The Canadian Roadgeek

Anyone create their own transit system?

4,488 posts in this topic

13 hours ago, M. Parsons said:

I gather though, that a LED lighting circuit would be possible right from line voltage.

Would it be? Admittedly, it's possible I might have been looking at the wrong pages, but in my research I haven't found any LEDs rated for a higher voltage than 5 VDC. Even an LED bulb that you can drop into a household light fixture has a final output of something in that neighbourhood of 5 VDC, and I presume they have some type of power transformer inside to convert the mains input to a low VDC output. I presume if the original wiring from the T3s was maintained, there would be some power conversion at play to change line voltage to something that the bulb can use, so I'm doubtful as to whether said application would take up any more space than the original fluorescent tubes.

13 hours ago, M. Parsons said:

I believe I did find a reference to a motor generator set (I'm sure you're familiar, PCC Guy, with the discussion elsewhere on the board about low voltage power converters for rail vehicles... that was why I was looking), so when I used "line voltage" above that might be more so in reference to much older streetcar technology... pre PCC when it was straight line voltage that went into the lighting circuits. PCC technology might well have been the lighting circuits powered through a M-G set which I think theoretically makes florescent or LED lighting a more viable option.

Funnily enough, that's actually not the case. You are correct that the MG set was used to produce low voltage power for the car's various on board systems (North American cars were rated at 32 V IIRC, Tatras at 24 V), but the interior lighting was not one of those functions. The way I had it explained to me at Halton County (which is backed up by some documentation I have about T3s) was that the interior bulbs were rated at 220 V and were wired in series, with the power supply coming directly from the overhead wires (which was a good way for the driver to verify whether he had power or not). A resistor was used to bring the overhead power down to the required voltage. You've already seen this quote but that's essentially how old New York subway cars worked too.

Later, post communist Tatras were wired in a similar way to the R-26/28/29 rebuilds - a solid state converter replaces the MG set, and produces AC (at 24 V IIRC) to power the interior lights. I suspect this might be a more optimal circuit to drop LED bulbs in to, and so there's a chance that Newman's T3Gs got this set up when they were rebuilt in 2010 anyway (even though LEDs were 7 years away). That is the set up that Bratislava's rebuilt K2 cars got, in any case (pre-rebuild, their lighting set up was also run from overhead voltage).

Quote

Why do the car lights blink on the R-33/R-36 World's Fair/Flushing Line cars but not the other Redbirds?

The original carbody lighting design called for the lights to be run directly off the 600V supply (with a polarity reverser relay when florescents came along). A relay called the ELR (Emergency Lighting Relay) was also across the line. When the 600V failed (car crosses a contact rail gap), the relay goes off and the normally-closed contacts of the relay apply 37V battery voltage to a set of emergency, or "battery" lights. On the IRT redbirds, these are incandescent bulbs located along the center of the car. There are some inside the long fluorescent glass fixture, and there is one each in the center of each axiflow fan.

When the R-26/R-28/R-29 fleet was overhauled by MK, the battery lights were removed from the center of the fans and PA speakers replaced them. On these cars, a solid-state converter replaces the older motor-generator set for converting 600V to battery voltage, and the same converter unit also contains a solid state lighting inverter to take the battery voltage, chop it to AC, and step it up to drive the fluorescent bulbs. When 600 goes off on these cars, the lights stay on fully for up to about 30 seconds. In prolonged power-out, the inverter gradually shuts down banks of lights until only two lights are on in the entire car.

The Flushing cars were rebuilt in 1985 by Coney Island, before the more thorough car overhaul program was devised. They left a lot of "old technology" behind, including the Motor-Generator and the classic SMEE pneumatic units. That's why those are the only cars that still go "puff" when the doors close, and why the lights still blink out across third rail gaps.

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STÎ UPDATE

Bus 45-102N will be wrapped to the colors of the Muslim flag, with text saying "We stand with Muslims - Nous soutenons les Musulmans". This wrap is a collaboration with the Québec City mosque, which was attacked this winter, killing 6. We are currently in negotiation with all the TAs in Québec to have one bus per company with that wrap.

Thanks for listening.

Olivier

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3 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

Would it be? Admittedly, it's possible I might have been looking at the wrong pages, but in my research I haven't found any LEDs rated for a higher voltage than 5 VDC. Even an LED bulb that you can drop into a household light fixture has a final output of something in that neighbourhood of 5 VDC, and I presume they have some type of power transformer inside to convert the mains input to a low VDC output. I presume if the original wiring from the T3s was maintained, there would be some power conversion at play to change line voltage to something that the bulb can use, so I'm doubtful as to whether said application would take up any more space than the original fluorescent tubes.

