TTC Service Changes

[The Canadian Roadgeek]

I was taking the 25 Don Mills bus today and I saw the service improvement sign...

I just want to ask... what IS the difference between a frequency of 4 minutes and 3 minutes 36 seconds? I find this really pointless... Personally, I think the TTC are just trying to make something up? 4 minutes to 3 minutes 36 seconds? That's barely 24 seconds... Why does that even matter?

(Well maybe it does matter for the people at the terminus... i.e. Pape Station and Steeles (or 16th Avenue)). But a 24 seconds is nothing... First of all, the 25 Don Mills bus is not always on time anyways... sometimes up to 5 minutes late on a "normal-weather", "normal-traffic" day.... \

On a second thought, a 24-second difference may be changed with simply a traffic light signal. Besides, there are difference between people's watches...

To me, round it to the nearest minute is the best option to go with...

[502 Downtowner]

I was taking the 25 Don Mills bus today and I saw the service improvement sign...

I just want to ask... what IS the difference between a frequency of 4 minutes and 3 minutes 36 seconds? I find this really pointless... Personally, I think the TTC are just trying to make something up? 4 minutes to 3 minutes 36 seconds? That's barely 24 seconds... Why does that even matter?

(Well maybe it does matter for the people at the terminus... i.e. Pape Station and Steeles (or 16th Avenue)). But a 24 seconds is nothing... First of all, the 25 Don Mills bus is not always on time anyways... sometimes up to 5 minutes late on a "normal-weather", "normal-traffic" day.... \

On a second thought, a 24-second difference may be changed with simply a traffic light signal. Besides, there are difference between people's watches...

To me, round it to the nearest minute is the best option to go with...

Going from 4 to 3 minutes on a long route requires quite a few buses that may not always be available. With service improvements like these, the language translates to "we're throwing a few more buses on the route to try and relieve crowding."

[TTC1700]

41E wasn't that bad today. Although the Express AA's weren't working on some of the buses....

[The Canadian Roadgeek]

Going from 4 to 3 minutes on a long route requires quite a few buses that may not always be available. With service improvements like these, the language translates to "we're throwing a few more buses on the route to try and relieve crowding."

It was funny that the so-called improvement didn't do anything at all... 6 minutes frequency today and the bus is more crowded than usual...

[TDE]

I noticed 501 was significantly easier. But the 301 split seems rediculous. Well maybe not in the winter. :-S

Between Broadview & Dundas and St. Mike's Hospital, on a midday, I counted up to 16 Queen cars, most of them: heading for Neville.

I only noticed one short turn and that was a given (to Greenwood/Connaught). But service overall felt more frequent. As Brad mention IIRC, that there are more cars out daily than usual.

[Mike]

I noticed 501 was significantly easier. But the 301 split seems rediculous. Well maybe not in the winter. :-S

Between Broadview & Dundas and St. Mike's Hospital, on a midday, I counted up to 16 Queen cars, most of them: heading for Neville.

I only noticed one short turn and that was a given (to Greenwood/Connaught). But service overall felt more frequent. As Brad mention IIRC, that there are more cars out daily than usual.

I saw a westbound Bathurst short turn.

[shambala]

41E wasn't that bad today. Although the Express AA's weren't working on some of the buses....

Huh? Sure it was'nt bad. All the express buses were half empty while their regular 41B counterparts were left to carry crush loads all morning rush, not to mention people left at stops everywhere and more 41S than I've ever seen before, due to the fact people were bewildered at the sight of the 41E. No one had a clue where they were going, what route they took or what stops they made. Granted, it just started 2 days ago and TTC did a half assed job at informing anyone,(again) but now adding every other bus as an Express bus no one wants is not only idiotic but only doubles the existing headway creating more crush loads, not less. Maybe time will change that, maybe not.

[502 Downtowner]

Huh? Sure it was'nt bad. All the express buses were half empty while their regular 41B counterparts were left to carry crush loads all morning rush, not to mention people left at stops everywhere and more 41S than I've ever seen before, due to the fact people were bewildered at the sight of the 41E. No one had a clue where they were going, what route they took or what stops they made. Granted, it just started 2 days ago and TTC did a half assed job at informing anyone,(again) but now adding every other bus as an Express bus no one wants is not only idiotic but only doubles the existing headway creating more crush loads, not less. Maybe time will change that, maybe not.

