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New Flyer Xcelsior

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Some of you may have already seen this, but New Flyer introduced a new Urban Transit Bus today, the Xcelsior! (cue the trumpets) It's supposedly lighter and has better fuel economy. Looks very promising!

http://www.newflyer.com/index/08-10-06-xcelsior-launch The announcement

http://www.newflyer.com/index/xcelsior-pho...and-information Lots of pictures

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It was unvieled at APTA. Is anyone actually going to APTA?? I need to see some large scale pics of this thing!!! This design is spectacular. Even though it takes many of its cues from the LFR, I think this design has promise.

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I think its the New Flyer Version of the VII NG

it definitely has similar styling cues.

i like this design a lot! i like that they did away with the planetary rear axle.

i'll be keeping a close eye on this one.....

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I'll agree with the above posters on how it looks like the VII NG now...

We all thought that Orion copied from NFI's Restyled design when creating the NG... but now we see that NFI is copying MORE from the NG for the Xcel.

Looking at the announcement, I'm getting slightly afraid about this model, as it looks to be following along the same 'revolutionary' lines as the D40i...

Wonder if NFI will discontinue the D40LF and/or D40LFR and move to Xcel only like Orion, or keep D40LF and replace LFR and/or BRT with Xcel... or move LFR to main model and Xcel is the new 'restyled' model?

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New bus model?? give me a break... i call it the DE40LFRNG.

looks just like any other "re-designed" bus to me.

Are you saying you don't like it?

How about the fact that it's lighter, has a wider front door, changed rear axle, and rooftop AC? Of course it's going to be a redesign in some way or another, it's the same story with almost every other manufacturer, but I think this is more than a simple redesign. How about when GM took the New Look and "re-designed" it into the Classic?

I think, at least, that the Xcelsior helps get rid of the bus-in-a-box look compared to the D40LF. This is probably their attempt to make a more successful Invero type bus, while copying a few things from Orion and their own BRT model along the way. However, unless they discontinue the D40LF, I think they're going to have a hard time selling it with the probably increased price tag. However, maybe the savings in fuel might be an incentive...

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Wow, very interesting! Hope it doesn't flop like the Invero.

Hope so too, this will interest if anyone wants a BRT route!

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I'll agree with the above posters on how it looks like the VII NG now...

We all thought that Orion copied from NFI's Restyled design when creating the NG... but now we see that NFI is copying MORE from the NG for the Xcel.

Looking at the announcement, I'm getting slightly afraid about this model, as it looks to be following along the same 'revolutionary' lines as the D40i...

Wonder if NFI will discontinue the D40LF and/or D40LFR and move to Xcel only like Orion, or keep D40LF and replace LFR and/or BRT with Xcel... or move LFR to main model and Xcel is the new 'restyled' model?

In my opinion this bus looks a hole lot more like the LFR and the BRT style bus put together. I don't really see the NG in it at all. But honestly, a lot of you are like little kids with your "Ooooo, he copied him" bullcrap. Those statements only end up turning into needless arguments that we can do without on this board. The way I see it no one copied anyone. All three models in question all look significantly different, sure, both companies may have grabbed ideas from each other for their products, but that doesn't necessarily mean they copied each other.

Who really knows, the model hasn't gotten off the ground yet, so just wait until some orders come in before you start speculating.

It's been said that NFI doesn't plan on discontinuing the LF anytime soon, so why would they discontinue their other models?

Anyways, I think this model looks promising and I hope MT orders it for their next order.

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I'll agree with the above posters on how it looks like the VII NG now...

We all thought that Orion copied from NFI's Restyled design when creating the NG... but now we see that NFI is copying MORE from the NG for the Xcel.

Looking at the announcement, I'm getting slightly afraid about this model, as it looks to be following along the same 'revolutionary' lines as the D40i...

Wonder if NFI will discontinue the D40LF and/or D40LFR and move to Xcel only like Orion, or keep D40LF and replace LFR and/or BRT with Xcel... or move LFR to main model and Xcel is the new 'restyled' model?

At least the VII NG is using the same shell as their old VII, only except the ends and interior panels. This Xcelsior is completely new design. Would like to know what materials they've build to make it lighter.

Well, the Invero was more of flimsy, plastic build and dealing with their electrical system. With production delay and higher cost, it's not affordable to keep the model longer.

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it definitely has similar styling cues.

i like this design a lot! i like that they did away with the planetary rear axle.

i'll be keeping a close eye on this one.....

What's the difference between the current axles, and this new single-reduction?

In my opinion this bus looks a hole lot more like the LFR and the BRT style bus put together. I don't really see the NG in it at all. But honestly, a lot of you are like little kids with your "Ooooo, he copied him" bullcrap. Those statements only end up turning into needless arguments that we can do without on this board. The way I see it no one copied anyone. All three models in question all look significantly different, sure, both companies may have grabbed ideas from each other for their products, but that doesn't necessarily mean they copied each other.

Who really knows, the model hasn't gotten off the ground yet, so just wait until some orders come in before you start speculating.

It's been said that NFI doesn't plan on discontinuing the LF anytime soon, so why would they discontinue their other models?

Anyways, I think this model looks promising and I hope MT orders it for their next order.

I agree. This new model looks like an increased evolution on the current NFI products, which makes perfect snse. And the reason why this model is supposed to be so much better than the LFR/LFA is because its platform is completely different. I think that was the point in designing this bus. We all know that NFI has been actively persuing technologies that will make its buses more efficient, so they designed a bus thats lighter.

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I generally like the design -- but I've got a few criticisms as well.

I honestly think the headlights look rather cheap, they appear to have been artificially "grafted" on. I prefer the LFR-series' "dot" headlights over these ones.

