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New Flyer Xcelsior


Halifax_Route10
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I don't know so much about being junk. But, they were a premium bus in an environment where lowest bid usually wins. As a result, they just couldn't get the orders.

Metro Transit was going to get 28 Inveros back in '02, but they changed their order to D40LF's after hearing of reliability issues from other agencies. But I think they'd jump on the bandwagon with this model if the price was low enough, and if they start making an artic version...

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Well, in the school bus market, the Thomas Saf-T-Liner C2 was initially marketed as a premium school bus as compared to the FS-65, however, the Saf-T-Liner C2 became successful enough that Thomas no longer needed the FS-65, and thus the FS-65 was discontinued.

So, if the New Flyer Xcelsior lives up to its promises, it can become a success. Still, New Flyer will have to underbid other manufacturers in order for the Xcelsior to be a success. As stated, the Invero failed as it was too ambitious and expensive to be competitive in the transit bus market.

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I thought the Invero was a well planned bus that simply did not catch on, probably because of their cost in comparison to the D40LF. The newer ones are pretty reliable, it's the older ones, like LTC and Burlington have that are junkier. But then again, what bus model wasn't crap in it's first few years?

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Mechanically, how different are the Xcelsiors from the D40LF/D40LFr's? They do look pretty sharp, even though they look like an Orion 7 NG.

Maybe assuming VIVA ever comes back, they may purchase an articulated version of the Xcelsior. They've got to be cheaper than Van Hools and parts won't be hard to come by if they're mechanically similar to the D40LFs that YRT has been buying for the past five years.

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I thought the Invero was a well planned bus that simply did not catch on, probably because of their cost in comparison to the D40LF. The newer ones are pretty reliable, it's the older ones, like LTC and Burlington have that are junkier. But then again, what bus model wasn't crap in it's first few years?

Our 2007 Inveros are just as junky as our 2003/04 Inveros if not worse, enough said.

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Our 2007 Inveros are just as junky as our 2003/04 Inveros if not worse, enough said.

I've talked to many people who have ridden new OC Inveros and their impression of them was much better than the older ones ... so is that simply your opinion seeing how opposed to lowfloors you are?

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I've talked to many people who have ridden new OC Inveros and their impression of them was much better than the older ones ... so is that simply your opinion seeing how opposed to lowfloors you are?

I admit they were good during the first few weeks, but after that they became just like the rest of them.

4201 is good though amazingly, it looks like it was rebuilt as it rides like the 2007 ones did during their first few weeks. It also smelt a bit like new.

But I wasn't really talking about ride quality when I stated that, I was talking more about service calls. Those 2007 ones get just as many service calls as the older ones. I even got Alain Mercier to admit that they are junk when talking to him once.

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Early Classics had horrible problems with sheet metal rusting and various mechanical issues.

Toronto's aren't that early and they still had many of the same problems.

Dan

Interesting. We still have 5 of our original 1983 Classics, which are still on the road even after all our '85 and '87 Classics were retired. They seem to still run fine and I haven't seen that much rust despite not being repainted for the last few years. Maybe they fixed something in the rebuild?

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I had a chance to view the XCELSIOR today at the APTA Expo. Quite a nice-looking bus -- it's better to see it in person than just judge it by a picture.

One thing though...

The builder's plate read "DE40LFR." So is NFI going to replace the LFR series with XCELSIOR? or is XCELSIOR just a "high-end" version of the LFR?

CMBC's first E40LFR (2101) is officially labeled as an 'E40LF' on it's builder's plate. I assume the same practice is being followed by the Xcelsior, labeling it as an DE40LFR (although it's an 'upgrade' I guess to the LFR).

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Thanks. That's twice we agree on something. What's in the water? :)

Anyway, you and I seem to be the only ones who like those inveros and I'm not sure why. People say they are junk? What's wrong with them? We only have 10 of them here, they are still 40' in length and none of the seats is any more crowded than those in the D40LF. Surely they could adopt the seating plan for this or future new models?

Hey, you forgot me; the D40LF/VII/Newlook hater. Anything that's not of those three models I'll like! Even the VI and Solo. I'll rather be on a Solo and get bounced off my seat on a pothole than on a smooth D40LF.

It seems this Xcel is a third high capacity LF bus. The only other LF 40ft buses that are high cap are the VII/Invero.

I don't know where you guys get the 50 seats thing but the Brochure for the Invero says a max cap of 44 seats.

Don't forget about the other "flop" bus; the famous CompoBus from NABI 45C-LFW which, after 3 years of hiatus, was revived in 2008 thankfully from LACMTA. Now granted, this was in the US where systems are rich and can afford expensive buses...

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Don't forget about the other "flop" bus; the famous CompoBus from NABI 45C-LFW which, after 3 years of hiatus, was revived in 2008 thankfully from LACMTA. Now granted, this was in the US where systems are rich and can afford expensive buses...

The LACMTA is planning on ordering 800 of them, which could boost its popularity somewhat.

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CMBC's first E40LFR (2101) is officially labeled as an 'E40LF' on it's builder's plate. I assume the same practice is being followed by the Xcelsior, labeling it as an DE40LFR (although it's an 'upgrade' I guess to the LFR).

