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hl7534

MTA NYCT Subway/Bus discussion

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2 hours ago, Chris.A said:

Here's a question though, will any of the 2002-2004 New Flyer D60HFs be preserved for the NYCT Museum? I haven't heard anything about that.

I haven't heard anything so i assume not

 

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7 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

I haven't heard anything so i assume not

 

I heard somewhere that one was supposed to be saved, but was instead scrapped

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54 minutes ago, Imgursdownvote4love said:

I heard somewhere that one was supposed to be saved, but was instead scrapped

Why did they scrap it? I know it was a 1997 D60HF (#1004), but that is such a waste. It would be a really shame if none of these buses were preserved for their history. Should someone notify the Transit Museum?

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2 hours ago, Imgursdownvote4love said:

I heard somewhere that one was supposed to be saved, but was instead scrapped

it was a training bus out of zerega from retirement (2010-2012??? I forget when they retired those) to december 2018 IIRC then they scrapped it instead of sending it to the museum as planned. They got Orion 5 #6000 along with 1004/1000 and almost scrapped the ex-Command TMC RTS CNG #4904, but that was saved in an 11th hour decision.

1 hour ago, Chris.A said:

Why did they scrap it? I know it was a 1997 D60HF (#1004), but that is such a waste. It would be a really shame if none of these buses were preserved for their history. Should someone notify the Transit Museum?

I don't ever recall a reason being given but it probably had something to do with the fact that it's an expensive bus to preserve. It takes up lots of space, you have to keep up with the articulated joint, and it's possible in the years post retirement it suffered frame issues.

It probably wouldn't hurt to notify the Transit Museum but i'd be surprised if they would act on preserving one at all. So little regard is given to the bus division (All trains trains trains) that even if they preserved one it probably wouldn't be seen at all anyway.

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3 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

it was a training bus out of zerega from retirement (2010-2012??? I forget when they retired those) to december 2018 IIRC then they scrapped it instead of sending it to the museum as planned. They got Orion 5 #6000 along with 1004/1000 and almost scrapped the ex-Command TMC RTS CNG #4904, but that was saved in an 11th hour decision.

I don't ever recall a reason being given but it probably had something to do with the fact that it's an expensive bus to preserve. It takes up lots of space, you have to keep up with the articulated joint, and it's possible in the years post retirement it suffered frame issues.

It probably wouldn't hurt to notify the Transit Museum but i'd be surprised if they would act on preserving one at all. So little regard is given to the bus division (All trains trains trains) that even if they preserved one it probably wouldn't be seen at all anyway.

They got money, they need to use it. Also, those D60HFs (#1000-1109) were retired by early 2012 when the 2009-2013 LFSAs came in. Personally, alongside a D60HF, the only other buses the Museum need to save would be a couple of Orion VIIs and that's it. After that, there's nothing else worth saving.

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40 minutes ago, Chris.A said:

...After that, there's nothing else worth saving.

Didn't they get the last -LFs ever built?

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55 minutes ago, Chris.A said:

They got money, they need to use it.

The issue is they don't got a lot of it to use in the first place. At least for subways, the work is done by regular employees volunteering their time in their extra hours to work on the trains just out of passion. That passion is lacking in the bus division. It doesn't help at all that the parts are quite hard to come by.

 

17 minutes ago, Imgursdownvote4love said:

Didn't they get the last -LFs ever built?

Last LF whats?

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1 hour ago, Orion6025 said:

The issue is they don't got a lot of it to use in the first place. At least for subways, the work is done by regular employees volunteering their time in their extra hours to work on the trains just out of passion. That passion is lacking in the bus division. It doesn't help at all that the parts are quite hard to come by.

 

Last LF whats?

I believe he's referring to the newer C40LFs #185-672.

1 hour ago, Orion6025 said:

The issue is they don't got a lot of it to use in the first place. At least for subways, the work is done by regular employees volunteering their time in their extra hours to work on the trains just out of passion. That passion is lacking in the bus division. It doesn't help at all that the parts are quite hard to come by.

 

Last LF whats?

 

1 hour ago, Imgursdownvote4love said:

Didn't they get the last -LFs ever built?

The problem with that is the fact they are CNG powered and the MTA (and NICE) have track records of scrapping all their old CNGs (notice that NICE bus didn't save any of their Orion 5 CNGs for preservation either. Doubt they'll save a NG or 3G CNG when those retire in the next 3-7 years).

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1 hour ago, Orion6025 said:

Last LF whats?

The last New Flyer buses with the original (actually 2nd) front and back ends. Most -LF models were discontinued in favour of the -LFR and -LFA lines by 2010, but the MTA continued to order the C40LF until 2013. After that, the -LF, -LFR, -LFA and (technically -i) lines were discontinued in favour of the Xcelcior line

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11 minutes ago, Imgursdownvote4love said:

The last New Flyer buses with the original (actually 2nd) front and back ends. Most -LF models were discontinued in favour of the -LFR and -LFA lines by 2010, but the MTA continued to order the C40LF until 2013. After that, the -LF, -LFR, -LFA and (technically -i) lines were discontinued in favour of the Xcelcior line

Which was very stupid of them mind you. They should have kept the LFR going for a few more years.