I can't say I know how LED tubes are designed, but, certainly in a household bulb all of the power electronics to regulate power to the LED's is built into a bulb. 

As a result, with a standard screw in bulb I would imagine that you'd just need a bulb designed for the input voltage in the lighting circuit from the overhead. 
If it's a fluorescent tube, I think you'd probably have to replace the ballast with a external LED driver unless the tube is designed to accept the line voltage based upon how the LED are wired up inside of the tube (ie if there's series circuits and what not).
Some reading: http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/environment/the-subtle-circuitry-behind-led-lighting
https://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/understanding-led-drivers.pdf

I think with modern electronics, there's no reason why shouldn't be able to accomplish what you're aiming for!

3 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

Funnily enough, that's actually not the case. You are correct that the MG set was used to produce low voltage power for the car's various on board systems (North American cars were rated at 32 V IIRC, Tatras at 24 V), but the interior lighting was not one of those functions. The way I had it explained to me at Halton County (which is backed up by some documentation I have about T3s) was that the interior bulbs were rated at 220 V and were wired in series, with the power supply coming directly from the overhead wires (which was a good way for the driver to verify whether he had power or not). A resistor was used to bring the overhead power down to the required voltage. You've already seen this quote but that's essentially how old New York subway cars worked too.

Later, post communist Tatras were wired in a similar way to the R-26/28/29 rebuilds - a solid state converter replaces the MG set, and produces AC (at 24 V IIRC) to power the interior lights. I suspect this might be a more optimal circuit to drop LED bulbs in to, and so there's a chance that Newman's T3Gs got this set up when they were rebuilt in 2010 anyway (even though LEDs were 7 years away). That is the set up that Bratislava's rebuilt K2 cars got, in any case (pre-rebuild, their lighting set up was also run from overhead voltage).

Good, so my original thought that the Brill's/ PCC were running off of line voltage was correct. That was primarily what I recalled. I'll have to find that picture of the bulb as it would have the voltage on it. I would imagine it's 220V though as I would imagine a Brill trolleycoach and PCC would have been wired similar.

Edmonton's first U-2's were equipped with LED's in 2010 so it's not out of the realm of possibilities that Newman's were equipped at that time. We had two or three buses retrofitted with LED lighting earlier than that. I just rode one in the last few days in fact. The U-2's lighting is more of a strip... which is the the common set up these days for replacing fluorescent tubes. The buses have tubes that seem to have discs of LED's throughout the tube, so, you have brighter spots and dimmer spots along the length of the tube. There might be a photo on this board somewhere of 6001's set up... but that was A LONG time ago I would have posted that. Probably 2006-07ish.

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23 hours ago, M. Parsons said:

If it's a fluorescent tube, I think you'd probably have to replace the ballast with a external LED driver unless the tube is designed to accept the line voltage based upon how the LED are wired up inside of the tube (ie if there's series circuits and what not).
Some reading: http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/environment/the-subtle-circuitry-behind-led-lighting
https://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/understanding-led-drivers.pdf

I think with modern electronics, there's no reason why shouldn't be able to accomplish what you're aiming for!

These are excellent resources, thanks for the links!

23 hours ago, M. Parsons said:

he U-2's lighting is more of a strip... which is the the common set up these days for replacing fluorescent tubes.

When you say "strip", you're referring to the shape of the casing, right? I found this video of a U2 in operation in Edmonton and the lighting case looks exactly like what some old Tatras in Bratislava received back in the early 2000s.

(Incidentally, the lighting blends in so well that I'd have never realized they were LEDs if I hadn't been informed before hand).

The T3's original lighting was set up like this:

t3sucsint.jpg

The new lighting kits they received in the 2000s meanwhile look like this (unrelated, but this set up is wired in parallel rather than series I believe):

t3sec.jpg

The set up for Newman's cars that I was envisioning was basically one of these popped into a similar shaped case as shown in the second image I linked. I don't exactly know whether the U2s used this, but the set up seen on those cars is basically what I was envisioning in the first place.

Fluo-45W_LED-17W.jpg

Cheers for bringing this to my attention!

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7 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

When you say "strip", you're referring to the shape of the casing, right?

Fluo-45W_LED-17W.jpg

What I was referring to was that exact style in the image you posted.

I'm working on seeing if any images of our first LED installations exist and I've found one thread so far for the lighting that was installed in 4747 and 6001. The links don't work any more, but, a Google site search yielded this: http://ledsmart.com/index.php/portfolio-item/edmonton-transit/
As you can see there's other transportation related installations as well linked from that page.

LED Smart is an Edmonton company in fact. They're about a 15 minute bus ride from where I live. 