This may or may not be true, but I heard NFI initially wanted to make the LFR their standard design (the X##LF). It may explain why that bus being the first LFR design, was designated LF. However with TAs still wanting the old style, the old style remains and the LFR style was designated LFR.

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Are you an Engineer??? Im aspiring to be one, and was wondering if you had anymore pointers. Im being serious here.

I do realize that the marketing brochure might not be acurate to the enth degree, but its all most of us can go by. And surely it most be acurate in some respect, pending the actual testing phase of course.

I gave up the EE track a long while ago to pursue journalism instead. At the companies I worked at, engineering wasn't so much as "how can we solve this problem?" but "how can we take another $0.02 cents out of this part to make (insert OEM auto manufacturer here) happy?"

The result wasn't engineering but depressing cost cutting. Around the time my whole department was laid off, I felt it was time for a life change anyhow. Seeing as I spent all day driving a GT-R, C63 AMG, M3, and a 911 Carrera 4S, I'd say I made a decent choice.

Brochures *may* be accurate, but only to a point - and you're taking the OEM at their word for what's printed (which, it so happens, is usually followed up with boilerplate saying they're legally able to change specs/colors/shapes/everything without notice). The last time I took an OEM at their word was when Millennium told me it was re-starting the NJT order and was doing fine. See how that went?

Rule one for engineering: test, don't trust. You may come off as a crabby engineer as a result, but you'll be a competent crabby engineer. Those are the ones that advance quickly.

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Yes, they are more crowded. I've been on Winnipeg's, Ottawa's, and Burlington's. Nice to shoot, butal to ride. I'm also 6' 3" tall.

I don't know so much about being junk. But, they were a premium bus in an environment where lowest bid usually wins. As a result, they just couldn't get the orders.

Ditto. Try sitting at the rear section at the Inferno, there's isn't much space to sit. I've already stepped a guy's foot by accident when I was exiting from the rear. It's a tight squeeze.

Well, it's still consider junk, as I've mentioned alot of plastic panel, rear door and driver hates the push-button operated door, which is why Ottawa went back to the 180 degree door control handle and few systems switch the steering wheel style.

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There are a pics from the APTA show in the APTA thread in the up coming events section. The Xcelsior look sick with the headlights on.

I gave up the EE track a long while ago to pursue journalism instead. At the companies I worked at, engineering wasn't so much as "how can we solve this problem?" but "how can we take another $0.02 cents out of this part to make (insert OEM auto manufacturer here) happy?"

The result wasn't engineering but depressing cost cutting. Around the time my whole department was laid off, I felt it was time for a life change anyhow. Seeing as I spent all day driving a GT-R, C63 AMG, M3, and a 911 Carrera 4S, I'd say I made a decent choice.

Brochures *may* be accurate, but only to a point - and you're taking the OEM at their word for what's printed (which, it so happens, is usually followed up with boilerplate saying they're legally able to change specs/colors/shapes/everything without notice). The last time I took an OEM at their word was when Millennium told me it was re-starting the NJT order and was doing fine. See how that went?

Rule one for engineering: test, don't trust. You may come off as a crabby engineer as a result, but you'll be a competent crabby engineer. Those are the ones that advance quickly.

I try to test as much as possible, but thanks for the pointers and advice. I interpreted the info in the brochure as solid (at least for now) because NFI cant outright lie.

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Ditto. Try sitting at the rear section at the Inferno, there's isn't much space to sit. I've already stepped a guy's foot by accident when I was exiting from the rear. It's a tight squeeze.

Well, it's still consider junk, as I've mentioned alot of plastic panel, rear door and driver hates the push-button operated door, which is why Ottawa went back to the 180 degree door control handle and few systems switch the steering wheel style.

I've done that many times when commuting to school. What was really bad is when I hit someone in the head with my 80 pound book bag. That was really bad of me. After that I gave up trying to take the bus to school as I got tired of hitting or stepping on people by accident and just bought my self a $20 bike that now gets me to school quicker without stepping on or hitting anyone.

Another reason is because they canceled the route that was usually a D40 when going to school, so I didn't mind riding those as I hit no one on them.

I've probably saved hundreds of dollars, lots of minutes commuting (now my commute is 7 minutes exact instead of 15-30), and countless number of people from being hit by making that move.

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I actually like the OC Inveros. But they are awful when they crushloaded.
I can guarantee you won't like them after riding them every day for 2 years straight. I used to like them, now I'm thinking to my self "wtf was I thinking".
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I can guarantee you won't like them after riding them every day for 2 years straight. I used to like them, now I'm thinking to my self "wtf was I thinking".

I've rode 'em since OC Transpo got 4201 in the early 2003 on the 7 St.Laurent, and many years later, I still hate Low Floor buses (I'll give the VI a chance Mike, no need on explaining why VI are a bit better due to the seats being comfy)

This bus model looks crappy. When I first saw it, I thought it was a joke. Please New Flyer, don't make a another new model look like a NovaBus LFS or a VanHool product.

Point55. :)

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CMBC's first E40LFR (2101) is officially labeled as an 'E40LF' on it's builder's plate. I assume the same practice is being followed by the Xcelsior, labeling it as an DE40LFR (although it's an 'upgrade' I guess to the LFR).

Some of Edmonton's massive order of 231 D40LFR's have builders plates that read D40LF.

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