I'm sure York U students were happier though, LOL. As much as I hate to say it, and as great as it is that the 41E is express all the way up to York, it probably would have been better if the 41E was modelled more like the 35E, going local north of Sheppard. I also disagree with the rather severe cutbacks on the regular 41B, especially since there are no other regular branches. The four branches on the local 35 allow for high enough frequencies to keep everybody happy.

[ttcgeek]

Riding the 145 yesterday on the first WB PM trip, there was no one but me the whole trip. Once we hit the Lake Shore, we only stopped about three times before we got to Park Lawn and Lake Shore.

[D40-90]

It will be empty untill TTC gets rid of the extra fare. Plus the Streetcar is not to far away with a regular fare, going to the same place(A block away or so).

[smallspy]

It will be empty untill TTC gets rid of the extra fare. Plus the Streetcar is not to far away with a regular fare, going to the same place(A block away or so).

Then why is the Beach express so popular?

Have you ever considered that there is more to life than just dollars and cents?

Dan

[D40-90]

143 has been there for a long time. Plus TTC said they were going to get rid of the extra fare. I'll just wait a month to see if there are any changes.

[ttcgeek]

143 has been there for a long time. Plus TTC said they were going to get rid of the extra fare. I'll just wait a month to see if there are any changes.

IIRC, I read up somewhere that they would eliminate the extra fare on routes 141, 142 and 144 to help relieve the loads on the YUS. They would keep the express fare on the 143 and 145.

[D40-90]

Oh yea and not 43 cause it's not parallel to Y-U-S. Almost forgot, thanks!

[Gil]

IIRC, I read up somewhere that they would eliminate the extra fare on routes 141, 142 and 144 to help relieve the loads on the YUS. They would keep the express fare on the 143 and 145.

The premium fare on the 145 is probably the only thing that will allow it to reasonably pay for the service. The route's been requested year after year and rejected since it wasn't economically viable. Given the development in the Humber Bay area they thought that there was enough potential to launch the service. Given that the parallel routes will soon drop the premium fare, the TTC may be looking at ways to top up what they'll be losing next year in terms of fare revenue.

[Orion V]

Quick question; since TTC can now afford to run routes 169 and 42A all the way to Sunday nights, why can't it be enough to run 143 and 145 as regular fare routes? The argument here is that these routes need to be extra fare to get the money back to operate them because not enough people ride them but what about 42A and 169? These routes during late evenings are empty (42A east of Kennedy). And though I haven't seen in person but 117 on weekends as well and probably others that got extended service after RGS Part 2.

[Mike]

 

 

Quick question; since TTC can now afford to run routes 169 and 42A all the way to Sunday nights, why can't it be enough to run 143 and 145 as regular fare routes? The argument here is that these routes need to be extra fare to get the money back to operate them because not enough people ride them but what about 42A and 169? These routes during late evenings are empty (42A east of Kennedy). And though I haven't seen in person but 117 on weekends as well and probably others that got extended service after RGS Part 2.

117 runs only Monday-Friday until 7 p.m.

[wil9402]

It will be empty untill TTC gets rid of the extra fare. Plus the Streetcar is not to far away with a regular fare, going to the same place(A block away or so).

That extra fare though would cut your ride time in half basically. What your saying could be said about the other premium express routes as well. Give 145 a couple weeks and I'm sure it will slowly start gaining some ridership. People just have to become more aware of it.

[smallspy]

Quick question; since TTC can now afford to run routes 169 and 42A all the way to Sunday nights, why can't it be enough to run 143 and 145 as regular fare routes? The argument here is that these routes need to be extra fare to get the money back to operate them because not enough people ride them but what about 42A and 169?

Simple - all of the routes being operated under the RGS serve areas where there wouldn't otherwise be service.

The Premium Express routes are overlapping services, and wouldn't have extended hours as part of the RGS. In fact, the TTC doesn't consider them part of the normal route structure at all.

Dan

[Orion V]

Simple - all of the routes being operated under the RGS serve areas where there wouldn't otherwise be service.

