Finch West LRT

[nfitz]

1 hour ago, Cityflyer said:

Line 6's should theoretically be less of a headache as they are not first production models and they won't be running them in a trainset of 2 like Ottawa is doing (at least not initially in 2023).

They are coming from a different assembly plant. They are almost the very first vehicle that plant will ever have assembled.

Even less of a headache, could be a huge headache.

[Shaun]

3 hours ago, nfitz said:

They are coming from a different assembly plant. They are almost the very first vehicle that plant will ever have assembled.

Even less of a headache, could be a huge headache.

It also comes down to management of the infrastructure.  The people that managed the build of the Ottawa line did not have the proper qualifications.  

The cross town and Finch LRT use different contractors. Hopefully that will make a difference.

[smallspy]

13 hours ago, Shaun said:

It also comes down to management of the infrastructure.  The people that managed the build of the Ottawa line did not have the proper qualifications. 

You, of all people, are in no position to come to this conclusion.

 

Dan

[Young]

I’ve heard that tracks have been layed down in the Jane and Finch area is that true?

[bus_7246]

17 hours ago, Young said:

I’ve heard that tracks have been layed down in the Jane and Finch area is that true?

The track bed and what looks like the tracks have been laid through the east side of the Jane & Finch intersection. They’re covered with wood every trip I drive through and over them. I can’t tell if the rail is actually in there though

[wil9402]

Tracks and overhead wires are supposed to be installed this spring, if they haven't started already, from the yard to Sentinel. This will be used as the burn in track for the LRVs that are suppose to start arriving in the summer.

[lip]

23 hours ago, Young said:

I’ve heard that tracks have been layed down in the Jane and Finch area is that true?

The rail is installed (similar to the way rail was installed on the Crosstown line). The rail is installed at the intersection (and it is raised), but it's not connected to the main line yet.

[Kobayashi]

And so ladies and gentlemen: the first Alstom cars just arrived earlier than expected, originally to come in 2022.

https://dailyhive.com/toronto/first-look-finch-west-lrt-trains-photo
 

[Cityflyer]

More pics posted here.

See the first light rail vehicle arrive at Finch West Maintenance and Storage Facility | Metrolinx News

[bus_7246]

As I had suspected early in the completion of the guideway at the intersection of Jane & Finch, there are no rails in the guideway at the intersection. As I was driving through the menacingly chaotic intersection recently, I looked through a small uncovered spots of where the rail should be. It actually was an empty trough for the rail that hadn’t yet been installed through the intersection.

There must be a new issue because the guideway is being covered with steel plates through the intersection of Jane & Finch

The construction of these guideway are being built completely different than that of the crosstown lrt. They are building the guideway to visually resemble that of streetcar tracks. But they will use what I believe is the rubber that surrounds the rail (similar to what you might see at railway crossings). No ties or spikes (or whatever the proper term may be) compared to what it’s installed in the MSF

[M. Parsons]

1 hour ago, bus_7246 said:

The construction of these guideway are being built completely different than that of the crosstown lrt. They are building the guideway to visually resemble that of streetcar tracks. But they will use what I believe is the rubber that surrounds the rail (similar to what you might see at railway crossings). No ties or spikes (or whatever the proper term may be) compared to what it’s installed in the MSF

That sounds like what has been used on embedded sections of Edmonton's SE Valley Line LRT.

[smallspy]

11 hours ago, bus_7246 said:

As I had suspected early in the completion of the guideway at the intersection of Jane & Finch, there are no rails in the guideway at the intersection. As I was driving through the menacingly chaotic intersection recently, I looked through a small uncovered spots of where the rail should be. It actually was an empty trough for the rail that hadn’t yet been installed through the intersection.

There must be a new issue because the guideway is being covered with steel plates through the intersection of Jane & Finch

The construction of these guideway are being built completely different than that of the crosstown lrt. They are building the guideway to visually resemble that of streetcar tracks. But they will use what I believe is the rubber that surrounds the rail (similar to what you might see at railway crossings). No ties or spikes (or whatever the proper term may be) compared to what it’s installed in the MSF

It's not an "issue" as you think it might be - the concrete "roadbed" is being built in such a way as to make future rail replacements much easier and faster. But to do this, the concrete must be cured prior to the rail anchors being installed. One the rail has been placed and the clips installed, a rubber cap will then be installed overtop of the gaps on either side of the rail, leaving just the head exposed.

 

This method is a bit different from the methodology being used on Eglinton, but not unprecedented in Toronto. This exact same technique was used when Humber Loop was rebuilt 10 years ago, perhaps as a test installation to see how it might do with heavy vehicles.

 

They are also using a rubber surround encapsulating the rail on Eglinton, but it is much thinner, and there solely to protect and isolate the rail from the concrete. This is the same as is done on the legacy network downtown.

 

Dan

[Shaun]

It says that "2,300 Citadis vehicles have been sold to 55 cities worldwide, known for their abilities to manage the harsh summer and winter extremes typical of Toronto. The LRVs have a seated capacity of 120 and a maximum capacity of 292 passengers. Metrolinx’s Hurontario LRT project under construction in Mississauga will be using the same vehicles.". 

 

Where they known for that before they were deployed in Ottawa and required space heaters in the cab?

[GTAmissions1]

1 minute ago, Shaun said:

It says that "2,300 Citadis vehicles have been sold to 55 cities worldwide, known for their abilities to manage the harsh summer and winter extremes typical of Toronto. The LRVs have a seated capacity of 120 and a maximum capacity of 292 passengers. Metrolinx’s Hurontario LRT project under construction in Mississauga will be using the same vehicles.". 

