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Possible Subway/RT Extensions


125Drewry
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What subway/RT extension should be built?  

53 members have voted

  1. 1. Which extension do you think should be built?

    • University-Spadina extension to Vaughan
      22
    • Yonge extension to Richmond hill
      37
    • Scarborough RT extension to Markham
      26
    • Bloor-Danforth extension to Sherway Gardens
      19


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Shouldn't it include Durham Region?

We can't think in terms of the 416/905 divide anymore, and we should be taking the effects on neighbouring cities and towns into consideration if we're building a line close to the border.

For sure they should include Durham, but this topic in particular is for the current ones planned going by what the topic's starter posted.

Though now that I think about it, it really isn't a big deal Durham's being discussed in this topic.

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Apparently we almost ended up with the Chicago-style PCC el-cars. When TTC officials went to Chicago to ride the cars, the train they were on skidded through a station on a rainy day... so we got Gloucesters.

Not true at all. The TTC was content with 48' cars, and even put out a tender saying as much. GRC&W responded and said "we suggest 57' cars because they will save on maintenance", and the rest is history.

Dan

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Shouldn't it include Durham Region?

We can't think in terms of the 416/905 divide anymore, and we should be taking the effects on neighbouring cities and towns into consideration if we're building a line close to the border.

LOL, that was a chunk of the argument I was making in that "other certain thread". I agree totally, more regional planning must be taken into account when planning transit lines; not to minimize local planning issues, but both must be pieces of the larger puzzle.

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The thing is though, as commuters that need to be somewhere, we have to weigh our options. Let's use an example of Pickering GO to York Mills. Is the average consumer going to pay 2 fares for this route that would likely take a while, a DRT 2.85 fare plus a TTC 2.75 fare, for a total of 5.60. Now, in contrast, a GO route (94) can take me from Pickering to York Mills for $5.35 in under an hour or about an hour. Most Likely, the commuter will choose that option because A greater comfort in buses B shorter time C cheaper. I'm not saying that your proposal isn't going to be used, the fact is, there is greater competition faced here than say, the McCowan bus, as there is no GO route or alternative running in that area, making that route the only option, hence why it is successful.

As well, as Durham Region is highly undeveloped in some areas, large stretches would pass by without fare paying passengers, resulting in reliability of people in large numbers getting on at major stops to justify the cost ratio.

And even though some may argue that the TTC-DRT option is cheaper for people transferring to the respective systems as by the way of GO, you would be paying GO bus fare and a cash fare on said system, the other disadvantage is that due to the long running time of the route, your transfer would likely be reaching its expiry time by the time it reached the terminal, forcing you to pay another fare regardless.

If I wanted to ride from Pickering to STC yes this plan would be more expensive BUT what if I wanted to travel from Oshawa to STC currently 6.25 or 6.50 so if this plan was to go through Oshawa Riders would save money and as for Pickering I think they should be to be a part of that as well. maybe GO Transit should make Oshawa-Whitby-Ajax and Pickering and anything else south of Winchester 1 zone fare just like YRT does with Bloomington road its 1.00 more to ravel beyond Winchester Road. I also think that DRT should be included in this "Weekly Pass" and any GO buses that connect with DRT 51,52,93,94,95, and 96 And I think any discussions regarding TTC should include cities that border Toronto expecially topics that deal with expansion

I think there should be some sort of LRT/SRT type line serving Steeles Avenue from Mississauga-Pickering and then connecting buses at either end to Oshawa and Clarington and on ther other side to Milton much like the Lakeshore GO line but for Steeles Avenue I don't know I had that thought in my head for some time so I just thought I'd put it out here

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I'm wondering. How come there never appears to be any requests for service into Peel Region? The people in York Region and Durham Region seem to be consistently demanding services be expanded into their jurisdictions (and York is getting it), but I never hear anything from Peel. How come?

I voted for the Bloor extension to Sherway :(.

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I'm wondering. How come there never appears to be any requests for service into Peel Region? The people in York Region and Durham Region seem to be consistently demanding services be expanded into their jurisdictions (and York is getting it), but I never hear anything from Peel. How come?

