Mr.Transit

Proterra

175 posts in this topic

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 8:38 AM, Gillig1109 said:

Question: For those who have Proterras, how are they working out? My home TA got a grant for fleet replacement, but they haven't placed the order yet. I hear you could lease the batteries, but could you lease them with federal funds or will that come out of the transit agency's pocket wholly?

VIA purchased 3 BE35 EcoRide's back in 2012.  They were used on the downtown circulator routes every once in a while.  But ever since the June 2016 service changes and the introduction of the 15 XN40's, all 3 have been sitting in the yard at garage collecting dust.  Not sure why they're sitting there though.

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THE CALIFORNIA AIR RESOURCES BOARD AWARDS FUNDING TO SAN JOAQUIN VALLEY AIR POLLUTION CONTROL DISTRICT TO DEPLOY 15 PROTERRA® BUSES

Proterra will deploy its buses and charging stations throughout the Valley, including the City of Visalia Transit Division, Fresno County Rural Transit Agency, California State University Fresno, San Joaquin Regional Transit District and City of Modesto Transit Services – helping to significantly reduce harmful emissions and clean the air in the San Joaquin Valley.

https://www.proterra.com/press-release/the-california-air-resources-board-awards-funding-to-san-joaquin-valley-air-pollution-control-district-to-deploy-15-proterra-buses/

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On 11/14/2016 at 11:46 PM, transit addict 327 said:

VIA purchased 3 BE35 EcoRide's back in 2012.  They were used on the downtown circulator routes every once in a while.  But ever since the June 2016 service changes and the introduction of the 15 XN40's, all 3 have been sitting in the yard at garage collecting dust.  Not sure why they're sitting there though.

Nice contribution. Let us know if you find anything out!

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Great article on Proterra from Forbes magazine:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2016/11/30/proterras-ryan-popple-is-on-a-mission-to-electrify-the-transit-bus-business/#51f58d831a49

Here is a snippet:

"To help turbocharge production, Popple recently recruited two former Tesla executives: battery engineer Dustin Grace and manufacturing guru Josh Ensign. Ensign has been charged with doubling output this year at Proterra's factory in Greenville, South Carolina, to two buses a week, and then quickly getting a second factory, which opens next year near Los Angeles, running at a similar pace. By the end of 2017 Popple wants Proterra building at a 250-unit annual rate."

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Proterra plans to triple production in Greenville

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2017/01/03/proterra-plans-boost-production-greenville/96120406/

"Proterra’s Greenville facility produced a few more than 30 buses in 2016 and will manufacture more than 90 in 2017."

"Proterra said in a news release that the new investment would create jobs at the company’s facilities in Los Angeles, Silicon Valley and Greenville."

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7 hours ago, TheAverageJoe said:

It will be 73 by the end of 2020 from Proterra. Rest  has to to go out to bids?

For sure and it sounds like they need artics. 55% of their fleet is articulated buses. Their (KC Metro) press release (here: http://kingcounty.gov/elected/executive/constantine/news/release/2017/January/10-battery-buses.aspx) makes it sound like they don't know that New Flyer and BYD already have electric 60 footers. But they must know that already. Probably just waiting for Altoona testing to finish?

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15 hours ago, MAX BRT said:

For sure and it sounds like they need artics. 55% of their fleet is articulated buses. Their (KC Metro) press release (here: http://kingcounty.gov/elected/executive/constantine/news/release/2017/January/10-battery-buses.aspx) makes it sound like they don't know that New Flyer and BYD already have electric 60 footers. But they must know that already. Probably just waiting for Altoona testing to finish?

If they are getting Federal funding they would need to put the order out for bids for artics. 

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New article in Seattle Weekly puts this week's big KC Metro battery electric bus buy announcement in perspective:

http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/king-county-metro-buys-nations-largest-fleet-of-battery-powered-buses/

In the article, King County Councilmember Rod Dembowski, chair of the Council’s Transportation, Economy and Environment Committee, points out the public health benefits, quality of life benefits and the cost benefits. He also points out that the battery buses  are lighter and don't tear up the streets so much. I think that is only true of fast-charge battery electric buses, because they have much smaller and lighter batteries. Its particularly true of the Proterra fast-charge bus, because Proterra uses a lightweight composite body: https://www.proterra.com/technology/bus-body/

"That means that the purchase “is bigger than just King County,” says Dembowski. As one of the top-ten transit agencies in the country, “People look to us. What is King County Metro doing?… It’s pretty exciting actually. It is a big deal.”

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On 1/11/2017 at 7:14 AM, MAX BRT said:

To be clear, the "20 more" coaches includes the 8 coaches Metro ordered back in April 2016 that are scheduled to be delivered this year.

Also, the 73 coaches figure includes that includes the 20 coaches that have already been ordered *and* the 3 coaches Metro already owns... so really it should read "Metro has the option to purchase an additional 50 coaches for delivery by 2020." Metro may also choose to equip some of those coaches with extended range batteries.

If Metro exercises the option for 50 Proterra coaches, they're still planning to buy an additional 50 coaches... likely from additional manufacturers. I think it's a good thing for Metro to try out different coaches and see what works best. Competition is good.