 

Where they known for that before they were deployed in Ottawa and required space heaters in the cab?

The Alstom Citadis product line is mostly used in Europe, but also used in some other cities outside of Europe. The one that Ottawa uses was the first city in North America to use this new rail vehicle which is the Citadis Spirit. Citadis Spirit is based on the Citadis Dualis.

Of course being very new, they didn't really account for the different kind of climate that operates in North America or the other challenges. Having to build a supply chain and production in making the new rail vehicles in North America to deliver the order. With the technical issues that Ottawa has with the trains that have to be worked out especially having a 30 year lifecycle and ordering a lot more for extensions. Plus Metrolinx's order for the trains if Bombardier failed to deliver. 

[Mike]

22 minutes ago, Shaun said:

It says that "2,300 Citadis vehicles have been sold to 55 cities worldwide, known for their abilities to manage the harsh summer and winter extremes typical of Toronto. The LRVs have a seated capacity of 120 and a maximum capacity of 292 passengers. Metrolinx’s Hurontario LRT project under construction in Mississauga will be using the same vehicles.". 

 

Where they known for that before they were deployed in Ottawa and required space heaters in the cab?

Looking at the list of clients for the Citadis trams, there are many that have very hot summers, but only St. Petersburg, Russia and Ottawa have winters comparable to Toronto.

It is 100% that they must have heat in the cabs of the Russian ones.

[Cityflyer]

Second Light Rail Vehicle delivered to Finch West Maintenance and Storage Facility | Metrolinx News

Member "nfitz" pointed out in another thread that this 2nd unit is numbered in the 6500 series. Upon closer inspection, it's 6502 which begs the question, what happened to 6501 assuming the first unit was 6500?
This leaves alot of numbers for the Flexity Freedoms after the first batch of 76 units up to 6499. Their 2nd batch order should be for the year 2030 when Line 5 phase 2 opens.
The Citadis Spirits will probably never go over the 65xx range considering they will only be use on TTC Line 6 (1st batch only has 17 units) which means the T1 replacements could start at 6600+.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Cityflyer

[Bus_Medic]

You guys put wayy too much focus into the consecutive delivery of cars.

[MRD10]

I thought these units were gonna be numbered from 1000, like the current fleet of OG HEV's uses?

[Cityflyer]

Metrolinx posted an update on the 2 vehicles. They still haven't numbered the 1st unit that arrived.

[Cityflyer]

Watch the first ever Finch West LRT vehicle test run in new video – Metrolinx News

Surprised they plan to couple them together for testing. Line 6 will initially operate with 1 car train anyways.

Coupling them together makes as long as the O Train Line 1.

[T3G]

20 minutes ago, Cityflyer said:

Surprised they plan to couple them together for testing. Line 6 will initially operate with 1 car train anyways.

Testing of new vehicles entails testing them under all conditions, including ones that won't yet be encountered in service.

The alternative is in 15 years when the line requires MU cars running they will find out the cars don't play nice together and their quick fix for more capacity has gone down the drain.

[smallspy]

6 hours ago, T3G said:

Testing of new vehicles entails testing them under all conditions, including ones that won't yet be encountered in service.

The alternative is in 15 years when the line requires MU cars running they will find out the cars don't play nice together and their quick fix for more capacity has gone down the drain.

The testing of the cars while coupled has nothing to do with them being in service.

 

If a car gets disabled, how do you think they are going to get it back to the yard?

 

Dan

[T3G]

3 hours ago, smallspy said:

The testing of the cars while coupled has nothing to do with them being in service.

 

If a car gets disabled, how do you think they are going to get it back to the yard?

 

Dan

I assumed that a disabled car would be coupled mechanically only, while testing while being coupled up would involve full electrical connections too.

[smallspy]

13 hours ago, T3G said:

I assumed that a disabled car would be coupled mechanically only,

Sure. And you wouldn't test for that prior to service starting?

 

13 hours ago, T3G said:

while testing while being coupled up would involve full electrical connections too.

That's a hell of a stretch to come to this conclusion.

 

They have to test for both of those scenarios - as well as others - to ensure that everything works as its supposed to, and also to be able to write the training manuals to teach the operating staff how to do it. Just because they aren't planning on operating with the cars MU'd in service doesn't mean that they don't have to account for it.

 

You don't just "hope for the best" after service opens and then rely on the scant information provided by the manufacturer when shit actually does happen. That's how we get into an Ottawa situation.

 

Dan

[Wayside Observer]

On 2/24/2022 at 9:01 AM, smallspy said:

Sure. And you wouldn't test for that prior to service starting?

 

That's a hell of a stretch to come to this conclusion.

 

They have to test for both of those scenarios - as well as others - to ensure that everything works as its supposed to, and also to be able to write the training manuals to teach the operating staff how to do it. Just because they aren't planning on operating with the cars MU'd in service doesn't mean that they don't have to account for it.You don't just "hope for the best" after service opens and then rely on the scant information provided by the manufacturer when shit actually does happen. That's how we get into an Ottawa situation.

There’s also warranty implications.  You want to be certain everything works correctly during the warranty period while you can claim on it vs. finding out later and having to eat the costs of repairs/modifications that would’ve been covered by the manufacturer if discovered earlier.

Anyways, I had a bit of a look at the Eglinton and Finch power distribution while I was dropping guys off after football practice.  They’re definitely expecting to run less service on Finch compared to Eglinton.  There’s about 1/3 less conductor cross section strung up above Finch compared to Eglinton with the associated reduction in ampacity and what that implies for the number of cars or trains that can be run close together so they’re clearly not planning around running Eglinton levels of service in the near future.