Scarborough RT

[BusFreak93]

The Peter Witt sound has nothing to do with the motors, but rather with the tracks. There are corrugations on the rails which are causing that moaning sound when the trains move. They were caused by a rail grinding operation last spring. When I talked to the contractor doing the job he said the grinding process causes the corrugations but the weight of the trains make the rails smooth over time. I don't think he realized just how light weight the SRT cars actually are... it'll take some time to get rid of those corrugations.

I agree the SkyTrain system in Vancouver is much smoother. Then again they have many more trains.

[Downsview 108]

The Peter Witt sound has nothing to do with the motors, but rather with the tracks. There are corrugations on the rails which are causing that moaning sound when the trains move. They were caused by a rail grinding operation last spring. When I talked to the contractor doing the job he said the grinding process causes the corrugations but the weight of the trains make the rails smooth over time. I don't think he realized just how light weight the SRT cars actually are... it'll take some time to get rid of those corrugations.

That's is so cool! Thanks for the info.

[smallspy]

The Peter Witt sound has nothing to do with the motors, but rather with the tracks. There are corrugations on the rails which are causing that moaning sound when the trains move. They were caused by a rail grinding operation last spring. When I talked to the contractor doing the job he said the grinding process causes the corrugations but the weight of the trains make the rails smooth over time. I don't think he realized just how light weight the SRT cars actually are... it'll take some time to get rid of those corrugations.

On top of that, a lot of what removes the micro-corrugations is also accelerating and braking forces by the wheels. Since the ICTS cars don't provide any accelerating forces, and comparatively minimal braking forces through the wheels, it will take that much longer to smooth everything out.

Dan

[Bus_Medic]

On top of that, a lot of what removes the micro-corrugations is also accelerating and braking forces by the wheels. Since the ICTS cars don't provide any accelerating forces, and comparatively minimal braking forces through the wheels, it will take that much longer to smooth everything out.

Dan

it's embarrassing to hear them now when compared to long ago.

to be honest, i take the 131e now when i can. that roar from the track can be deafening.

[dowlingm]

Well, now that Duncan has shafted Transit City (although promising to pay 66pc of capital was a bit of a stretch I thought) what happens the SRT? It's not going to be replaced by 2015 but the lifex of the Mark Is is about then. Rebuild the cars? Lease some MkIs from Vancouver now the Olympics are over to stretch out the other 28?

[wil9402]

I believe it was in another thread a couple weeks back that their was a small discussion on whether SRT cars can switch directions by using a loop track at McCowan like the subway trains can. I'd just like to point out from my observations over the past 2-3 weeks I don't think that is possible. I noticed that all the leading cars in married pairs towards Kennedy were the even numbered ones while the leading pairs towards McCowan were the odd numbered cars. For example, using a train set like 3000-3001-3014-3015, 3000 and 3014 would be the lead cars in their pairs towards Kennedy and 3001 and 3015 would be towards McCowan.

[Orion VIII]

I remember at one point during 2006 or 2007, 3002 was connected to 3027 or some similar combination. I noted that mis-married pair on several occasions.

[Archer]

I believe it was in another thread a couple weeks back that their was a small discussion on whether SRT cars can switch directions by using a loop track at McCowan like the subway trains can. I'd just like to point out from my observations over the past 2-3 weeks I don't think that is possible. I noticed that all the leading cars in married pairs towards Kennedy were the even numbered ones while the leading pairs towards McCowan were the odd numbered cars. For example, using a train set like 3000-3001-3014-3015, 3000 and 3014 would be the lead cars in their pairs towards Kennedy and 3001 and 3015 would be towards McCowan.

There is a loop track in existence at McCowan (visible via Google Maps), so it theoretically could be done.

[DavidH]

Well, now that Duncan has shafted Transit City (although promising to pay 66pc of capital was a bit of a stretch I thought) what happens the SRT? It's not going to be replaced by 2015 but the lifex of the Mark Is is about then. Rebuild the cars? Lease some MkIs from Vancouver now the Olympics are over to stretch out the other 28?

We don't know that SRT is dead. Metrolinx will need to make a decision on where they will take the $4B from. My guess is that SRT will go ahead but Eglinton and Finch will be toast.