Peel and York already have great connections. all of my transit trips involve taking a TTC bus or TTC subway to get to Mississauga or York Region I don't have to spend endless amounts of money on GO I love the fact that I could take a Oakville, Mississauga, Brampton and YRT bus in 1 fare. If I wanted to get from Oshawa to Yorkdale I would have to pay 7.35 but If I wanted to get from Oakville to Yorkdale I could probably get away with Paying 2.75 now why is it that Oakville and Oshawa are almost equally distanced from Yorkdale so why is it that Durham gets the short end of the stick I mean Durham Region has over 500 000 people and only 30 000 of them take the bus why is that... its because DRT has bad service but I think its also due to a lack of connections between DRT and TTC I'm sure if DRT had better service but also better connections with TTC and YRT more people would for sure take the bus. 500 000 is a big number Durham has more people the Brampton yet Brampton has exceptional connections with Mississauga and York even Toronto and it doesn't touch (or barley touches) Toronto so whats the story there.

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Peel and York already have great connections. all of my transit trips involve taking a TTC bus or TTC subway to get to Mississauga or York Region I don't have to spend endless amounts of money on GO I love the fact that I could take a Oakville, Mississauga, Brampton and YRT bus in 1 fare. If I wanted to get from Oshawa to Yorkdale I would have to pay 7.35 but If I wanted to get from Oakville to Yorkdale I could probably get away with Paying 2.75 now why is it that Oakville and Oshawa are almost equally distanced from Yorkdale so why is it that Durham gets the short end of the stick I mean Durham Region has over 500 000 people and only 30 000 of them take the bus why is that... its because DRT has bad service but I think its also due to a lack of connections between DRT and TTC I'm sure if DRT had better service but also better connections with TTC and YRT more people would for sure take the bus. 500 000 is a big number Durham has more people the Brampton yet Brampton has exceptional connections with Mississauga and York even Toronto and it doesn't touch (or barley touches) Toronto so whats the story there.

If you think about it, DRT barely touches Toronto.

Again I'll restate this: most of Toronto's eastern border contains Rouge Park, a protected area. There is no development there, and will never be. The only area where Toronto development touches Durham Region is the small area near Rouge Hill GO; there are only two major streets that go through there, that's Kingston Rd/Hwy 2 and Lawrence. Kingston/Hwy 2 is poisoned by the highway beside it; bring it together and you have very very limited options on connectivity. When you go further north to York Region's border, the development has stopped; and there ISN'T any transit for long distances. Impossible to connect.

DRT is at a HUGE disadvantage over the other regions. York Region has like 5 times the border with Toronto, almost all of which is developed and can facilitate transfers.

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If you think about it, DRT barely touches Toronto.

Again I'll restate this: most of Toronto's eastern border contains Rouge Park, a protected area. There is no development there, and will never be. The only area where Toronto development touches Durham Region is the small area near Rouge Hill GO; there are only two major streets that go through there, that's Kingston Rd/Hwy 2 and Lawrence. Kingston/Hwy 2 is poisoned by the highway beside it; bring it together and you have very very limited options on connectivity. When you go further north to York Region's border, the development has stopped; and there ISN'T any transit for long distances. Impossible to connect.

DRT is at a HUGE disadvantage over the other regions. York Region has like 5 times the border with Toronto, almost all of which is developed and can facilitate transfers.

Rouge Park shouldn't stop the block TTC from getting to and from Durham Region and in a few years Taunton Road will be completly developed with stores schools and houses so there will be transit needed there and so a connection would be needed and that would be DRT's responsibility. I'd say by 2012-2013 there will be enough houses stores and schools for some sort of rapid transit. But I think that if Toronto wants to attract public transit commuting then they need to step up to the plate, they should take the first swing at making a commuting "grand slam" no pun intended. There is no back up route to get to Toronto if a GO Train was cancelled or GO was to go on strike can you imagine getting to Toronto without GO Transit we need GO and people take them for granted I actually can't wait for GO to strike because it will be a wake up call for DRT and for TTC

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Rouge Park shouldn't stop the block TTC from getting to and from Durham Region and in a few years Taunton Road will be completly developed with stores schools and houses so there will be transit needed there and so a connection would be needed and that would be DRT's responsibility. I'd say by 2012-2013 there will be enough houses stores and schools for some sort of rapid transit. But I think that if Toronto wants to attract public transit commuting then they need to step up to the plate, they should take the first swing at making a commuting "grand slam" no pun intended.

