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Shaun

Scarborough RT

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I'll invite the rest of the board for comment, I'm at a loss for words.

I suspect that you are not at a loss for words. However, you probably are at a loss for words that can be said in polite company.

Honestly, I suspect that Lawrence East station will get killed in the end if they don't switch back to the LRT proposal or Ford finally gets repeatedly beaten about the head with a clue by four over his "subways for free" idea. Simply put, the crossover that will be needed west of STC will require a lot of work to handle it and that won't be cheap.

Edit:

I also hope those who complained about the length of the shutdown for the LRT conversion enjoy the shuttle bus to Warden for the conversion of the SRT to a subway.

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something is finally going to be built - this is good news - evn a one-stop direct to STC is good. Anything!

Little premature there aren't you? You seem to forget this is still just a lot of hot air from a lot of blowhards.

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Finally Scarbourough will get a subway so all the politicians and residents of Scarbourough finallly got their dream!

...Can we move on to the transit issues that the rest of the city faces. I dont want to start a debate but really, Scarborough isnt the only area of Toronto with poor transit options. Last time I checked, Etobicoke has 3 subway stations so I really don't know what Scarbourough complains about when the word "LRT" is tossed out to replace their crumbling RT. Most people would be happy with the LRT (might I add partially grade-seperated) over buses.

I'm tired of residents saying they want a subway when half of them don't even know what they're going to get (ie: 2-3 stops). If these same people actually took 5 mins of their day to research what a subway would look like, we wouldnt be having this endless debate.

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Little premature there aren't you? You seem to forget this is still just a lot of hot air from a lot of blowhards.

yes, hot air for sure BUT, this is the head honcho (or 2nd in command), controller of all the money, so when he speaks, I think it holds some more weight. I think Glen was also implying that it would not matter whether or not City Council likes this, once again because City Council is spending 0 dollars and the one with the money holds the power. Correct me if I am mistaken but I think we (TO) currently have zero input as far as alignments, construction schedule and so on.

Even a one- station extension to STC (like the one station extensions to Kip, Ken & Downsvw)would be seen as a subway 'win'. Without the 54 bus feeding, all intermediate stns on the current line are pretty useless for walk-ins, all except STC. I also do agree with Munro that QP does not care if a line reaches Sheppard or not.

As another commentator stated, I fear this announcement has re-elected Rob Ford.

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yes, hot air for sure BUT, this is the head honcho (or 2nd in command), controller of all the money, so when he speaks, I think it holds some more weight.

Glen Murray is the Provincial Transportation Minister. He is nowhere remotely close to being in charge of money.

And all of a sudden, I am very thankful for that.

Dan

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As another commentator stated, I fear this announcement has re-elected Rob Ford.

You should have heard what he had to say today. He felt he still won even if its only two Subway Stations.

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You should have heard what he had to say today. He felt he still won even if its only two Subway Stations.

Ford would declare victory if the entire RT was abandoned and all RT stations were converted into Subway restaurants.

"See, I delivered on my promise to deliver Subways, Subways, Subways!"

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Ford would declare victory if the entire RT was abandoned and all RT stations were converted into Subway restaurants.

"See, I delivered on my promise to deliver Subways, Subways, Subways!"

And thats exactly how he's going to win. When people hear this enough times, even though its not true, they will believe it. This guy somehow how always turns things into a false win.

http://www.torontosu...ht-victory-ford

If I lived outside the city, I would be laughing.

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And thats exactly how he's going to win. When people hear this enough times, even though its not true, they will believe it. This guy somehow how always turns things into a false win.

The worst part is, his supporters think he is some sort of anti-politician when he is a walking caricature of a politician.

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Should the old cars go to like Vancouver then?u

The old cars are better off going to scrap with their age and the amount of service they've seen.

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$1.4 billion to replace a line in an existing transit corridor? And the folks in Scarborough are supposedly happy about it?! So much for any hint of actual expansion. This whole thing just screams lunacy... :blink:

Rapid transit to Centennial College, forget it! Rapid transit to UTSC, forget it! Rapid transit along Kingston Rd, forget it! How about building a line to somewhere that could actually use one?! Scarborough should be proud that they are wasting $1.4 billion to MAINTAIN the status quo for rapid transit corridors. Glad I haven't lived out there since early 2000.

If an existing plan, design, and EA were used for the LRT plan, and the province planned a 2019-2021 completion time frame, I wonder what the province will set the completion year of a subway to? 2025-2029 perhaps?

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This whole thing just screams lunacy... :blink:

That's an understatement. It's been six years now:

  • David Miller announced Transit City, which revitalized and extended the RT to Sheppard.

     

  • Ford was elected, Transit City was declared dead.

     

  • Council overruled Ford to resume work on the RT.

     

  • Metrolinx and the City signed an agreement that gave Scarborough an LRT to Sheppard, fully funded by the province.

     

  • The City passes a motion for a subway along a completely different route, without the required additional funding.

