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Eglinton Crosstown line


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On 4/5/2022 at 9:50 AM, nfitz said:

Because it's in Doug Ford's riding.

I mean Toronto has a nasty habit of doing that long before Doug Ford. Take York Mills station and the extention from Warden to Kennedy as prime examples. There's definitely NIMBY inference in all of them but still, we bury too many of our rapid transit lines when in many cases we don't have to. 

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On 4/11/2022 at 9:51 PM, GTAmissions1 said:

Right now, the Scarborough Subway Extension is the priority since they have been working on a plan regarding how to provide the bus replacement service. Especially with 57 to 67 buses required to provide the parallel service until the extension goes into service. Lasting several years once the Scarborough RT is decommissioned in Fall 2023. 

The red bus lanes are a temporary measure until the Eglinton Crosstown East extension gets funding and goes to tender to a successful bidder. Right now, they haven't put that contract out yet where as the western extension was issued to a contractor having to provide their cost breakdowns along with partners and planning. Planning such as cost estimates, resources and schedules. 

How probable is the conversion of the SRT corridor being converted into a BRT line?

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1 hour ago, lifty4ever said:

How probable is the conversion of the SRT corridor being converted into a BRT line?

It is possible minimizing the amount of traffic buses have to deal with the adjacent roads. The trade-off is that it won't be available for at least two to three years since the old rail infrastructure has to be removed and the right of way expanded to accommodate buses along with stations. Similar to the Transitway in Ottawa. This is the most recommended option by TTC staff.

Operating on adjacent roads is easier, but would also require more buses to operate because of mixed traffic especially during peak periods even with limited stops. 

The decision comes later today on how to provide the bus replacement service for Scarborough RT until the subway extension opens. 

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23 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

It is possible minimizing the amount of traffic buses have to deal with the adjacent roads. The trade-off is that it won't be available for at least two to three years since the old rail infrastructure has to be removed and the right of way expanded to accommodate buses along with stations. Similar to the Transitway in Ottawa. This is the most recommended option by TTC staff.

Operating on adjacent roads is easier, but would also require more buses to operate because of mixed traffic especially during peak periods even with limited stops. 

The decision comes later today on how to provide the bus replacement service for Scarborough RT until the subway extension opens. 

The trade off is the only thing i see hindering this idea being a slam dunk decision but i don't think anyone would disagree with the BRT conversion even if it took a couple years to construct and its not it couldn't be further converted for other purposes post line 2 extension completion. 

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On 4/14/2022 at 1:39 AM, lifty4ever said:

How probable is the conversion of the SRT corridor being converted into a BRT line?

From Ellesmere to Kennedy is now approved, and they just have to sort out funding with Metrolinx. Using the existing stations at Lawrence East and Ellesmere, and adding one at Tara/Mooregate about half-way between Kennedy and Lawrence.

I wonder if they'll continue to use it after 2030 - and where service would go then. I don't know the ridership along Kennedy enough to know whether it may be a good idea to be part of a 943 Kennedy service - similar to how the 939 Finch still uses a piece of that BRT that used to run from Sheppard West to York University.

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8 hours ago, nfitz said:

From Ellesmere to Kennedy is now approved, and they just have to sort out funding with Metrolinx. Using the existing stations at Lawrence East and Ellesmere, and adding one at Tara/Mooregate about half-way between Kennedy and Lawrence.

I wonder if they'll continue to use it after 2030 - and where service would go then. I don't know the ridership along Kennedy enough to know whether it may be a good idea to be part of a 943 Kennedy service - similar to how the 939 Finch still uses a piece of that BRT that used to run from Sheppard West to York University.

They did mention that in the board meeting it could be used past 2030 for Kennedy express or something. So they do think of keeping it.

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14 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

They did mention that in the board meeting it could be used past 2030 for Kennedy express or something. So they do think of keeping it.

Ah - I should go listen to that!

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14 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

They did mention that in the board meeting it could be used past 2030 for Kennedy express or something. So they do think of keeping it.

That would be smart, and for future shuttle bus use when the subway is down for whatever reason.