Why does the TTC have to provide service into Durham, why doesn't DRT provide more service into Scarborough? They could provide service like YRT where they drop off only when coming into Scarborough and pick up only when leaving. They could start by providing more than rush hour service to Rouge Hill GO. DRT could also operate to UofT Scarborough Campus via Kingston Rd and Ellesmere also and connect with the TTC there.

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DRT already has plans to connect with the TTC. They want to do it through their BRT and a route along Taunton. Possible terminals are STC and UTSC. YRT connections are being looked into, but it's in the longrun.

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Why does the TTC have to provide service into Durham, why doesn't DRT provide more service into Scarborough? They could provide service like YRT where they drop off only when coming into Scarborough and pick up only when leaving. They could start by providing more than rush hour service to Rouge Hill GO. DRT could also operate to UofT Scarborough Campus via Kingston Rd and Ellesmere also and connect with the TTC there.

I could ask the same question why does DRT have to do it why can't TTC do it they have a bigger fleet and more money. they have the money and the fleet to have a branch off 54 to go to PIckering every 15 minutes during the rush 30 during midday, evening and Saturday and every 60 on Sunday and Holidays unless DRT was to get a large order of buses(on top of buses that are are being ordered soon) they just don't have the fleet to do so this 54 Branch does not have to be fully accessable. I call this route 54B to Pickering via Hwy 2

DRT already has plans to connect with the TTC. They want to do it through their BRT and a route along Taunton. Possible terminals are STC and UTSC. YRT connections are being looked into, but it's in the longrun.

so the Taunton BRT would have to go all the way down McCown to get to STC and UTSC or are you talking about the Hwy 2 BRT?

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I could ask the same question why does DRT have to do it why can't TTC do it they have a bigger fleet and more money. they have the money and the fleet to have a branch off 54 to go to PIckering every 15 minutes during the rush 30 during midday, evening and Saturday and every 60 on Sunday and Holidays unless DRT was to get a large order of buses(on top of buses that are are being ordered soon) they just don't have the fleet to do so this 54 Branch does not have to be fully accessable. I call this route 54B to Pickering via Hwy 2

Yes, but if the TTC operates into Durham it would probably be made to pick up and drop off both ways which means DRT would have to pay for the service anyways.

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Yes, but if the TTC operates into Durham it would probably be made to pick up and drop off both ways which means DRT would have to pay for the service anyways.

okay I've thought it out a little better and I've come to the conclusion that it only benifits DRT riders so DRT so I'm thinking DRT should do the connections but I don't think STC is the right choice Rouge Hill are good choices. MT has Westwood, Long Branch and Islington to connect with TTC so I think DRT needs 3 aswell which is where the SRT comes in handy the should extend the SRT as far as Morningside and the you have the 901, 901A. 901 goes to Morningside Station, 901A would go to UTSC and 109 would serve Rouge Hill. okay it makes a little sense now.

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okay I've thought it out a little better and I've come to the conclusion that it only benifits DRT riders so DRT so I'm thinking DRT should do the connections but I don't think STC is the right choice Rouge Hill are good choices. MT has Westwood, Long Branch and Islington to connect with TTC so I think DRT needs 3 aswell which is where the SRT comes in handy the should extend the SRT as far as Morningside and the you have the 901, 901A. 901 goes to Morningside Station, 901A would go to UTSC and 109 would serve Rouge Hill. okay it makes a little sense now.

Again, we're not going to extend the RT for the sole purpose of providing a better connection to DRT.

As for your magical '3 connections', we've got Rouge Hill, Meadowvale (Sheppard East LRT) and Malvern Town Centre (Scarborough-Malvern LRT).

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Again, we're not going to extend the RT for the sole purpose of providing a better connection to DRT.

As for your magical '3 connections', we've got Rouge Hill, Meadowvale (Sheppard East LRT) and Malvern Town Centre (Scarborough-Malvern LRT).

You can use UTSC as well. Although this is not a great place for a connection, The Zoo could be used as well. BTW 409 Thornton, The farthest east the SRT will be extended is Markham Road.

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Again, we're not going to extend the RT for the sole purpose of providing a better connection to DRT.

Who is "we" here? The TTC, no, although even they DID show the Sheppard East LRT as being a possible extension into Durham.

Metrolinx, in their regional service planning role, would certainly consider it, and indeed, some of their documents DO indicate a possible future extension of the SRT into Durham. This is not something that I'd expect to see in the RTP (it's not in the white paper test cases, for example), but providing better connections between regions is a big part of what needs to be done to improve transit across the GTA and it will be a focus for them.