I also don't really like the V-shaped indentation on the front panel. What's the point of that? It doesn't seem to have any function at first glance. But the addition of a bike rack will obscure that (as well as the rest of the front of the bus, unfortunately.)

I'm not sure that I like the design of the side window at the rear. Either square off the corner or make it a gradual curve, but the cut-off corner looks awkward.

That being said, I'm surprised that NFI is launching this product when they've already got the LFR and LFA series. It seems to be somewhere in the middle between the two.

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I generally like the design -- but I've got a few criticisms as well.

I honestly think the headlights look rather cheap, they appear to have been artificially "grafted" on. I prefer the LFR-series' "dot" headlights over these ones.

I also don't really like the V-shaped indentation on the front panel. What's the point of that? It doesn't seem to have any function at first glance. But the addition of a bike rack will obscure that (as well as the rest of the front of the bus, unfortunately.)

I'm not sure that I like the design of the side window at the rear. Either square off the corner or make it a gradual curve, but the cut-off corner looks awkward.

That being said, I'm surprised that NFI is launching this product when they've already got the LFR and LFA series. It seems to be somewhere in the middle between the two.

Someone had reported earlier that NFI was working on a way to make the pillars between the windows smaller, and with this they have. I believe it came up when a demo of the LFA was at Mississauga transit. So NFI has hinted at the Xcel's introduction for some time. NFI has also been working on ways to make H2 power more effective, and the Xcel might be the interim result of a joint project between NFI and Ballard fuels cells (just speculation....). NFI and ballard are developing a shuttle bus specifically designed for H2 power (eg reduced weight, etc).

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I generally like the design -- but I've got a few criticisms as well.

I honestly think the headlights look rather cheap, they appear to have been artificially "grafted" on. I prefer the LFR-series' "dot" headlights over these ones.

I also don't really like the V-shaped indentation on the front panel. What's the point of that? It doesn't seem to have any function at first glance. But the addition of a bike rack will obscure that (as well as the rest of the front of the bus, unfortunately.)

I'm not sure that I like the design of the side window at the rear. Either square off the corner or make it a gradual curve, but the cut-off corner looks awkward.

That being said, I'm surprised that NFI is launching this product when they've already got the LFR and LFA series. It seems to be somewhere in the middle between the two.

Would like to know for some transit that buys other alternative fuel, right now it's only diesel they offer. And some transit do not like rooftop HVAC because of the location.

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I don't see how reducing the space between the side windows is so difficult... all of the other low floor bus manufacturers managed to do it already.

I wouldnt say that its hard, but the LFR is based on the D40LF platform. The Xcelsior is a completely new platform, which makes room for this. NFI took advantage of this and made a distinctive leap forward in bus technology.

Would like to know for some transit that buys other alternative fuel, right now it's only diesel they offer. And some transit do not like rooftop HVAC because of the location.

The Xcel is available in hybrid too. Its weight is even listed in the brochure. The Xcesior hybrid is the same weight as the LFR diesel, demonstrating its weight reduction. And the one in the brochure also appears to have rear HVAC (grill on the back).

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When they redesigned the newlook, was everyone else redesigning their buses to look the same in 1982? nope!

The thing that i don't like the most in this day and age is everything redesigned looks the same and everyone is going BRT 'fancy' style. Even 35 footers are starting to be redesigned!!! next thing you know there will be a ELF BRT bus.

i am glad i got into the hobby while unique buses are still running.

To make a simple: Long live the New Looks!

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I wouldnt say that its hard, but the LFR is based on the D40LF platform. The Xcelsior is a completely new platform, which makes room for this. NFI took advantage of this and made a distinctive leap forward in bus technology.

The Xcel is available in hybrid too. Its weight is even listed in the brochure. The Xcesior hybrid is the same weight as the LFR diesel, demonstrating its weight reduction. And the one in the brochure also appears to have rear HVAC (grill on the back).

The roof mounted HVAC is standard for both.

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It looks like that it is currently only being offered in diesel and diesel-electric hybrid versions. I wonder if New Flyer plans on making a CNG version as well.

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why would i care if its lighter? fishbowls are tanks and i like them that way!

The New Look is actually lighter than other buses like the Classic and D40. That was one of it's selling points when it came out, that it was lighter than any competitor's bus.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!! that must be the best bus ever.

What's with the sarcasm? I was giving you a serious response to your serious statement. I'm simply saying that mechanically, it's different from the D40LF/R.

some fishbowls had a/c too you know.

I was comparing it to the D40LF/R, which has rear-mounted AC.

[

When they redesigned the newlook, was everyone else redesigning their buses to look the same in 1982? nope!

They were back in the 60's. After the New Look came out, other manufacturers redesigned their buses to look like the New Look. Even then, the only thing most agencies ordered were GM's, so a city's fleet would look pretty consistent! If there was more competition back then, it's likely we would have seen every bus model looking like the New Look. After the Classic came out, the New Flyer D40 and Orion V came out, and then we were in to the "box on wheels" trend that continued through most of the 90's up until recently. Manufacturers follow trends in design and style when designing their buses, they don't want their designs to be too "radical". For example, the RTS was rejected by Canadian agencies as being too "futuristic-looking", so they stepped back and came up with something a little less radical, the Classic.

The thing that i don't like the most in this day and age is everything redesigned looks the same and everyone is going BRT 'fancy' style. Even 35 footers are starting to be redesigned!!! next thing you know there will be a ELF BRT bus.

It sounds to me like your issue isn't that everything looks the same, it's that they don't look like the New Look. Can you show me a time in the last 50 years when manufacturer's buses looked radically different from others? I, for one, am glad that we might actually have a chance to break a little bit out of this "box-on-wheels" design principle that has been around for the last 15 or more years, and go with something a little more modern looking. After all, isn't that the reason that GM redesigned the Old Look into the New Look?

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