MTA NYCT Subway/Bus discussion

[R. McConnell]

I had the chance to ride DesignLine #1302 today on the M42, and here's my critique:

-Overall, this is an excellent vehicle. The bus rode very smoothly (compared to the Orion VII NG HEVs) and the motor was extremely quiet. Not to mention that it looks great from the outside.

-There were a few too many recorded announcements for my liking. There seemed to be an automatically-triggered "Please move away from the doors" message whenever someone got too close to the rear door. There was another "Doors closing" message, played whenever the rear doors closed, that seemed rather useless. And, for whatever reason, there was no stop request chime or recorded message at all.

-The touch-sensitive rear doors seemed a bit complicated for regular users to figure out. I would support installing touch bars similar to those on the MTA's newest Orion VII NG HEVs.

-The windows in the low floor section are a bit high up for seated passengers to see out of, but then again, most low-floor buses have this problem.

-The high floor section is a bit higher up than it is on the Orion VII NG HEVs, and it definitely doesn't encourage standees to stand up there. This caused a bit of overcrowding in the front of the bus and in the space near the rear doors.

[R. McConnell]

A partial ceiling collapse at the 181st Street subway station last night caused an indefinite suspension of (1) train service in the general vicinity. MTA press release:

MTA NYC Transit Advisory 1 Service Suspended

Due to a collapse of the brick façade from the ceiling above the tracks at the 181st Street station, 1 train service will remain suspended throughout the rest of today, Monday, August 17th, 2009. Service through this area will be suspended until further notice.

At approximately 10:30 p.m. Sunday, a section of the brick architectural façade fell 35 feet to the track bed below. A downtown 1 train was in the station, but did not sustain any major damage. No customer injuries were reported. The cause of the ceiling collapse at the 181st Street station is under investigation. A contractor has been called in to remove any remaining loose brick and make temporary repairs, but those repairs may take several days to complete. 1 service will not resume until it is safe to operate trains through the area.

During this outage, 1 train service will operate in two sections, with a FREE shuttle bus in operation between affected stations in Upper Manhattan:

• 1 train service will operate in both directions between South Ferry and 168th St

• Free Shuttle buses will operate between 168th St and Dyckman St

• 1 train service will operate in both directions between Van Cortlandt Park – 242nd St and Dyckman St

During this service outage, the M3 bus, which operates along St. Nicholas Avenue will be FARE FREE for northbound customers 168th Street; in both directions at 181st Street, and; southbound at 191st Street.

This suspension in service will have an impact on wheelchair customers who rely on the 1 train. Those customers are advised to do the following:

• Customers who use wheelchairs heading Manhattan bound should at 231st Street should call 1-800-834-1173 and make arrangements for a shuttle bus to take them to 207th Street, where they can transfer to the A for the ride downtown

• Customers who use wheelchairs heading northbound on the 1 should transfer at 72nd Street to the M5 bus to 168th Street. At 168th Street they should transfer to a free shuttle bus that will take them to stops heading northbound

Or

• Customers who use wheelchairs can take the A train to 168th Street where they can transfer to a FREE shuttle bus that will take them to 1 stops heading northbound

1 line customers should add additional time to their commute during this outage. We apologize for the inconvenience. Additional Transit personnel will be on hand at both the 168th Street and Dyckman Street stations on the 1 line to assist customers with travel information.

The 181st Street station is listed in the National Register of Historic Places. The station is a two-track side platform station located within the Fort George Tunnel. It is one of three stations along this stretch of tunnel which includes the 168th Street, 181st Street and 191st Street stations. All three stations are of round bored-tunnel construction, approximately eight to ten stories (in this case 121 feet) beneath the street.

The central portion of this station features soaring ceilings that are approximately three stories high. The keyblock of the central arch is heavily embellished with a volute draped with a laurel wreathe. Along the center of the ceiling are six evenly spaced, multi-colored terra cotta medallions that once held light fixtures.

Robert

[aemoreira81]

Now that I look at it again, I think you're right - the ends of the "spoiler" are curved down, which would separate the airstreams when the vehicle is in motion and would probably help keep the heated (but hopefully mixed) exhaust directly behind the vehicle instead of fanning it out.

Dan

I found out the answer also (and I posted the same thing to Rob McConnell's post above this one on another forum): That "spoiler" actually covers up the exhaust pipe, which spreads out.

[Orion Bus]

Well here's my crap shots of 1302, but first, 6401 with the new Lithium Ion battery.

And after riding this bus, it seems to be decent, not good for crushloading, but good on routes with high levels of elderly people. The announcements though, there's too many of them, and the speaker in the back is WAY too loud and scares some passengers. I do wish it had push tapes instead, the bars act funny sometimes. Whenever I push a NG door open with my own power, it opens then when it shuts, it opens up again because the bars sense a push or something.

[R. McConnell]

1302 sure is getting around! Unfortunately, its presence on routes other than the M42 makes it a bit harder to spot.

I agree that it could handle crowds better, but then again, most low floor buses have issues with large crowds.

[R. Flores]

Is it me or are those orange lights on either side of the destination sign not level with each other?

-Ryan

[smallspy]

Is it me or are those orange lights on either side of the destination sign not level with each other?

-Ryan

You're right, they're not.

Dan

[2822]

Any interior photos?