Personally, though, I'd rather have Metrolinx's 401 REX proposal implemented than an SRT extension into Durham.

Now, to get back to the short term, DRT is planning on running a Bayly route (probably from Pickering GO Station) to Scarborough College starting next year. The BRT will connect to the TTC at STC, UTSC, or possibly Kennedy Station (! - but from their own documents) when it starts up, likely in 2010. At some point as well, a Taunton route extension would add additional connections.

DRT already has plans to connect with the TTC. They want to do it through their BRT and a route along Taunton. Possible terminals are STC and UTSC. YRT connections are being looked into, but it's in the longrun.

Metrolinx will likely push for the YRT connection at Cornell given that there was funding provided for terminal spaces there. Metrolinx is NOT going to look favourably at DRT not using that space.

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Again, we're not going to extend the RT for the sole purpose of providing a better connection to DRT.

As for your magical '3 connections', we've got Rouge Hill, Meadowvale (Sheppard East LRT) and Malvern Town Centre (Scarborough-Malvern LRT).

It doesn't have to be the sole purpose but it does have to be the one of the main reason for extending it

You can use UTSC as well. Although this is not a great place for a connection, The Zoo could be used as well. BTW 409 Thornton, The farthest east the SRT will be extended is Markham Road.

Okay Markham road is good.

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It doesn't have to be the sole purpose but it does have to be the one of the main reason for extending it
Why would extending RT to Durham be among main reasons for extension? Main reasons would always be to better serve Toronto residents.
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Why would extending RT to Durham be among main reasons for extension? Main reasons would always be to better serve Toronto residents.

Because we are trying to improve connections between regions. That's why we have Metrolinx after all. Trust me when I say that their view will be in favour of serving GTA residents as a whole, not just Toronto residents. This doesn't mean that every line needs to cross a regional border, but lines that are close to borders may well end up being extended across them. Of course, they would have to arrange funding so that Toronto taxpayers are not on the hook.

Having said that, I don't think that they will feel that an SRT extension further eastward from what the TTC is proposing will make any sense - the 401 REX line would serve that purpose better and would provide a connection at STC for those who need it.

You can use UTSC as well. Although this is not a great place for a connection, The Zoo could be used as well. BTW 409 Thornton, The farthest east the SRT will be extended is Markham Road.

Read the EA reports. The SRT is going to Neilson, near the Malvern Town Centre.

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so the Taunton BRT would have to go all the way down McCown to get to STC and UTSC or are you talking about the Hwy 2 BRT?

Just refering to terminals in general, but as DavidH said, documents state STC and UTSC as terminals for the Hwy. 2 BRT.

Who is "we" here? The TTC, no, although even they DID show the Sheppard East LRT as being a possible extension into Durham.

Metrolinx, in their regional service planning role, would certainly consider it, and indeed, some of their documents DO indicate a possible future extension of the SRT into Durham. This is not something that I'd expect to see in the RTP (it's not in the white paper test cases, for example), but providing better connections between regions is a big part of what needs to be done to improve transit across the GTA and it will be a focus for them.

Personally, though, I'd rather have Metrolinx's 401 REX proposal implemented than an SRT extension into Durham.

Now, to get back to the short term, DRT is planning on running a Bayly route (probably from Pickering GO Station) to Scarborough College starting next year. The BRT will connect to the TTC at STC, UTSC, or possibly Kennedy Station (! - but from their own documents) when it starts up, likely in 2010. At some point as well, a Taunton route extension would add additional connections.

Metrolinx will likely push for the YRT connection at Cornell given that there was funding provided for terminal spaces there. Metrolinx is NOT going to look favourably at DRT not using that space.

That's good if they push for it. Last I heard about connecting at Cornell was before Metrolinx, so it would be beneficial if they push for it. I also agree with you and Red Rocket that issues now need to be looked at not just from each system's benefit and perspective, but all.

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The BRT will connect to the TTC at STC, UTSC, or possibly Kennedy Station (! - but from their own documents) when it starts up, likely in 2010.

I think STC or UTSC would make more sense than Kennedy Station. STC especially since there is already the GO terminal that could be used by DRT. UTSC would be okay but I think it would be better if DRT riders could connect directly to the TTCs Subway/RT system, although the Scarborough-Malvern LRT will eventually serve UTSC.

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