looks like Warden Stn. may receive some bay changes: the 902 MARKHAM ROAD EXPRESS will be taking over Bay 4 used by 16 McCOWAN. Routes used by Bays 4-8 will be shifted to Bays 5-9.

Other changes:
- Don Mills and Kipling's bays will remain intact except for rebranding of the routes.
- At Scarborough Centre, the 21B/C BRIMLEY (northbound) will inherit the bay used by 190 (formerly used by 134 and 130) and the 985A SHEPPARD EAST EXPRESS (formerly 190) will take over the 21 NB bay. The 939 FINCH EXPRESS (formerly 199) and 913 PROGRESS EXPRESS will be using the same bays as before.