After searching the living hell out of the CPTDB, it finally occurred to me I probably put the pics of the LED lighting installed on a bus on my website... sure enough... interior pics of 6002. http://barp.ca/bus/alberta/ets/2007de40lfrgm/index.html

This may or may not be a rare version of this LED lighting product from LED Smart. Certainly in Edmonton it's only the 3 buses with that style.

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STÎ NEWS!

The aforementioned negotiations with the Québec TAs got successful, one bus for each major TA will be wrapped to the colors of the Muslim flag.

These buses are the ones wrapped:

  • OC Transpo (close enough to Québec to be included in the negotiations): 6396
  • Réseau de Transport de la Capitale: 1501N
  • Réseau de Transport de Longueuil: 21415
  • Société de Transport de Montréal: 36-030
  • Société de Transport de Laval: 1414
  • Société de Transport de Lévis: 1204
  • Société de Transport de l'Outaouais: 1103
  • Société de Transport de Sherbrooke: 64101
  • Société de Transport du Saguenay: 1401
  • Société de Transport de Trois-Rivières: 1201

Thanks for reading.

Olivier

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5 minutes ago, Odieville2 said:

STÎ NEWS!

The aforementioned negotiations with the Québec TAs got successful, one bus for each major TA will be wrapped to the colors of the Muslim flag.

These buses are the ones wrapped:

  • OC Transpo (close enough to Québec to be included in the negotiations): 6396
  • Réseau de Transport de la Capitale: 1501N
  • Réseau de Transport de Longueuil: 21415
  • Société de Transport de Montréal: 36-030
  • Société de Transport de Laval: 1414
  • Société de Transport de Lévis: 1204
  • Société de Transport de l'Outaouais: 1103
  • Société de Transport de Sherbrooke: 64101
  • Société de Transport du Saguenay: 1401
  • Société de Transport de Trois-Rivières: 1201

Thanks for reading.

Olivier

"The Muslim flag"?

You do realize such a thing doesn't exist right? just saying...

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Just now, Around the Horn said:

"The Muslim flag"?

You do realize such a thing doesn't exist right? just saying...

What I meant by "Muslim flag" is in fact the "Muslim symbol". Sorry for the confusion. ^^;

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2 hours ago, Odieville2 said:

What I meant by "Muslim flag" is in fact the "Muslim symbol". Sorry for the confusion. ^^;

Ok, so basically they will have a star and crescent, and be green? (Green is often seen as a color of good luck by Muslims, many Muslim majority countries have that color on their flag!)

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Just now, Ra'akone said:

Ok, so basically they will have a star and crescent, and be green? (Green is often seen as a color of good luck by Muslims, many Muslim majority countries have that color on their flag!)

Yes.

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From the LePasi Archives, March 19th, 2017-

St. Patrick's Day Parade - Buses and Streetcars rerouted!

Today in downtown Royal City, Nu'u-Sara, Ai'a'ivea is O'a'ivea, with our St. Patrick's Day Parade! This means, however, that all streetcar and bus routes are rerouted. Key things to bear in mind...

1) Certain streetcars are rerouted into the streetcar tunnel that serves Victory Station. Others will turn around.

2) Buses that otherwise use the reserved lanes on Victory Street may either pass through the bus tunnels at the station, or even through the Taxi Tube (certain exits of both are closed due to the parade!) Others will stop short of the station.

3) Due to this, for this day only, from 11AM (an hour before the parade starts) until 6PM, LePasi tickets and passes WILL be honored aboard AOS (subway) trains between Victory Station and one station in all directions. This only applies to the AOS trains, and certain commuter trains that use the AOS platforms, this does not apply to the majority of commuter trains, nor regional nor intercity trains.

Also, watch the parade for the LePasi, Meadowlands Country, Kiribus, and AOS floats. And take a picture and send it to us on our website, the best picture will win a 1 year Octopus card.

PLEASE NOTE THAT AS THIS IS AN ARCHIVE POST, PRIZES HAVE BEEN GIVEN OUT A LONG TIME AGO, ENTRY DETAILS NOT GIVEN, WHAT IS THE POINT?

Also, keep in mind certain Irish pubs are giving discounts to those with Octopus cards, public transport has its advantages!

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Not much news on my front...

however, I am looking into a "totem" design for station entrances which would have the names of the lines on their color backgrounds attached to a stainless steel pole, with a green lamp on top.

Something like this:

17309671_284824461951028_701463651531501

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LVTA

Its been a week from the last update.

Due to budget shortfalls, Central Line Phase 1 construction is being delayed. The estimated completion has been pushed back to August.

 

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