Sigh. I don't know about you, but I was in an awful foul mood all night because of this news.

[GM artic 5001]

I knew something like this would happen, as it does time and time again! I just wish a government would just bite the bullet and just do it already!

[rocketdriver2019]

I believe it was in another thread a couple weeks back that their was a small discussion on whether SRT cars can switch directions by using a loop track at McCowan like the subway trains can. I'd just like to point out from my observations over the past 2-3 weeks I don't think that is possible. I noticed that all the leading cars in married pairs towards Kennedy were the even numbered ones while the leading pairs towards McCowan were the odd numbered cars. For example, using a train set like 3000-3001-3014-3015, 3000 and 3014 would be the lead cars in their pairs towards Kennedy and 3001 and 3015 would be towards McCowan.

It's very much possible, but the loop track is unpowered so the car would have to be pushed around by one of the locomotives. There's not really any reason why they'd want to do that unless they have two northbound facing cars that they want to put together.

I remember at one point during 2006 or 2007, 3002 was connected to 3027 or some similar combination. I noted that mis-married pair on several occasions.

It's quite a common occurrence. 3015 and 3021 were in a married pair for quite a long time when I first started driving the SRT.

[shambala]

We don't know that SRT is dead. Metrolinx will need to make a decision on where they will take the $4B from. My guess is that SRT will go ahead but Eglinton and Finch will be toast.

It may not be dead,...yet, it's certainly on life support. http://www.thestar.com/yourcitymycity/arti...-spending-slows

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/ttc/articl...ls-for-response

[wil9402]

There is a loop track in existence at McCowan (visible via Google Maps), so it theoretically could be done.

It's very much possible, but the loop track is unpowered so the car would have to be pushed around by one of the locomotives. There's not really any reason why they'd want to do that unless they have two northbound facing cars that they want to put together.

I should have read over my post and used better words, . What I was trying to say was that it is possible but it is never done, as rocketdriver has said, there isn't really a reason. Although, when trains are brought back from Greenwood on a flatbed do they make sure that they are unloaded with the even number car facing Kennedy bound?

[38 Highland Creek]

Another TTC news article from the Toronto Star:

TTC Report Threatens To Reopen Scarborough Subway Debate

[Tramway]

Another TTC news article from the Toronto Star:

TTC Report Threatens To Reopen Scarborough Subway Debate

That report would've been a nice contribution to the debate last year's winter. I seriously doubt Metrolinx will even consider this now (early indications seem to show that.)

With regards to the idea of SRT replacement vs B-D subway extension, I'm not really sure which I prefer. I think the important aspect this article has missed is the projected ridership in the next decades or so. If the corridor will outpace an LRT, then go with the subway now. If not.. then I think serving additional neighbourhoods (and Centennial College) with the SRT replacement is better.

[smallspy]

That report would've been a nice contribution to the debate last year's winter. I seriously doubt Metrolinx will even consider this now (early indications seem to show that.)

With regards to the idea of SRT replacement vs B-D subway extension, I'm not really sure which I prefer. I think the important aspect this article has missed is the projected ridership in the next decades or so. If the corridor will outpace an LRT, then go with the subway now. If not.. then I think serving additional neighbourhoods (and Centennial College) with the SRT replacement is better.

Read the report - it clearly states that the ridership potential of the corridor is well within what an LRT can handle.

Dan

[skyfirenet]

With regards to the idea of SRT replacement vs B-D subway extension, I'm not really sure which I prefer.

I'm not really sure why this is even a one or the other debate; other than it being another case of subway envy and the city refusing to pay for things we need. Frankly, Scarborough would be much better of with both in the long run.

[smallspy]

Frankly, Scarborough would be much better of with both in the long run.

The same argument can be made for just about every corner of the City.

The question is whether we can afford it however? Realistically, I think the answer is "no".

Dan

[nfitz]

 

 

Frankly, Scarborough would be much better of with both in the long run.

And if 50 years from now the passenger load is well beyond the current 20-year projection, then I'm sure it will happen, and there will be both. Unlike the Sheppard East LRT, there's nothing in this that precludes a future subway if the demand warrants.