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On 1/11/2017 at 3:09 PM, MAX BRT said:

For sure and it sounds like they need artics. 55% of their fleet is articulated buses. Their (KC Metro) press release (here: http://kingcounty.gov/elected/executive/constantine/news/release/2017/January/10-battery-buses.aspx) makes it sound like they don't know that New Flyer and BYD already have electric 60 footers. But they must know that already. Probably just waiting for Altoona testing to finish?

Metro will never get BYD. Which I understand why. It wouldn't surprise me if they start testing a few XE60's, but for now it seems like they may just order more XDE60's. 

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13 hours ago, OR Transit Fan said:

Metro will never get BYD. Which I understand why. It wouldn't surprise me if they start testing a few XE60's, but for now it seems like they may just order more XDE60's. 

I fully expect Metro to test the New Flyer XE60, but why wouldn't Metro also test a manufacturer demonstrator of the BYD K11M?

In fact, Metro is already ordering 251 more XDE60 coaches that will be placed into service starting in the Fall of 2018. 

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On 21/01/2017 at 9:43 AM, OR Transit Fan said:

Metro will never get BYD. Which I understand why.

Why's that?

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12 hours ago, M. Parsons said:

Why's that?

BYD's are not good on Hills, It is one of the reason's why LAMTA has returned theirs to BYD. With Seattle having alot of hills I can see this being a problem. But the old demo that STM had, it had no problem making it up Mont Royal.

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3 hours ago, TheAverageJoe said:

BYD's are not good on Hills, It is one of the reason's why LAMTA has returned theirs to BYD. With Seattle having alot of hills I can see this being a problem. But the old demo that STM had, it had no problem making it up Mont Royal.

Well you'll never know for sure that the BYD K11M won't work in Seattle, until you test it in Seattle. 

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3 hours ago, MAX BRT said:

Proterra CEO predicts One third of new transit buses will be electric in 2020, all will be by 2030

Source: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1108839_one-third-of-new-transit-buses-will-be-electric-in-2020-all-by-2030-proterra-ceo

Thats ambitious. The guy probably just wants attention for his company. There are still too many bugs in battery electric buses in general, and until they can lower the purchase costs of the buses and charging systems, I don't see either of those predictions becoming reality.

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I don't know, I'm not betting against electric buses. Too much going for them, especially in terms of eliminating air pollution at the bus. And the up front cost has already fallen massively and is projected to continue to fall.

Electric vehicles are a natural fit for urban stop-and-go travel. They use so much less energy thanks to the lack of idling and the regenerative braking. Cleaner, quieter, smoother, reduced maintenance cost, the whole deal.

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4 hours ago, MAX BRT said:

I don't know, I'm not betting against electric buses. Too much going for them, especially in terms of eliminating air pollution at the bus. And the up front cost has already fallen massively and is projected to continue to fall.

Electric vehicles are a natural fit for urban stop-and-go travel. They use so much less energy thanks to the lack of idling and the regenerative braking. Cleaner, quieter, smoother, reduced maintenance cost, the whole deal.

But can they last 12 years without a major overhaul needing to be down? No EV has turned 12 years old. Foothill Transit has the oldest, IIRC turning 9 this year.

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13 minutes ago, Gillig1109 said:

But can they last 12 years without a major overhaul needing to be down? No EV has turned 12 years old. Foothill Transit has the oldest, IIRC turning 9 this year.

Foothill Transit was the first, but I don't think they were deployed until 2010. I don't expect any need for a major overhaul, although the experts on trolley electric buses might know more about what an electric vehicle needs. I expect the bus to outlast the original batteries, which I believe were only expected to last 6 or 7 years.

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19 hours ago, MAX BRT said:

I don't know, I'm not betting against electric buses. Too much going for them, especially in terms of eliminating air pollution at the bus. And the up front cost has already fallen massively and is projected to continue to fall.

Electric vehicles are a natural fit for urban stop-and-go travel. They use so much less energy thanks to the lack of idling and the regenerative braking. Cleaner, quieter, smoother, reduced maintenance cost, the whole deal.

Although I don't think either of the guy's predictions will be right, Proterra has gotten quite a few orders for the Catalyst. Chicago, King County, and Philly will have a bunch running by the end of this year. Numerous mid-size systems will also be getting them, thanks in part to federal grants. There are other factors that will eventually boost their sales even more. IIRC California wants all buses to be zero emissions by 2040. Although under the current US administration, there isn't much of a likely of new nationwide emissions regulations being introduced for diesel buses, this could change in the future, and force transit systems to look to other power sources.

 

15 hours ago, MAX BRT said:

Foothill Transit was the first, but I don't think they were deployed until 2010. I don't expect any need for a major overhaul, although the experts on trolley electric buses might know more about what an electric vehicle needs. I expect the bus to outlast the original batteries, which I believe were only expected to last 6 or 7 years.

When you look at the few places that still operate trolleybuses, its clear that they do last longer. Modern AC motor technology will make electric buses even more reliable. Your're right though, the batteries are a constraint. I live in a city with a lot of Hybrid buses, and the batteries are always replaced during mid-life overhauls. I've heard that the BAE Systems battery pack is around $40,000. On a fully electric bus, those costs would be even higher (larger battery).

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