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45 minutes ago, MK78 said:

That would be smart, and for future shuttle bus use when the subway is down for whatever reason.

Express shuttle, yes. It'll be a problem as people get used to the new Lawrence East station location and a shuttle using this corridor won't go remotely near there.

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

Ah - I should go listen to that!

There were people asking for a bike lane beside the busway, which is not part of the initial project. The project is currently receiving zero funding from Queen's Park is also a problem.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not sure if this should go here and/or in the general News thread, but:

Toronto Star: How often should the Eglinton LRT run? TTC, Metrolinx disagree

Non-paywall version

Metrolinx wants to run higher frequency service (as often as every 3 minutes, 10 seconds), while the TTC who will be operating the service, in light of reduced ridership from the pandemic wants to initially run it at 5 minutes all day increasing along with ridership.  Given the delays, I can see Metrolinx trying to get the optimal service from the start.  The TTC on the other hand is in a funding crunch due to the reduced ridership.  This will be the first joint project in the GTA and people are closely watching how the partnership will play out for the rest of the projects.

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On 4/26/2022 at 4:46 PM, Gil said:

Not sure if this should go here and/or in the general News thread, but:

Toronto Star: How often should the Eglinton LRT run? TTC, Metrolinx disagree

Non-paywall version

Metrolinx wants to run higher frequency service (as often as every 3 minutes, 10 seconds), while the TTC who will be operating the service, in light of reduced ridership from the pandemic wants to initially run it at 5 minutes all day increasing along with ridership.  Given the delays, I can see Metrolinx trying to get the optimal service from the start.  The TTC on the other hand is in a funding crunch due to the reduced ridership.  This will be the first joint project in the GTA and people are closely watching how the partnership will play out for the rest of the projects.

I've heard the Eglinton line will start out running two car trains but is able to run 3 if need be. If they run lower frequency, can they use the 3 car trains as a compromise?

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45 minutes ago, lifty4ever said:

I've heard the Eglinton line will start out running two car trains but is able to run 3 if need be. If they run lower frequency, can they use the 3 car trains as a compromise?

They certainly could. However, based on @smallspy's analysis from another thread, I don't think the issue is on ridership and capacity; instead, lengthening trains may actually exacerbate the issues mentioned in the dispute (TTC would have fewer of its employees working on the extension with trains being more infrequent, while they'd be paying more in maintenance costs as more trains would be required); all the time the public ends up with inferior service.

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The 2022 ASP has listed Line 5 to operate with 18 trains (2 cars consists) meaning 36 LRVs which is not even half the fleet. Half the fleet becomes spares and would never to utilized regularly for the next decade making 1/3rd of their life wasted. TTC plans to ramp to to 21 trains by 2026 (42 LRVs).

By operating at 3'10" instead of 5', That's an increase of 58% bringing the total LRV needed to 56-58 LRVs. This brings the spare ratio to 30% instead of 111%. This is till high for operations as they could ramp up to 63 LRVs to bring it down to 20%. If they were to maintain this level of operation, they'll need atleast 20 more LRVs for Eglinton West extension.

I believe the TTC/ML agreement expires in 10 years, so if ML is really unhappy with the TTC, they can privatize Line 5 operations. By then, Queen's Park can attempt another subway takeover if they disagree with financial matters.

On the bring side, fansighting all the LRVs would be easier if ML gets their ways. 

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12 hours ago, Cityflyer said:

If they keep this low frequency, they don't need to order anymore LRVs after the west extension opens. lol

That's assuming they don't also come up with a eastern extension which considering the northern extension of line 2 honestly isn't out of the realm of possibility. But it remains to be seen just what they eventually decide on. As long as service in the east end isn't too slow, it should be fine. Hopefully there aren't too many drivers who get lost though incidents with motorists ending up on the tracks has already happened

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11 hours ago, lifty4ever said:

Hopefully there aren't too many drivers who get lost though incidents with motorists ending up on the tracks has already happened

I haven't heard of a single incident of a driver ending up on the tracks on Eglinton yet - and certainly, there's been nothing in the papers, which seems peculiar considering how quick they generally are to report on these kinds of things. How many have there been?