     

  • Metrolinx tells the City they are stopping work on Scarborough, and might even walk away.

     

  • The provincial government now says it will build a subway, albeit part of the way with fewer stops.

     

Agreements now need to be drafted, and everyone needs to get on board with a modified plan. There's no indication of that happening yet. And as 6688 indicated, there's no indication of a completion date, but I think we can agree it is going to be beyond the originally planned opening date for the LRT.

All of this happened because it was used as a silly political football. I'd invite comment from older board members, but I imagine this is similar to how Sheppard went down. The only way we will move past this is to get the Metrolinx Investment Strategy passed, give Metrolinx the control over the money, and leave transit planning to transit professionals.

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Glen Murray is the Provincial Transportation Minister. He is nowhere remotely close to being in charge of money.

And all of a sudden, I am very thankful for that.

Dan

I don't understand Dan?

Who would be 'the-guy" in charge of the money if not Murray?

Obviously everything Murray says is completely OK'd by Wynn + finance minister Sousa etc or Murray would not be allowed out there spouting this stuff at big provincial pressers, so if it is not Wynn, Sousa or Murray,

who is calling the money shots at QP? Who controls the dough?

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I don't understand Dan?

Who would be 'the-guy" in charge of the money if not Murray?

Obviously everything Murray says is completely OK'd by Wynn + finance minister Sousa etc or Murray would not be allowed out there spouting this stuff at big provincial pressers, so if it is not Wynn, Sousa or Murray,

who is calling the money shots at QP? Who controls the dough?

Wynne, followed by Sousa, and followed then by the Treasury board - of which Murray is not a member.

As well, Murray seems to have quickly picked up a repuation for speaking "off the cuff" without actually knowing what the party's position is on the topic, or even what is the most logical direction for the Government to take.

Dan

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Wynne, followed by Sousa, and followed then by the Treasury board - of which Murray is not a member.

As well, Murray seems to have quickly picked up a repuation for speaking "off the cuff" without actually knowing what the party's position is on the topic, or even what is the most logical direction for the Government to take.

Dan

thats what I thought Dan

I can't believe that Wynne would let Murray make such a major announcement without her blessing.

Sousa will do whatever Wynne wants

At least Harper muzzles his ministers...how is Murray allowed to make up his own game plan then? Why does Wynne allow herself to be embarassed like this if she is not on board?

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how is Murray allowed to make up his own game plan then?

It depends on what the big game plan is. If it is to get the city to sit down and finally stick with something, and to finally realize that you don't get much when you demand that other people pay for what you want, then Murray is doing his part rather well.

Then again, it's just as likely that Murray is incompetent.

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It depends on what the big game plan is.

The game plan is self-serving partision politics on both sides. If you thought that was exclusive to the US you were wrong. The Liberals want you to forget all the scandels and Rob Ford has his single issue re-election platform, next year is an election year, is it not. Meanwhile, girdlock gets worse and worse. If you remember Metrolinks was formed by municipal and provincial elected officials to form educated plans for transportation is the GTA.

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The game plan is self-serving partision politics on both sides. If you thought that was exclusive to the US you were wrong. The Liberals want you to forget all the scandels and Rob Ford has his single issue re-election platform, next year is an election year, is it not. Meanwhile, girdlock gets worse and worse. If you remember Metrolinks was formed by municipal and provincial elected officials to form educated plans for transportation is the GTA.

Yup but of course it's used as a political tool and instead of telling us what we need they simply act as a meaningless bureaucracy that wastes money that could simply have been directly doled out to the individual transit agencies or cities/regions.

Metrolinx was created to prevent exactly what has occurred, keep the politics and the politicians out of the mix so that the most worthy projects are constructed not the most politically sensitive.

Ask yourself why we are building a subway to Vaughan when we desperately need a DRL?

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Yup but of course it's used as a political tool and instead of telling us what we need they simply act as a meaningless bureaucracy that wastes money that could simply have been directly doled out to the individual transit agencies or cities/regions.

Metrolinx was created to prevent exactly what has occurred, keep the politics and the politicians out of the mix so that the most worthy projects are constructed not the most politically sensitive.

Ask yourself why we are building a subway to Vaughan when we desperately need a DRL?

So the paesan in Wood-a-bridge-a can get to the parade in Little Italy when they win the cup next. ;)

As long as there's the City of Toronto, Metrolinx, and the various levels of guvvyment involved, it'll probably stay a big political tug-of-war (or political **** measuring contest, as someone would say). From one angle it looks like Scarborough may have gotten their subway from one of 'em, but it's certain they got much less than they bargined for :D.

I'm surprised RoFo isn't foaming at the mouth at how much of an insult this is to (the voters in) Scarborough, and how more money should be spend to get the fine (voting) citizens of Scarborough a better subway line.

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RoFo isn't clever enough to realize this subway is a backwards step.

I'm convinced he actually believes his own bullshit.

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