The Premium Express routes are overlapping services, and wouldn't have extended hours as part of the RGS. In fact, the TTC doesn't consider them part of the normal route structure at all.

Dan

Oh, never thought of that...

[ttcgeek]

Here's a question: Why aren't drivers on the 501E/W allowed to service stops along the loopings (i.e., Parliament, Dundas, Broadview [well, I did get on a car at the NW stop of Broadview and Queen], Shaw, King and Dufferin)?

IMO, if they weren't allowed to serve stops there, why would they bother posting the looping? I tried getting on a 501E at King/Dufferin and was rejected.

Can't they leave a note saying that they will not serve stops or, why did they even post what the looping is? They could have use said that the 501W would go out of service at Parliament and then re-enter service at Broadview, or, the 501E would go out of service at Shaw and re-enter service at Dufferin.

EDIT: Looking at the description of the 501 on the TTC website I found this littler bugger at the bottom of the page:

All streetcars on the route serve local streetcar stops along the route.

Link can be found here.

[Mike]

Pretty spotty service on the 501.

There were seemingly many streetcars on the route in both directions - I was at Victoria about 6 p.m.

First there were 2 Neville Park cars in a row (although one was short turned to Kingston Rd.) these were followed by 2 Parliament cars. I would have preferred them to alternate, but what can you do.

In the opposite direction there were 2 501 Bathurst cars in a row. 1 CLRV, the other an ALRV. The Bathrust seems like it is a much more common short turn now than it was before the split. I see many of them through the day.

[MiExpress]

Here's a question: Why aren't drivers on the 501E/W allowed to service stops along the loopings (i.e., Parliament, Dundas, Broadview [well, I did get on a car at the NW stop of Broadview and Queen], Shaw, King and Dufferin)?

IMO, if they weren't allowed to serve stops there, why would they bother posting the looping? I tried getting on a 501E at King/Dufferin and was rejected.

Can't they leave a note saying that they will not serve stops or, why did they even post what the looping is? They could have use said that the 501W would go out of service at Parliament and then re-enter service at Broadview, or, the 501E would go out of service at Shaw and re-enter service at Dufferin.

EDIT: Looking at the description of the 501 on the TTC website I found this littler bugger at the bottom of the page:

Link can be found here.

Maybe it's because the route's only split on weekdays, and only for a month - they probably want to avoid having someone thinking that the split is 7 days a week and longer than a month, and in either of these scenarios stand at say, King/Dufferin waiting for a 501 car that will never come.

[Articulated]

Pretty spotty service on the 501.

There were seemingly many streetcars on the route in both directions - I was at Victoria about 6 p.m.

First there were 2 Neville Park cars in a row (although one was short turned to Kingston Rd.) these were followed by 2 Parliament cars. I would have preferred them to alternate, but what can you do.

In the opposite direction there were 2 501 Bathurst cars in a row. 1 CLRV, the other an ALRV. The Bathrust seems like it is a much more common short turn now than it was before the split. I see many of them through the day.

My ride of the 501 from yesterday (Tuesday):

The service between Yonge and Shaw seemed frequent but not exactly evenly spaced. My car got crushloaded from west of University (can't remember where it got so busy) until Roncesvalles. We passed no 501s between Roncesvalles and 2 stops after Humber Loop, with no cars in the loop either... so service on the termini haven't exactly improved (an ALRV and CLRV packed was the first pass).

At Long Branch, let mine and another streetcar go, then a 20 minute wait (plus 5 layover) and finally we get another car. Only good thing I can say was that this delay probably wasn't related to the length or operation of the route, just the driver over-enforcing fares on a POP route.

[smallspy]

Here's a question: Why aren't drivers on the 501E/W allowed to service stops along the loopings (i.e., Parliament, Dundas, Broadview [well, I did get on a car at the NW stop of Broadview and Queen], Shaw, King and Dufferin)?

As you've found out, they are allowed (and are supposed) to serve the stops off of Queen. This goes for all streetcars that may not be on a normal routing.

The drivers may have a layover and want a little peace and quiet - that may be why they are kicking everyone off. That and the layover points on both loopings is on the "front" side of the loop - Parliament for west-end cars and Shaw for east-end.

Dan