 

Dan

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44 minutes ago, smallspy said:

I haven't heard of a single incident of a driver ending up on the tracks on Eglinton yet - and certainly, there's been nothing in the papers, which seems peculiar considering how quick they generally are to report on these kinds of things. How many have there been?

 

Dan

It happened once a couple years ago, there was a news article on it too

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2 hours ago, smallspy said:

I haven't heard of a single incident of a driver ending up on the tracks on Eglinton yet - and certainly, there's been nothing in the papers, which seems peculiar considering how quick they generally are to report on these kinds of things. How many have there been?

 

Dan

I've spotted a number of close calls (ie. drivers who make it onto the track and are able to back-up, and drivers who realize at the last second and swerve dangerously to avoid), namely at both north & south DVP off-ramp intersections, and the intersection at Leslie St.  The DVP occurrences are of drivers trying to make the light and making too tight of a left turn.

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9 hours ago, lip said:

Yup it already happened, there's an idiot born every day:

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/car-gets-stuck-on-crosstown-lrt-tracks

Cool, so there's one.

 

In the three years that there's been track on the surface alignment so far.

 

This doesn't strike me as something that is worth fretting over that much, at least not as yet.

 

Dan

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9 hours ago, MK78 said:

I wonder if they are planning to install automatic gates like at Queens Quay tunnel.

You mean like the ones that are currently broken, and have been broken for at least a year? Where would they install the gates, at every intersection, or just the portals?

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Most notably the portals.  But putting them on every intersection costs a lot of money and requires retiming of the traffic lights , though it discourages illegal entries when the gates are down.  The latter worked wonders in other cities with LRT running at-grade.

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19 hours ago, 38 Highland Creek said:

Most notably the portals.  But putting them on every intersection costs a lot of money and requires retiming of the traffic lights , though it discourages illegal entries when the gates are down.  The latter worked wonders in other cities with LRT running at-grade.

Um, my post was sarcasm. People who delay public transit, however they decide they want to, should have to pay a fine appropriate to the cost they impose on others. Stand in front of a bus to block it, just because they are upset they didn't get on ... there has to be some mathematical formula they could come up with to determine the actual cost to society because of their selfish actions. ... Jay walk in front of a moving streetcar, well eff you, darwin has an award he wants to give you. Take a leak at track level on the subway? Ooh, unauthorized at track level and cause a delay on a system that moves hundreds of thousands of people an hour just because you feel it's appropriate to urinate anywhere you want.

 

People have to get to work, job interviews, to pick up their kids at daycare, ... How is that entitled brat who can''t read a no entry sign more important than somebody else who is struggling and making the effort and has someplace to be in a certain amount of time, but can't get there because of the entitled idiot who picks some lame excuse why they aren't at fault for being a selfish narcissist?

 

But yeah, public transit is great, except for everybody who thinks they are more important than anybody else. I'm tired of this stuff

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1 hour ago, Turtle said:

Um, my post was sarcasm. People who delay public transit, however they decide they want to, should have to pay a fine appropriate to the cost they impose on others. Stand in front of a bus to block it, just because they are upset they didn't get on ... there has to be some mathematical formula they could come up with to determine the actual cost to society because of their selfish actions. ... Jay walk in front of a moving streetcar, well eff you, darwin has an award he wants to give you. Take a leak at track level on the subway? Ooh, unauthorized at track level and cause a delay on a system that moves hundreds of thousands of people an hour just because you feel it's appropriate to urinate anywhere you want.

 

People have to get to work, job interviews, to pick up their kids at daycare, ... How is that entitled brat who can''t read a no entry sign more important than somebody else who is struggling and making the effort and has someplace to be in a certain amount of time, but can't get there because of the entitled idiot who picks some lame excuse why they aren't at fault for being a selfish narcissist?

 

But yeah, public transit is great, except for everybody who thinks they are more important than anybody else. I'm tired of this stuff

Sarcasm is sadly a foreign language to many on here.

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