[skyfirenet]

And if 50 years from now the passenger load is well beyond the current 20-year projection, then I'm sure it will happen, and there will be both.

Indeed. However, if the subway option gets pushed now, there won't be both in 50 years. That's what I was hinting at by not understanding why it was a one or the other debate since rebuilding the LRT line now wouldn't stop Scarborough from getting an extension of the BD line to STC in the future.

[Tramway]

Read the report - it clearly states that the ridership potential of the corridor is well within what an LRT can handle.

Dan

I did read the report before making that post, actually. I was talking about how the news article makes no mention of projected ridership. Which happens to be what most people read. Unfortunately, the majority of the electorate probably won't even bother reading the linked report. This matters because we'll likely soon be hearing all their voices on what should be done, should this debate re-ignite.

My ambiguity on which I prefer comes from the fact that the projections only go as far as 2031. It probably would be inaccurate to project beyond that, but it would be nice to have a very long-term projection to help decide on a long-term investment.

I'm not really sure why this is even a one or the other debate; other than it being another case of subway envy and the city refusing to pay for things we need. Frankly, Scarborough would be much better of with both in the long run.

I was actually thinking about that last night when I first read the report. A B-D extension, plus the northerly part of the LRT (running parallel to Ellesmere then veering north at Centennial.. or maybe even continuing along Ellesmere to serve UofT SC) would be a nice scenario. I imagine it's been constructed to one-or-the-other because there only is funding for that, currently.

[williampaul]

The question is whether we can afford it however? Realistically, I think the answer is "no".

Dan

C'mon Dan, that is a rather slanted view. Realistically we cannot afford anything and as a matter of fact we are not paying for anything(directly).

The Province is 'gifting' us this money and LRT's, so we could build an 8 billion dollar circular belt line subway around Morningside & Fiinch going nowhere if we wanted.

The province will/has done what we tell them to with the dough

Sure if we made SRT into subway you would more than likely have to give up Finch West, but then again Finch West is already getting a shiny new subway line direct to downtown.

Just like Mel won the battle for Sheppard, the councillor out there has won the battle for a new train.

[Tramway]

The Province is 'gifting' us this money and LRT's, so we could build an 8 billion dollar circular belt line subway around Morningside & Fiinch going nowhere if we wanted.

The province will/has done what we tell them to with the dough

Not necessarily. Once the agreements were signed last year that finalized what to build, the province has repeatedly said it would not consider anything new. As it is their money, they ultimately can choose to build whatever was agreed, or simply withhold the money on something they don't like.

Ford's "cancellation" of Transit City was a bit exceptional, as he was elected in a large plurality, which made his anti-LRT rhetoric hold weight to the province. But even then, the MoE between Ford and the province stated he'd have to get council approval to change the funding towards his subway ideas, which ultimately was shot down.

So, as far as I can tell, it seems like Metrolinx has the final say here. Unless there are other times the province has balked before the city that I do not know of?

[skyfirenet]

I was actually thinking about that last night when I first read the report. A B-D extension, plus the northerly part of the LRT (running parallel to Ellesmere then veering north at Centennial.. or maybe even continuing along Ellesmere to serve UofT SC) would be a nice scenario.

Actually, I was more thinking along the lines of if the manifest destiny of the BD line is to eventually go to STC and Metrolinx finally gets around to creating a regional fare system in addition to completing the electrification of the Lakeshore line, it would make more sense to push the BD line to Eglinton GO station before heading to STC rather than the shortest route possible between Kennedy and STC which is currently on the table. As a result, the subway would be far enough east that there would still be a use for the North-South portion of the RT line.

[Tramway]

Actually, I was more thinking along the lines of if the manifest destiny of the BD line is to eventually go to STC and Metrolinx finally gets around to creating a regional fare system in addition to completing the electrification of the Lakeshore line, it would make more sense to push the BD line to Eglinton GO station before heading to STC rather than the shortest route possible between Kennedy and STC which is currently on the table. As a result, the subway would be far enough east that there would still be a use for the North-South portion of the RT line.

I like that idea better. It makes more use of the various levels of infrastructure already in place. That way, Lakeshore East riders from Durham (or even downtown, to avoid subway traffic) have an easy way to STC via Eglinton GO.