[BBC 9197]

From what I can see in the photos above it seems to have a very large engine & A/C compartment. The D40LF also has a large compartment but 1302's looks larger, the extra space used for the engine compartment could be better used in passenger area and would increase capacity. Orion has always minimized the amount of space behind the passenger compartment which does result in intrusions of some engine components into the passenger area, like the raised panel in the centre of the rear seat and the panel that hangs down from the ceiling in the rear centre of the bus but this allows for extra passenger room and isn't that the point.

[R. McConnell]

The large engine compartment probably has something to do with the turbine, I'm guessing.

[smallspy]

The large engine compartment probably has something to do with the turbine, I'm guessing.

It shouldn't. The turbine is less than half the size of a regular diesel engine, which should allow for tons of room for other things (such as insulation and a fuel tank).

Unless that's where the batteries are.

Dan

[Shaun]

It shouldn't. The turbine is less than half the size of a regular diesel engine, which should allow for tons of room for other things (such as insulation and a fuel tank).

Unless that's where the batteries are.

Dan

What does the manufacturer specify as the crush load capacity of this bus? I would think it would be less than an Orion VII NG. I'm sure it certainly weighs less thou. Even by the looks of it.

[aemoreira81]

It shouldn't. The turbine is less than half the size of a regular diesel engine, which should allow for tons of room for other things (such as insulation and a fuel tank).

Unless that's where the batteries are.

Dan

That would be odd then to have such a lengthy rear overhang if that were the case though. But that does make sense considering that the bus can't be much higher than 10'4".

[general682002]

Any interior photos?

Courtesy from TTMG!

[A. Wong]

August 28, 2009

Industry News

NYCT testing turbine-powered bus

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority's New York City Transit has rolled out a turbine-powered DesignLine hybrid-electric low-floor bus, the first of an eight-bus order set for a 90-day evaluation. The small bus order is part of the agency's ongoing effort to examine new technology that will help reduce emissions and provide more economical and environmentally friendly service.

The key feature of the DesignLine bus is a diesel turbine engine, replacing the diesel piston engine that powers the majority of buses in NYC Transit's 4,600-bus fleet. The turbine produces AC power, which in turn charges the battery that then powers the motor that drives the wheels. In addition, like the rest of the hybrid fleet, the new bus has regenerative braking, which recharges the batteries each time the bus operator makes a brake application.

Other features include an efficient and long-lasting interior LED lighting system, a contactless sensor system for air assist rear exit doors, a flip-out ramp for wheelchairs by the front entrance and disc brakes at all wheels.

The DesignLine buses, which have a capacity of either 35 or 37 seats, depending on the configuration, with 30 standees, are anticipated to have significantly reduced maintenance costs, and include a 12-year warranty on the turbine engine and lithium-ion battery pack, eliminating the need for midlife replacement. They also do not require oil changes.

A similar 35-foot long bus was successfully operated in Manhattan and Queens for a 30-day period back in the fall of 2007. This current evaluation is the second-phase test of a greater number of buses, built to NYC Transit specifications. Structural testing is currently under way as part of the New Bus Qualification program as well as in-service testing.

Upon completion of this test period, NYC Transit will make recommendations to the manufacturer as to what features we would like to see improved or modified. The base order for these buses is 30 with an option to purchase 60 additional buses, if test results are positive.

Copyright © 2009 Metro Magazine. All Rigths Reserved.

Source: http://www.metro-magazine.com/News/Story/2...owered-bus.aspx

[Rocket_Train]

Nova RTS 5225

Orion V 6048

Nova RTS 5240

[2044]

From BusChat:

MTA to purchase 135 CNG LF buses with an option for up to 475 more

[general682002]

From BusChat:

MTA to purchase 135 CNG LF buses with an option for up to 475 more

I thought at first they will never go back to CNG due to high maintenance cost.

[TheAverageJoe]

I thought at first they will never go back to CNG due to high maintenance cost.

Maybe problems with their HEV VIIs?

[BusMaxx]

Maybe problems with their HEV VIIs?

how many VII hybrids did they purchase?? (confirmed/options)

[R. McConnell]

I thought at first they will never go back to CNG due to high maintenance cost.

They ordered over 80 CNG buses for Long Island Bus earlier this year (although, LIB is a 100% CNG fleet.)

how many VII hybrids did they purchase?? (confirmed/options)

2002 Orion VII HEV: 6365 (total: 1)

2003-2004 Orion VII HEV: 6366-6489 (total: 123)

2005 Orion VII HEV: 6490-6689 (total: 199)

2006-2007 Orion VII HEV: 3500-3783, 6690-6905 (total: 500)

2008-2009 Orion VII NG HEV: 3800-4278, 4330-4700 (total: 848) -- currently being delivered

Grand total: 1671 (that's a lot!)

[general682002]

They ordered over 80 CNG buses for Long Island Bus earlier this year (although, LIB is a 100% CNG fleet.)

Unless this is for LI to replace their 1996 Orion V CNG.

[Kashiwazaki]

Spotted 996 in service on the X51 this evening:

DAMT, that's my FAVORITE CITY BUS!!!! THANK YOU!

Nova RTS 5240

What's that blue bus in the background?

[Shaun]

Guess what I found today... MTA Orion VI HEVs!!

Found theses in a lot near city border in Thunder Bay, ON.

Anyone know what happened to these? Are they still sitting there?

[dj.surf.lfs]

Anyone know what happened to these? Are they still sitting there?

I doubt they're still there, although I haven't checked the place since.