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14 minutes ago, Imgursdownvote4love said:

The last New Flyer buses with the original (actually 2nd) front and back ends. Most -LF models were discontinued in favour of the -LFR and -LFA lines by 2010, but the MTA continued to order the C40LF until 2013. After that, the -LF, -LFR, -LFA and (technically -i) lines were discontinued in favour of the Xcelcior line

Ah those buses. Yeah those are the last built

--

I would say they likely won't bother preserving one. They've in general skipped over saving the CNG buses (Note that none of the Orion V CNGs and Orion VII CNGs have been set aside). The 1998-2000 C40LFs would have been very logical candidates for preservation too since they were the MTA's first production low floor buses (IIRC the 1997-1999 Orion VI HEVs were technically not the first as those 1997s were purchased second hand off of NJT...). but they glossed over those too because tanks. And their experience with preserving 4904 has been only bad. It's just too hard and too expensive to try and keep a CNG bus preserved (Well, at least outside of SoCal) beyond putting one display and the MTA has no means to publicly display these buses so in the end it would be futile unfortunately (Unless they obtain some floor space somewhere).

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Yukon now has the new Nova’s on the S79 limited. Just saw one pulling out of Yukon. First buses on SI that aren’t with the blue stripe

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The writing was on the wall for a while, but the orion 7 cngs finally retired/removed from the roster this morning.

FWIW the rts outlived them by 4 days.

---

i'll get around to updating the wiki soon enough with the rts and orion 7 cng retirements, but i'm still waiting on the last rts to be removed from the active roster (5241 is still registered to quill)

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7 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

The writing was on the wall for a while, but the orion 7 cngs finally retired/removed from the roster this morning.

FWIW the rts outlived them by 4 days.

---

i'll get around to updating the wiki soon enough with the rts and orion 7 cng retirements, but i'm still waiting on the last rts to be removed from the active roster (5241 is still registered to quill)

Very sad, end of the Detroit Diesel Series 50 engine. 

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I was wrong in my prior post. The S79 limited seems to be exclusive yet on the Orion’s. None of the new nova are in select markings. 

 

8574 and 8590 photographed on the road today leaving Yukon with a bunch more seen lined up inside the depot from the street. 8574 running the S59 and 8590 was showing not in service. 

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682DE785-B600-45B3-976E-9E6B57B2538A.jpeg

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So there's talk of scrapping 1991 TMC RTS #8319 (MetroCard bus) in recent days. I really hope that's not true, cause that's the last NYCTA TMC RTS left in existents (that we know of). They need to preserve that bus as well (plus it's a repower too). I miss the repowered RTS's. :(

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MTA had a small RTS celebration today. 5249 the museum bus was put on display and 5241 made 1 ceremonial southbound m55 run this afternoon to cap off RTS service in NYC. There were a few photo shoots and 0013 was along for the event. As of today no RTS will be running in service. 4/30/19 was the last scheduled/regular day of service, but since today's run did put 5241 in revenue service and since it's not a museum bus, it technically counts as an in-service run.

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On 5/3/2019 at 12:19 AM, Orion6025 said:

Ah those buses. Yeah those are the last built

--

I would say they likely won't bother preserving one. They've in general skipped over saving the CNG buses (Note that none of the Orion V CNGs and Orion VII CNGs have been set aside). The 1998-2000 C40LFs would have been very logical candidates for preservation too since they were the MTA's first production low floor buses (IIRC the 1997-1999 Orion VI HEVs were technically not the first as those 1997s were purchased second hand off of NJT...). but they glossed over those too because tanks. And their experience with preserving 4904 has been only bad. It's just too hard and too expensive to try and keep a CNG bus preserved (Well, at least outside of SoCal) beyond putting one display and the MTA has no means to publicly display these buses so in the end it would be futile unfortunately (Unless they obtain some floor space somewhere).

Did they end up keeping one of the Orion VI HEVs?

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16 hours ago, 2044 said:

Did they end up keeping one of the Orion VI HEVs?

Yes, 6350 was saved and it's currently sitting at Grand Avenue Depot. It hasn't ran in over a decade and AFAIK they don't have parts to get it running again, but it hasn't been stripped yet and is largely intact.

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On 5/7/2019 at 12:08 PM, Orion6025 said:

Yes, 6350 was saved and it's currently sitting at Grand Avenue Depot. It hasn't ran in over a decade and AFAIK they don't have parts to get it running again, but it hasn't been stripped yet and is largely intact.

Don't be surprised if they eventually scarp it an replace it when an Orion VII hybrid. 

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40 minutes ago, Chris.A said:

Don't be surprised if they eventually scarp it an replace it when an Orion VII hybrid. 

Shhhh. Don't give em any ideas lmao

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On 5/11/2019 at 4:44 PM, Orion6025 said:

Shhhh. Don't give em any ideas lmao

You know they would do that. lol MTA is very scrap happy.

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Couple of NYCTA news, 1, 1999 Novabus RTS #5227 has also been preserved for a NJ Transit society, so that's yet ANOTHER RTS saved from the scrap heap. 2, 2010 Orion VII NG hybrid #4603 had apparently had an engine fire while working (I believe) the B46 at Broadway junction. Sounds like a small fire, (similar to #4002's and #1707's (CNG NG) fires) hopefully it gets repaired soon enough.   

On 5/7/2019 at 12:08 PM, Orion6025 said:

Yes, 6350 was saved and it's currently sitting at Grand Avenue Depot. It hasn't ran in over a decade and AFAIK they don't have parts to get it running again, but it hasn't been stripped yet and is largely intact.

Funny thing about the Orion 6 buses is that at one point back in 2006-2007, there was talk over converting those buses to diesel (ala TTC's 1998 Orion VI CNGs that failed and were retired 8 years after their introduction) and sending them to Staten Island to run with the Orion V buses (at the time, just before the first wave of NG hybrids started arriving in summer '08). I guess that plan got scrapped and/or cancelled in some fashion.

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23 hours ago, Chris.A said:

I guess that plan got scrapped and/or cancelled in some fashion.

Yeah that makes sense. WOuld've been cost prohibitive to do that

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